Support NeoGAF

[injurai]

So i'm just beginning to learn Hiragana. What is the difference between お and を. Both seem to make the "oh" sound according the this program (textfugu) that I'm going through.

 

[shanshan310]

So i'm just beginning to learn Hiragana. What is the difference between お and を. Both seem to make the "oh" sound according the this program (textfugu) that I'm going through.

The second one is actually "wo", but they pretty much sound the same. を is not used in words, its just a grammar particle.

 

[bigmit3737]

Showing off to neighbors is human nature (the nature of humanity?).

人情 is more common to be used for to have heart (feeling, consideration). It is less used for the above meaning.

I think You will encounter 人間の性（さが） more for that meaning.
隣近所に対して見栄を張るのは人間の性（さが）ですよ。

Ahh, thank you.

 

[Lindbergh]

So I'm using an Anki deck to review vocabulary, but I'm worried about some English definitions.

For example, one entry "そちら/そっち" is defined as "you, your family". Doesn't it also mean "over there"? Another is "町" which I learned as "town" but is defined as "street".

Are there some colloquialisms or alternative definitions going on here?

 

[KtSlime]

So I'm using an Anki deck to review vocabulary, but I'm worried about some English definitions.

For example, one entry "そちら/そっち" is defined as "you, your family". Doesn't it also mean "over there"? Another is "町" which I learned as "town" but is defined as "street".

Are there some colloquialisms or alternative definitions going on here?

Japanese is extremely limited in phonemes, and even further limited by the use of a syllabary. 町 and 街 are homophones, Japanese has tens of thousands of them (maybe not quite that many, but probably close). Locations, positions, ranks, roles, etc are often used to refer to soto (the out group). 貴方* (あなた, you）and 方 (かた, person）uses 方 - direction. お前* (おまえ, you) uses 前 - front. When asking who the parents of a kid are you use どこの子. どちら is a polite (less specific) form of だれ and どこ. Many shopkeeps are simply referred to by their shop they work at with honorifics - お花屋さん, おパン屋さん, etc. Sometimes the person at a reception desk is even referred to as simply 受付 (reception). Being less specific by not actually addressing the person, but their function or location is a common theme in the language.

Edit: avoid the use of * terms unless you are experienced in using them, they can be hard to use and sometimes taken as offensive

 

[Etrian Oddity]

The second one is actually "wo", but they pretty much sound the same. を is not used in words, its just a grammar particle.

Funnily enough, my Japanese professor (a Nagoya native) said most "young" Japanese like our TA (hehe) pronounce を "wrong," since most say "oh." My Jpn professor said it's supposed to be pronounced as an actual "wo," but due to grammatical laziness has become "oh."

That was the first time I'd ever heard of this phenomena, but she is a native.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Japanese is extremely limited in phonemes, and even further limited by the use of a syllabary. 町 and 街 are homophones, Japanese has tens of thousands of them (maybe not quite that many, but probably close). Locations, positions, ranks, roles, etc are often used to refer to soto (the out group). 貴方* (あなた, you）and 方 (かた, person）uses 方 - direction. お前* (おまえ, you) uses 前 - front. When asking who the parents of a kid are you use どこの子. どちら is a polite (less specific) form of だれ and どこ. Many shopkeeps are simply referred to by their shop they work at with honorifics - お花屋さん, おパン屋さん, etc. Sometimes the person at a reception desk is even referred to as simply 受付 (reception). Being less specific by not actually addressing the person, but their function or location is a common theme in the language.

Edit: avoid the use of * terms unless you are experienced in using them, they can be hard to use and sometimes taken as offensive

Just to clarify a bit, どちらさま would be a polite form of だれ, but どなた is probably the more generally accepted polite form.

 

[KtSlime]

Just to clarify a bit, どちらさま would be a polite form of だれ, but どなた is probably the more generally accepted polite form.

Yeah, sorry I got a bit hasty with my post.

 

[Lindbergh]

Well thanks for clarifying.

 

[bigmit3737]

Character A:新山部長　お約束の時間です. 先方が　お見えに
すぐ行きます.



This is from a drama, and I need help with the second sentence.
Is the second sentence something like, "The other party is soon departing to the show"?

Thanks.

 

[Gacha-pin]

So I'm using an Anki deck to review vocabulary, but I'm worried about some English definitions.

For example, one entry "そちら/そっち" is defined as "you, your family". Doesn't it also mean "over there"? Another is "町" which I learned as "town" but is defined as "street".

Are there some colloquialisms or alternative definitions going on here?

You is not a primary meaning. It just came from derivatively like a person over there (そちらにいる&#20154 --> あなた.

Japanese is extremely limited in phonemes, and even further limited by the use of a syllabary. 町 and 街 are homophones, Japanese has tens of thousands of them (maybe not quite that many, but probably close). Locations, positions, ranks, roles, etc are often used to refer to soto (the out group). 貴方* (あなた, you）and 方 (かた, person）uses 方 - direction. お前* (おまえ, you) uses 前 - front. When asking who the parents of a kid are you use どこの子. どちら is a polite (less specific) form of だれ and どこ. Many shopkeeps are simply referred to by their shop they work at with honorifics - お花屋さん, おパン屋さん, etc. Sometimes the person at a reception desk is even referred to as simply 受付 (reception). Being less specific by not actually addressing the person, but their function or location is a common theme in the language.

Edit: avoid the use of * terms unless you are experienced in using them, they can be hard to use and sometimes taken as offensive

There are some logic.
貴い（とうとい）方向にいる --> あなた (respect, 方 itself doesn't mean person)
自分の前にいる --> おまえ (rude)


As for 受付 stuff, I think it's a part of our 空気読め culture. It came from the same reason that Japanese puts less attention on singular/plural.

 

[louis89]

町 and 街 are homophones

I don't consider those to be 'homophones', just the same word written with a different kanji which gives it a different meaning. In the same way that "bag" ('a bag') and "bag" ('to put something into a bag') aren't homophones (i.e., different words that have the same sound, like "plane" and "plain"), they're the same word being used in two different ways.

Actually, true homophones are probably less common than you think, due to the fact that things like the oft-cited 紙/神 pair actually do not have the same pronunciation.

 

[Adent]

What I've been doing so far is listening to Pimsleur Japanese on my way to and from work. Also I've memorized the Hiragana and Katakan using Anki. Now I just need some advice before I start on Remembering the Kanji. How am I supposed to set up the flashcards?

Front of Flashcard

Keyword

Story

Back of Flashcard

Kanji

Is that how your supposed to set it up? Also when people say "I memorized 25 kanji a day." What do they mean by memorize? Let's say for example I'm using Anki and I review and write the Kanji until I don't have to use the "soon again" button. Should I then consider them memorized? Give me an example of how you guys did it.

 

[BuRT!]

Can someone clarify this for me? I get the gist of it but it seems a little strange still..

　さすが７月になったら、急に蒸し暑くなってきましたね。こうなると食欲も落ちてきますし、火をつかった調理がおっくうになってきます。

 

[KtSlime]

Can someone clarify this for me? I get the gist of it but it seems a little strange still..

　さすが７月になったら、急に蒸し暑くなってきましたね。こうなると食欲も落ちてきますし、火をつかった調理がおっくうになってきます。

As expected of (when it became) July, it quickly became muggy, didn't it? When like this, I start to become reluctant to cook using fire, even my appetite declines.

I suspect that 町 and 街 may be traced back to a common origin, a common concept of an area where people congregate, but as they stand now I suppose they are divergent in the minds of speakers much like 合う, and 遭う, or 話す, 離す, or 着く and 突く. But since I am not a native speaker, it is really hard to get a good picture of how they view the language. I am using homophone to mean words that simply sound alike. I would never make this statement about 橋 and 箸 which I do not view as having the same sound.

BTW: Plain and plane are cognates, both deriving from the Latin planus.

 

[BuRT!]

As expected of (when it became) July, it quickly became muggy, didn't it? When like this, I start to become reluctant to cook using fire, even my appetite declines.

Thank you so much! &D

 

[Adent]

What I've been doing so far is listening to Pimsleur Japanese on my way to and from work. Also I've memorized the Hiragana and Katakan using Anki. Now I just need some advice before I start on Remembering the Kanji. How am I supposed to set up the flashcards?

Front of Flashcard

Keyword

Story

Back of Flashcard

Kanji

Is that how your supposed to set it up? Also when people say "I memorized 25 kanji a day." What do they mean by memorize? Let's say for example I'm using Anki and I review and write the Kanji until I don't have to use the "soon again" button. Should I then consider them memorized? Give me an example of how you guys did it.

Anyone else studying Kanji?

 

[bigmit3737]

”千絵は純粋っつうか
男慣れしてねぇっつうか→


だから　もし　また　お前が
５股とか６股とか→


いいかげんなことしたら
あいつ　本気で傷つくだろうし。”


What　is　the　股　mean in this context? In this dialogue, the character speaking is to trying to find out if the character he's speaking to is serious about a girl.

 

[Zoe]

It's being used as a counter.

 

[bigmit3737]

It's being used as a counter.

5-6 careless/irresponsible acts/deeds?


Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

”千絵は純粋っつうか
男慣れしてねぇっつうか→


だから　もし　また　お前が
５股とか６股とか→


いいかげんなことしたら
あいつ　本気で傷つくだろうし。”


What　is　the　股　mean in this context? In this dialogue, the character speaking is to trying to find out if the character he's speaking to is serious about a girl.

It's a counter for people you're dating/intimate with. You'd only ever use it in the context of cheating on one's significant other/having multiple partners.

The common one you'll hear is 二股（ふたまた）, and you can add numbers from there depending on how many "partners on the side" the person has.

 

[bigmit3737]

It's a counter for people you're dating/intimate with. You'd only ever use it in the context of cheating on one's significant other/having multiple partners.

The common one you'll hear is 二股（ふたまた）, and you can add numbers from there depending on how many "partners on the side" the person has.

Thank you so much. I understand now.

 

[LogicStep]

So what is the best way to learn kanji and vocabulary in general? And about the flash card thing on the OP, has anyone uploaded their set of cards? Setting them up is what kinda sucks about the whole idea. I already know all katakana and hiragana and some vocabulary but I really need to learn a LOT more vocabulary. Also, any way to learn how you're supposed to use the vocabulary you know to make sentences?

I would be fine with just learning to speak it and understand it. Reading it can come later if needed.

 

[Adent]

So what is the best way to learn kanji and vocabulary in general? And about the flash card thing on the OP, has anyone uploaded their set of cards? Setting them up is what kinda sucks about the whole idea. I already know all katakana and hiragana and some vocabulary but I really need to learn a LOT more vocabulary. Also, any way to learn how you're supposed to use the vocabulary you know to make sentences?

I would be fine with just learning to speak it and understand it. Reading it can come later if needed.

I'll give you the gist of the method I'm using to learn Japanese.

1. Immersion - Do as many things in Japanese as possible. Watch anime without subtitles. Have Japanese language playing in the background. Listen to Japanese music in the car. I listen to Pimsleur Japanese in the car though.

2. Learn Hiragana and Katakana so you don't have to read romaji. You did that so your good.

3. Learn Kanji using Remembering the Kanji by James Heisig and Anki. Learn all 3000 meanings and writings. Don't worry about how to read them that comes later.

4. Go back to step one and step it up by reading Manga and watching more Japanese media. When you hear or see a word you want to know look it up in make a sentence with it. You can copy out a sentence from the dictionary itself. Put that sentence into anki and review it by reading it until you know it perfectly. That includes being able to recognize and read the kanji in the sentence.

Just do those steps and you should be fluent in no time. Also you can throw anything else in there that you want like studying text books. But basically keep it fun. If it's easy to do you'll do it. If you make yourself memorize vocabulary just to memorize it you'll probably put it off and never do it.

 

[bigmit3737]

尻尾　振っちゃって


Can someone explain this phrase please?

Thank you

Oops here is the second part for context:

みっともない

 

[KtSlime]

尻尾　振っちゃって


Can someone explain this phrase please?

Thank you

Oops here is the second part for context:

みっともない

What are you watching?

The first part is "tail ended up waging". Second part is "it is unsightly/indecent".

 

[bigmit3737]

What are you watching?

The first part is "tail ended up waging". Second part is "it is unsightly/indecent".

The new GTO. =)

Thanks.

 

[RoyalFool]

Any tips for staying motivated? I used to have a burning passion to learn Japanese but lately the apathy has really kicked in and after 15 minutes of flash cards.. I somehow always end up back on the internet looking at funny pictures.

Tried spending a silly amount of money buying various things to try to motivate me, games, learning materials - even Japanese food. But, then I just feel even more guilty for not being able to focus on studying.

I'm wondering if it's because I'm using a flash card heavy approach - but I don't feel like watching anime without subs really counts as studying unfortunately, and all the text books I used to enjoy (Genki II, Busy People etc) are, well, too easy.

Any tips welcome

 

[bigmit3737]

いつまでも
親のスネかじってないで→

早く自立しないと　一生独身よ


I specifically need help with this portion, "親のスネかじってないで".

What does this phrase mean?

 

[RoyalFool]

Without being dependent on their parents.. Maybe, sorry that's a tricky one

 

[KtSlime]

いつまでも
親のスネかじってないで→

早く自立しないと　一生独身よ


I specifically need help with this portion, "親のスネかじってないで".

What does this phrase mean?

Stop always sponging off your parents. If you don't hurry up and be independent you will be single your whole life.

I can't quite tell since I can't hear, but I suspect that part was a command. Probably a female giving advice? It could also be interpreted as "without sponging off your parents", but it doesn't seem to fit the context.

Without being dependent on their parents.. Maybe, sorry that's a tricky one

Yeah, that's pretty close on I'd say. I suspect that we get the term "ankle-biter" from 臑かじる which is to "nibble on a leg" by way of Australia, but idioms are hard to follow at times.

Oh and to answer your question: I've gotten pretty bad at studying as of late too. But I still spend probably about 2 hours a week watching or reading. I recommend that if you like watching anime without the subs, to keep a dictionary with you and try to find 2 or 3 words or phrases you don't know and look them up per episode. Count that as studying. We all (most?) are learning this language for fun, and if it doesn't stay fun you won't want to keep learning it. Try to keep it easy, as long as you are doing something in the language a couple times a week you should be good.

 

[LeroyPantwether]

Any tips for staying motivated? I used to have a burning passion to learn Japanese but lately the apathy has really kicked in and after 15 minutes of flash cards.. I somehow always end up back on the internet looking at funny pictures.

Tried spending a silly amount of money buying various things to try to motivate me, games, learning materials - even Japanese food. But, then I just feel even more guilty for not being able to focus on studying.

I'm wondering if it's because I'm using a flash card heavy approach - but I don't feel like watching anime without subs really counts as studying unfortunately, and all the text books I used to enjoy (Genki II, Busy People etc) are, well, too easy.

Any tips welcome

My advice if you have not done so already, get a language partner. A native speaker to skype with and write emails to. While my japanese still stinks , not giving up on my commitment to my partner makes it easy to stay motivated. Plus it is a good oppurtunity to make some pretty cool friends.

 

[bigmit3737]

Stop always sponging off your parents. If you don't hurry up and be independent you will be single your whole life.

I can't quite tell since I can't hear, but I suspect that part was a command. Probably a female giving advice? It could also be interpreted as "without sponging off your parents", but it doesn't seem to fit the context.



Yeah, that's pretty close on I'd say. I suspect that we get the term "ankle-biter" from 臑かじる which is to "nibble on a leg" by way of Australia, but idioms are hard to follow at times.

Thank you, so it literally does mean Ankle bitter/chewer.
And yeah, it was actually a Mom speaking with her son, so she was giving a command.

 

[RoyalFool]

My advice if you have not done so already, get a language partner. A native speaker to skype with and write emails to. While my japanese still stinks , not giving up on my commitment to my partner makes it easy to stay motivated. Plus it is a good oppurtunity to make some pretty cool friends.

Oh, that's a good idea - but any tips as to how I can find one?

 

[LeroyPantwether]

Oh, that's a good idea - but any tips as to how I can find one?

conversationexchange.com

make a profile

it is all free and easy

 

[beanman25]

Bought myself flashcards to practice with. I just can't work with Anki for some reason. Physical flash cards will hopefully work better!

 

[Adamm]

conversationexchange.com

make a profile

it is all free and easy

Ive seen this site mention a few times (in this thread i think?)

But I'm always worried about signing up, because my Japanese is so poor im not sure how much use it would be.
Whats your experience with the site?

 

[LeroyPantwether]

Ive seen this site mention a few times (in this thread i think?)

But I'm always worried about signing up, because my Japanese is so poor im not sure how much use it would be.
Whats your experience with the site?

My experience has been great with the site. In my opinion you have no reason to be worried about signing up. There are tons of people ( of all different skill levels) to choose from and it is as simple as sending a message. Also, depending on where you live, there are search filters to find a native speaker near you to meet for face to face conversations. I live in Phoenix Az , so I have had no such luck with that. My language partner lives in Osaka.

Do not be nervous about your Japanese skill level either. It should be noted that you will be expected to be proficient in your native tounge. The website is a two way street. The idea is to give just as much help as you recieve.Your partner will appreciate your help just as much as you will appreciate the help they give you. Though you probably should be able to at least read katakana and hiragana, would be kind of strange to ask your partner to use romaji.

Basically , the way we study is simply by writing long emails every week. We then correct eachother's writing. On the weekend we have conversations on Skype, and go over what we learned in our emails. Simple, but very helpful. DO IT

 

[mattp]

anyone who can read japanese know what this says? haha
i found it w/ a few things that accidentally got packed away that my friend, who lives in japan, brought me when he visited 2 years ago

it looks like it expired in 2011 and is 55% alcohol?
should i just drink it

 

[KtSlime]

anyone who can read japanese know what this says? haha
i found it w/ a few things that accidentally got packed away that my friend, who lives in japan, brought me when he visited 2 years ago



it looks like it expired in 2011 and is 55% alcohol?
should i just drink it

It says 黒龍 (kokuryuu) 純米吟醸 (jyunmai ginjyou), Black dragon pure rice half milled brew. Doesn't translate very well, but basically it's saying it is a good quality sake made with only the very centers of the rice grain.

I would drink it.

 

[Mandoric]

anyone who can read japanese know what this says? haha
i found it w/ a few things that accidentally got packed away that my friend, who lives in japan, brought me when he visited 2 years ago



it looks like it expired in 2011 and is 55% alcohol?
should i just drink it

Kokuryu's "Wabisuke" junmai-ginjo. The vintage is late November 2010, and it's 30 proof.

Oh, and it says "keep chilled". You should probably cook with it, but taking a sip to see how it fared wouldn't kill you.

 

[marvelharvey]

Note to self: when everyone at work is talking about ブレスト they mean brainstorming, not breasts.

I was all excited for a moment.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Note to self: when everyone at work is talking about ブレスト they mean brainstorming, not breasts.

I was all excited for a moment.

Ha! Good stuff.

 

[Shirokun]

I'm wondering how you J-Gaf folks go about keeping up with your studies. I've been back in Japan for a year now, and while my Japanese has objectively improved, it still feels woefully inadequate. I feel like I've hit an insurmountable wall with my ability(probably 2kyuu-ish). I can hold some conversations well, but when I try to explain or discuss some things, it feels like my ability goes to that of a two year old.

Anyone have a good system for steady improvement that's worked for them? Not just in terms of reading(which I can generally do decently) but actual communication?

On a side note, I'm sure this has been asked countless times, but any good Japanese discussion forums out there that don't use the horrible 2channel 掲示板 format(also interesting blogs or anything)? I've been trying to get away from Neogaf for a while to keep things in Japanese, but it's been hard finding anything that doesn't give me a headache to read/navigate.

 

[mattp]

Kokuryu's "Wabisuke" junmai-ginjo. The vintage is late November 2010, and it's 30 proof.

Oh, and it says "keep chilled". You should probably cook with it, but taking a sip to see how it fared wouldn't kill you.

well...its been in a closet for like 2 years haha. thats not exactly chilled
whatever, im gonna try it anyway. it cant hurt me...i think


edit: thanks guys

 

[Adamm]

My experience has been great with the site. In my opinion you have no reason to be worried about signing up. There are tons of people ( of all different skill levels) to choose from and it is as simple as sending a message. Also, depending on where you live, there are search filters to find a native speaker near you to meet for face to face conversations. I live in Phoenix Az , so I have had no such luck with that. My language partner lives in Osaka.

Do not be nervous about your Japanese skill level either. It should be noted that you will be expected to be proficient in your native tounge. The website is a two way street. The idea is to give just as much help as you recieve.Your partner will appreciate your help just as much as you will appreciate the help they give you. Though you probably should be able to at least read katakana and hiragana, would be kind of strange to ask your partner to use romaji.

Basically , the way we study is simply by writing long emails every week. We then correct eachother's writing. On the weekend we have conversations on Skype, and go over what we learned in our emails. Simple, but very helpful. DO IT

Cool, might give it a try then. Thanks!

 

[bigmit3737]

世の中　理不尽な事は
大概　飲み込まないとならんが
お前に　どうしても譲れない事が
あるというなら　やってみろ。


I need help with this sentence.
Context: Char A's boss is giving him advice regarding certain events that just occurred.
Char A had just made a phone call, calling out someone who did terrible things.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

世の中　理不尽な事は
大概　飲み込まないとならんが
お前に　どうしても譲れない事が
あるというなら　やってみろ。


I need help with this sentence.
Context: Char A's boss is giving him advice regarding certain events that just occurred.
Char A had just made a phone call, calling out someone who did terrible things.

Your context is a bit too vague to be of help, but here's a quick interpretation of that line:

"There's a lot of bullshit in this world that you just have to accept, but if there's something you just can't let slide, then go for it."

 

[Cranzor]

I have a basic question that I can't find the answer to. I don't know much about the Japanese language so bear with me. I understand that katakana is used for foreign words, so if you know the syllables of the characters of katakana then you can often understand the words. Hiragana works in the same way, as in one character represents a syllable. But hiragana is used for Japanese words. I don't understand how one understands the actual meaning behind the combination of syllables. For example, if I came across すし and know that it says "sushi", how am I supposed to know that sushi is a Japanese food? Do you have to know kanji before being able to understand sentences in hiragana?

I haven't seen anyone talking about actually understanding a sentence when they read hiragana. I am most likely missing something basic. Sorry for the dumb question.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I have a basic question that I can't find the answer to. I don't know much about the Japanese language so bear with me. I understand that katakana is used for foreign words, so if you know the syllables of the characters of katakana then you can often understand the words. Hiragana works in the same way, as in one character represents a syllable. But hiragana is used for Japanese words. I don't understand how one understands the actual meaning behind the combination of syllables. For example, if I came across すし and know that it says "sushi", how am I supposed to know that sushi is a Japanese food? Do you have to know kanji before being able to understand sentences in hiragana?

I haven't seen anyone talking about actually understanding a sentence when they read hiragana. I am most likely missing something basic. Sorry for the dumb question.

You have to learn some vocabulary before you will be able to understand a sentence, yes.