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The Black Culture Thread |OT13| Kimba is the New Blacked

Black Bernie supporter and occasional volunteer here, can you give me a rundown of them?
Because after a year of reading them while browsing this site I sincerely don't get them, or understand why they hold any legitimacy aside from when they're policy disagreements/differences in economic ideology.
Edit:(just preemptively saying that I don't think their are any major differences between the black and white electorate when it comes to being informed)


1) No one likes being told that they are dumb, uninformed, or clueless. Especially when one /has/ looked at Bernie's record and platform and just don't agree with the Bernie supporters.
2) No one likes being insulted and called slurs for not supporting Sanders.
3) No one likes the assumption that if you don't like Sanders, you're obviously a "Shrillary" supporter.

And sure, this may be just a small group of Bernie supporters who have harassed blacks, women, and black women on social media platforms. But they are loud and persistent. And when most of Sanders' rallies are a sea of white, it is easy to assume that those people are in agreement with the "BernieBros" (And yes, this ends up erasing PoC Bernie supporters like yourself).

Please see how Sanders supporters have gone after the BLM movement and BLM supporters. Those young women who interrupted the Seattle rally were called everything but a child of God. Bernie was trying to pull Clinton leftward, and BLM decided to pull everyone towards social justice. And some Bernie supporters don't like how they stole his thunder.
 

Jay-Hova

Banned
1) No one likes being told that they are dumb, uninformed, or clueless. Especially when one /has/ looked at Bernie's record and platform and just don't agree with the Bernie supporters.
2) No one likes being insulted and called slurs for not supporting Sanders.
3) No one likes the assumption that if you don't like Sanders, you're obviously a "Shrillary" supporter.

And sure, this may be just a small group of Bernie supporters who have harassed blacks, women, and black women on social media platforms. But they are loud and persistent. And when most of Sanders' rallies are a sea of white, it is easy to assume that those people are in agreement with the "BernieBros" (And yes, this ends up erasing PoC Bernie supporters like yourself).

Please see how Sanders supporters have gone after the BLM movement and BLM supporters. Those young women who interrupted the Seattle rally were called everything but a child of God. Bernie was trying to pull Clinton leftward, and BLM decided to pull everyone towards social justice. And some Bernie supporters don't like how they stole his thunder.
Can you detail this harassment for me? Because what I saw during all these incidents I personally wouldn't classify as harassment, i'd classify it as over enthusiasm that leads to incredibly annoying badgering and an experience/perception gap between genders/race that causes them to make seemingly innocuous comments that other people may find offensive such as when they act as though Killer Mike is the king of black people or badger about the MLK thing.
And I can see how/why that's an issue for a lot of people, but personally whenever I'm faced with something like that I recognize whether the intent was malicious or not, and why they would say what they said, and I try to tell them how they should act the next time they're faced with a minority voter.
Of course this isn't to say Bernie doesn't have racist or sexist supporters, every candidate does, I guess I just don't appreciate the singling out the white men in this campaign have faced with "bernie bro".
Also can you give me an example of the slur slinging and how widespread it is? Because I sincerely haven't seen it.
And don't have anything to say on that last point, except that it can be irritating to see someone who doesn't support Bernie Sanders because of incredibly slight differences in perspective, that act as though they're massive gaps and then refuse to vote as if they're ever going to find a candidate close to what the want.
And on the paragraphs, I've really never minded and still don't mind how white Bernie's rallies are, especially considering the population differences, and the fact that he's not preaching any racially inflammatory rhetoric so it's no biggie to me, it's just a matter of hen/if minority voters catch onto how great Sanders is(which I believe a lot have), and it's incredibly absurd imo that people preach that "bernie bro" nonsense as if it's any different than Hilary's base or a lot of the people who voted for Obama back in 08 and then turned around saying black people can't complain anymore, because whether or not that's your intention that's what it implies and it hurts Bernie.
Also about "bernie bro's" erasing PoC supporters like myself, I hate that term once again because it's only in reference to white males, when i've spoken too ton's of black men who believe in the apparent "Bernie bro" rhetoric whether that's in reference to black people/the "black vote" or in reference to women, and because I also know white women and minority women who are abstaining from voting for Hilary if Bernie wins, but that's also been painted as a "bernie bro" thing (i'm voting for Hilary if Bernie loses btw).
Which isn't to say that for both of those that's the majority because I know those are more likely to be white male opinions, but it is to say you can't just box the opinions down in one group like that, especially when it pushes out some of the people you're trying to defend even if you disagree with them, hell i've seen people on here claim it's "bernie-bro" to call Hilary corporate which is absurd.
And on the BLM thing, i'll come clean with what I called them when they stormed his rally and what I believe now.
I called the girls who stormed his rally race-baiting fools and I still believe it.
I don't think they were fools because they stormed the rally, think they were fools because rather than contact Sanders to talk first they decided to harass him, when if they met and they didnt like it or he refused, then they could storm his rally, and I believe that because I believe Sanders is the best candidate on racial issues and by doing something like that they risked hurting his campaign which it's done among some people.
I also thought they were fools because on the stage Sanders tried to peacefully talk to one of them but he was shouted down and ignored by her, and then he had to leave the stage, and because they had no sense of optics/good pr for how they were acting, something I believe is important for any movement (and something as we've seen some Bernie supporters lack).
And I think she was"race-baiting" because rather than trying to start a reasonable discourse like an activist should do, she posted herself drinking water in a shirt that said white tears, and that was one of the few times I ever called something "race-baiting" because it's always used inappropriately by white people in response to any grievance with race.
So I didn't support them in that incident, and just like there were many people who did, there were many black people in my circles who did not support the action of BLM, and I don't believe our opinions are discounted because we aren't white men saying it, even if it isn't positive to people.
(of course none of us were saying #alllivesmatter)
Thank's for the response.
 

double jump

you haven't lived until a random little kid ask you "how do you make love".
that wall of text was unnecessary and I'm mad at myself for reading through it.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Can you detail this harassment for me? Because what I saw during all these incidents I personally wouldn't classify as harassment, i'd classify it as over enthusiasm

*snip*
The aggression and harassment is real; I think there was an article posted a few pages back which detailed how Sanders campaign twice acknowledged issues with certain supporters before Bernie himself made a statement denouncing the people who were going to ridiculous lengths to harass those who disagreed or positioned themselves as having anything but a positive agreement with Sanders.

And I respect that Sanders did that. But I still feel an undercurrent or tone from supporters and even your post like "if you don't vote for him you're just wrong". I just can't agree with that. We'll see if he wins the nomination or not.

Bernie did not handle Black Lives Matter well during that incident. But I think it was less about him than BLM itself. Which is interesting because you speak about it in context of being more angry that it damaged his campaign rather than the fact that black Americans have to do this in order to have the rest of the country pay attention and talk about problems they face.
 
Bernie did not handle Black Lives Matter well during that incident. But I think it was less about him than BLM itself. Which is interesting because you speak about it in context of being more angry that it damaged his campaign rather than the fact that black Americans have to do this in order to have the rest of the country pay attention and talk about problems they face.

What would have been a better way of handling it?

I thought he handled it fine.
 

ChamplooJones

Formerly Momotaro
Please add line breaks to your posts next time. Christ that was a hard read. By the way, using words like "race-baiting" to describe what happened in Seattle? Nigga what?!

Perhaps you should be more mad at the fact that your candidate walked the fuck off stage.
 

Infinite

Member
What would have been a better way of handling it?

I thought he handled it fine.
At netroots he handled it bad like really bad. At the Seattle protest idk what he could of done differently to make things better and I was more disappointed with the way his crowd reacted than his actions.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
What would have been a better way of handling it?

I thought he handled it fine.
He wasn't able to open a dialogue with Marissa or Mara, and simple cancelled his appearance. I'm not saying it wasn't a difficult situation or that things weren't tense.

But from what I saw his response was to just bail until his campaign could draft a good press release. Is it too me to expect a potential president of the United States to have a better response to the statement "Black Lives Matter"? You're telling me someone who "marched with MLK" couldn't understand or open a dialogue with two black women who were speaking out for their brothers and sisters in a city that likes to pretend they are on the forefront of progressive thinking while continuing to marginalize many of their minority population?

I agree with the posts above in that I think most of my disagreement is with the outrage of his supporters and their subsequent nasty attitude that came out after.
 
You think he handled what happened at Netroots fine?

Yeah?

They took the stage and wanted to speak correct?

Bernie let them speak?

Getting into a heated discussion with them would have been the wrong move, especially when it's live and in front of so many people.

Telling them no, you can't speak and ignoring them would have made Bernie look like he doesn't care.

Simply standing to the side was the right choice. It wasn't his event and the protest was clearly a surprise on stage to everyone.

I'm just curious as to why everyone thinks it was handled badly... And what they would do differently with their ability to have hindsight.
 

Malyse

Member
Oh let's see where this goes.
cinematic-wall-crawler-ranking-the-spider-man-movies-where-does-the-amazing-spider-man-538773.jpg

How exciting.
 

Infinite

Member
Yeah?

They took the stage and wanted to speak correct?

Bernie let them speak?

Getting into a heated discussion with them would have been the wrong move, especially when it's live and in front of so many people.

Telling them no, you can't speak and ignoring them would have made Bernie look like he doesn't care.

Simply standing to the side was the right choice. It wasn't his event and the protest was clearly a surprise on stage to everyone.

I'm just curious as to why everyone thinks it was handled badly... And what they would do differently with their ability to have hindsight.
You're mixing up what happened at netroots which is a community organized event, with what happened at Sander's own rally in Seattle. At netroots instead of engaging he left and cancelled all interviews he promised to do. That wasn't good look to me.
 
Yeah?

They took the stage and wanted to speak correct?

Bernie let them speak?

Getting into a heated discussion with them would have been the wrong move, especially when it's live and in front of so many people.

Telling them no, you can't speak and ignoring them would have made Bernie look like he doesn't care.

Simply standing to the side was the right choice. It wasn't his event and the protest was clearly a surprise on stage to everyone.

I'm just curious as to why everyone thinks it was handled badly... And what they would do differently with their ability to have hindsight.

I said what happened at Netroots. I think you are confusing 2 seperate events.
 
You're mixing up what happened at netroots which is a community organized event, with what happened at Sander's own rally in Seattle. At netroots instead of engaging he left and cancelled all interviews he promised to do. That wasn't good look to me.

Both took place in Seattle correct?

Didn't know about the interviews thing. That is probably a poor decision.
 

Kreed

Member
Yeah?

They took the stage and wanted to speak correct?

Bernie let them speak?

Getting into a heated discussion with them would have been the wrong move, especially when it's live and in front of so many people.

Telling them no, you can't speak and ignoring them would have made Bernie look like he doesn't care.

Simply standing to the side was the right choice. It wasn't his event and the protest was clearly a surprise on stage to everyone.

I'm just curious as to why everyone thinks it was handled badly... And what they would do differently with their ability to have hindsight.

Why is this immediately what you go to as the only solution? Obama, Hilary, even Trump have people yelling at them all the time and they don't get into shouting matches nor do they cower in fear in the fetal position and let protestors take over the stage. They are charismatic and know how to talk and adjust to hecklers and protestors trying to hijack their messages. And let's not forget that Hilary had these same protesters show up at her events around the same time that video of Bernie getting clowned circulated the internet. But no one talks much about that since they never even reached the stage due to Hilary not having security guards from Craig's list at her events.
 

akira28

Member
jay hova about to turn *this* black bernie supporter into a shillary man.

hov, I'm seruously praying to god you're not campaigning for Bernie because if you are, my dude is surely going to LOSE.

please, stop even admitting that you know who he is. Please.

please.

dammit. god dammit.
 
Why is this immediately what you go to as the only solution? Obama, Hilary, even Trump have people yelling at them all the time and they don't get into shouting matches nor do they cower in fear in the fetal position and let protestors take over the stage. They are charismatic and know how to talk and adjust to hecklers and protestors trying to hijack their messages. And let's not forget that Hilary had these same protesters show up at her events around the same time that video of Bernie getting clowned circulated the internet. But no one talks much about that since they never even reached the stage due to Hilary not having security guards from Craig's list at her events.


It wasn't the only solution I went to?
 
Jay-Hova.

I know podcasters that are getting attacked and trolled relentlessly from netroots to this very day because of Bernie Sanders.

Not just about podcasters, but journalists. Even by other journalists. Ta-Nehisi Coates anyone?

Folks are trying to bring down his reputation just because he's decided to take Bernie to task for his "class over race" style campaigning.


It's very real. The harassment is very real.


And I'm not even going to start with the Seattle stuff.
 

Infinite

Member
Also after gamer-gate I'm really surprised Bernie supporters on Neogaf of all places are dismissing the harassment people are receiving from the Bernie Bros.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
The bottom line for me is that it isn't the voter responsibility to list and explain all the time why they aren't necessarily on board with a campaign. It's the candidate and campaign that should be persuading and explaining why they should be supported.

Yet somehow this is opposite when it comes to Internet conversations about Bernie Sanders campaign.
 

Malyse

Member
Guess he went back to his main account.

-----

God, I miss Xenosaga.

Nintendo is buddy buddy with Bamco now, right? What with Smash and all?
Let's get a NX Xeno Remaster going. I mean, Kossy and Fiora are friends now anyway, so let's do it.

Hell, I will even accept it in the Xenoblade X engine if that's how it has to be.
 

Malyse

Member
The bottom line for me is that it isn't the voter responsibility to list and explain all the time why they aren't necessarily on board with a campaign. It's the candidate and campaign that should be persuading and explaining why they should be supported.

Yet somehow this is opposite when it comes to Internet conversations about Bernie Sanders campaign.

I've said it before but Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump (and their fanbases by extension) are different sides of the same coin. Neither one has a realistic concept of what the fuck the president can actually do, neither one for fulfill a tenth of what they are saying they could, both fall apart when someone stops play softball and presses them, and I'm not convinced either actually cares about minorities. I think Bernie thinks he does care but is clueless and I think Trump legit gives no fucks whatsoever. Both of them have extremely vocal supporters that seem to take no small amount of pleasure in shouting down minority issues, though from different angles: Berniebros go with a covert "Marched with MLK" racism while Trumpers go with a "get out my country, build a wall, track the Muslims" overt racism. And both of them are legitimately charismatic, enough so that a good number of people can't see past the MASSIVE PROBLEMS each brings to the table.

200_s.gif
 

ApharmdX

Banned
Jay-Hova.

I know podcasters that are getting attacked and trolled relentlessly from netroots to this very day because of Bernie Sanders.

Not just about podcasters, but journalists. Even by other journalists. Ta-Nehisi Coates anyone?

Folks are trying to bring down his reputation just because he's decided to take Bernie to task for his "class over race" style campaigning.


It's very real. The harassment is very real.


And I'm not even going to start with the Seattle stuff.

Coates has some good points re: Sanders and his "one-size-fits-all economic justice" approach to racial problems, but I don't know, man. It feels sometimes like a combination "perfect is the enemy of good" and of the usual tactic of liberals eating our own. At this point it's all well and good, we're in the primaries, which is an adversarial process, but in the general election I hope the left lines up behind the nominee, be that Hillary or Bernie. There's so much at stake. The GOP nominees are a horror movie on race.
 
Yes it was? That's the only solution you provided? You read your own post that I quoted? Yeah? Are you going to address the rest of my post? No? Then keep it moving?

Literally, right below it is the other option I provided.

Telling them no, you can't speak and ignoring them would have made Bernie look like he doesn't care.

I just don't see a solution where a meaningful discussion could take place at the Seattle rally when it was already heated in the first place. Could that have been a possibility? Sure. But I don't think anyone without hindsight would have that immediate reaction while being present in that situation.

In any case I asked what another solution would be, and other helpful posters provided me with such.
 

Kreed

Member
Literally, right below it is the other option I provided.



I just don't see a solution where a meaningful discussion could take place at the Seattle rally when it was already heated in the first place. Could that have been a possibility? Sure. But I don't think anyone without hindsight would have that immediate reaction while being present in that situation.

In any case I asked what another solution would be, and other helpful posters provided me with such.

Ignoring people isn't a solution, it's ignoring the problem. Other than yelling at people and what Bernie chose, those are the only actual avenues of resolving the conflict that you alluded to in your post, and I explained to you that that isn't the case and that more capable candidates deal with what Bernie dealt with all the time and found other BETTER avenues that don't turn into social media fodder.
 
I've said it before but Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump (and their fanbases by extension) are different sides of the same coin. Neither one has a realistic concept of what the fuck the president can actually do, neither one for fulfill a tenth of what they are saying they could, both fall apart when someone stops play softball and presses them, and I'm not convinced either actually cares about minorities. I think Bernie thinks he does care but is clueless and I think Trump legit gives no fucks whatsoever. Both of them have extremely vocal supporters that seem to take no small amount of pleasure in shouting down minority issues, though from different angles: Berniebros go with a covert "Marched with MLK" racism while Trumpers go with a "get out my country, build a wall, track the Muslims" overt racism. And both of them are legitimately charismatic, enough so that a good number of people can't see past the MASSIVE PROBLEMS each brings to the table.

200_s.gif

As Bernie supporter... Shock I know... I'm not voting for Bernie because I think he can get those things done. I am voting for him because he comes from a strong point... these are our demands... and we want them. Then when negotiations occur we'll hopefully get something that we do want in there... instead of starting, at what I consider, a weak point with Hilary. Let's expand on ACA... Okay, what does that mean exactly? And really you're going into the negotiation room with that?

Also I mean who else is closer inline with what I want? My choice is Bernie who is left leaning (and I don't agree that we need Single Payer or on every issue with him.) But he's the only one saying anything substantial. If there were another Democratic or strong Independent out there actually putting forth other Liberal ideas and plans I would be voting for them probably.

Right now my choices as a Liberal are Hilary who wants to not rock the boat and just coast through the possible next 8 years... Or Bernie Sanders who is incredibly idealistic.

Think I'll stick with the idealistic one.
 
I've said it before but Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump (and their fanbases by extension) are different sides of the same coin. Neither one has a realistic concept of what the fuck the president can actually do, neither one for fulfill a tenth of what they are saying they could, both fall apart when someone stops play softball and presses them, and I'm not convinced either actually cares about minorities. I think Bernie thinks he does care but is clueless and I think Trump legit gives no fucks whatsoever. Both of them have extremely vocal supporters that seem to take no small amount of pleasure in shouting down minority issues, though from different angles: Berniebros go with a covert "Marched with MLK" racism while Trumpers go with a "get out my country, build a wall, track the Muslims" overt racism. And both of them are legitimately charismatic, enough so that a good number of people can't see past the MASSIVE PROBLEMS each brings to the table.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpKRpvezPEjVyAo/200_s.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

My original misconception was thinking that this was the main thing most "minority" voters didn't like about him. I've since learned the other more pressing issues. Sad to see the ball dropped on his end but what can you do. I'm still really on the fence with Hilary but know which of the parties gets my vote regardless.

Never really cared much for politics until recently so pardon my ignorance.
 
Ignoring people isn't a solution, it's ignoring the problem. Other than yelling at people and what Bernie chose, those are the only actual avenues of resolving the conflict that you alluded to in your post, and I explained to you that that isn't the case and that more capable candidates deal with what Bernie dealt with all the time and found other BETTER avenues that don't turn into social media fodder.

It just might be my ignorance on the subject.

But what other events has people coming up and taking the mic stand over? And they handled it in better ways?
 
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