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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese

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S

Shotgun Kiss

Member
I don't have any books or anything; just what I linked to before. However, I'm hearing from some other people who will be taking the same course that those should be enough. Just so long as I can memorise the order of both hiragana and katakana alphabets, and draw the characters, I should be fine. Apparently I don't need to worry about brush strokes just yet (I thought I did).

Starting tomorrow (it's late here now), I'm just going to copy the alphabets over and over until I'm familiar with them, and then mix them up by using flashcards and the like.
 
A

angelfly

Member
Ben2749 said:
I don't have any books or anything; just what I linked to before. However, I'm hearing from some other people who will be taking the same course that those should be enough. Just so long as I can memorise the order of both hiragana and katakana alphabets, and draw the characters, I should be fine. Apparently I don't need to worry about brush strokes just yet (I thought I did).

Starting tomorrow (it's late here now), I'm just going to copy the alphabets over and over until I'm familiar with them, and then mix them up by using flashcards and the like.
Click to expand...

I'd say you should get in the habit of using proper stroke order early on. Besides being able to write them properly memorizing order also serves to help you memorize how to write them (applies to kanji as well).
 
T

TheFatOne

Member
A couple of questions. Is going really slow bad? Because right now I am on frame 400 something and I only add a few cards a day. I have just been busy the last couple of months so I had to cut back my study time, but I do keep up with my reviews. All the kanji I have learned so far I haven't forgotten.

Also this doesn't necessarily have to do with learning Japanese, but I wanted to ask anyway. I am planing a trip to Japan with 2 of my buddies. We wanted to go for 2 weeks. Can anyone give me an estimate on how much it will cost. I just want to know how much I should save for the trip. We won't be going till the end of next year or in spring 2011. Doesn't have to be accurate just a ball park figure.

Edit: We want to go to Tokyo game show in 2010.
 
M

Mik2121

Member
Two weeks? Depending on what you guys wanna do, but I'd say food for each day would be from 1000 to 2500 JPY considering you'll be eating outside always.

Other than that, guessing you'll be taking subway on a daily basis, at least two times (let's say 4, because some days you might take more trains, etc..), that would be an average of 250 JPY per trip, or 1000 JPY overall, plus the 2500 tops on food, about 3500 JPY on the days you spend the most on basic stuff. So maybe around 3000 JPY on average, multiply that by 14 days, 42000 JPY. But if you don't take that many trains and keep eating at very cheap places (CoCo-ichi for curry, Mcdonalds and similar fast food restaurants, small ramen restaurants, etc..), you could spend about half of that price. Add in the money you'll also need for your electronic shopping and other stuff, etc..


1 USD (US Dollar) = 91 JPY (Japanese Yen)

42000 JPY = 460 USD

Just so you get an idea. But if you get outside of Tokyo, you'll spend much more on trains as well.





Ben2749, learning katakana and hiragana is pretty easy, and you should learn the correct stroke order as soon as possible. It will help you tons when writing, and you can use it to actually memorize the kanjis more easily.
 
T

TheFatOne

Member
Mik2121 said:
Two weeks? Depending on what you guys wanna do, but I'd say food for each day would be from 1000 to 2500 JPY considering you'll be eating outside always.

Other than that, guessing you'll be taking subway on a daily basis, at least two times (let's say 4, because some days you might take more trains, etc..), that would be an average of 250 JPY per trip, or 1000 JPY overall, plus the 2500 tops on food, about 3500 JPY on the days you spend the most on basic stuff. So maybe around 3000 JPY on average, multiply that by 14 days, 42000 JPY. But if you don't take that many trains and keep eating at very cheap places (CoCo-ichi for curry, Mcdonalds and similar fast food restaurants, small ramen restaurants, etc..), you could spend about half of that price. Add in the money you'll also need for your electronic shopping and other stuff, etc..


1 USD (US Dollar) = 91 JPY (Japanese Yen)

42000 JPY = 460 USD

Just so you get an idea. But if you get outside of Tokyo, you'll spend much more on trains as well.





Ben2749, learning katakana and hiragana is pretty easy, and you should learn the correct stroke order as soon as possible. It will help you tons when writing, and you can use it to actually memorize the kanjis more easily.
Click to expand...

Yea just trying to get a ballpark figure as to how much everything will cost. I have plenty of time to save for the trip. Just wanted to know a figure so that I can put it down as a goal.
 
S

sasimirobot

Junior Member
Mik2121 said:
Two weeks? Depending on what you guys wanna do, but I'd say food for each day would be from 1000 to 2500 JPY considering you'll be eating outside always.

Other than that, guessing you'll be taking subway on a daily basis, at least two times (let's say 4, because some days you might take more trains, etc..), that would be an average of 250 JPY per trip, or 1000 JPY overall, plus the 2500 tops on food, about 3500 JPY on the days you spend the most on basic stuff. So maybe around 3000 JPY on average, multiply that by 14 days, 42000 JPY. But if you don't take that many trains and keep eating at very cheap places (CoCo-ichi for curry, Mcdonalds and similar fast food restaurants, small ramen restaurants, etc..), you could spend about half of that price. Add in the money you'll also need for your electronic shopping and other stuff, etc..


1 USD (US Dollar) = 91 JPY (Japanese Yen)

42000 JPY = 460 USD

Just so you get an idea. But if you get outside of Tokyo, you'll spend much more on trains as well.





Ben2749, learning katakana and hiragana is pretty easy, and you should learn the correct stroke order as soon as possible. It will help you tons when writing, and you can use it to actually memorize the kanjis more easily.
Click to expand...

I was, back in the day, gonna write a book on how to survive in Japan for 30$/day. that was 10 years ago. I cant imagine spending less than 100$US/day in Japan now. That doesn`t include hotel or shopping. Maybe I am reading this post wrong but...yeah. 100 bucks gets you shit but a train ride for a day in Tokyo now

ok. after talking it over with a local. 5000Y min. 7-11 or matuya for breakfast/lunch/dinner, some walking, no shopping, yamanote line only, maybe one beer. your day in Tokyo would be over...
 
M

May16

Member
How would I ask for an international money order at the Japanese post office?
I need to send someone cash back in America, but wiring is apparently not an option and neither is PayPal to this person. I don't physically have any personal checks out here from my US account, so I need to send a money order.

How do I ask for one? I have a feeling the literal translation of "money order" (Okane no chuumon?) is far from correct...

Edit: Nevermind, found it. "Kokushi kawase shosho."
 
M

Mik2121

Member
sasimirobot said:
I was, back in the day, gonna write a book on how to survive in Japan for 30$/day. that was 10 years ago. I cant imagine spending less than 100$US/day in Japan now. That doesn`t include hotel or shopping. Maybe I am reading this post wrong but...yeah. 100 bucks gets you shit but a train ride for a day in Tokyo now

ok. after talking it over with a local. 5000Y min. 7-11 or matuya for breakfast/lunch/dinner, some walking, no shopping, yamanote line only, maybe one beer. your day in Tokyo would be over...
Click to expand...

Well, of course I didn't include any sort of shopping nor the hotel, and wtf with 5000 JPY you have more than enough for breakfast lunch and dinner at normal restaurants. Seems like that "local" you know doesn't know where to go, or he likes to spend more than your average person. I never go to Matsuya nor any restaurant like that, and I can eat pretty well in much better places for 1000 per lunch. Maybe I went too low with 2500 per day, but about 4000 would be enough imo. So maybe 6000JPY on average should be enough for the whole day.

And as I said before, I live in Osaka so maybe everything is slightly cheaper than there, but the last time I went to Tokyo (last Christmas, when I went to Disney Sea) I didn't spend more than what I said every day, not including the day I went to Disney Sea itself. And I went with my gf to quite a few places around the city, taking the subway all the time and eating on nice restaurants (not luxury nice, obviously).
 
T

TheFatOne

Member
Mik2121 said:
Well, of course I didn't include any sort of shopping nor the hotel, and wtf with 5000 JPY you have more than enough for breakfast lunch and dinner at normal restaurants. Seems like that "local" you know doesn't know where to go, or he likes to spend more than your average person. I never go to Matsuya nor any restaurant like that, and I can eat pretty well in much better places for 1000 per lunch. Maybe I went too low with 2500 per day, but about 4000 would be enough imo. So maybe 6000JPY on average should be enough for the whole day.

And as I said before, I live in Osaka so maybe everything is slightly cheaper than there, but the last time I went to Tokyo (last Christmas, when I went to Disney Sea) I didn't spend more than what I said every day, not including the day I went to Disney Sea itself. And I went with my gf to quite a few places around the city, taking the subway all the time and eating on nice restaurants (not luxury nice, obviously).
Click to expand...

Just wanted to say thank you for the help. I am going to budget 5000-6000 yen per day for food. I already have a good idea on how much hotels, flight, and transportation will cost. Instead of going to next years Tokyo game show I am just going to go in November . Sorry for derailing the thread. Once again thank you for the help.
 
D

Desiato

Member
Okay, I have a question.

What's the Japanese translation for "day labor"? I know labor is 労働, but I can't find a translation anywhere for day labor. Could it be as simple as　日労働? I really need to know this as soon as possible. Please help, J-GAF!
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
日雇い労働 (ひやとい　ろうどう) is probably the best translation.

If you are talking specifically about a day labor job you can say 日雇い仕事 (ひやとい　しごと)or just plain 日雇い.
 
D

Desiato

Member
Zefah said:
日雇い労働 (ひやとい　ろうどう) is probably the best translation.

If you are talking specifically about a day labor job you can say 日雇い仕事 (ひやとい　しごと)or just plain 日雇い.
Click to expand...
Much appreciated!
 
Link1110

Link1110

Member
Had a class tonight. We were doing grammar review and got to ほしい. I understand that we haven't done ほしがっています yet, but is saying 田中さんは本が欲しいです as rude as I've read and we only said it the other way to keep things simple, or is it actually usable?
 
M

Mik2121

Member
Link1110 said:
Had a class tonight. We were doing grammar review and got to ほしい. I understand that we haven't done ほしがっています yet, but is saying 田中さんは本が欲しいです as rude as I've read and we only said it the other way to keep things simple, or is it actually usable?
Click to expand...
It's not rude if you are talking with friends and/or about friends. But if you are talking, for example, to some teacher, about another teacher.. then yeah, you should add that or if you are not sure, just say something like

田中さんは本がほしいっと言いました。

Or whatever you want.

Dunno, out of all the 3 years I've been here, I hare barely ever used ほしがっています. It's not like I NEVER use it, but yeah.. not that frequent either.
 
K

KtSlime

Member
Mikazuki said:
I think women can use it at the end of the sentence to ask a question instead of か、 Don't take my word for it though!
Click to expand...

Kind of, か is a little straight forward and direct, so what is going on is they are nominalizing the entire clause with a の and leaving it to the listener to assume that he/she is looking for an explanation.

so for a simple everyday question: 何をしてるんだか (what is it that you are doing) will probably be asked by a female, or a male that doesn't want to be very blunt as: 何をしてるの, fortunately you can do this with virtually any sentence, which makes it seem like the nominal の is a particle and equivalent to か.
 
M

Mik2121

Member
ivedoneyourmom said:
Kind of, か is a little straight forward and direct, so what is going on is they are nominalizing the entire clause with a の and leaving it to the listener to assume that he/she is looking for an explanation.

so for a simple everyday question: 何をしてるんだか (what is it that you are doing) will probably be asked by a female, or a male that doesn't want to be very blunt as: 何をしてるの, fortunately you can do this with virtually any sentence, which makes it seem like the nominal の is a particle and equivalent to か.
Click to expand...

The bolded sentence is not correct. It should be

何をしてるのですか？

or the bit less formal version:

何をしてるんですか？

or even a bit less:

何してるんですか？

or even a bit less!:

何してるのか？

Which takes us to...

何してるの？

As well as:

何をしてるの？

Or like we would say in the Kansai area:

何やってんの？

And yeah, using の at the end of a question is not only used by females nor anything like that. Anybody uses it, it just depends on the pronunciation and how you use it.
 
C

Cathcart

Member
Thanks for a great thread, it's getting me psyched up as I start the learning process. I finished the Heisig kana book on Sunday and started on the first kanji book today. Got Anki running and synced up with Anki Online so I can review from the phone. Great stuff.

I found Rosetta Stone and Pimsleur at decent prices so I picked those up off of eBay. I know the consensus in this thread is that RS isn't so great but a friend of mine really liked it for French so I figured I'd try it out and see what happens. I plan on using RS when I'm at home and Pimsleur during the hour or so a day I spend driving.

In the meantime, what's your advice on when to start reviewing sentences? I've only just started last week, so should I try to build up a lot of kanji first or just find some words and sentences from TV and games and start popping them into Anki?
 
R

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
You should have started reviewing last week, I feel. What I've learned is that if you're not reviewing, your learning is going to waste.
 
C

Cathcart

Member
Heh, well it's only been a few days. Not too much of a waste :)

So you don't think it hurt at all to jump in learning to read kanji that you haven't learn to write yet? If you come across new ones in sentences do you try to write them as well or just try to memorize them to get the sentence down?

Time to go find some sentences...
 
R

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Cathcart said:
Heh, well it's only been a few days. Not too much of a waste :)

So you don't think it hurt at all to jump in learning to read kanji that you haven't learn to write yet? If you come across new ones in sentences do you try to write them as well or just try to memorize them to get the sentence down?

Time to go find some sentences...
Click to expand...
Oh, sorry, I read "finished the Heisig book" and thought you meant the kanji, not kana. Yeah, get kanji done asap and focus on what you can right now with what you have.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Metroid Killer said:
One more Word trouble: How to make a quotation mark? You know the かっこ thingy?
Click to expand...
you mean 「　」　those?

It's just the square braces
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Metroid Killer said:
Yes those. We don't have square braces in the Danish Language, they aren't on the keyboard and I can't find them in symbols in Word either.
Click to expand...

If you're using IME, try parenthesis and then cycle through the input list.
 
M

Metroid Killer

Member
"Of course I was nervous, but I thought something other than reading and reading had to happen. I needed a challenge" she says.


Yeah I'm having trouble translation this sentence, mainly the bold part. I can't seem to find any japanese expressions that covers 'read and read'. Thanks for any help.
 
M

Magypsy23

Banned
Metroid Killer said:
"Of course I was nervous, but I thought something other than reading and reading had to happen. I needed a challenge" she says.


Yeah I'm having trouble translation this sentence, mainly the bold part. I can't seem to find any japanese expressions that covers 'read and read'. Thanks for any help.
Click to expand...

「勿論緊張していましたが、読んでばかりじゃ駄目だと思いました。挑戦が必要だったのです。」
 
M

Metroid Killer

Member
Another question!!

So I'm writing about Shinto and is including this commercial in my report.

Anyway I need to credit a person or a group. I figure the director would be a good in combination with the organisation(伊勢神宮式年遷宮広報本部) that is behind the commercial. So in that link there's the credit section, but I can't find out who the director is... is it 熊谷泰? or Manjot Bedi?

Thanks for any help
 
rykomatsu

rykomatsu

Member
Manjot Bedi and Hirata Mitsuo would be the 2 people you would want to include. Kumagaya (Kumatani?) is just the head of the administrative dept.
 
C

Cathcart

Member
Woot, half way through RtK I.

So far I've been doing 30 kanji/day every day since the start with no exceptions and reviewing in Anki. The Reviewing the Kanji site has really saved me, though. I've come up with a few good stories for the kanji in section 3 but I think without the user submitted stories on that site I would have fallen way behind by now. Good forums, too.

I've been doing Pimsleur lessons in the car during my commute (about 40 minutes in the car each way). It's pretty cool, I think. At the very least I'm picking up some basic grammar and pronunciation. When I first found this thread I tried looking at Tae Kim's guide and my eyes glazed over pretty quickly. After a month or so of Heisig and the first 10 lessons in Pimsleur I went back and Tae Kim made some more sense. So my goal for now is to keep that up so that by the time I finish RtK I can start doing some sentence mining. Pretty psyched about that :D
 
S

Snytbaggen

Member
So GAF, I've been learning some Japanese now and am thinking of getting some easy to read yet good manga in Japanese. Preferably with furigana, since it'd make it a lot easier. Genre doesn't really matter, as long as it's not moe or something like that. So, any advice?
 
rykomatsu

rykomatsu

Member
Snytbaggen2 said:
So GAF, I've been learning some Japanese now and am thinking of getting some easy to read yet good manga in Japanese. Preferably with furigana, since it'd make it a lot easier. Genre doesn't really matter, as long as it's not moe or something like that. So, any advice?
Click to expand...

oh boy...
You'll probably want to stick with something like Doraemon or something little kiddies will read. There's quite a bit out there that will put furigana different from its actual pronunciation...

for example:
禁書目録 from とある魔術の禁書目録 has furigana as インデックス, not きんしょもくろく.
超電磁砲 from とある魔術の超電磁砲 has furigana as レールガン, not ちょうでんじほう

The above set of series is particularly bad in that regards, but in general, it's more common with teen/young adult series. I'm sure someone will say otherwise, but yeah...I would see stuff like that as being detrimental to someone learning.

That said...maybe some series out of Korokoro Comics? Most series from kids to young adult do have furigana, however, so if you can tolerate the "technically wrong" furigana occasionally, then you might be better off hitting the manga thread.

I'm sure you'll get responses like the following as a majority:
Hajime no Ippo
Dragon Ball
Naruto
Bleach

If you're REALLY feeling like a challenge, give Moyashimon a shot (I don't remember if has furigana, though...)
 
S

Snytbaggen

Member
rykomatsu said:
oh boy...
You'll probably want to stick with something like Doraemon or something little kiddies will read. There's quite a bit out there that will put furigana different from its actual pronunciation...

for example:
禁書目録 from とある魔術の禁書目録 has furigana as インデックス, not きんしょもくろく.
超電磁砲 from とある魔術の超電磁砲 has furigana as レールガン, not ちょうでんじほう

The above set of series is particularly bad in that regards, but in general, it's more common with teen/young adult series. I'm sure someone will say otherwise, but yeah...I would see stuff like that as being detrimental to someone learning.

That said...maybe some series out of Korokoro Comics? Most series from kids to young adult do have furigana, however, so if you can tolerate the "technically wrong" furigana occasionally, then you might be better off hitting the manga thread.

I'm sure you'll get responses like the following as a majority:
Hajime no Ippo
Dragon Ball
Naruto
Bleach

If you're REALLY feeling like a challenge, give Moyashimon a shot (I don't remember if has furigana, though...)
Click to expand...
Hmm, so it's as I feared :lol

I guess it'd be best for me to wait a few months more or something before trying to read anything. The thing I fear most is kanji, and I feel I haven't learned enough in school yet to actually read something, hence the furigana. Even though all I do this year is study japanese and we have already gone through two learning books this autumn I almost feel like I haven't learned shit :lol I know I have, but it still feels like I haven't :lol

EDIT: Okay, let's change that a bit. It's not like I don't know any japanese, I can hold a simple conversation about some things. Why am I going on about this anyway? I don't even know why myself.
 
R

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
rykomatsu said:
The above set of series is particularly bad in that regards, but in general, it's more common with teen/young adult series. I'm sure someone will say otherwise, but yeah...I would see stuff like that as being detrimental to someone learning.
Click to expand...
Not really sure how.
Anyway, just pick up some different manga and flip through them. If it seems interesting/doable, go for it.
 
louis89

louis89

Member
I picked probably the worst first manga for someone learning Japanese ever. It's called 数学ガール, and there's me thinking it's just going to be about some girl who likes maths and her high school adventures with friends and boys and all that jazz. Turns out there's basically no story and the whole thing is based around explaining mathematical proofs. The grand finale was the derivation of the general term of the Fibonacci sequence. =/

I managed to finish it (it's a tankobon), but it would have been hard to understand in English, let alone Japanese. Never thought I'd learn words like 等比数列, or 不等式.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Shouta said:
It was actually on the test, took it last Sunday :lol

I had to hold back the laughter.
Click to expand...
What is that from?

Is it Patlabor or something? I heard mobile fighter, but I thought I heard someone say "asuka"?

EDIT: OOoh, it's a parody :lol I should have been able to guess :lol
 
R

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Yeah, JLPT2 we got some monkey stealing an old guy's onigiri. I was choking back the laughter for that because of how overdone it was. I would have died on that JLPT1 one. And failed even more than I did JLPT2. :(
 
S

shanshan310

Member
EDIT: sorry about the double post.

Snytbaggen2 said:
Hmm, so it's as I feared :lol

I guess it'd be best for me to wait a few months more or something before trying to read anything. The thing I fear most is kanji, and I feel I haven't learned enough in school yet to actually read something, hence the furigana. Even though all I do this year is study japanese and we have already gone through two learning books this autumn I almost feel like I haven't learned shit :lol I know I have, but it still feels like I haven't :lol

EDIT: Okay, let's change that a bit. It's not like I don't know any japanese, I can hold a simple conversation about some things. Why am I going on about this anyway? I don't even know why myself.
Click to expand...

Most manga books have the hiragana written beside the kanji, so it shouldn't be a problem. When i visited Japan last year i bought a whole bunch (maybe 15.. oh man i was so worried about my baggage weight at the airpost:lol ), and i think only one didn't have the hiragana beside the kanji.

Also, i'm going on a ten month exchange in March, and since school has already ended here all the study i do is on my own. I know if i don't study i'll forget things, but i'm really not sure where to start. I was just gonna read back through my old textbooks but are there any phrases/patterns/kanji/topics that i wouldn't have covered in high school that would be useful? My teacher sent me a booklet about the hospital but as its a learn english book everything is kanji.
 
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