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[Mik2121]

クリスマス以来、家族に会っていません。

or

クリスマスから、家族に会っていない。

Using 以来 is a bit more formal than just から, but if you're talking to some friend or someone with whom you can talk in a casual manner, から is alright. In fact, I've hardly heard any of my friends use 以来 in that way (or in any, really).
Usually a conversion with one of my friends goes like this:

友＞あぁ～あ！もう5月なのに作品進まなさすぎてワロタｗ
僕＞こないだゲームしてたし、今PSN落ちてるのにまだゲームしてんちゃう？ｗ
友＞ちがうって！あれからゲームしてないし！
僕＞はいはい・・・
友＞ｗｗ

You can get an idea

i would use 以来〜ない。

家族は、クリスマス以来一度も会いません。

This would be correct except because you are saying "I don't meet my family once ever since Christmas", which makes it sound like some sort of 'rule' or something you usually do. I'd change 会いません with 会っていない or 会っていません instead (or if you're very formal (?) add でした at the end of your phrase).

 

[erpg]

So, would anyone recommend Rosetta Stone?

I dropped out of a summer Japanese course today, which was obviously not for beginners and instead being used as an easy credit for native speakers. Not a word of English was used for instructions, but they were being followed by two thirds of the class, so obviously, though the course is targeted towards those without any knowledge, I was wasting a thousand dollars to be ridiculed by the teacher and the institution. Truly, the only word of English I heard was when I was asked if I wanted to sit at the front as I got up to leave.

I'm incredibly angry, but I'd still like to learn, so something interactive would be nice. Especially if there's audio and encouragement, because I'm running on frustration right now.

 

[KtSlime]

So, would anyone recommend Rosetta Stone?

I dropped out of a summer Japanese course today, which was obviously not for beginners and instead being used as an easy credit for native speakers. Not a word of English was used for instructions, but they were being followed by two thirds of the class, so obviously, though the course is targeted towards those without any knowledge, I was wasting a thousand dollars to be ridiculed by the teacher and the institution. Truly, the only word of English I heard was when I was asked if I wanted to sit at the front as I got up to leave.

I'm incredibly angry, but I'd still like to learn, so something interactive would be nice. Especially if there's audio and encouragement, because I'm running on frustration right now.

I personally hate Rosetta Stone, especially the Japanese version. It does not teach you a language, but rather a facsimile of one, it reduces all languages to some sort of 'common' denominator which isn't really, and then you learn rosetta stone-ese. (I could go on forever, but I won't, unless you ask me to)

If you don't mind my asking, what book/program were you going through for your first year?

It sucks that you were ridiculed, I too have terrible memories of my first Japanese class, I nearly broke into tears a couple of times (I jumped into the intensive 201 as my first Japanese class).

 

[erpg]

Genki I: An Integrated Course in Elementary Japanese I, which I returned upon cancellation for a refund, but would be willing to buy again if it's recommended. Argh. Honestly, the whole thing was such a clusterfuck, but I think its motivated me as some sort of academic revenge thing.

But mostly, my goal is still to read Oreimo.

 

[KtSlime]

Genki I: An Integrated Course in Elementary Japanese I, which I returned upon cancellation for a refund, but would be willing to buy again if it's recommended. Argh. Honestly, the whole thing was such a clusterfuck, but I think its motivated me as some sort of academic revenge thing.

But mostly, my goal is still to read Oreimo.

I'll start off by being completely honest with you and letting you know that you are likely a long ways off from reading material like Oreimo, but it is certainly possible. Dedication and a bit of that academic revenge should help.

I both like and dislike Genki, and I'll get to that in a second. The textbook I learned from was Japanese: The Spoken Language, by Jordan, JSL for short, it is the most infuriating of all Japanese textbooks ever written, however I am grateful because of some of the skills it reinforced my japanese with. Genki has some wonderful characteristics to it, but it is very much at the beginning a phrase based book, one that does not go into great detail of how to form sentences but rather provides prebuilt phrases to help ease your communication and help you with a running start. The first couple of years of Japanese, no matter what the program is you decide to go with are going to be frustrating, aside from learning a new grammar, writing system, vocabulary, you also will feel trapped by being unable to efficiently convey your thoughts - Do not let this get to you, you have learned one language already, many millions speak Japanese, you can also with some time and effort speak in Japanese.

Before I write a too detailed message I would like to know a few more things. What were some of the pitfalls you found yourself in when in class? What was hard for you, learning the kana, the kanji (if you got there yet), the vocabulary, the grammar, or the act of recitation in class?

Edit: *looks for copy of genki in garage* What chapter did you leave at, and what chapter did you start feeling like you were starting to 'drown'?

 

[shanshan310]

So, would anyone recommend Rosetta Stone?

I dropped out of a summer Japanese course today, which was obviously not for beginners and instead being used as an easy credit for native speakers. Not a word of English was used for instructions, but they were being followed by two thirds of the class, so obviously, though the course is targeted towards those without any knowledge, I was wasting a thousand dollars to be ridiculed by the teacher and the institution. Truly, the only word of English I heard was when I was asked if I wanted to sit at the front as I got up to leave.

I'm incredibly angry, but I'd still like to learn, so something interactive would be nice. Especially if there's audio and encouragement, because I'm running on frustration right now.

Can you get your money back? If it was advertised as a beginners class thats really what it should be. Native Japanese speakers aren't really allowed to take those kind of classes either...

If it helps you feel better about your terrible experience, for my first Japanese test I had to do an introduction for myself. Then the teacher abruptly said "oh, now do one for your friend". So while I was freaking out trying to figure out which friend to pick, she interupted me "what? don't you have any friends?" =/

In regard to Rosetta stone, I used it a filler for Korean (because I had to wait six months before I could study it at uni). I think it helped me a fair bit. I tried out the French one too, which was better because I could actually read it. And I can still remember all the words, despite only using it for a short time. So, I'd say its good, but not on its own. It helps, but you need back up. Explanations in English for the grammar and concepts that are difficult to explain with pictures. Its pretty expensive though.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So, would anyone recommend Rosetta Stone?

I dropped out of a summer Japanese course today, which was obviously not for beginners and instead being used as an easy credit for native speakers. Not a word of English was used for instructions, but they were being followed by two thirds of the class, so obviously, though the course is targeted towards those without any knowledge, I was wasting a thousand dollars to be ridiculed by the teacher and the institution. Truly, the only word of English I heard was when I was asked if I wanted to sit at the front as I got up to leave.

I'm incredibly angry, but I'd still like to learn, so something interactive would be nice. Especially if there's audio and encouragement, because I'm running on frustration right now.

There must have been some misunderstanding...

What was the course name/number and what school was it at?

 

[Shouta]

If it was advertised as a beginner's course and it wasn't, demand your money back. If they won't, then I would consider taking it a step further from there.

 

[KtSlime]

There must have been some misunderstanding...

What was the course name/number and what school was it at?

My guess is it was either a heritage or an immersion class, if it was a heritage class he should request a refund. However, considering the course material was Genki 1, I would venture to say that it was intended for beginners.

 

[erpg]

Yeah, it was a beginner 1000-level course, I was actually baffled and had to double check the syllabus. There are supposed to be placement exams to make sure students are placed into proper classes when taking language courses but they aren't enforced by the registrar.

We honestly weren't more than 5 hours into the course, so I could recite phrases, without knowing any meaning of the words, nor context without the images. I had to ask the students next to me where we were in the text numerous times, because there was no guidance in English. When I was learning English (French is my first language), we were getting French instructions, and the teacher would introduce examples which were then in English. Here, I would capture what was essentially at my level incomprehensible, and then two thirds of the class would respond with something else, that I also wasn't able to find on the pages we were reading. I was paying 1300$ for it, and I can't afford to throw that kind of money away just to ruin my own GPA and kid myself into thinking this teaching style will eventually click with me. The entire affair was uncomfortable, a terrible environment to learn in. Luckily, I''m out early enough to be able to get a full refund with no academic penalty (but they take months to process refunds, ugh).

I might look into a college course, which will be likely be cheaper, and not taught by a linguistics professor wrapped in the warm blanket of tenure. Some of the reviews on Amazon aren't too favorable for Rosetta, so maybe I'll stick to a textbook for now since I won't have that money back in my pocket for awhile.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Granted I know the OP is old as the fuck.

I always suggest Gozoku to everyone learning Japanese, it's a J->E dictionary that gives both simple and complex sentence examples (which is weird because a "complex" sentence is just a string of "simple" sentences.)

Gozoku

 

[shanshan310]

So this week's kanji list includes　在る (to exist)　and 成る (to become), but I have never seen them written with Kanji before, only hiragana. Are these only for certain situations, or have younger Japanese, like with many kanji, just decided not to use them? Or have I just been totally oblivious? よくわかんない、あたし。。。 Which reminds me, you rarely see 分かる written in Kanji either...

 

[gerg]

So this week's kanji list includes　在る (to exist)　and 成る (to become), but I have never seen them written with Kanji before, only hiragana. Are these only for certain situations, or have younger Japanese, like with many kanji, just decided not to use them? Or have I just been totally oblivious? よくわかんない、あたし。。。 Which reminds me, you rarely see 分かる written in Kanji either...

People just rarely use them, I think.　

For example, you could use kanji in the constructions "~てみる" and "~かもしれない" as well, but people don't.

I'm pretty sure every Japanese word (that isn't foreign) should technically have kanji - できる　(出来&#12427 and いる　(居&#12427 do, for example. Heck, "Shakespeare" can be written in kanji if you want to. (Of course, that's wildly anachronistic.)

 

[Mik2121]

People just rarely use them, I think.　

For example, you could use kanji in the constructions "~てみる" and "~かもしれない" as well, but people don't.

I'm pretty sure every Japanese word (that isn't foreign) should technically have kanji - できる　(出来&#12427 and いる　(居&#12427 do, for example. Heck, "Shakespeare" can be written in kanji if you want to. (Of course, that's wildly anachronistic.)

出来る is often written in kanji, so it isn't the best example you could give

 

[gerg]

出来る is often written in kanji, so it isn't the best example you could give

My bad. : P

On the other hand, the kanji for "Shakespeare" is "沙翁". However, that matter is more academic than most.

themoreyouknow.jpeg

 

[Kilrogg]

People just rarely use them, I think.　

For example, you could use kanji in the constructions "~てみる" and "~かもしれない" as well, but people don't.

This is a different issue, I think. Kanji tend to be dropped in any word that is grammaticalized to a significant degree. I guess this is partly out of practicality and partly to differentiate the word used as a logic tool from its original meaning-driven use(s). Stuff like という、わけ (as a rough synonym of &#12398 and したがって are written in full hiragana more often than not. You'll still read them with the kanji every now and then, in fact it's not even that rare in some cases, but the point still stands.

 

[KtSlime]

This is a different issue, I think. Kanji tend to be dropped in any word that is grammaticalized to a significant degree. I guess this is partly out of practicality and partly to differentiate the word used as a logic tool from its original meaning-driven use(s). Stuff like という、わけ (as a rough synonym of &#12398 and したがって are written in full hiragana more often than not. You'll still read them with the kanji every now and then, in fact it's not even that rare in some cases, but the point still stands.

This. The more a word is used in grammatical way the less likely the writer is going to use its kanji which is used to convey meaning and the more likely they are going to use hiragana which is used as a tool to convey the synthetic morphology of the language. This means many words that have been lifted to a serve a grammatical role in their most usual uses aren't typically written using kanji that they have.

Lyphen: Yeah, stick with a college course rather than going through some special program, at least until you are more comfortable with the language.

 

[erpg]

Bought the "Human Japanese" app from the Android Marketplace to run on my tablet. Its been review so far, but I'm understanding everything so much better (whereas before I was really just reciting). It's a pretty great application, considering the price (10$). I'll use this as a base and start and grow from there.

 

[alekth]

I finally got myself a proper electronic dictionary!

http://casio.jp/exword/products/model/dic/?code=XD-B4800, and I've been drooling over it for the past couple of days. Went for the high school version since, well, the really really good one was way too expensive, and the HS one had a lot of the encyclopaedic kind of dictionaries dictionaries on biology, chemistry, maths etc.

It has a lot of stuff for learning English, being aimed at Japanese students, and while waiting for it to arrive, I was already writing off those features, but they are surprisingly good since in the end they can work both ways and come with a lot of translated/explained example sentences on word usage. Well, the listening and grammar exercises are still pretty worthless in that aspect, but at this point they aren't such a huge part of the whole package.

I'd definitely recommend one to anybody studying Japanese. I'm at the end of my second year, mostly used the DS dictionary in class and a mix of Tagaini Jisho, web-based dictionaries and Wikipedia at home, and this thing now can take care of most of it (and is also great when gaming). Wish it had the grammar dictionaries stuffed in, of course, though it has some entries grammar and usage cases deemed to be problematic for native speakers in HS.

 

[345triangle]

i don't know if i can see the value of carrying a dictionary over a really good iphone app like wisdom. am i missing something? i kind of want one just because some of them are pretty cool tech, but they're expensive considering the functionality that is already in my pocket.

So this week's kanji list includes　在る (to exist)　and 成る (to become), but I have never seen them written with Kanji before, only hiragana. Are these only for certain situations, or have younger Japanese, like with many kanji, just decided not to use them? Or have I just been totally oblivious? よくわかんない、あたし。。。 Which reminds me, you rarely see 分かる written in Kanji either...

well even if they're not used in the words themselves (you're right, they often aren't), you should still learn the reading - for example, 成る is used a bunch in things like 成田.

 

[shanshan310]

oh of course. I love learning Kanji I just wasn't sure if I should use them incase they were situation specific. But it seems that people just don't use them.

I finally got myself a proper electronic dictionary!

I'd definitely recommend one to anybody studying Japanese. I'm at the end of my second year, mostly used the DS dictionary in class and a mix of Tagaini Jisho, web-based dictionaries and Wikipedia at home, and this thing now can take care of most of it (and is also great when gaming). Wish it had the grammar dictionaries stuffed in, of course, though it has some entries grammar and usage cases deemed to be problematic for native speakers in HS.

yeah, the electronic dictionaries can be pretty good (best part is being able to write in Kanji since I don't have a kanji dictionary). I've been using the DS Genius one. Only problem is looking up English words, which I using double check using http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C

 

[KtSlime]

i don't know if i can see the value of carrying a dictionary over a really good iphone app like wisdom. am i missing something? i kind of want one just because some of them are pretty cool tech, but they're expensive considering the functionality that is already in my pocket.

Wisdom? Never heard of it. I have a couple of good iPhone apps and they have kept me from getting a densi jisyo, such as Japanese, Kanjibox, and a copy of the 大辞泉. I'd like one, but I don't really think it is worth spending my limited funds on. Bout the only thing I would get out of it is to look uber japanophile infront of people and the ability to use a stylus to write characters that take about as long for me to calculate the skip code for.

alekth: Congrats on the purchase, the EX-Word is an amazing series of jisyo, you'll be very pleased.

 

[sh4mike]

How do you read this name? English or kana translation appreciated.

冨沢

 

[345triangle]

tomizawa (とみざわ）

Wisdom? Never heard of it.

wisdom is a japanese-english dictionary aimed at japanese learners of english, but i love the iphone/ipad version because its example sentences are second to none; you can type in idiomatic english and it'll usually come up with a great semantic translation.

i'd recommend it to any intermediate student of japanese - it requires a fair bit of reading ability because the translations are for native japanese speakers, but being a dictionary you can obviously look up anything you don't understand straight away.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Bought the "Human Japanese" app from the Android Marketplace to run on my tablet. Its been review so far, but I'm understanding everything so much better (whereas before I was really just reciting). It's a pretty great application, considering the price (10$). I'll use this as a base and start and grow from there.

A few more apps you should grab (depending on where you are in the language as far as learning.)

Ankidroid - to people for kanji learning purposes. I am so against rote because it's ridiculously inefficient. I don't have an honeycomb tablet yet so I can't comment on how well it works on them.

JED - Basically a Japanese -> English Dictionary

Obenkyo - Kanji teaching tool with a pretty good dictionary, there's an area to practice writing out the kanji and even if the kanji is 100% accurate, if the stroke order is wrong it will show you where you messed up. It also has dictionary search by writing the kanji.

WWWJDIC - Not the prettiest looking app, but....it's very good at what it does.....being a Japanese -> English Dictionary.

Jishop - Yet another Japanese -> English Dictionary / Kanji learning tool, this one focuses on compound kanji.

Again, I haven't tested any of these on a honeycomb android tablet, so I can't tell you they work on them.

 

[cntr]

3/4ths of the way through RTK.

Note to Anki users: go to shared plugins and search for "gloss".

 

[BlueMagic]

So, I've read many pages of this thread, gathered a few resources that you guys recommended so that I can start learning Japanese. My intention is to start learning basic Japanese, and after that maybe take up a course or two to keep progressing. Of course, it's going to take me a couple of years to barely understand a thing, but I'll try.

Do you guys have any recommendation as to what I can do, or what I can get to start?
As I said, I read the OP and many pages and I have gathered some websites (guidetojapanese, AJATT, etc.) and such, but I'm asking for advice for beginners. Thanks very much.

 

[Fugu]

This. The more a word is used in grammatical way the less likely the writer is going to use its kanji which is used to convey meaning and the more likely they are going to use hiragana which is used as a tool to convey the synthetic morphology of the language. This means many words that have been lifted to a serve a grammatical role in their most usual uses aren't typically written using kanji that they have.

Lyphen: Yeah, stick with a college course rather than going through some special program, at least until you are more comfortable with the language.

I've been taught that any time a verb is used as an auxilliary verb, then it is written in hiragana (which would explain the use of hiragana in ～てみ&#12427.

I love WWWJDIC if my recommendation means anything to anyone. I don't use the app but the dictionary itself is great.

 

[KtSlime]

I've been taught that any time a verb is used as an auxilliary verb, then it is written in hiragana (which would explain the use of hiragana in ～てみ&#12427.

I love WWWJDIC if my recommendation means anything to anyone. I don't use the app but the dictionary itself is great.

That certainly is a good rule of thumb, however like most things it isn't a hard rule, and sooner or later one will run across someone that has written things like 御覧に成る、て見る、and 出来る. It's good to be prepared for all occasions.

I can also think of cases where the auxiliary verb is often written using its kanji. Words that use こむ and こす specifically come to mind: 飛び込む、引っ越す.

 

[Zoe]

I love WWWJDIC if my recommendation means anything to anyone. I don't use the app but the dictionary itself is great.

I use the website all the time.

 

[345triangle]

i find WWWJDIC is good for looking up japanese-english definitions but next to useless for english-japanese, because there are simply too many entries without enough nuance to help you out as to which is the best fit.

often i'd look up stuff on WWWJDIC apps and give the phone to a japanese person and said "okay so which one of these makes sense" and 9 times out of 10 they'd be like "...i have no idea what any of these mean except the 7th one down"

 

[cntr]

Done with RTK1.

 

[KtSlime]

Done with RTK1.

&#24481;&#30446;&#20986;&#24230;&#12358; <- you should be able to read that now right?

Congrats - keep up the hard work, personally I don't use RTK, but I found many of Heisig's tips and tricks to be helpful.

 

[Fugu]

That certainly is a good rule of thumb, however like most things it isn't a hard rule, and sooner or later one will run across someone that has written things like &#24481;&#35239;&#12395;&#25104;&#12427;&#12289;&#12390;&#35211;&#12427;&#12289;and &#20986;&#26469;&#12427;. It's good to be prepared for all occasions.

I can also think of cases where the auxiliary verb is often written using its kanji. Words that use &#12371;&#12416; and &#12371;&#12377; specifically come to mind: &#39131;&#12403;&#36796;&#12416;&#12289;&#24341;&#12387;&#36234;&#12377;.

I don't think &#36796;&#12416; is an auxiliary verb in that example; I think it's just part of a semantic word, like in &#35501;&#12415;&#36796;&#12416;. I'm no grammar expert though so I could be wrong, although that's how I've always interpreted it: When you look at stuff like &#65374;&#12390;&#12415;&#12427; and &#65374;&#12390;&#12399;&#12376;&#12417;&#12427; (and &#65374;&#12390;&#12356;&#12427; and &#65374;&#12390;&#12354;&#12427; I guess, although no one would ever write those in kanji anyway) they are obviously distinct from the verb that they are modifying (such that you would not consider, say, &#39135;&#12409;&#12390;&#12415;&#12427; as one word) whereas something like &#35501;&#12415;&#36796;&#12416; is a compound word as &#36796;&#12416; is not necessarily modifying &#35501;&#12415;&#12290;Anyway, like I said, not an expert, so I would be glad to be corrected if I'm wrong.

Also, I write &#20986;&#26469;&#12427; as in &#12371;&#12392;&#12364;&#20986;&#26469;&#12427; in kanji but I don't when I'm conjugating &#12377;&#12427;.

I agree with not using WWWJDIC for English to Japanese. I remember trying to look up a suitable word for idea and getting a fair number of words that I know now would have not been contextually appropriate. One thing that I find helps if you must use it for English to Japanese is the "common words" modifier which will usually keep things a little bit less obscure.


I'm curious as to what you folks think about the JLPT. I've never written one before although I probably will do one this year. I'm not very... proficient so I likely won't be doing a very high one, but considering the vagueness of the official website it would be nice to get some information from some people who have taken it firsthand.

 

[cntr]

&#24481;&#30446;&#20986;&#24230;&#12358; <- you should be able to read that now right?

Congrats - keep up the hard work, personally I don't use RTK, but I found many of Heisig's tips and tricks to be helpful.

Thank you.

Spoiler

honorable-eye-exit-degree-u?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Thank you.

Spoiler

honorable-eye-exit-degree-u?

Omedetou

 

[KtSlime]

I don't think &#36796;&#12416; is an auxiliary verb in that example; I think it's just part of a semantic word, like in &#35501;&#12415;&#36796;&#12416;. I'm no grammar expert though so I could be wrong, although that's how I've always interpreted it: When you look at stuff like &#65374;&#12390;&#12415;&#12427; and &#65374;&#12390;&#12399;&#12376;&#12417;&#12427; (and &#65374;&#12390;&#12356;&#12427; and &#65374;&#12390;&#12354;&#12427; I guess, although no one would ever write those in kanji anyway) they are obviously distinct from the verb that they are modifying (such that you would not consider, say, &#39135;&#12409;&#12390;&#12415;&#12427; as one word) whereas something like &#35501;&#12415;&#36796;&#12416; is a compound word as &#36796;&#12416; is not necessarily modifying &#35501;&#12415;&#12290;Anyway, like I said, not an expert, so I would be glad to be corrected if I'm wrong.

Also, I write &#20986;&#26469;&#12427; as in &#12371;&#12392;&#12364;&#20986;&#26469;&#12427; in kanji but I don't when I'm conjugating &#12377;&#12427;.

I agree with not using WWWJDIC for English to Japanese. I remember trying to look up a suitable word for idea and getting a fair number of words that I know now would have not been contextually appropriate. One thing that I find helps if you must use it for English to Japanese is the "common words" modifier which will usually keep things a little bit less obscure.


I'm curious as to what you folks think about the JLPT. I've never written one before although I probably will do one this year. I'm not very... proficient so I likely won't be doing a very high one, but considering the vagueness of the official website it would be nice to get some information from some people who have taken it firsthand.

As to the JLPT, I will be taking the level 1 either this summer if I can get a flight into Japan, or this fall/winter when I can go to Seattle. So far with what I can tell of your knowledge of the language you should easily be able to do the 3 if not the level 2. There is a huge jump to level 1, and it is a bit of a pain in the ass. While they no longer have an official list of vocabulary you can get a rough idea by looking at their pasts lists. If you are familiar with the &#28450;&#26908; I'd say that JLPT level 2 is rather similar to the level 5.

As for the grammar - I can't really say I know what people mean when they say 'auxiliary verb' in regards to Japanese - I learned the language through Jordan, and she made it a strict point to never equivocate the Japanese she taught with English grammatical terminology. It is my understanding that when you pair two verbs together the second verb becomes a &#20184;&#23646;&#35486;, which I would assume could be translated to auxiliary verb, however I am not even certain of that, since the only &#26085;&#26412;&#26041;&#27861; I learned was in my classical Japanese class and the diagram I made one of my past Japanese girlfriends draw for me. :lol

Of the &#20184;&#23646;&#35486; there are the &#21161;&#21205;&#35422; and the &#21161;&#35422; (what I believe most Japanese programs refer to as particles). Anyway - fun fact - did you know that &#12390; is considered a &#21161;&#35422; in the official grammar? Strange huh, especially since in all the linguistics classes I had I was always taught that the primary difference between a particle and a declined suffix is that the particle does not cause morphological changes to the word it modifies. I suppose that is why the &#12390; ending is not taught as a particle in the Japanese programs here but rather as a declension/conjugation.

cntrational: &#12362;&#12417;&#12391;&#12392;&#12358;, yeah, the kanji is a bit strange for that one, LOL.

 

[345triangle]

Thank you.

Spoiler

honorable-eye-exit-degree-u?

well, right here is the problem with using heisig's remembering the kanji - not that this particular reading would be useful in day-to-day life - but i'd never seen it written like that before, and yet could still work it out in less than a second due to learning the readings at the same time as recognitions! i don't know anyone who's followed RTK all the way to the end of book 2, so i hope it works out; i like the idea, it just didn't really work for me. i'd still recommend his kana book to anyone, though, because it taught me hiragana & katakana in a few days each.

as for the JLPT, i took N3 last winter, passed comfortably, and am taking N2 this july (on my birthday T_T). i think it's pretty fair as a comprehension/accuracy test; given that the pass rate is like 60% or thereabouts, you can't really have excuses for failing any given level. a lot of jobs here say "at least N2/2&#32026; required", which is basically why i'm taking it, but that's like how a bunch of companies require a certain TOEIC level for new employees without it having any reflection on their actual english ability. it is what it is, basically; just a metre for objectively measurable stuff. i took N3 with some friends who i always thought were better at speaking japanese than me, but failed when i passed. similarly, i'm not really expecting to pass N2, but i bet a bunch of people who are either incredibly good at memorising stuff or from taiwan or both will pass it, despite being of a similar practical usage level to myself. it tests your passive knowledge far more than your active ability, which honestly probably works in my favour after a couple of years of living in this country and being surrounded by the language.

 

[cntr]

That was meant to be a joke.

 

[Fugu]

As to the JLPT, I will be taking the level 1 either this summer if I can get a flight into Japan, or this fall/winter when I can go to Seattle. So far with what I can tell of your knowledge of the language you should easily be able to do the 3 if not the level 2. There is a huge jump to level 1, and it is a bit of a pain in the ass. While they no longer have an official list of vocabulary you can get a rough idea by looking at their pasts lists. If you are familiar with the &#28450;&#26908; I'd say that JLPT level 2 is rather similar to the level 5.

As for the grammar - I can't really say I know what people mean when they say 'auxiliary verb' in regards to Japanese - I learned the language through Jordan, and she made it a strict point to never equivocate the Japanese she taught with English grammatical terminology. It is my understanding that when you pair two verbs together the second verb becomes a &#20184;&#23646;&#35486;, which I would assume could be translated to auxiliary verb, however I am not even certain of that, since the only &#26085;&#26412;&#26041;&#27861; I learned was in my classical Japanese class and the diagram I made one of my past Japanese girlfriends draw for me. :lol

Of the &#20184;&#23646;&#35486; there are the &#21161;&#21205;&#35422; and the &#21161;&#35422; (what I believe most Japanese programs refer to as particles). Anyway - fun fact - did you know that &#12390; is considered a &#21161;&#35422; in the official grammar? Strange huh, especially since in all the linguistics classes I had I was always taught that the primary difference between a particle and a declined suffix is that the particle does not cause morphological changes to the word it modifies. I suppose that is why the &#12390; ending is not taught as a particle in the Japanese programs here but rather as a declension/conjugation.

cntrational: &#12362;&#12417;&#12391;&#12392;&#12358;, yeah, the kanji is a bit strange for that one, LOL.

I'm confused as to why it would be taught as a &#21161;&#35422; considering that it changes depending on the verb. It seems much easier to understand it as a conjugation although at the same time it's sort of arbitrary and sticks out compared to other verb conjugations. I suppose it's an issue of familiarity more than anything.
Ironically, I learned how the term "auxiliary verb" applied to English through learning Japanese. I'm classifying an auxiliary verb as a verb that appears following a verb in the &#65374;&#12390; form that serves to abstractly modify the sentence in order to specifically preclude verbs that are made up of a noun coupled with a verb (the aforementioned &#35501;&#12415;&#36796;&#12416; or one of the other _&#36796;&#12416; verbs, as well as &#12377;&#12427; verbs) and this rule (IE the rule that I invented based on a hackneyed understanding of remedial linguistics) seems to have held up pretty well so far; you just have to ignore the part where it may not be rooted in, y'know, fact.

I have a kanji book for N4 and N5 that I completed quite awhile ago and I'm confident that I could complete a similar book for N3. But the thing is, my vocabulary is relatively weak to the point where I would probably have to study quite a bit for N3 (which is what I'm planning on taking) so I'm uncertain. I'm fairly confident with grammar (I am no longer easily confused by &#12395; nor do I cower at the sight of a long sentence -- these both used to happen, trust me) so I'm not so worried about that but the materials that they provide basically give you no indication of what to expect on the test unless you pay for a syllabus, and it will cost me a lot to ship that.

On an unrelated note, I find that you can always identify English speakers who have also studied Japanese by their use of the grammatical structure "as for _” or "as to _". They also say "about _, it/they/whatever [sentence]" a lot. Once you go &#12399; it's hard to go back.

 

[McKeeverFever]

Can anyone help me with some Japanese I want to say, I am 22 years old, I live in Dublin, Ireland, I have recently finished a degree in finance, my hobbies are jogging, reading, traveling and politics. Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[KtSlime]

Can anyone help me with some Japanese I want to say, I am 22 years old, I live in Dublin, Ireland, I have recently finished a degree in finance, my hobbies are jogging, reading, traveling and politics. Any help would be greatly appreciated

I could, but you would have to let me know who this is directed at, and what kind of tone you want...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Can anyone help me with some Japanese I want to say, I am 22 years old, I live in Dublin, Ireland, I have recently finished a degree in finance, my hobbies are jogging, reading, traveling and politics. Any help would be greatly appreciated

You're male, right?

The below should work:

Normal:
&#12300;&#31169;&#12399;&#12450;&#12452;&#12523;&#12521;&#12531;&#12489;&#12398;&#12480;&#12502;&#12522;&#12531;&#24066;&#12395;&#20303;&#12416;22&#27507;&#12398;&#30007;&#24615;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;&#36001;&#21209;&#12398;&#23554;&#25915;&#12391;&#22823;&#23398;&#12434;&#21330;&#26989;&#12375;&#12383;&#12400;&#12363;&#12426;&#12391;&#12289;&#36259;&#21619;&#12399;&#12472;&#12519;&#12462;&#12531;&#12464;&#12289;&#35501;&#26360;&#12289;&#26053;&#34892;&#12289;&#25919;&#27835;&#31561;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;&#12301;

Hiragana:
&#12300;&#12431;&#12383;&#12375;&#12399;&#12288;&#12354;&#12356;&#12427;&#12425;&#12435;&#12393;&#12398;&#12288;&#12384;&#12406;&#12426;&#12435;&#12375;&#12395;&#12288;&#12377;&#12416;&#12288;&#12395;&#12376;&#12421;&#12358;&#12395;&#12373;&#12356;&#12398;&#12288;&#12384;&#12435;&#12379;&#12356;&#12288;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;&#12374;&#12356;&#12416;&#12398;&#12288;&#12379;&#12435;&#12371;&#12358;&#12391;&#12288;&#12384;&#12356;&#12364;&#12367;&#12434;&#12288;&#12381;&#12388;&#12366;&#12423;&#12358;&#12375;&#12383;&#12400;&#12363;&#12426;&#12391;&#12289;&#12375;&#12421;&#12415;&#12399;&#12288;&#12376;&#12423;&#12366;&#12435;&#12368;&#12289;&#12393;&#12367;&#12375;&#12423;&#12289;&#12426;&#12423;&#12371;&#12358;&#12289;&#12379;&#12356;&#12376;&#12288;&#12394;&#12393;&#12288;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;&#12301;

Romaji:
"watashi wa airurando no daburin-shi ni sumu nijyuuni-sai no dansei desu. zaimu no senkou de daigaku o sotsugyou shita bakari de, shumi ha jyogingu, dokusho, ryokou, seiji nado desu."

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Would any of you recommend Japanese101 to a beginner?

http://www.japanesepod101.com/

 

[McKeeverFever]

I could, but you would have to let me know who this is directed at, and what kind of tone you want...

Thanks so much ZEFAH for that translation, and to the above quote im looking for a formal tone.

 

[KtSlime]

Thanks so much ZEFAH for that translation, and to the above quote im looking for a formal tone.

Yeah, Zefah's translation was pretty neutral distant, should work good for you.

M_Night: I haven't listened to any of their beginner stuff, I do listen to their advanced audio blog, and occasionally to their upper intermediate lessons. The quality of both of those are pretty good, especially the audio blog, the topics are really well presented. Their upper intermediate lessons occasionally surprise me with vocabulary, but quite often leave me disappointed because they teach things that in my view are pretty basic, for instance I would not consider &#36468;&#12427; (to kick) to be taught so late in the program, but whatever, organizing vocabulary can be a tricky thing, and I understand that each program has their own ideas on it.

I'd give it a shot since it's free, and at most can waste a few minutes of your time.

 

[Angry Fork]

I want to learn how to speak/understand Japanese but am worried about reading/writing. People saying how difficult it is and how long it takes and I don't really see myself needing the use of that (unless I decided I wanted to move there one day or something.) Is it normal for foreigners to only be able to speak Japanese without proficiency in reading? Is it looked down upon?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I want to learn how to speak/understand Japanese but am worried about reading/writing. People saying how difficult it is and how long it takes and I don't really see myself needing the use of that (unless I decided I wanted to move there one day or something.) Is it normal for foreigners to only be able to speak Japanese without proficiency in reading? Is it looked down upon?

Certainly not. I'd imagine it would be extremely difficult to learn how to competently speak Japanese without being able to read it unless it was your native tongue.

 

[KtSlime]

I want to learn how to speak/understand Japanese but am worried about reading/writing. People saying how difficult it is and how long it takes and I don't really see myself needing the use of that (unless I decided I wanted to move there one day or something.) Is it normal for foreigners to only be able to speak Japanese without proficiency in reading? Is it looked down upon?

Many non-native and native speakers often are better speakers than readers and better readers than writers - it is the nature of the language. That said, while the writing system is difficult, there is nothing intrinsically 'hard' about it, it simply must be memorized, and the tools that you use to memorize the written language will certainly be different than what tools you use to memorize the English written language. Since you are just learning Japanese, it will take a while to build up these tools.

Most signs in major metropolitan places have romaji writing along with their kanji, so navigation isn't all that difficult. However I think learning the written language is deeply rewarding, and beneficial to understanding the meanings of what they call jyukugo - compound kanji words that are often homophonic. For instance (simple-word) and tango (traditional holiday for boys) are both read as 'tango' - although it certainly isn't necessary to know the sound as both, the knowledge of the kanji often reinforces the memorization.

Good luck, Japanese is a very fun language to learn.

Edit: Fuuuu, my IME went apeshit on me, now I can't type in Japanese anymore - well there goes my day.

 

[Angry Fork]

Thanks for the replies, I'm gonna give reading/writing a real solid shot (using all the resources in this thread) and see if I feel like I can get a grip on it.

One more question though, particularly for speaking are there any sites/resources that separate formal from informal speech? Is there an overwhelming amount of slang/informal speech that you wouldn't be able to learn unless you lived in Japan? I'm trying to think now about how much slang/short hand English has and it's a pretty large amount, even for simple things like for example "Thank you" is the full term for that word/phrase but most people just say "Thanks". Does this kind of stuff exist in the Japanese language as well?