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The Black Culture Thread

D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Simmons story > Jay story. all day long.

was just watching some of the old Def Poetry Jam episodes yesterday. And we all know how instrumental Def Comedy Jam was for many of our favorite comedians today.
 
L

Lebron

Member
MWS Natural said:
I disagree and I wasn't aware Russel Simmons was an ex drug dealer.
Click to expand...
Russell sold drugs too. May want to read up on it.

edit: Unless you were saying you were surprised Russell sold too. Then my mistake.
 
D

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
MWS Natural said:
I don't blame him...no one has ever done what Jay has in the rap game to the extent he has. To come from absolute nothing to one of the richest people on the world. Even though I'm not a huge Jay fan he definitely has a lot of shit to brag about.
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To achieve what Jay has, you ego has to be that big. That ego is what drives you to not settle for less than the best. Not to mention bragging about what you have (or what you want people to think you have) has been in rap forever. It was the basis for many of the early songs. I have no problem with Jay bragging in many of his songs.

I think that some put too much of a microscope on rap lyrics. I don't look for a deep meaning from a rapper. I certainly wouldn't let the absence of a deep meaning stop my enjoyment of a song. I understand that some can't enjoy song about nothing or about something trivial, but that just isn't me.
 
S

sooperkool

Member
MWS Natural said:
I disagree and I wasn't aware Russel Simmons was an ex drug dealer.
Click to expand...


OK.

50 Cent & Diddy

Both came from nothing and both are worth more than J. 50 sold plenty of drugs and Diddy, didn't. Take your pick, as was said earlier nothing J did is or was unique to hip-hop. Stop listening to his hype and lyrics.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
sooperkool said:
OK.

50 Cent & Diddy

Both came from nothing and both are worth more than J. 50 sold plenty of drugs and Diddy, didn't. Take your pick, as was said earlier nothing J did is or was unique to hip-hop. Stop listening to his hype and lyrics.
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that's probably the lone thing that really irritates me about J. It's like he has a "Boasting Quota" that he has to hit in every song.
 
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MWS Natural

Member
Yeah I wasn't aware Russel Simmons was an ex-drug dealer, but his parents were both public administrators it wasn't like he didn't know where his next meal was coming from lol. My point still stands though that no one in rap has done what Jay-Z has. From rages to riches, while being consistently one of the top selling rappers, building an empire that includes an NBA team while still keeping his "street cred" and of course you can't leave out.....Beyonce.

All of things are why you won't find a thread about hip-hop without a plethora of Jay-Z haters. I mean there really is a lot to hate on so I understand fellas.
 
M

MWS Natural

Member
sooperkool said:
OK.

50 Cent & Diddy

Both came from nothing and both are worth more than J. 50 sold plenty of drugs and Diddy, didn't. Take your pick, as was said earlier nothing J did is or was unique to hip-hop. Stop listening to his hype and lyrics.
Click to expand...


50 million albums sold vs 11 million

Lets not kid ourselves 50 got rich off vitamin water, it's not like actually built an empire like Jay.

Diddy really is the only person who comes close in my opinion. But is he regarded as one of greatest producers of all time the way Jay is considered one of greatest rappers of all time? Possibly. But Diddy wasn't able to maintain the "street cred" that Jay-Z has.
 
S

sooperkool

Member
MWS Natural said:
Yeah I wasn't aware Russel Simmons was an ex-drug dealer, but his parents were both public administrators it wasn't like he didn't know where his next meal was coming from lol. My point still stands though that no one in rap has done what Jay-Z has. From rages to riches, while being consistently one of the top selling rappers, building an empire that includes an NBA team while still keeping his "street cred" and of course you can't leave out.....Beyonce.

All of things are why you won't find a thread about hip-hop without a plethora of Jay-Z haters. I mean there really is a lot to hate on so I understand fellas.
Click to expand...


Ahhhh.... the eternal retort of a slighted youth "somebody is hating".


I'm just an older guy that is trying to get you to not do what most younger guys do, which is claim the most recent thing as the greatest thing and the only time that the accomplishment has occurred. I'm not even bothered by the opinion, I'm just trying to put it in true perspective for you.


Jay-Z has accomplished a lot but he's not the first ever to do so, he's also only able to do so because some of the others mentioned here have opened the doors of opportunity for him.

Selling lots of records: Hell Tupac sold 75 million in only 7 years compared to Jay's 14+ years

Building a record label and clothing brand: Give Russel Simmons some credit please.

Huge crossover appeal: give Russel and Run some credit there too.

Now its a damn fine accomplishment to own a piece of a sports franchise but lets be honest here. Jay never got off the ground floor with any of that until Prokorov (sp ?) got involved. In fact I may be wrong here but I'm sure he's a minority investor. be a jay-Z fan, be the best fan you can be but don't step on the toes of those who came before by not acknowledging their accomplishments and contributions.
 
P

Pinko Marx

Banned
sooperkool said:
Selling lots of records: Hell Tupac sold 75 million in only 7 years compared to Jay's 14+ years
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I don't know if thats a fair or apt comparison. Tupac died in his prime, and you know how artists tend to sell after they die. I bet if Jay-Z died today (knock on wood) his album sales, all of them (including the shitty ones) would fucking SKY ROCKET.

Also Himumu, I was just messin with you brooo~.
 
S

sooperkool

Member
Pinko Marx said:
I don't know if thats a fair or apt comparison. Tupac died in his prime, and you know how artists tend to sell after they die. I bet if Jay-Z died today (knock on wood) his album sales, all of them (including the shitty ones) would fucking SKY ROCKET.

Also Himumu, I was just messin with you brooo~.
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So he sold an extra 25 million because he died? 25 million?
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Pinko, I think you underestimate the popularity of Tupac in the 90s, as well as the popularity of purchasing CDs and tapes. I'm sure he sold a lot of albums posthumously, but the lion's share would have been sold while he was still kickin'.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
MWS Natural said:
50 million albums sold vs 11 million

Lets not kid ourselves 50 got rich off vitamin water, it's not like actually built an empire like Jay.

Diddy really is the only person who comes close in my opinion. But is he regarded as one of greatest producers of all time the way Jay is considered one of greatest rappers of all time? Possibly. But Diddy wasn't able to maintain the "street cred" that Jay-Z has.
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Definitely not. He doesn't make beats, and he's poison to any artist he touches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z3bLRPOlrw
 
P

Pinko Marx

Banned
Dreams-Visions said:
Pinko, I think you underestimate the popularity of Tupac in the 90s, as well as the popularity of purchasing CDs and tapes.
Click to expand...

Maybe I am, but you do bring up a good point; The fact that the music industry is a different beast today from what it was a decade ago. Artists don't sell as much as they used to, due to the internets. Back in the day it wasn't AS easy to pirate an album.
 
S

sooperkool

Member
Remember when you wouldn't even get the album unless it had at least 3 or 4 solid hits on it? Now, you're lucky to get 1 or two and there are like 3 albums a year by the same artist.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Pinko Marx said:
Maybe I am, but you do bring up a good point; The fact that the music industry is a different beast today from what it was a decade ago. Artists don't sell as much as they used to, due to the internets. Back in the day it wasn't AS easy to pirate an album.
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indeed.

in fact, CD burning didn't become popular until right around the turn of the century. Napster wasn't significant beyond college campuses (high bandwidth) until maybe 2000 or so. Tapes were cool, but the inconvenience of having to wait for a tape to dub was not hot. So most people just bought the CDs and called it a day. so yes absolutely, a totally different market than we have now. Back then, it was perfectly acceptable to buy an album that had only 2 or 3 songs that you actually liked on it...because you wanted those 2 or 3 songs. Hell, I can think of more than a few albums I bought for just ONE SONG.

now? well...yea.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
Pinko Marx said:
Maybe I am, but you do bring up a good point; The fact that the music industry is a different beast today from what it was a decade ago. Artists don't sell as much as they used to, due to the internets. Back in the day it wasn't AS easy to pirate an album.
Click to expand...

Jay-z buys most of his own opening week sales. Theres an island off new york that has a bunch of his self bought discs in storage. True story.

Seriously though, yea artists don't sell shit now. Drake went Platinum a couple of weeks ago, if it this were back in the 90's dude would have sold 10 times that over. I mean you got grown men crying at his album release signing because they think he is so great.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Imm0rt4l said:
Jay-z buys most of his own opening week sales. Theres an island off new york that has a bunch of his self bought discs in storage. True story.

Seriously though, yea artists don't sell shit now. Drake went Platinum a couple of weeks ago, if it this were back in the 90's dude would have sold 10 times that over. I mean you got grown men crying at his album release signing because they think he is so great.
Click to expand...
grown men? for real? :lol

anyway, I'm not sure how much artists care, considering they make virtually all their profits on touring. it's the record labels and recording companies who hurt. that said, this can affect the artist sometimes, as the sell-through is often used as a sign of the value of an artist. idk.
 
L

Lionheart1337

Member
Himuro said:
I would love to hear a hip hop song about religion that doesn't glorify god.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwYUSe7GeaU - mostly prodigy's verse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgOERQWz5Hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Qr5oKKP-M&ob=av3e
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pBtsIm2k5E - "Atheist rapper"



First and last links are more anti-religious and the middle two are like letters to god.
Lots more if you know where to look. Atheist here so I`d prefer non-glorifying songs.



Jay-Z sucks.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
grown men? for real? :lol

anyway, I'm not sure how much artists care, considering they make virtually all their profits on touring. it's the record labels and recording companies who hurt. that said, this can affect the artist sometimes, as the sell-through is often used as a sign of the value of an artist. idk.
Click to expand...


Yea man, on his release he had a signing in Jersey. I should say he wasn't balling but dude got choked up over Drake being so great in an interview.

and yea these artists pretty much only make their money on tour. Or fucking their artists over with 360 deals and stuff like that.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
oh...360 deals are bad?

can you tell me a little about that? Universal was trying to sign my brother to one of those, but none of us really knows enough about it to parse.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
oh...360 deals are bad?

can you tell me a little about that? Universal was trying to sign my brother to one of those, but none of us really knows enough about it to parse.
Click to expand...
it really only benefits the record label. If a rapper gets any sort of sponsorhip, say they get a shoe deal, then the label is entitled to a certain percentage.

Lionheart1337 said:
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh0IU1ap3XnX7g961Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv_8LUav62M

#blackpeopleneedtodobetter


360 deal = Label gets a taste of all of your profits basically. Shows, merchandise, etc.
Click to expand...
This.
 
L

lightless_shado

Banned
Can anyone reccomend me some good historical books or documentaries? stuff about Early African civilizations and Islam in the continent. I watched a program on the BBC the other day about muslims and their architecture in sub saharan africa.
 
C

captmcblack

Member
Basically, record labels are evil except for their ability to promote you/advertise you to where the stupid casual buyer will be paying attention (mainstream TV/radio/websites). You can't get on those things and become "famous" without getting in bed with those labels and giving up pretty much all of your potential earnings.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Lionheart1337 said:
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh0IU1ap3XnX7g961Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv_8LUav62M

#blackpeopleneedtodobetter


360 deal = Label gets a taste of all of your profits basically. Shows, merchandise, etc.
Click to expand...
i see.

oh, and I'm gonna need part 4 of that video.

captmcblack said:
Basically, record labels are evil except for their ability to promote you/advertise you to where the stupid casual buyer will be paying attention (mainstream TV/radio/websites). You can't get on those things and become "famous" without getting in bed with those labels and giving up pretty much all of your potential earnings.
Click to expand...
damn.

Imm0rt4l said:
it really only benefits the record label. If a rapper gets any sort of sponsorhip, say they get a shoe deal, then the label is entitled to a certain percentage.


This.
Click to expand...
alright. I'll make sure that doesn't happen, then. sometimes, mothafuckas just get excited that someone wants to sign them...and they sign something bad for their health. thanks for the insight, fellas.
 
M

MWS Natural

Member
sooperkool said:
Ahhhh.... the eternal retort of a slighted youth "somebody is hating".


I'm just an older guy that is trying to get you to not do what most younger guys do, which is claim the most recent thing as the greatest thing and the only time that the accomplishment has occurred. I'm not even bothered by the opinion, I'm just trying to put it in true perspective for you.


Jay-Z has accomplished a lot but he's not the first ever to do so, he's also only able to do so because some of the others mentioned here have opened the doors of opportunity for him.

Selling lots of records: Hell Tupac sold 75 million in only 7 years compared to Jay's 14+ years

Building a record label and clothing brand: Give Russel Simmons some credit please.

Huge crossover appeal: give Russel and Run some credit there too.

Now its a damn fine accomplishment to own a piece of a sports franchise but lets be honest here. Jay never got off the ground floor with any of that until Prokorov (sp ?) got involved. In fact I may be wrong here but I'm sure he's a minority investor. be a jay-Z fan, be the best fan you can be but don't step on the toes of those who came before by not acknowledging their accomplishments and contributions.
Click to expand...

I agree with you and appreciate the discussion. When I hear "yeah jigga is wack" etc I feel people are throwing out many of his other accomplishments just because of a lackluster verse here and there.


On a previous topic from waaaay back (not that anyone cares) about my job. I found out today the company I work for is going to pay for me to get all of my certifications. I guess that kind of makes up for them not coming correct with my salary adjustment. So good news on a GOOD FRIDAY :D
 
L

Lionheart1337

Member
Urban Scholar said:
Wow must remember to bookmark these. "My tongue is like the hammer of Thor... Nailing your deity to a cross and askin' for more."

I demand more!
Click to expand...

This whole album had a lot of God/relationship talk. Love this guy. Dude did a concert in his work clothes from Best Buy....that's real shit :lol

Def check out Immortal Tech if you haven't. He's a conspiracy theorist so not everyone likes him but he definitely taps on religion a lot. Dude def spits raw.


Ill bill - Society is brainwashed (goes into religion)


I`ll edit with more if I find, going through my library lol.

@Dreams, I don't even know if it's out or if that vid is real...funny shit tho
 
D

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
sooperkool said:
Jay-Z has accomplished a lot but he's not the first ever to do so, he's also only able to do so because some of the others mentioned here have opened the doors of opportunity for him.

Selling lots of records: Hell Tupac sold 75 million in only 7 years compared to Jay's 14+ years

Building a record label and clothing brand: Give Russel Simmons some credit please.

Huge crossover appeal: give Russel and Run some credit there too.
Click to expand...

Let's not forget MC Hammer in all of that. Hammer did alot as far as opening doors and helping rap to become welcomed in pop music. I know he gets tons of hate, hell he got hate back then too, but those pop hits opened alot of doors.
 
C

captmcblack

Member
Jigga is unquestionably not wack.

However, the following things are true:

- he is impossibly self-absorbed for a guy who shouldn't have to say anything about his standing in the game. I guess every rapper gets caught up in this though...but Jay is on some extra extra shit about his.

- he got absolutely and completely destroyed by Nas on Ether. This isn't even arguable. It hurt him so bad, that it kicked the braggadocio up to the level it's at now. He was damn-near crying on live radio (Angie Martinez @ Hot97 NYC when he was listening to the song, and the listener reaction to it). If that is the one blemish on a perfect record, it was such a blemish that the term for getting owned in hip-hop culture IS "ether".
 
D

DominoKid

Member
captmcblack said:
Jigga is unquestionably not wack.

However, the following things are true:

- he is impossibly self-absorbed for a guy who shouldn't have to say anything about his standing in the game. I guess every rapper gets caught up in this though...but Jay is on some extra extra shit about his.

- he got absolutely and completely destroyed by Nas on Ether. This isn't even arguable. It hurt him so bad, that it kicked the braggadocio up to the level it's at now. He was damn-near crying on live radio (Angie Martinez @ Hot97 NYC when he was listening to the song, and the listener reaction to it). If that is the one blemish on a perfect record, it was such a blemish that the term for getting owned in hip-hop culture IS "ether".
Click to expand...

mention this to a Jay-Z stan and watch them scramble together all the defenses they can.
its like it kills them to admit that their hero got his ass destroyed.

god my roommate pisses me off.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
captmcblack said:
Jigga is unquestionably not wack.

However, the following things are true:

- he is impossibly self-absorbed for a guy who shouldn't have to say anything about his standing in the game. I guess every rapper gets caught up in this though...but Jay is on some extra extra shit about his.

- he got absolutely and completely destroyed by Nas on Ether. This isn't even arguable. It hurt him so bad, that it kicked the braggadocio up to the level it's at now. He was damn-near crying on live radio (Angie Martinez @ Hot97 NYC when he was listening to the song, and the listener reaction to it). If that is the one blemish on a perfect record, it was such a blemish that the term for getting owned in hip-hop culture IS "ether".
Click to expand...
But Ether was so vulga.....
 
S

sooperkool

Member
dskillzhtown said:
Let's not forget MC Hammer in all of that. Hammer did alot as far as opening doors and helping rap to become welcomed in pop music. I know he gets tons of hate, hell he got hate back then too, but those pop hits opened alot of doors.
Click to expand...


I can't hate, the first album (Lets get it Started) was club fire!
 
P

Pinko Marx

Banned
sooperkool said:
I can't hate, the first album (Lets get it Started) was club fire!
Click to expand...

33xvg9s.jpg
 
K

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Dreams-Visions said:
oh...360 deals are bad?

can you tell me a little about that? Universal was trying to sign my brother to one of those, but none of us really knows enough about it to parse.
Click to expand...
Are you serious?

Get a damn lawyer. Not like you can't afford it....
 
Tokubetsu

Tokubetsu

Member
Himuro said:
Quality era Kweli was fire.
Click to expand...

Not even a huge Kweli fan but I definitely agree with this. I remember a girl I was half seeing had Quality and Erykah Badu's "Baduizm" and it pretty much sealed the deal for me :lol
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I guess in a final point on defending hip hop: most modern genres include repetitive song structures. Especially electronic music. As a hip hop fan I'm never gonna lose interest in a good soul loop, but I tend to prefer more left field sampling and chopping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt33wnUXhbU

I view rapping and singing differently and enjoy both as expressive art. At their heights both can be amazing, although singing definitely have more of an emotional power to it imo. So I see that as common ground between us Himu. Emotionally, hip hop can resonate with me on a lyrical level. Some songs describe parts of your past or current life so well it almost feels as if your own mind is talking to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbGwb10QBno

Lyrically though, everything has been done before; there may be different ways to tackle a love song, but the same can be said of "I'm from the streets" type stuff. But when you add in the emotional depth of singing, instruments, etc yea I see where you're coming from and agree.

At its heart hip hop is storytelling, and if someone has an interesting story to tell I'm all for it. If you're gonna do coke rap, doing it interestingly gets my attention. If you're from the streets, I want to hear your story etc.
 
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