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The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese

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Smart.fm is now a pay service. I am thinking about paying for it, as they are offering a 50% deal for old users. However, if you guys know of a better service/program worth my money, I'd love to hear about it before I commit to anything. What do you guys think?
 

adam.chance

Neo Member
I have a quick translation request. Could someone please translate "sloth" into Japanese for me? I am looking for the seven deadly sins type of sloth.
 

Zoe

Member
That reminds me, does anyone know of lyrics sites that don't use Flash to display the lyrics? Or alternatively, a method to extract the text from Flash?

I used to get all my lyrics from Goo, but they recently switched away from plain text. I found 歌詞タイム, but they're missing lots of songs from popular artists.
 
Zoe said:
That reminds me, does anyone know of lyrics sites that don't use Flash to display the lyrics? Or alternatively, a method to extract the text from Flash?

I used to get all my lyrics from Goo, but they recently switched away from plain text. I found 歌詞タイム, but they're missing lots of songs from popular artists.

Oh dude, I hate that shit!

I used to play in a keiongaku circle in colege, and what's even worse is trying to find guitar tabulature. You basically have to buy super expensive books released by by the record label.
 

.JayZii

Banned
Well I've been studying for the past 7 months or so in University and I am really loving it. I studied Spanish for 3 years but it never really stuck in my head; however, something about the way Japanese is set up just clicks in my brain. Maybe its just because at my level it has two irregular verbs and follows all of its rules. Does Japanese start to break a lot of the language rules as it gets more advanced?
 
.JayZii said:
Well I've been studying for the past 7 months or so in University and I am really loving it. I studied Spanish for 3 years but it never really stuck in my head; however, something about the way Japanese is set up just clicks in my brain. Maybe its just because at my level it has two irregular verbs and follows all of its rules. Does Japanese start to break a lot of the language rules as it gets more advanced?

Not really. It stays pretty reasonable. The difficult part is vocabulary and chinese characters, I think. Grammar fairly consistent.
 

cntr

Banned
Japanese is very regular. Nearly all agglutinative languages are. Turkish has only 1 irregular verb and Quechua has zero! o:
 
I have a stupid question to ask. Can you put "ka" after every verb? I always see it being used during the polite versions but not after the plain form and the te form. I always hear the question being implied through tone rather than using ka.

Nomimasu ka?
Nomu ka?
Nonde iru ka?

Thanks.
 
it's not wrong, just pretty uncommon as a basic question form - you're right that usually you'd just drop the ka and use intonation. i just typed "飲むか?" into google and got like 1,300,000 results (though for some reason the speech marks don't make the question mark essential, so some were like 飲むかどうか" which is obviously okay), so people do say it.

from a learner's perspective, i used to find it useful when talking with friends if i wasn't sure on sentence intonation - it does make your sentence into an unambiguous question, though saying "飲むの?" is probably better.

also i hear it used to highlight surprise. like, "飲むか?" could mean "i didn't know we were expected to drink..."
 

cntr

Banned
345triangle said:
(though for some reason the speech marks don't make the question mark essential, so some were like 飲むかどうか" which is obviously okay)
afaik, since the question mark isn't native Japanese punctuation, using question marks is a bit colloquial.
 

Zoe

Member
bigmit3737 said:
Thank you.

The word "hanasou", how is that written in Japanese?
The only meaning I found was , "Let's talk".

Is there another meaning to it?
Thank you.

No, they just left that word out.

Edit: There are other uses of "hanasou" written with different kanji, but in this case, the song uses 話そう.
 

.JayZii

Banned
KS Seven X said:
I have a stupid question to ask. Can you put "ka" after every verb? I always see it being used during the polite versions but not after the plain form and the te form. I always hear the question being implied through tone rather than using ka.

Nomimasu ka?
Nomu ka?
Nonde iru ka?

Thanks.
You can use it I believe, it just makes your question more direct, like you are grilling someone more than just asking it vaguely. I am still a bit fresh to Japanese though so you may want to take this with a grain of salt.
 
cntrational said:
afaik, since the question mark isn't native Japanese punctuation, using question marks is a bit colloquial.

well, what i mean is that normally if you put something in quotation marks in google it means that your search results will all contain that exact string.

you're right, though i'd say it's more normal than just colloquial - i see question marks in question sentences more often than not.

cntrational said:
How do you guys read those tiny ass kanji-blobs on the computer?

this is the number 1 reason i want a retina display ipad ASAP. reading kanji on the iphone 4 is an amazing experience.
 

.JayZii

Banned
I just learned how to use とき/時 today in class. Japanese words can be so versatile and succinct in expressing ideas sometimes that I just love it.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
345triangle said:
it's not wrong, just pretty uncommon as a basic question form - you're right that usually you'd just drop the ka and use intonation. i just typed "飲むか?" into google and got like 1,300,000 results (though for some reason the speech marks don't make the question mark essential, so some were like 飲むかどうか" which is obviously okay), so people do say it.

from a learner's perspective, i used to find it useful when talking with friends if i wasn't sure on sentence intonation - it does make your sentence into an unambiguous question, though saying "飲むの?" is probably better.

also i hear it used to highlight surprise. like, "飲むか?" could mean "i didn't know we were expected to drink..."

Hmm. To my knowledge, verbs in plain form followed by "ka" as a way to ask a question are pretty rare when talking. As you said, you'd use intonation instead. Stuff like "nomu ka" is written language as far as I know, it sounds a bit too dry and strict when said out loud.

There is one case that I know of where you would say it, but the nuance is different. I have a hard time explaining it, but I guess you'd say it when you realize something, or as if you're talking to yourself. Like, if someone told you that you're supposed to drink the thing you're talking about (like, say, a drug), one way of responding would be "そっか。のむか。" ("I see, so you drink it, eh?")... I THINK, but someone with a more thorough understanding should confirm or infirm this.

Two other examples I have in mind are しかたないか (which I would personally translate to "I guess I can't do anything about it", with the "I guess" part corresponding to "ka") and そういうことか, which is harder to translate without context, but it's the same idea as what I said above I suppose. You're told something you didn't know/had a misconception of, and you're saying "Oh, so that's what it is!", "that's how it is then". Again, all this is for the most part what my intuition tells me, but I think I'm close to being right at least. The "shikata nai ka" example is an actual textbook example, but it was supposed to be a dialogue and my professor (who's Japanese) explained the nuance to us, saying the character is basically talking to himself.

[EDIT] I fail at reading, you touched upon this in the message I quoted, sorry. Oh well, I went deeper :p. You're right that there's an element of surprise to it.
 

cntr

Banned
345triangle said:
well, what i mean is that normally if you put something in quotation marks in google it means that your search results will all contain that exact string.

you're right, though i'd say it's more normal than just colloquial - i see question marks in question sentences more often than not.
Oh. Misunderstood. >__>
 

KtSlime

Member
.JayZii said:
I just learned how to use とき/時 today in class. Japanese words can be so versatile and succinct in expressing ideas sometimes that I just love it.

What, you mean like nominal modification?

遊園地へ行った時は楽しかった。
図書館借りた本を読んでいる。

I always liked that any dousi can be manipulated in this fashion, they terribly flexible in Japanese - however can cause great headache with run-on sentences.

Good luck with your studies.

cntrational: After reading Kanji in Super Famicon games, reading on a computer is a piece of cake, and with time you kind of just get a feel of what goes together, and even if you can't clearly make out the character the general shape often clues you as to what it sounds like, and context and radical what it means. I think I can comfortably read down to 9pt, 4w font - although I also wouldn't mind a retina display on my iPad for reading, my iPhone has spoiled me.
 

Masked Man

I said wow
Desiato said:
Can anyone tell me if this sample exam of JLPT N1 is really representative of the real deal? If it is I'm definitely going for N1 in June.

Honestly, I feel like the practice questions were a lot easier than those on the actual exam. (For the record, I took the Dec. 2010 test, so I can't speak to how the practice questions compared with the Jul. 2010 test.)
 
So my Japanese lecturer this year is really pedantic. To the point where she is marking me wrong for things like:

16k9j68.jpg


zk3m05.jpg



The second one in particular frustrated me because it ruined my perfect score =/ (plus I clearly know the answer..) The thing is though, she's got this very "I am right and you are wrong" attitude, and honestly I'm afraid of approaching her... I just wanted to know what you guys thought. Is she a perfectionist, but ultimately right, or should I have gotten that mark?

Also look how overpriced our textbook is!!! I don't know how they can justify charging us that much extra.

mrspav.jpg
 
it's pedantic but well, if nothing else i guess you won't forget how to write え correctly in future? i have to mark students down for not accurately crossing Ts sometimes, so yeah.
 
345triangle said:
it's pedantic but well, if nothing else i guess you won't forget how to write え correctly in future? i have to mark students down for not accurately crossing Ts sometimes, so yeah.

ha ha, that's for sure. I'm going to have the most awesome handwriting by the end of the year. I guess I just have to take better care.

Are these Japanese learners of English? Some of my friends have been marked wrong for bad English handwriting :p
 

Furoba

Member
shanshan310 said:
So my Japanese lecturer this year is really pedantic. To the point where she is marking me wrong for things like:

The second one in particular frustrated me because it ruined my perfect score =/ (plus I clearly know the answer..) The thing is though, she's got this very "I am right and you are wrong" attitude, and honestly I'm afraid of approaching her... I just wanted to know what you guys thought. Is she a perfectionist, but ultimately right, or should I have gotten that mark?

Nothing to be frustrated about, because you wrote it wrong.
You wrote the upper part of 製 like 矢, and the bottom part should be like 衣.
Stroke count, direction and character balance are all very important. Your teacher is far from a perfectionist.
 

cntr

Banned
Question: how good is your Japanese writing style?

Edit: ambiguity

I don't mean "writing" as in physical writing, I mean writing as in the way you write about things.
 

hiro4

Member
I would have marked your "ga" as well.

My high school teacher would sometimes go in to total perfection mode when it comes to stroke count, direction and balance. She was a tough one, but I do respect her for it.
She always made it clear why it was wrong and why it should be the way it is.

Also, my kanji writing style is pretty good I think. nice balance etc.
My hiragana not so much, I hate how I write "Ra" "Ru" "Ro".
Just can't get it right even after all those years.
 
shanshan310 said:
ha ha, that's for sure. I'm going to have the most awesome handwriting by the end of the year. I guess I just have to take better care.

Are these Japanese learners of English? Some of my friends have been marked wrong for bad English handwriting :p

yeah, it goes both ways!

i think my japanese handwriting is pretty good when it's something i actually know offhand, but i seriously cannot remember how to write kanji for the life of me. i can read well over a thousand but probably can't write more than a third of them from memory.

i guess that's what learning them from iphone flashcards will do for you...
 

.JayZii

Banned
I draw a lot so my Japanese handwriting is actually pretty good. I like writing with kanji even though it usually is more time consuming than just writing the whole thing in kana.

That is pretty annoying that your teacher marks off points for such small errors, but how hard is it to write え really? :p
 

Zoe

Member
It really is important to mark small errors though because mistakes you make in the beginning will turn into habits. I'm a little surprised 言 wasn't marked off.

(at least it's not a Chinese class--they mark you wrong for going in the wrong direction)
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Count me in the "your teacher is ultimately right" camp.
I would have knocked both words, but only by half a point for the second word (the one with the weird "e").
 

rareside

Member
Any advice for a quick brushing up of Japanese? I have a job interview in a couple days that will require some Japanese. I'm a bit rusty, but at my best I had *JUST* barely failed 2kyu.

I aim to pass 1kyu this year in December, but at the time of the interview I'll still be a bit rusty.

I've got my jikoshookai down, but other than that I'm not sure what to study.

For reference, I don't think I'll be speaking to any Japanese natives in the interview, but the interviewers will know plenty of Japanese. I just want to feel good about my Japanese!

OUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEENNDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNN!
 
How often are you actually going to be writing those kanjis by hand in the future? Probably never. Unless you're in a caligraphy class, nobody gives two shits about stroke order or that other BS.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Synth_floyd said:
How often are you actually going to be writing those kanjis by hand in the future? Probably never. Unless you're in a caligraphy class, nobody gives two shits about stroke order or that other BS.

If you live in Japan? Fairly often.

Sure you can get by with shitty looking characters, but if you're going to do something, you may as well do it right.
 
I dunno, I really like writing kanji, even if I may not use it all that much (most stuff is typed nowadays).

Speaking of which...
I'm writing a speech about the kanji 咲 (and how it relates to アラハタ大学生, if you were interested). Anyway, one of my dictionaries said that it can be both さく (bloom) and わらう (smile). Would anyone be able to verify that it also means smile? Its not in my electronic dictionary, so I'm not sure... =/
 
cntrational said:
A entire speech about one kanji?

yup. (its only three minutes long, which is not so bad) :D

I was thinking about posting it here, since I'm giving it tomorrow and haven't actually had anyone look over it yet... Would anyone mind having a look?
 

Zoe

Member
shanshan310 said:
I dunno, I really like writing kanji, even if I may not use it all that much (most stuff is typed nowadays).

Speaking of which...
I'm writing a speech about the kanji 咲 (and how it relates to アラハタ大学生, if you were interested). Anyway, one of my dictionaries said that it can be both さく (bloom) and わらう (smile). Would anyone be able to verify that it also means smile? Its not in my electronic dictionary, so I'm not sure... =/

Yes. Plug it into here: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C
 

gerg

Member
Kanji is awesome. It's why I know that fig trees have no flowers. I also love writing 薔薇.

(The kanji for "fig" is 無花果.)
 
Zefah said:
If you live in Japan? Fairly often.

Sure you can get by with shitty looking characters, but if you're going to do something, you may as well do it right.

at least you can fall back on kana in a pinch though - lord knows japanese people do! the only time i ever find myself NEEDING to write fairly complex kanji is when filling out forms etc, and i can always just check my phone for that.

it's also worth noting all the shorthand that people use, because it's what i find myself having to read most of the time. i'd actually love to know a good resource for this, if anyone's got one! the examples i know are mostly from me reading memos and saying "uh, the hell is this".

my favourite is where the entire right half of 機 gets replaced by キ.
 
cntrational said:
Sure, post it.

皆さん、今日私が選んだ話題はアラハタの未来です。そして、漢字はこれです。(ホワイトボードで咲を書く)読み方は‘しょう’と‘さく’と‘わらう’で、bloomやsmileと言う意味があります。

咲くにきめた 理由はいろいろがありますが、一つは花が咲いたばかりのときというのは人生で一番いい時と言えると思います。花が咲くときの天気は晴れていて、毎日がうれしい気持ちです。そして、光の中では 自信が持てるし、若わかしさを感じます。
咲き始める前に、きれいな花になりたいとか、いろいろな夢があり、まだ大人ではありませんが、自分のことを考えているので、花が開くとすぐ大人になります。そして夢がやっと実現します。子供の時は、つぼみのような木の部分です。しかし、大人になると両親にまかせられなくなります。もう木の花だけではありません。花は自分自身です。
この漢字の他の読み方にはわらうというのがあります。アラハタ生活はたいへんなことばかりではなく、いろいろな機会があるので、毎日のほとんどが楽しくて、わらいがたくさんあります。
私は、咲の書き方はちょっとシンプルだと思います。アラハタのイメージも生活は時々複雑ですが、だいたいシンプルな生活だと思います。
それで、この漢字はアラハタに合うと思いました。ありがとうございました。

ta daaa.
 

Masked Man

I said wow
咲くにきめた 理由はいろいろがありますが

Take out the が after いろいろ

一つは花が咲いたばかりのときというのは

You could probably make というのは into が for conciseness

人生で一番いい時と言えると思います

Remember the だ before と, and cut the と言える

花が咲くときの天気は晴れていて、毎日がうれしい気 持ちです。

To avoid topic/subject confusion, maybe go for 天気は晴れているので、毎日うれしい気持ちでいっぱいです

そして、光の中では 自信が持てるし、若わかしさを感じます。

Maybe change 光の中では to 太陽の光を浴びていると, and end with 感じるのです

いろいろな夢があり

I like いろいろな夢があるだろうし (since it's speculative)

自分のことを考えているので、花が開くとすぐ大人になります。

It's not really a causal relationship, so maybe say something like ずっと自分のことを考えていて、そして花が開くとすぐに大人になるわけです

そし て夢がやっと実現します。

Maybe change そして to それで

しかし、大人になると両親にまかせられなくなります。

It's a little unclear what is being まかせられる. I would also change なると to なったら

もう木の花だけではありません。花は自 分自身です。

Maybe combine these sentences into one: 〜だけではなく、木との関係がなくなり、別の存在として生きていくわけです。

この漢字の他の読み方にはわらうというのがあります。

It might sound better as この漢字は「わらう」とも読めます。

アラハタ生活はたいへんなことばかりではなく、いろいろな機会があるので、

I don't think you can use アラハタ as a qualifier like that... Maybe try アラハタたちの生活には〜 and I might also qualify 機会 with いい/良い

毎日のほとんどが楽しくて、わら いがたくさんあります。

Maybe try ほとんど毎日が楽しくて、わらわせてくれることがたくさんあります

私は、咲の書き方はちょっとシンプルだと思います。

Take out the 私は, and say この漢字の書き方

アラハタのイメージも生活は時々複雑ですが、だいたいシンプルな生活だと思います。

Kind of complicated... I would say something closer to アラハタたちの生活はよく複雑だと思われていますが、この漢字の書き方と同じように、だいたいシンプルだと思います。

それで、この漢字はアラハタに合うと思いました。ありがとうございました。

Maybe change それで to こうして or こういう理由で, and change アラハタ to アラハタたち. I would end the sentence に合ってると思います

ありがとうございました。

It sounds nicer/more polite to thank your audience specifically: 聞いてくださって、ありがとうございました is simple yet effective.
 

Zoe

Member
When is it appropriate to switch from こんにちは to こんばんは? One of my friends always seems to say the former no matter what time of night it is.
 
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