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The death of the Game Console
- Thread starter jeff_rigby
- Start date
An entirely different kettle of fish and a completely different audience. The PC is fundamental to modern human life, it isn't going anywhere and there will always be people who fancy developing a game to play on it.
AstroNut325
Member
I don't see the end of consoles. Ever. But I do wish that all games are released on PC. That was if I want to play Uncharted 4 or Mario Kart 8 at 1080p/60fps... I can.
slavesnyder
Member
I highlighted the most important phrase.
The non-enthusiasts are the majority. They want to be entertained, not educated.
IndoAssassin
Banned
With the next XBOX how can this not be possible? Let's say Microsoft decides to go with just all PC parts this time, none of the special EsRam or whatever exotic part they have.
Let's say the parts of the next Xbox are DDR4 Ram for the CPU, and GDDR5 for the GPU. It is a straight forward PC in a console. Considering Windows OS and XBox OS are now going to be similar in design and with DirectX, this would make developing the PC version of the game so simple. I mean DirectX is now allowing to the metal coding for PCs, so I don't see how developing for the Xbox is any different for developing for the PC considering if all the parts inside are a straight forward PC? This would reduce costs of porting the game as well.
Let's say the parts of the next Xbox are DDR4 Ram for the CPU, and GDDR5 for the GPU. It is a straight forward PC in a console. Considering Windows OS and XBox OS are now going to be similar in design and with DirectX, this would make developing the PC version of the game so simple. I mean DirectX is now allowing to the metal coding for PCs, so I don't see how developing for the Xbox is any different for developing for the PC considering if all the parts inside are a straight forward PC? This would reduce costs of porting the game as well.
This is fine, but there are some who insist on making up horseshit about computers to justify their position. All they need to say is "I prefer to play games on a console."
slavesnyder
Member
And all you need is to say "I prefer to play games on a PC", and that's ferfectly fine.
Oh, I like to play on the PC, too, don't get me wrong. I only have a deep love and understanding for the not-so-gifted.
But if you want to take over the living room with PC gaming, it has to work, look and feel like a console. Also it has to give you not more choice, but less, not more options to tweak, but none. Steam box is just the right way to do it.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
computers are amazing, they are elite, the master race I know this but just prefer to game on consoles.
And my point is that the misconception that PCs are complicated stops them from having the best form of entertainment.
Your comment is incorrect. You are countering my point from a perspective of a buyer being affected. I wasn't saying a PC is an education device in comparison to a console, which is an entertainment device. I was saying that if a person is not swamped in ignorant misconceptions about the complexity of a PC, which requires a completely acceptable amount of research to alleviate, an amount you would expect from anyone willing to spend upwards of £300 on a product, they would realise it is a much better investment if they are really an avid game fan.
The point is, the ease of use and difference between consoles and PCs is growing more minimal and anyone with thinking skills of any note, would have no trouble as it is. When the console performance is reasonably satisfactory and games are not bug riddled, patch requiring messes, I can understand how console players are content, but this current generation is suffering from comparatively poor performance with worse visuals right from the off. The games are coming out riddled with issues and at twice to three times the cost of their PC counterparts. It is only a matter of time before disgruntlement leads to the more casual gamers to start looking for alternatives.
onken
Member
Late but I laughed way too fucking hard at this (and I will excuse the spelling mistake)
I suspect there's a vast number of people who like to use this 'PC's are too complicated' justification for why they choose to game on consoles are just using it because its a popular argument. We all like to justify shit to ourselves, but yea, in truth, I'm pretty sure most would have little to no trouble with the ease of use in PC gaming and many would probably come to enjoy the *optional* configurability that is involved. Tailoring games to how you want them to be is really such a wonderful thing for a gaming enthusiast. And its not difficult. This is where most of the problems do come up, granted, but its only occasional and again, its optional stuff. There's nothing stopping you from just installing a game and playing. You will rarely encounter any noteworthy issues if that's all you want to do these days.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
I disagree with the OP specific points, but I don't think we are as far off from the death of traditional consoles as people think. This doesn't mean video game consoles will die per se, but the market will be marginalized and will likely be changed beyond recognition. There was a time in history when flight and space simulators were the most popular games to buy on PC. These did not appeal to a young demographic, that's why historically PC gaming has skewed towards older people - look up old issues of Computer Gaming World if you can to see this. Great games but the flight sim market could not find a way to reach younger people as PC gaming got younger. As a result, you saw developers drop out of the industry and the flight sim genre - while it still exists, is not a major driving force in PC gaming like it used to be.
Consoles are appealing to an increasingly narrower and narrower demographic. It's not shrinking - yet. According to the ESA, the average gamer is now 30 years old - that's around the age when people start to generate serious disposable income. That's why I think the market is still growing while paradoxically getting older. For gamers under 18, 45-50% of them are female. I don't see a single thing in 2015 that traditional gaming market is doing to reach women to insure that they'll remain gamers at 25 and beyond. Same with kids, I don't see a lot of stuff being marketed to the under 13 crowd that will ensure that kids will grow up with traditional gaming.
Instead what I'm seeing is an industry that is dedicated to sequels and HD Remakes. Which makes sense - the average gamer is 30. 15 years ago, they were playing Halo it would make sense to appeal to their sense of nostalgia. I haven't seen many attempts by traditional companies to create franchises that appeal to today's 8 and 9 year olds so they will be nostalgic for them in 2030. Nintendo is trying but I'm not sure if they're reaching that demographic.
And this is a problem because gaming is not a hobby that people just pick up in their mid 20's and 30's. That means the market ages, more people are going to be dropping out than coming in.
The reason why I think this? I grew up a PC gamer and what I saw happen to the PC game market over the last 20 years, I'm seeing happen to console gaming today. Demographic getting older, developers dropping out of the market, younger gamers being attracted to different devices etc.
Consoles are appealing to an increasingly narrower and narrower demographic. It's not shrinking - yet. According to the ESA, the average gamer is now 30 years old - that's around the age when people start to generate serious disposable income. That's why I think the market is still growing while paradoxically getting older. For gamers under 18, 45-50% of them are female. I don't see a single thing in 2015 that traditional gaming market is doing to reach women to insure that they'll remain gamers at 25 and beyond. Same with kids, I don't see a lot of stuff being marketed to the under 13 crowd that will ensure that kids will grow up with traditional gaming.
Instead what I'm seeing is an industry that is dedicated to sequels and HD Remakes. Which makes sense - the average gamer is 30. 15 years ago, they were playing Halo it would make sense to appeal to their sense of nostalgia. I haven't seen many attempts by traditional companies to create franchises that appeal to today's 8 and 9 year olds so they will be nostalgic for them in 2030. Nintendo is trying but I'm not sure if they're reaching that demographic.
And this is a problem because gaming is not a hobby that people just pick up in their mid 20's and 30's. That means the market ages, more people are going to be dropping out than coming in.
The reason why I think this? I grew up a PC gamer and what I saw happen to the PC game market over the last 20 years, I'm seeing happen to console gaming today. Demographic getting older, developers dropping out of the market, younger gamers being attracted to different devices etc.
old manatee
Banned
Now that I have a high-end PC, tablet, and phone I'm going to stop buying dedicated game consoles and handhelds and use the money to buy a vr headset, racing wheel and pedals, flight stick, steam controller, etc.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Its because hes not. He posts random all over the place bullshit, and makes wild accusations. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Shin Johnpv
Member
With out the licensing fees they get for games released on their system there's no point to this. It is never going to happen.
BTW now that we're into 2015, PS4 and Xbox One are no longer next gen consoles by any stretch of the imagination. They're both current gen consoles.
On February 20th, it will have been two years since PS4 was announced.
For those of you that still call Xbox 360 and PS3 current gen, then what exactly would you say are last gen consoles? PS2? The original X-Box, Gamecube?
Don't forget, Dreamcast was the first console of that gen, launched in 1998/1999.
On February 20th, it will have been two years since PS4 was announced.
For those of you that still call Xbox 360 and PS3 current gen, then what exactly would you say are last gen consoles? PS2? The original X-Box, Gamecube?
Don't forget, Dreamcast was the first console of that gen, launched in 1998/1999.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
I like having a system that is simple and easy to understand. At least I know games will run exactly the same on every ps4, whereas I have to take a number of factors into mind when purchasing a pc game. I doubt I'm the only person that thinks this way.
I have a highish end PC and play my PS4 more these days. Now I have kids and a spare hour a day tops I haven't got time to dick about with settings, drivers, cfg's and whatever else weird shit needed to get a new game running ok.
Beerman462
Member
I feel like I must have the greatest luck ever with PC games. I just buy them on Steam and play them. I think I've got new graphics drivers maybe 3 times in the last 2 years and it wasn't out of necessity. I only tweak games, because I want to. Pretty much every game I've gotten sets itself to an automatic setting based on my hardware and is perfectly playable.
You're not lucky. You're just not bafflingly exaggerating that one time you had an issue and trying to pass it off like every single game takes an hour just to get it working ok.
Also, yes, if you are trying to tweak things by going into config files and ini's and modifying the game in order to get the maximum out of the game and your system, you will likely run into issues here and there. But this stuff isn't necessary.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Unless the game was Dark Souls and used GFWL.
Getting that to run was a massive headache.
jeff_rigby
Banned
The ecosystem created by Microsoft and Sony would allow them to continue to sell games and services.....if you haven't seen this then you aren't dialed into gaming on Current consoles. Microsoft plans to sell games to all Windows 10 platforms with an additional on-line charge for multi-player...is a phone or tablet a game console?
Microsoft stopped charging for Xbox on-line and now follows Sony's lead in charging only for multi-player on-line games. Microsoft rumored to not charge for Windows 10 may be for the same reason and that is:
1) DLNA CVP2 where every Xbox and every Windows 10 platform can support connecting to the Cable TV living room DVR and eventually a Cable Modem to watch TV. The general public will not stand for a separate charge to Watch TV in addition to what they pay for the Internet and Cable TV. Since VOD IPTV is also available with DLNA CVP2 they can't separate the Cable TV VOD from a service like Netflix.
2) The public also won't pay for an OS on a PC connected to the living room TV when everyone else provides it free.
If today it's announced that a entry level Windows 10 is free, it supports but doesn't guarantee this thread that Microsoft is counting on first Xbox 1 then PCs connected to living room TVs with a transition for gaming to PCs sometime after 2016 when the price of a mid performance PC as listed in the OP drops and can run AAA console like games in the living room.
We will have to see what the Windows 10 Xbox app supports and I suspect it brings the Xbox store and ecosystem to the PC and other Windows 10 platforms. I suspect many of the coming Xbox 1 games will be able to run on PCs and for sure there are plans for many cross platform games that will run on Windows 10 platforms including phones. Game streaming between XB1 and PC is also mentioned with there being no reason that game streaming can't be to any Windows 10 platform from a PC or the XB1.
Eventually PCs as DLNA CVP2 living room client, DVR, media hub and AAA game servers to other platforms becomes a large enough demographic to support eliminating the Xbox as a separate Game Console line.
I still can't even run the Steamworks version. I'm glad they removed GFWL so that I could not play Dark Souls.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
I agree, it isn't difficult at all.
I'm just wondering what the future lies and the need for hardware. If services like Playstation Now only get better isn't that the likeliest scenario to where gaming is headed? The consumer may not like this direction but as a developer and service provider it seems to be the most logical progression.
Shin Johnpv
Member
You're wrong, you don't understand the consumer or what you're talking about, and all you do is write walls of text. Just stop.
Gnome Scat
Member
"All those moments will be lost in time, like gigabytes on a Xbox One."
Birgitte2004
Member
And you are downplaying just how many games have issues trying to get to run.
Off the top of my head, in the last couple years, I've had serious issues with Portal 2, Dungeon Defenders, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Dead Rising 3, Titanfall, and Star Wars: The Old Republic.
Just how many of these do I have to have before I profess that PC gaming is, in fact, not as simple as PC enthusiasts want to make it out to be?
These games, you literally had trouble getting them to run at all, or just get them to run as well as you'd like?
Over the last year and a half, I've had issues with..........none. Not a single game had a serious issue just getting it to run normally. I ran into plenty of problems once I started tinkering around with stuff, but in terms of just installing a game and then being able to press play? Not once. Not that I'm saying it never happens, but its not this mess where nothing ever works and you have to spend all your time trying to fix shit like people keep wanting to paint it as.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I have a PC in my living room, and even I don't think its going to kill console gaming.
Now this is reasoning I could agree with on to why consoles are threatened. You have to bring in new blood or your market will eventually die off.
Polioliolio
Member
I say BRING BACK consoles.
Get this.. PS5.. but it has CARTRIDGES and physical instructions and stickers and a tiny figurine in each game box which is basically like an amiibo that unlocks features in other games, but they come with the bloody games and aren't sold separately.
YES!
Get this.. PS5.. but it has CARTRIDGES and physical instructions and stickers and a tiny figurine in each game box which is basically like an amiibo that unlocks features in other games, but they come with the bloody games and aren't sold separately.
YES!
BlackGoku03
Member
I think, as elitists (which we are), we underestimate how much of a barrier PC gaming represents to a lot of folk. That's why I make decent side cash building systems for others... they don't want to deal with it. Then I have to teach them what to look for when buying games, where to get the latest drivers, and which service to use and so on and so on.
PC gaming has never been easier than it has today, however it still isn't at the level where it needs to be for most folk.
Being a sys admin myself, I want simplicity when I use my devices at home. All day everyday, all I hear are people yelling my name to fix shit... I hate bringing that complexity home. This doesn't mean to say I don't play PC games, but if I have the choice, I'll go PS4. Consoles, no matter how much they have to install and update, still present a simpler solution to play games.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
That was far easier for me. Just switched to the beta, and it would actually boot.
Unrelated, but no sane person is ever, ever going to game off their smart TV. I don't even like using Netflicks via mine.
ITT: Hyperboles EVERYWHERE. PC? Oh so DIFFICULT....! OMG, it's so difficult that I can't even find the power buttooon! Oh NOOOOOOO! lol
There are more computers among "folks" out there than there are consoles. If people are able to log in and use their online banks, they are more than likely able figure out that to play a game on Steam they need to click on the (basically) two "buy" and "play" buttons..
There are more computers among "folks" out there than there are consoles. If people are able to log in and use their online banks, they are more than likely able figure out that to play a game on Steam they need to click on the (basically) two "buy" and "play" buttons..
BlackGoku03
Member
Sure that's true but most people try to pay as little as they can for their hardware. Just the other day I had to explain to a mother and her 12 year old daughter that her laptop wasn't powerful enough to run the new Sims game.
They just didn't understand. So I had to explain it to them, specifically why their laptop is no good. Then they had a flurry of questions as to why I couldn't "upgrade" their old ass, cheap laptop.
You're exactly the type of person I'm talking about when I say we underestimate the barrier of cash, knowledge, and the little tech know-how it requires to be a proficient PC gamer. This is why consoles do so well with the general public.
I used to be the same way. Now, with 7 plus years of PC repair and system admin experience, my views have changed drastically. NOT being condescending and looking down on users has opened my mind to reality: if it really was so easy to do, everyone would be doing it.
They aren't.
And once again you, as a PC gamer who obviously doesn't mind knowing hardware and specs, are taking it for granted it's that easy. It really isn't.
For some one who doesn't know about hardware you still have to look at the specs they require as minimum and know if your computer actually meets it. And on top of that, if your computer will actually run it at a level that is satisfactory to you.
With console if it says it works on that console, it will work. You can look up reviews for the game on that specific console to see how it runs and you know that the game should run similarily on your console cause it's the exact same configuration as what the review reviewed. Hell, you can look up video footage of it running on that console to see for yourself how good it looks and how well it runs and you know yours is going to be pretty much the same to extremely similar experience.
Until PCs are standardized (which for what PC gamers want is not a good thing for PC), they aren't going to have the same strengths that make some people prefer console over them. But the things that would turn off a console player from PC are exactly what PC players like about PCs. You're not stuck to one company's idea of good enough and is cheap enough to sell and can make your own and better configuration. You can upgrade later if you want to and not be stuck with the same machine. It allows for more flexibility and yes, a more powerful game machine. Which is why it's kinda ridiculous in the first place to be arguing PC vs. console as if they are competing for the same market, they really aren't. The two markets really have different priorities for what they want. It's like two people arguing over whether a Lamborghini or a Honda Accord is better when one wants the fastest car and the other wants a car that fits four people and requires little maintenance.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Are you Two? Just missing the text formatting and blue links complaints added to the walls of text.You're wrong, you don't understand the consumer or what you're talking about, and all you do is write walls of text. Just stop.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much-does-microsoft-make-from-pc-makers-with-windows-8-1/ said:
Windows 10 free as an upgrade for Windows 7,8 and 8.1
Still no news on Windows 10 for OEMs which is where I expect a Free or nearly free with configuration similar to what Microsoft is offering for Windows 8 on less than 9 inch tablets.
Windows 10 is rumored to be released mid-year = June not October as in the past. June is when the FCC mandate for DLNA CVP2 happens and Windows 10 includes HEVC support. Only AMD's Kaveri and Carrizio support low power (IPTV power mode levels) HEVC. Intel SoCs require the use of the GPU shaders for HEVC with the coming Intel Skylake also supporting low power HEVC. PS4 and XB1 having the same Xtensa DPUs in Kaveri should also support low power HEVC. PS3 can support HEVC with very high power use.
Kaveri has already been released and Carrizio Q2 2015. Q2 2015 is when ooVoo (video chat) is being released for the PS4.
All this occurring around June 2015 when the FCC mandate takes effect.
Shin Johnpv
Member
No I'm not 2, but you're not the technoNostradamus that you think you are either. Every one of your threads is you typing out paragraphs of technobabel and making wild predictions that never come true. Anyone who tries to debate you just gets walls of text of more babel that shows a lack of truly understanding what you're talking about.
Just stop it already.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Which spun off this thread to start another: Let's discuss the future of Xbox and Windows gaming.http://www.pcworld.com/article/2872370/windows-10-powers-up-pc-gaming-with-directx-12-native-dvr-deep-xbox-integration.html said:
Windows 10 blurs the line beteen Console and PC and we haven't yet gotten to cheap low power embedded SoCs that have PS4 performance. If you notice game streaming from XB1 to PC, PC to XB1, Xbox 360 to PC and Xbox 1 as well as from PC, XB1 and Xbox 360? to Phones and Tablets with Windows 10 is in a cite in that thread. This is taking advantage of the "Connected Home". ?
Xbox 360 Mini streaming to PC and XB1 requires a PC or Xbox1 DVD drive. There is also the possibility that vanilla Xbox 360s share resources with XB1 and PC allowing enough to free up ram and processing to encode video to be streamed. I find this unlikely so see below.
Xbox360 streaming to PC and Xbox 1 with current hardware is about as possible as the PS3 doing the same. You can't stream AAA games as encoding takes performance and memory that AAA games use. If they are actually going to stream AAA games from a Xbox 360 then a Xbox 361 or Xbox mini as rumored coming after Windows 10 is likely and that was one of the rumors I latched onto assuming Sony would do the same with the PS3. The PS4 southbridge added to a PS3 in place of the PS3 hardware support for Cell and RSX would support this.
TheSlySoul
Member
Yeah, I think the way developers approach PC gaming will have to be different.
Currently it is now all poor optimization requiring you to have big rigs to play games.
What they will have to do is make games optimized to run on low end and high end equally. We are getting closer to an age where tablet PCs will be cheap. Pretty much Microsoft admitted the next Xbox will pretty much be a specialty PC. Sony will probably go the same route. It will be a specialty OS that does not allow external programs to be downloaded for security sake probably. It will still be the same specs because buying in bulk is cheap.
Justin Bailey
------ ------
Game consoles will never go away not because of specs or features, but because they are easier for the consumer to use to play video games. And that will never change. It's really that simple.
Lightning Count
Member
Why can't we all just get along?
Some people like consoles/some prefer PC's.
Neither are going away anytime soon.
Some people like consoles/some prefer PC's.
Neither are going away anytime soon.
small44
Member
I want all pc games on consoles too
TheSlySoul
Member
Pretty much.
Consoles will never die because of the plug and play aspect of it. However, I think consoles will pretty much be PC's with a restrictive OS on it in the future.
Pretty soon you can play games bought on the Windows Store on your PC and Xbox I think.
You're contradicting yourself. If everyone owns a PC anyway then this is the pro forma casual gaming device. It takes effort and money to buy a console and it's only used for gaming. Gaming consoles are luxury goods. Nearly everyone starts gaming on a PC--only if they really like it (and have the income) do they buy a console; although tablets are taking over in the west for exactly the same reason.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Amys probably forgot she posted this: Microsoft thinking about a machine that would play both console and PC games.
With the release of Windows 10 they are nearly there with the difference between a Windows 10 PC and the XB1 being mostly artificial and consisting of a simple UI on PC hardware which supports statements in this thread about marketing and simple UI.
alexandros
Banned
It is inevitable. It makes zero sense for Microsoft to keep these two platforms separate.
Mithos
Member
To be honest I think that was Microsofts plan all along.