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[Golnei]

make them muscolar hairy men. win-win!

I can understand it for Ein and Eliot, but there's no excuse for Bass to not at least have optional body hair.

Leon looks like he could use some as well, and it'd work so naturally with Raidou that I keep seeing his scars as hair.

He said the women in his development team wanted to add a male character, so unless they really love Harada, I doubt it lol.

It's always a possibility. Still, I'm interested to see what they come up with.

Also, another point to think about is whether or not the people who make these games even WANT sexualized men in them. I don't really think they do, but that's just me speculating.

In that case, why include male characters at all in the main DOA games? They may not have put anywhere near as much effort into the male cast's costumes, but they still deliberately create attractive male characters and sexualised male costumes - the speedos are one thing, but they also exist alongside the MMA gear, Jacky's pulled-back shirt and tight jeans (a completely original costume which was never part of Virtua Fighter), half of Ein's wardrobe and the odd Halloween outfit. They clearly have the capability to sexualise men without frying their delicate gynophilic brains, it's just not being done that often.

 

[Eusis]

Are you guys out of your mind?

For istance, I think DoA Xtreme is ridicolous and cringeworthy. You now I'm not biased in stating the following.
I know where this naked man thing cames from. Gays and women are like "we have no problem with your naked chicks so you don't have to get uncinfortable with our naked man. Don't be such a baby." Well gues what? It's common sense that straight men get unconfortable looking at near naked muscolar hairless men. Women have zero problems at looking at other females and profusely compliment each other about their bodies.
Men and women aren't the same. Also straight and gays aren't the same. They like different things and get unconfortable with different things.

Do you like naked men? Have a naked men thing on your own. Why people feel the urge to push their agenda to other people is something I can't understand.

Could this discomfort be a fear you might find that attractive? Seems to be the main reason to be uncomfortable as otherwise they should be as inoffensive as potatoes. Nevermind that films and HBO may frequently have just that, men can and will walk around naked in locker rooms, and we'll even use them in the name of gags.

If you get uncomfortable that's fine, but don't act like that's justification to not equalize things in the name of sparing your feelings.

 

[Hours Left]

I dunno. I kinda get what you're saying but I just don't agree. It's not a big enough issue that it would make me not buy the game though, so I wouldn't be angry if it did happen. It just doesn't really make sense to me.

Again, it's about perspective. You might not think it's a big issue either way, but other people do. And while you presumably have a wide variety of choices in order to satisfy any sort of fan service you desire, people like me do not, so that's why it's important.

Also, another point to think about is whether or not the people who make these games even WANT sexualized men in them. I don't really think they do, but that's just me speculating.

Without any sort of statement, I doubt anyone could say for sure. But they have been slowly increasing the male fan service in DoA5, so they must recognize the potential it has, rather because they personally think it has merit, or they were instructed to by the powers that be. And the male characters are already there. They have fans. Why not utilize them?

 

[ZehDon]

...Some people like both too. And even though I'm gay, I'd like to have the female characters be present in my game alongside the men.

And with the presumed toggles/DLC scheme, everyone can customize it to their preferences...

This isn't really a cost effective suggestion, given the amount of expenditure behind a single character. DOAX is already a niche series, and it would be budgeted accordingly. Assuming equal numbers of gender representation, you're quite literally wasting half your budget on half a game's worth of content that a given gendered player is simply not going to want to interactive with. This solution isn't creating new business opportunities, it is diluting a niche product's ability to provide what its current customers are buying.

Of course, erotic games - and let's be honest here, that's what DOAX is at the end of the day - have absolutely no responsibility when it comes to equal gender representation in terms of content, as they are by virtue of design targeted for particular consumers with particular erotic desires. For example, pornographic production companies don't create a film titled "Busty Anal Blondes 87" targeted towards straight men who like anal sex with busty blondes 87 times, and then add a man-on-man scene in the middle because "equality". Adding men to DOAX is the literal antithesis of this particular series. And, as I explained above, would detract from not only the product's appeal, but also from its creators ability to provide a product that its customers viewed as worth the price tag. Creating a new game series, Dead or Alive Unreal or some-such, targeted exclusively at those seeking softcore erotica featuring male stars, is the only viable solution. However, given the sheer lack of demand for products featuring men presented in the same way as the girls in DOAX, even if the product were green-lit, the budget would be minuscule in comparison. This is why it doesn't exist already, and why softcore erotica games are almost exclusively targeted at straight men.

 

[Captain Europe]

Are you guys out of your mind?

For istance, I think DoA Xtreme is ridicolous and cringeworthy. You now I'm not biased in stating the following.
I know where this naked man thing cames from. Gays and women are like "we have no problem with your naked chicks so you don't have to get uncinfortable with our naked man. Don't be such a baby." Well gues what? It's common sense that straight men get unconfortable looking at near naked muscolar hairless men. Women have zero problems at looking at other females and profusely compliment each other about their bodies.
Men and women aren't the same. Also straight and gays aren't the same. They like different things and get unconfortable with different things.

Do you like naked men? Have a naked men thing on your own. Why people feel the urge to push their agenda to other people is something I can't understand.

Or... they could make an option so you can pick all girls, all men, or both. Modes and options in games, pretty crazy huh?

Secondly, loads of straight men appreciate good looks on other men, or have man crushes. Just because you have insecurities doesn't mean all straight men do.

 

[Puruzi]

Again, it's about perspective. You might not think it's a big issue either way, but other people do. And while you presumably have a wide variety of choices in order to satisfy any sort of fan service you desire, people like me do not, so that's why it's important.


Without any sort of statement, I doubt anyone could say for sure. But they have been slowly increasing the male fan service in DoA5, so they must recognize the potential it has, rather because they personally think it has merit, or they were instructed to by the powers that be. And the male characters are already there. They have fans. Why not utilize them?

But the thing is, I get that you guys don't have enough games that pander to your likes. However I don't get why you think adding them to DOAX is better than just making a straight up all guy sexy game. I know you said you like having the females there too, but it just seems more optimal for everyone involved to make different games of this type that pander to different people.

 

[mrklaw]

But the thing is, I get that you guys don't have enough games that pander to your likes. However I don't get why you think adding them to DOAX is better than just making a straight up all guy sexy game. I know you said you like having the females there too, but it just seems more optimal for everyone involved to make different games of this type that pander to different people.

DoA Venus & DoA Mars

 

[Village]

But the thing is, I get that you guys don't have enough games that pander to your likes. However I don't get why you think adding them to DOAX is better than just making a straight up all guy sexy game. I know you said you like having the females there too, but it just seems more optimal for everyone involved to make different games of this type that pander to different people.

But there would litterally nothing lost, if say you turned on the game. And you got to pick the gender of the folk on your island.

Like nothing lost.
Literally... Nothing. It could totally be the same game.

 

[Puruzi]

But there would litterally nothing lost, if say you turned on the game. And you got to pick the gender of the folk on your island.

Like nothing lost.
Literally... Nothing. It could totally be the same game.

If you do both there's a higher chance of one being half assed or both not being as good as they would've been if they were separate.

 

[Hours Left]

This isn't really a cost effective suggestion, given the amount of expenditure behind a single character. DOAX is already a niche series, and it would be budgeted accordingly. Assuming equal numbers of gender representation, you're quite literally wasting half your budget on half a game's worth of content that a given gendered player is simply not going to want to interactive with. This solution isn't creating new business opportunities, it is diluting a niche product's ability to provide what its current customers are buying.

Of course, erotic games - and let's be honest here, that's what DOAX is at the end of the day - have absolutely no responsibility when it comes to equal gender representation in terms of content, as they are by virtue of design targeted for particular consumers with particular erotic desires. For example, pornographic production companies don't create a film titled "Busty Anal Blondes 87" targeted towards straight men who like anal sex with busty blondes 87 times, and then add a man-on-man scene in the middle because "equality". Adding men to DOAX is the literal antithesis of this particular series. And, as I explained above, would detract from not only the product's appeal, but also from its creators ability to provide a product that its customers viewed as worth the price tag. Creating a new game series, Dead or Alive Unreal or some-such, targeted exclusively at those seeking softcore erotica featuring male stars, is the only viable solution. However, given the sheer lack of demand for products featuring men presented in the same way as the girls in DOAX, even if the product were green-lit, the budget would be minuscule in comparison. This is why it doesn't exist already, and why softcore erotica games are almost exclusively targeted at straight men.

You're heavily discounting the added appeal that male centric fan service could add to the series. And as others have already mentioned, straight men are not the only people that play Dead or Alive games. And if this product is already in such a tenuous position, wouldn't it behoove the developers to try and find a way to expand the market it appeals to?

Again, I'd love a separate version. But do you really think that Koei Tecmo is going to fund that in the current market? And if that doesn't happen, what's our alternative? Nothing? You can't exactly build on any potential a market has if you don't do anything about it. Does it present risks? Of course it does, but so does literally every other decision a company can make. What I'm saying is that it's a risk worth taking, not just to do right by fans that have long stood on the sidelines with almost nothing to show for it, but also to insure the company has properties in place that can adapt to the ever changing and expanding market.

But the thing is, I get that you guys don't have enough games that pander to your likes. However I don't get why you think adding them to DOAX is better than just making a straight up all guy sexy game. I know you said you like having the females there too, but it just seems more optimal for everyone involved to make different games of this type that pander to different people.

But where are these "male only" fan service games coming from? Who is making them? Certainly none of the large dev houses. If I had access to those types of titles on a more than bicentennial basis, I wouldn't need to make a topic like this. Would I love a male only DoAX game? Of course I would. But it's not happening, at least not yet.

But things are changing for the better, yes, and that's amazing. But we still have a long way to go, and expansions like the one I'm purposing can be part of that. When you have to campaign for even the slightest bit of consideration, you'd learn that you need to maximize the potential for success. Utilizing a known property is one of these opportunities.

 

[Village]

If you do both there's a higher chance of one being half assed or both not being as good as they would've been if they were separate.

Or ou could take your time, and include both genders and make a good game.

Like a lot of games that have both genders

You sound like Ubisoft.

 

[Captain Europe]

If you do both there's a higher chance of one being half assed or both not being as good as they would've been if they were separate.

It's already half assed af. They should actually try to make an effort for this game.

 

[Eusis]

If you do both there's a higher chance of one being half assed or both not being as good as they would've been if they were separate.

I suppose losing half of the ass would diminish sales for the game drastically. Need to double down to go full ass.

 

[ponpo]

Some developer is gonna have a breakthrough when it comes to fan service of the male variety, and other companies are going to be wishing that they had pursued a similar course of action sooner. The only thing to wonder is, which big developer is going to really embrace this unstoppable trend and bring it to the masses.

Citation required on this. Where are the sources saying there is a giant untapped market for male fan service like what's shown in the OP in games?

 

[the_batman]

Or ou could take your time, and include both genders and make a good game.

Like a lot of games that have both genders

look at this transphobe!

 

[Puruzi]

But where are these "male only" fan service games coming from? Who is making them? Certainly none of the large dev houses. If I had access to those types of titles on a more than bicentennial basis, I wouldn't need to make a topic like this. Would I love a male only DoAX game? Of course I would. But it's not happening, at least not yet.

But things are changing for the better, yes, and that's amazing. But we still have a long way to go, and expansions like the one I'm purposing can be part of that. When you have to campaign for even the slightest bit of consideration, you'd learn that you need to maximize the potential for success. Utilizing a known property is one of these opportunities.

Well, I meant it in a hypothetical sense. It's not happening yet, but it really should be.

And I guess it actually would make sense to have it start happening by introducing it to something that's already known, so you're right.

Or ou could take your time, and include both genders and make a good game.

Like a lot of games that have both genders

You sound like Ubisoft.

Alot of these games that already have rep for both genders aren't fanservice games, so I don't even know why you're bringing them up.

It's already half assed af. They should actually try to make an effort for this game.

I'm totally satisfied with what I'm getting in DOAX3, so we're just going to disagree

I suppose losing half of the ass would diminish sales for the game drastically. Need to double down to go full ass.

lol

 

[EmSeta]

Well, some women argue that when men are objectified and sexualized in the exact same manner as women are, it's mainly fan service for gay men.

The idea (witch I don't think is terribly controversial) is that most women want some more context around their objects of desire.

 

[Hours Left]

Citation required on this. Where are the sources saying there is a giant untapped market for male fan service like what's shown in the OP in games?

Are you saying this to be dismissive or are you actually wondering? Look at the success of games like Dragon Age Origins, Mass Effect 3, Fire Emblem Fates, etc. All games that have included heavy doses of fan service centered on male characters. Another recent example, the extremely positive reaction to the Hot Ryu costume in SFV.

Also, the mere fact that female gamers, gay male gamers, bisexual gamers, etc exist is enough proof that there is a market for this type of content.

Well, some women argue that when men are objectified and sexualized in the exact same manner as women are, it's mainly fan service for gay men.

The idea (witch I don't think is terribly controversial) is that most women want some more context around their objects of desire.

I covered this in the OP. There's definitely other viable ways to sexualize both male and female characters, and they should definitely be explored.

This is in regards to the more overt cases of visual sexualization though.

 

[Basketball]

I wonder what are the general sales numbers for the male dlc stuff is

compared to the female ones .. not only including the revealing stuff.

The dlc milking is pretty much the life blood of the series now, and team ninja isn't one of the more successful teams so it kind of makes sense for them to just follow their cash cow and the rabid otakus. DOX 3 already looks like a rush job anyway.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

I think it's not as profitable as making a game with sexy ladies.

 

[ponpo]

Are you saying this to be dismissive or are you actually wondering? Look at the success of games like Dragon Age Origins, Mass Effect 3, Fire Emblem Fates, etc. All games that have included heavy doses of fan service centered on male characters. Another recent example, the extremely positive reaction to the Hot Ryu costume in SFV.

No, I'm actually asking. And positive reception towards single characters in games that aren't based around fan service seems different than what you were suggesting.

You made it sound like DoAX3 Man Edition would be such a breakthrough that other companies would be upset they didn't come out with it first and I'm wondering why you think the market for such a game is that large.

 

[Hours Left]

No, I'm actually asking. And positive reception towards single characters in games that aren't based around fan service seems different than what you were suggesting.

You made it sound like DoAX3 Man Edition would be such a breakthrough that other companies would be upset they didn't come out with it first and I'm wondering why you think the market for such a game is that large.

Because companies are prone to following trends in the market, and it's always best to be at the forefront of such trends. (And I'd make sure assertion that fan service is a very large part of the series I mentioned. The relationship aspects of the Dragon Age, Mass Effect and Fire Emblem absolutely dominate the discussion surrounding those series currently.)

The market is shifting away from catering almost entirely to straight men, to a more diversified audience of gamers. While straight men will almost certainly be integral to the success of the medium, they are no longer the sole factor that is taken into account, nor should they be. So the natural result of this shift is the need and desire for content that appeals to other types of gamers, and this includes sexualized content.

So yes, I do think some company will take a chance on some heavy male fan service and in result have a breakthrough of sorts in the market, urging other developers to try to replicate that same success. Why shouldn't that happen? I'm not saying it's a guaranteed, sure fire win for the first one up to bat, but the potential is there. Many smart business ventures are almost entirely based on honing in on untapped aspects of the marketplace.

 

[Playsage]

Assuming he wasn't just talking about himself.

WHAT?!? Ahahahahahahahahahah

 

[Terrell]

My big problem would be that when I talk about DoAX or enter a DoAX thread, I don't want to see men. If I was to see that, I'd just stop interacting with the franchise in that way. As it stands, the series caters exclusively to my tastes, and I obviously like that.

This is the same argument that was made by people mad at the gay relationship options in Mass Effect and Dragon Age, and it holds about as much water now as it ever did.

I'm gonna say there aren't any nearly naked men in DOAX3 for the same reason there aren't any naked men in Playboy magazine (I guess there aren't any naked women anymore, either, but I digress). It's targeted at a certain audience, and that audience doesn't wanna stumble onto some dong.

I'm quite certain that it would be walled off in a separate mode so hard that the only way you'd "stumble into" some dong is if you purposely tripped to land face first into it with your mouth open... coincidentally, of course.

This is very true.

But I must stress too it's not just girls. Gay gamers are really not given our due when it comes to anticipation of content like this. (Or really, just being a part of the gaming community as a whole.) I can guarantee that many gay gamers wish to see this type of content as well.

I can sign off on that. Hours Left and I have discussed ways that this could be done before in PM, if I recall my memory correctly.

It is a major problem for sure, and that's why gay consumers, and gay content creators, need to be more vocal about our wishes. Thankfully gay rights are beginning to see a surge of action in Japan, and I'm hoping with that we see more of an effort to be mindful of LGBT gamers in regards to the content being offered.

OK, don't want to derail the topic, but could you bring me up to speed on this turn of events?

Isn't bara aimed at gay males? Not that that should be the only thing out there for that demographic of course.

Women in Japan have seen a growing interest, as the common wisdom of what type of men they are to find attractive is starting to break down. I've been hearing stories of Japanese women moving to South Korea to make it more likely that they will find a man who has the sort of body type they crave, which Korean culture seems more apt to promote than Japan ever has.

Wouldn't it be better to just have a separate beefcake game, one that was tailored to that experience, as opposed to tacking it on to DOAX?

DOAX is struggling to justify its own existence even in Japan, it can use all the extra sales it can get.

If you do both there's a higher chance of one being half assed or both not being as good as they would've been if they were separate.

Ahhh, so "peen will take away my ladies" is the primary concern then?

 

[ZehDon]

You're heavily discounting the added appeal that male centric fan service could add to the series. And as others have already mentioned, straight men are not the only people that play Dead or Alive games. And if this product is already in such a tenuous position, wouldn't it behoove the developers to try and find a way to expand the market it appeals to?

Again, I'd love a separate version. But do you really think that Koei Tecmo is going to fund that in the current market? And if that doesn't happen, what's our alternative? Nothing? You can't exactly build on any potential a market has if you don't do anything about it. Does it present risks? Of course it does, but so does literally every other decision a company can make. What I'm saying is that it's a risk worth taking, not just to do right by fans that have long stood on the sidelines with almost nothing to show for it, but also to insure the company has properties in place that can adapt to the ever changing and expanding market...

I'm afraid you've got it backwards, friend. You're heavily and deeply overestimating the appeal. Targeting literally the single largest demographic in the market, and still only having niche status to show for it, should demonstrate how little demand there is for DOAX's brand of entertainment in this space. Narrowing in on smaller sub-sections of the market, sub-sections statistically uninterested in this type of erotic product, be they female or gay gamers, isn't how you "expand the market it appeals to". Would the number of current fans turned away from the series once men were added be smaller than the number of new fans it might bring in? Kindly demonstrate your rationale with data points and sources, because market trends have pointed to no for as far back as you want to look. Typically speaking, women do not sexually objectify men in the same way, or to the same degree, men sexually objectify women. This is why products like DOAX only target straight males.

Of course, you're also presenting conflicting points. If you agree Koei Tecmo wouldn't fund an alternative, male focused version, don't you think there is a reason for that? Demand simply isn't great enough to justify the expenditure. Diluting their current product with almost mutually exclusive content and demographics is product suicide. In terms of your alternatives, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but they're irrelevant. It is not the moral, ethical, legal or financial responsibility of content providers to cater their content to everyone or to every market. This is precisely why games like DOAX exist in the first place.

Being a minority in a market that targets only the largest demographics to justify their budgets is not an enviable position. While I certainly sympathise with you, you're simply not presenting reasonable requests or practical solutions, given the constraints and market forces in play.

 

[Mr Nash]

When did AngryJoe get his own game? =p

 

[Taruranto]

DOAX is a product which entire purpose is provide masturbatory fantasies for straight people and its developers.

It's like watching gay porn and asking for girls. It won't happen.

 

[Hours Left]

I can sign off on that. Hours Left and I have discussed ways that this could be done before in PM, if I recall my memory correctly.

Yep.

OK, don't want to derail the topic, but could you bring me up to speed on this turn of events?

You can read up about it here. The major news lately is that some districts have approved issuing same sex marriage certificates. Also, many large companies lately have made assurances that they are going to offer the same benefits to same sex couples are they currently do with straight couples, as well as offering sensitivity training and education to their employees. (There has been some notable instances in popular culture too, like the aforementioned all ages manga by famed bara artist Gengoroh Tagame.)

I'm afraid you've got it backwards, friend. You're heavily and deeply overestimating the appeal. Targeting literally the single largest demographic in the market, and still only having niche status to show for it, should demonstrate how little demand there is for DOAX's brand of entertainment in this space. Narrowing in on smaller sub-sections of the market, sub-sections statistically uninterested in this type of erotic product, be they female or gay gamers, isn't how you "expand the market it appeals to". Would the number of current fans turned away from the series once men were added be smaller than the number of new fans it might bring in? Kindly demonstrate your rationale with data points and sources, because market trends have pointed to no for as far back as you want to look. Typically speaking, women do not sexually objectify men in the same way, or to the same degree, men sexually objectify women. This is why products like DOAX only target straight males.

Of course, you're also presenting conflicting points. If you agree Koei Tecmo wouldn't fund an alternative, male focused version, don't you think there is a reason for that? Demand simply isn't great enough to justify the expenditure. Diluting their current product with almost mutually exclusive content and demographics is product suicide. In terms of your alternatives, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but they're irrelevant. It is not the moral, ethical, legal or financial responsibility of content providers to cater their content to everyone or to every market. This is precisely why games like DOAX exist in the first place.

Being a minority in a market that targets only the largest demographics to justify their budgets is not an enviable position. While I certainly sympathise with you, you're simply not presenting reasonable requests or practical solutions, given the constraints and market forces in play.

The problem is the fact that they're only targeting one demographic as opposed to taking the opportunity to diversify based on the assets they have available to them. And as far as examples go, I just listed three series (Dragon Age, Mass Effect and Fire Emblem) that have seen a surge in popularity and sales when they added fan service content that appeals to players outside just straight males.

And my suggestion of adding male centric fan service content to DoAX is not a conflicting point, it's looking at what is currently viable, and coming up with a scenario that leverages what Koei Tecmo has to work with with the least amount of financial risk.

Your post seems to rely heavily on the fact that because the market presents obstacles, that all risks are not advisable. And while it's true that companies need to be careful of what risks they do take, it's far riskier to remain insular and not try to expand their market. Doing so will only lead to a slow death.

It's attitudes like this that lead to stagnant growth and permeate the idea that gaming cannot grow beyond its past limitations, and I don't agree with that at all.

DOAX is a product which entire purpose is provide masturbatory fantasies for straight people and its developers.

It's like watching gay porn and asking for girls. It won't happen.

Yet Dead or Alive on a whole has male character, and those male characters have received fan service attention. While the initial intent for DoAX was certainly an avenue to showcase their female characters for the benefit of straight men, it also contains the potential to be more than that.

 

[Dremark]

They can add men, I have zero issue with it.

 

[Antiwhippy]

He said the women in his development team wanted to add a male character, so unless they really love Harada, I doubt it lol.

Who doesn't love harada?

 

[notaskwid]

I very much doubt that there is a market big enough for this to be worth it for Tecmo.

 

[aadiboy]

Eh...a game with only male fanservice would sell like shit, let's be honest here. Women and gay men just aren't as horny as straight guys are. Similarly, adding a guy mode to DOA would take a lot of extra time and effort for an extremely tiny audience.

 

[elyetis]

If you do both there's a higher chance of one being half assed or both not being as good as they would've been if they were separate.

There is a chance of seeing less content for each 'side' if it's a single game. On the other hand it's already a niche game, so having both in a single game would mean less chance of failure ( sales wise ), a separate game would be a niche within a niche.

 

[Necromanti]

I don't see why they couldn't at least add an optional mode to the game that expands its options, but reading through this thread, it sounds like that demographic they're targeting is extremely sensitive about not being exclusively catered to.

 

[Taruranto]

The problem is the fact that they're only targeting one demographic as opposed to taking the opportunity to diversify based on the assets they have available to them. And as far as examples go, I just listed three series (Dragon Age, Mass Effect and Fire Emblem) that have seen a surge in popularity and sales when they added fan service content that appeals to players outside just straight males.

Why are you mixing what is essentially soft-core porn (DOAX) with "normal" series like DA, ME and FE? As ZehDon already said in the thread

As For example, pornographic production companies don't create a film titled "Busty Anal Blondes 87" targeted towards straight men who like anal sex with busty blondes 87 times, and then add a man-on-man scene in the middle because "equality".

Product already aimed at women and gay men for titillation purpose already exist, bara, yaoi and otome are all genre that already exist. And in the same vein as DOAX, you don't go buy a No Thank You!!! and ask them to add naked girls. These are all product aimed at a specific niche (DOAX, NTY) that isn't looking for anything but getting pandered.

At best you can hope for an entirely different version of DOAX only featuring dudes, but I doubt there is a market to support it (with those production values, at least).

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

DOAX is a product which entire purpose is provide masturbatory fantasies for straight people and its developers.

It's like watching gay porn and asking for girls. It won't happen.

I cannot speak for DOAX3 since I obviously haven't played it, but the series are actually fun games that of course get a bad rep for their sexiness. They are on a hot beach playing volleyball and having fun. Most women with these figures would dress pretty similar I would imagine. Sure, the sexiness in this particular game is in-your-face sometimes and isn't subtle, but there is a chance that some gamers do actually play the game and enjoy it.

Honestly though, I think the men should get their own separate game instead of tacked on DOAX3 where the primary focus is the beautiful women.

 

[Golnei]

Eh...a game with only male fanservice would sell like shit, let's be honest here. Women and gay men just aren't as horny as straight guys are. Similarly, adding a guy mode to DOA would take a lot of extra time and effort for an extremely tiny audience.

I seriously have to question the assertion that straight men are the only demographic on the planet capable of lust - surely you've at least come into contact with the stereotype of gay men as hypersexual rapists, if nothing else. Similarly, I wouldn't say the lack of blatant fanservice focused on men in games automatically means it has no appeal within the market, when it's barely been given the chance to fail. At the very least, it could be another reliable, profitable niche audience - the amount of women (and less importantly, men with certain inclinations) who'd respond positively to games centred around sexualised men can't be less of a factor than loli fans; while the latter can anchor entire subgenres and have representation in DOA despite being regarded with revulsion even by a portion of its fanbase.

 

[Hours Left]

Why are you mixing what is essentially soft-core porn (DOAX) with "normal" series like DA, ME and FE?

All three of those series contain heavy amounts of fan service material, including actual sex scenes in the case of the first two. What precludes DoAX from being compared to them?

 

[notaskwid]

All three of those series contain heavy amounts of fan service material, including actual sex scenes in the case of the first two. What precludes DoAX from being compared to them?

Because fan service is the sole reason why DoAXV exists unlike those other games?

 

[ZehDon]

...The problem is the fact that they're only targeting one demographic as opposed to taking the opportunity to diversify based on the assets they have available to them. And as far as examples go, I just listed three series (Dragon Age, Mass Effect and Fire Emblem) that have seen a surge in popularity and sales when they added fan service content that appeals to players outside just straight males.

And my suggestion of adding male centric fan service content to DoAX is not a conflicting point, it's looking at what is currently viable, and coming up with a scenario that leverages what Koei Tecmo has to work with with the least amount of financial risk.

Your post seems to rely heavily on the fact that because the market presents obstacles, and that all risks are not advisable. And while it's true that companies need to be careful of what risks they do take, it's far riskier to remain insular and not try to expand their market. Doing so will only lead to a slow death.

It's attitudes like this that lead to stagnant growth and permeate the idea that gaming cannot grow beyond its past limitations, and I don't agree with that at all...

That may be a problem for yourself, but its not for Koei Tecmo, nor for the fans of DOAX. As for your examples, you're going to have to do significantly better than those poor, unequal comparisons. Not one of those titles are primarily erotic in nature, and the "not-straight not-male" content in each is little more than a bullet point on a box comprising alternative dialogue lines, rather than half an entire AAA game's worth of heavily targeted sexual orientation specific content. And, of course, the "surge in popularity" is directly connected with an increase in quality, budget, marketing and production value for each of the titles you mentioned. I will, however, concede that allowing for female avatars in those games likely increased sales potential.

As for statement regarding conflicting points, you're clearly not reading this very thread. Men who buy DOAX do not wish to see men in the game. Adding men will doubtable cost sales for the DOAX series. The unlikely potential sales from adding men will never out-weigh that loss. Creating a new series, targeted exclusively at consumers looking for male-centric erotica is your only solution. And we've already agreed that's currently impossible.

And your talk about "expanding markets" makes no sense, given your admission that funding a male-centric erotic game in the same vein as DOAX is impossible. You're demonstrating a massive disconnect between the real world, and your desire. There isn't a huge gay male and straight woman untapped market, clamouring at the bit for this type of erotic product. This is demonstrable. These groups form tiny fractions of the total consumers of other types of erotica. Straight males dominate the demand for erotic entertainment. In the other industries, where costs are lower, of course they can be catered for. This is why gay porn and "female friendly" porn are sub-genres of larger markets. However, in an industry with costs as high as this one, targeting tiny fractions of sub-sections of demographics that are demonstrable uninterested is not only idiotic, its financially irresponsible.

You've offering zero rebuttal to any of my rationale, besides trumpeting business-sounding buzz words incorrectly.

 

[Hours Left]

Because fan service is the sole reason why DoAXV exists unlike those other games?

But the whole reason I compared them is to show that the expanded fan service elements of those three series are a large part of why they've seen success.

 

[Chastten]

I get your point, and they could get men in there, I really don't care, but its all about financials. It doesn't make financial sense to do so. They'd lose a significant part of their fanbase and gain what? A few bi/gay men at best. Sales of the game would go from mediocre at best, to disastrous.

Women aren't suddenly gonna buy this game because there are some scantily clad men in there. Women aren't as easily visually stimulated as men, and even if they are, a lot of them like looking at females as much, if not more so, then males. There is no real female equivalent of a guy staring at women in bikini's when they're at the beach. Simple as that. Not saying they don't look, but not in the same way men do.

That's also one of the reasons why 18+ Visual Novels aimed at men generally focus on the 18+ scenes, whereas VN's aimed at women put more emphasis on the story leading to said scenes.

 

[Lightning Count]

Where is that awesome GIF of Kiryu grappling with another guy while both are naked in a steam room? Because they need to get in on that.

 

[Laughing Banana]

But the whole reason I compared them is to show that the expanded fan service elements of those three series are a large part of why they've seen success.

Somehow I doubt the ability of making Shepard kiss Kaidan is a large part of Mass Effect success. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc are finely produced games that *even* without that can stand on their own with their high production values and stuff like story, character, gameplay, etc. Games like DoA Xtreme? Not so much.

Having said that however, I personally don't mind with more options for those preferring good bodies of men in DoA Xtreme. Those who dislike them can opt to ignore them completely, after all.

 

[Hours Left]

That may be a problem for yourself, but its not for Koei Tecmo, nor for the fans of DOAX. As for your examples, you're going to have to do significantly better than those poor, unequal comparisons. Not one of those titles are primarily erotic in nature, and the "not-straight not-male" content in each is little more than a bullet point on a box comprising alternative dialogue lines, rather than half an entire AAA game's worth of heavily targeted sexual orientation specific content. And, of course, the "surge in popularity" is directly connected with an increase in quality, budget, marketing and production value for each of the titles you mentioned. I will, however, concede that allowing for female avatars in those games likely increased sales potential.

As for statement regarding conflicting points, you're clearly not reading this very thread. Men who buy DOAX do not wish to see men in the game. Adding men will doubtable cost sales for the DOAX series. The unlikely potential sales from adding men will never out-weigh that loss. Creating a new series, targeted exclusively at consumers looking for male-centric erotica is your only solution. And we've already agreed that's currently impossible.

And your talk about "expanding markets" makes no sense, given your admission that funding a male-centric erotic game in the same vein as DOAX is impossible. You're demonstrating a massive disconnect between the real world, and your desire. There isn't a huge gay male and straight woman untapped market, clamouring at the bit for this type of erotic product. This is demonstrable. These groups form tiny fractions of the total consumers of other types of erotica. Straight males dominate the demand for erotic entertainment. In the other industries, where costs are lower, of course they can be catered for. This is why gay porn and "female friendly" porn are sub-genres of larger markets. However, in an industry with costs as high as this one, targeting tiny fractions of sub-sections of demographics that are demonstrable uninterested is not only idiotic, its financially irresponsible.

You've offering zero rebuttal to any of my rationale, besides trumpeting business-sounding buzz words incorrectly.

You're saying that the men that buy DoAX don't want to see male characters added, and I'm sure that's true for some, but not all, as also evident by the responses in this topic that state they'd have no problem with it.

I'm not saying that the straight female audience, and gay male audience is enough to sustain the market independently, but they certain can be a factor in its success or failure. The reason why I said I don't think a stand alone game is viable at this point is because there's not enough past successes to justify it at the moment, not because it's totally unreasonable. What I'm asking for is a small investment into the idea that by broadening the user base the game appeals to, they can see an increase in sales and positive mind share. I'm not asking them to break the bank and bet the farm on a huge male centric campaign, but to make reasonable smaller scale investments that can be offered alongside the content they currently have planned.

And yes, I know some of what I'm saying is in part to my strong desire to see content that appeals to me in a format that I love, but that doesn't make it foolish or idiotic. Idealistic perhaps, but it's not without merit. Many instances of change result against harsh odds, but I'd rather take a chance and state my feelings then remain silent and complacent. You said in a previous post that you sympathize with gamers in the same position as myself, so perhaps try drawing on a bit of that sympathy and at least entertain the idea that changes like the one I'm purposing are possible. I find the tone of your posts to be condescending, and while I have no issue in discussing this with people that disagree with me, I don't have any interest in proceeding with those that only wish to display a mocking tone while doing so.

 

[Uchigatana]

Where is that awesome GIF of Kiryu grappling with another guy while both are naked in a steam room? Because they need to get in on that.

One of the reasons I bought the game. Here you go. nsfw

https://33.media.tumblr.com/e3dbb6eb9935ff1f99b7e9b209086e24/tumblr_ncwmzuVBtD1rhyxudo1_400.gif

 

[Taruranto]

All three of those series contain heavy amounts of fan service material, including actual sex scenes in the case of the first two. What precludes DoAX from being compared to them?

Because, again, neither ME or FE are essentially soft-core porn games aimed entirely at titillation purpose. They are mass-marked games aimed at everyone. The fanservice part is secondary (despite what the fanbases want people to think =_=)

You don't want to compare DoAX to FE, you want to compare it to other similar products entirely aimed at fanservice. People who buy DoAX do it entirely for masturbatory purpose, they don't want to see naked dudes and I doubt there is going to be a surge of popularity if you suddenly add naked males. Niche games aimed at a particular audience are a thing (And it's not limited to the straight audience, again. As I said, Bara, Yaoi and Otome exist).

Where is that awesome GIF of Kiryu grappling with another guy while both are naked in a steam room? Because they need to get in on that.

http://webmshare.com/play/bL5ve

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Do a DLC plug-in for X3 or X4 of 6-8 of the guys and their own modes, and see how it sells. I don't think a male version of DOAX could immediately stand by itself.

 

[Hours Left]

Because, again, neither ME or FE are essentially soft-core porn games aimed entirely at titillation purpose. They are mass-marked games aimed at everyone. The fanservice part is secondary (despite what the fanbases want people to think =_=)

You don't want to compare DoAX to FE, you want to compare it to other similar products entirely aimed at fanservice. People who buy DoAX do it entirely for masturbatory purpose, they don't want to see naked dudes and I doubt there is going to be a surge of popularity if you suddenly add naked males. Niche games aimed at a particular audience are a thing (And it's not limited to the straight audience, again. As I said, Bara, Yaoi and Otome exist).

I understand what you're saying here. They do offer different experiences, and while I still think they can be compared on the basis of their fan service content, DoAX certainly appeals much more exclusively to that aspect.

But the thing is, there's not really that many pure fan service games that exist that showcase this same type of content in regards to men. Yes, there's examples like No, Thank You!!! and such, but among console games, outside of the otome sector, there's not really not much. Adding men to DoAX would certainly be treading new ground in a lot of respects, but it's the option that makes the most sense to me personally, as the opportunity is there IMO. Of course others may see this differently, but when you're working with limited options and opportunity, gamers that want to see this type of content need to try to capitalize on instances that could be viable, such as this one.

 

[Tingle]

You're saying that the men that buy DoAX don't want to see male characters added, and I'm sure that's true for some, but not all, as also evident by the responses in this topic that state they'd have no problem with it.

They aren't going to add an expensive feature based on indifference. They need a sizable audience actually seeking the feature for it to be worth their time, money, and effort. The game has a very small cast, and any resourced to add male cast members is money that would have to be taken away from something else. The development money isn't coming from nowhere, of course.

I'm not saying that the straight female audience, and gay male audience is enough to sustain the market independently, but they certain can be a factor in its success or failure. The reason why I said I don't think a stand alone game is viable at this point is because there's not enough past successes to justify it at the moment, not because it's totally unreasonable. What I'm asking for is a small investment into the idea that by broadening the user base the game appeals to, they can see an increase in sales and positive mind share. I'm not asking them to break the bank and bet the farm on a huge male centric campaign, but to make reasonable smaller scale investments that can be offered alongside the content they currently have planned.

The fact that there aren't past successes is why its unreasonable. They have no reason to think they should divert their resources away from their core audience to an entirely unknown audience. And again, you aren't asking for a small investment. The game has a small cast, and you want them to add several cast members which have no appeal to the existing base.
A lot of people are responding with "well, ignore the content if you dislike it". I agree with that from an ethical standpoint, but from a financial standpoint, they really shouldn't waste money on content that the purchasers do not want.

And yes, I know some of what I'm saying is in part to my strong desire to see content that appeals to me in a format that I love, but that doesn't make it foolish or idiotic. Idealistic perhaps, but it's not without merit. Many instances of change result against harsh odds, but I'd rather take a chance and state my feelings then remain silent and complacent. You said in a previous post that you sympathize with gamers in the same position as myself, so perhaps try drawing on a bit of that sympathy and at least entertain the idea that changes like the one I'm purposing are possible. I find the tone of your posts to be condescending, and while I have no issue in discussing this with people that disagree with me, I don't have any interest in doing so with those that only wish to display a mocking tone while doing so.

I don't think he is intending to be condescending, its just a negative outlook. Its unfortunate that there doesn't seem to currently be an avenue for the games you are seeking for at this budget, but that is really the situation as it stands now. Its really unfair to say somebody can't sympathize with you while simultaneously disagreeing. Is it bad that the Gay/Female audience can't find similar experiences? Hell yes. Does that make it financially viable for them to add male members in what amounts to a softcore porn game? Unfortunately not.

Its unfair to say that we have to find your ideas to be possible, when they really do not seem that way.