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[Tr1Cky_Tr33]

I just wish going rogue actually required some planning and thought. Now you can just walk up to a player, blow him away with shotgun blast, grab his loot and infinite sprint until timer runs out.

Gz, you just got best quality M16A3 and new yogapants by doing absolutely nothing that requires skill.

I was really surprised they didn't have a limit as to how long you could sprint for. Made getting away too easy but kudos, those guys have amazing stamina!

Also did anyone get duplicate appearance items? Does it look like those look up against what you already have so you always get something new from a drop?

 

[TheSeks]

One thing I don't see mentioned is if someone in your group goes rogue, EVERYONE in that group goes rogue. Which seems like it'll cause griefing issues for people that don't know and get screwed by someone turning around only to have a group of three that didn't want that get slapped with a penalty of one.

 

[Tovarisc]

So in other words, neither of you have ACTUALLY gone rogue or considered what it's like to play one. Because almost none of this is how it works in reality. "going rogue" isn't just shooting someone right before extraction and extracting their shit, that's an option that anyone has, rogue or not. BEING rogue is not rewarding at all, it is a way for everyone to come hunt you down, and all you get out of it is a very small bonus if you survive (which is almost impossible if you do more than gank 1 person off in the middle of nowhere, as I outlined on the last page).

"It should be dangerous", sure, but it has to be actually winnable. If it's not none of the reward you guys are bitching about exists. If I kill you, and take your amazing legendary item, all you have to do is hit respawn and come kill me in the next minute and a half to get your shit, and my shit, and a quarter of my credits, and like 5 keys, and a ton of xp. Who comes out ahead? the non-rogue. by a mile. If I survive and drop my rogue status? Nothings tops you from still killing me and taking your stuff back.

For the record, my PREFERRED playstyle is not to be a rogue, but I sunk close to 30 hours into the beta, I definitely tried everything, as it stands once you actually consider and play both sides you see how lopsided it is in favor of never going rogue except to occasionally gank someone and then run around like a headless chicken until it wears off. This is a pvp zone, it exists to encourage pvp, that incentive isn't there right now.

I went rogue just to see if getting away with it can be as easy as I have seen it to be. It was. I just infinite sprinted until my timer ran out. If I ran into player I just zoomed past them, if I got hit too hard I went around corner to pop a self-heal and then return infinite escape mode. I could have just snowballed fuck out of it and fought my chasers, but why? I got the kill, I got his loot and I was about to be rewarded with at least 200 DZ Bucks for it by just running. It helped for sure that I knew what turns not to take so I didn't end up in dead ends. It's dead ends or want to fight that get most rogues killed.

In my experience at least.

Also, like I mentioned above, people shouldn't look at rogue system through scope of beta. Amount of DZ area we had was pathetic considering it was still matchmaking 24 players into single DZ instance. In release we have whole DZ area in use and to that whole area we get 24 players / instance. At that point it's very tiny amount of people for so large amount of space. At that point going rogue may be even easier and less risk because there is big possibility for no one being around, outside of you and yours 1-2 victims. Suddenly no infinite sprinting required because there is absolutely no one to chase you within next 300 meters, as long you relocate from spot into which you killed those players as they respawn somewhat nearby.

I can't shake the feeling that going rogue will be one of the best ways to gain gear in full release. Loot from victims and cash from surviving.

 

[zufuel]

http://www.ign.com/videos/2016/02/01/8-minutes-of-the-divisions-deadly-underground-ign-first

 

[TheYanger]

I went rogue just to see if getting away with it can be as easy as I have seen it to be. It was. I just infinite sprinted until my timer ran out. If I ran into player I just zoomed past them, if I got hit too hard I went around corner to pop a self-heal and then return infinite escape mode. I could have just snowballed fuck out of it and fought my chasers, but why? I got the kill, I got his loot and I was about to be rewarded with at least 200 DZ Bucks for it by just running. It helped for sure that I knew what turns not to take so I didn't end up in dead ends. It's dead ends or want to fight that get most rogues killed.

In my experience at least.

Also, like I mentioned above, people shouldn't look at rogue system through scope of beta. Amount of DZ area we had was pathetic considering it was still matchmaking 24 players into single DZ instance. In release we have whole DZ area in use and to that whole area we get 24 players / instance. At that point it's very tiny amount of people for so large amount of space. At that point going rogue may be even easier and less risk because there is big possibility for no one being around, outside of you and yours 1-2 victims. Suddenly no infinite sprinting required because there is absolutely no one to chase you within next 300 meters, as long you relocate from spot into which you killed those players as they respawn somewhat nearby.

I can't shake the feeling that going rogue will be one of the best ways to gain gear in full release. Loot from victims and cash from surviving.

There's no way a DZ instance stays at 24 people when the map is 3 times the size, it would just be a ghost town.

 

[Raide]

One thing I don't see mentioned is if someone in your group goes rogue, EVERYONE in that group goes rogue. Which seems like it'll cause griefing issues for people that don't know and get screwed by someone turning around only to have a group of three that didn't want that get slapped with a penalty of one.

I think it notifies you that someone in your group goes Rogue but everyone has different timers. You only go Rogue yourself if you help that Rogue team-mate kill someone.

Sure a group of 4 can take ages to drop off since the timers are all staggered.

 

[TheYanger]

I think it notifies you that someone in your group goes Rogue but everyone has different timers. You only go Rogue yourself if you help that Rogue team-mate kill someone.

Sure a group of 4 can take ages to drop off since the timers are all staggered.

No, everyone goes rogue, but your rogue timers are different because you don't get the extensions for combat if you don't actively participate. IE: If I kill someone and you're nex tot me, we both get 90 seconds, but mine sits there for 5 seconds or so becuase I was in combat. So it'll end up being 85 for you and 90 for me (example, I don't know ifit's 5 seconds or 3 or what).

There's also a range on it, I can kill someone and you're say, a full block away, and you won't inherit my rogue state. But in general, it's groupwide yes.

 

[Tovarisc]

There's no way a DZ instance stays at 24 people when the map is 3 times the size, it would just be a ghost town.

I read interview where dev said that they want DZ to be that dead place where you encounter hostile NPC's often, but meeting another player would be very rare. They want that moment to be event of its own, seeing another player and playing that situation out. Friend or foe etc.

After all DZ is PvEvP zone, not just PvP like some seem to think for some reason. Not pointed at you btw, just seen a lot talk about how DZ is 100% PvP zone. If they doubled player amount / instance for level 30 DZ it would get more packed, but maybe not too much so PvP wouldn't get promoted to beta levels.

Also did anyone get duplicate appearance items? Does it look like those look up against what you already have so you always get something new from a drop?

Amount of appearance items in the beta was tad disappointing. I started to get duplicates from helping civs and killing baddies quite fast. Not that I really mind so much, found decent combo of appearance items early on that I stuck with for whole beta.

 

[Raide]

No, everyone goes rogue, but your rogue timers are different because you don't get the extensions for combat if you don't actively participate. IE: If I kill someone and you're nex tot me, we both get 90 seconds, but mine sits there for 5 seconds or so becuase I was in combat. So it'll end up being 85 for you and 90 for me (example, I don't know ifit's 5 seconds or 3 or what).

There's also a range on it, I can kill someone and you're say, a full block away, and you won't inherit my rogue state. But in general, it's groupwide yes.

Ahh that explains it then. I was wondering why the timer was off. Thanks!

 

[Tovarisc]

You really don't unless you built your guy to be 100% DPS and no health.

My build was balanced between DPS and HP. I would drop within few seconds if I was exposed [e.g. hooking up loot], and I was wearing decent blue gear. Only after I started to stack up legendaries, and after I was fully stacked, I could take full mag of AR fire and not give a fuck because incoming damage just tickled me basically. This was still build with DPS and HP split without intense focus in neither.

Gear matters a lot and in beta best way to get status where no one messed with you was to twink out with legendary gear.

 

[TheYanger]

I read interview where dev said that they want DZ to be that dead place where you encounter hostile NPC's often, but meeting another player would be very rare. They want that moment to be event of its own, seeing another player and playing that situation out. Friend or foe etc.

After all DZ is PvEvP zone, not just PvP like some seem to think for some reason. Not pointed at you btw, just seen a lot talk about how DZ is 100% PvP zone. If they doubled player amount / instance for level 30 DZ it would get more packed, but maybe not too much so PvP wouldn't get promoted to beta levels.

That would kill the dark zone completely. If you never encounter other players, your incentive to not gank them is near 0 - the odds of meaningful retaliation if players are that rare are near zero. it also greatly discourages any soloing (If there are 24 players spread over 6 zones, odds are good my group of 4 can gank any solo player and just stand there unnoticed by anyone else for the 90 seconds, easily, and respawning solo players with no support have no prayer of doing anything in return). Frankly, Just killing random NPCs in the dark zone isn't going to hold anyone's interest, you can do that already out in the world and nobody does. The entire point is the tension between players, if you never encounter them (or rarely) there is no tension, because whoever has the advantage has no incentive not to murder the other side. It makes the ranges on the rogue notifications meaningless also (hardly anyone will hear you scream/see the skull for the first kill of a rogue state). Really, the entire system breaks down when pvp isn't being encouraged in some way or another, and that only happens when you push players together not spread them out.

the AI numbers are going to be way up in the full game. Running into random players will be more rare. Lvl 1-29 in the full game won't be anything like the Beta.

Honestly all this hand-wringing over exactly how the DZ should play based on the Beta is useless. The powers, tech trees and abilities we had this weekend were way, way stripped down. It's also not a straight pvp zone, it's a zone with the potential for either. Trying to prioritize pvp would ruin a lot of the mystery dark zone offers. Level 30 dark zone will probably be closer to Beta and heavier on the pvp side but we still aren't sure how that will turn out

Again, if that's the case they've killed the Dark Zone. If meeting other players is rare it means retaliation isn't a meaningful deterrant because it won't get there in time to make a difference. This encourages EVERYONE to initiate any fight they think they can win.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

There's no way a DZ instance stays at 24 people when the map is 3 times the size, it would just be a ghost town.

the AI numbers are going to be way up in the full game. Running into random players will be more rare. Lvl 1-29 in the full game won't be anything like the Beta.

Honestly all this hand-wringing over exactly how the DZ should play based on the Beta is useless. The powers, tech trees and abilities we had this weekend were way, way stripped down. It's also not a straight pvp zone, it's a zone with the potential for either. Trying to prioritize pvp would ruin a lot of the mystery dark zone offers. Level 30 dark zone will probably be closer to Beta and heavier on the pvp side but we still aren't sure how that will turn out

The entire point is the tension between players, if you never encounter them (or rarely) there is no tension, because whoever has the advantage has no incentive not to murder the other side.

you know what would really kill the tension? Prioritizing and increasing the rogue rewards like you're suggesting. There is no mystery when its just basically Deathmatch

 

[Noisepurge]

the only thing about the environments that bugged me was that did the catastrophe happen like 2 hours ago from where the game starts?

Howcome car engines are still running and there's working lights everywhere?

 

[Helznicht]

Lots of stuff about why pvp sucks in division and.......

The issue with this system is it still is a pvp system encouraging you to not pvp. As long as your timer is reset to 5 minutes for killing the people shooting at you (and paused any time they take a shot at you for 5 seconds), there's not a realistic way to end a manhunt.

People gonna try to kill each other in the DZ, its Human Gamer Nature, regardless of the penalties. Without high penalties it will just be a warzone, which is not Massive's vision of the DZ experience.

You are the guy they are targeting the system at if you didn't notice. The one on the fence, the one thinking its not worth it. You keep the balance.

There are many that are going to go rogue even with even higher penalties, because they find pvp the only fun, find taking others stuff fun, griefing is fun. Make going rogue easier to win and the fence sitters will be going rogue more often, meaning that the DZ will be more rogue players than pve players, and then it breaks down into just a pvp arena.

I think toward the beta end, many were happy with their loadouts/couldnt find better, so they just resorted to doing manhunts/griefing. which made getting away a bit tougher. If there is always better loot to find, the mix of pve vs pvp will be more balanced, meaning better chance to get away with murder. I mean if i had 3-5 items to extract i am not leaving extraction to go on a manhunt, i will use the manhunt time to get an open extraction.

 

[UKUMI0]

the only thing about the environments that bugged me was that did the catastrophe happen like 2 hours ago from where the game starts?

Howcome car engines are still running and there's working lights everywhere?

AFAIK its about 18 days since the outbreak.

 

[TheYanger]

People gonna try to kill each other in the DZ, its Human Gamer Nature, regardless of the penalties. Without high penalties it will just be a warzone, which is not Massive's vision of the DZ experience.

You are the guy they are targeting the system at if you didn't notice. The one on the fence, the one thinking its not worth it. You keep the balance.

There are many that are going to go rogue even with even higher penalties, because they find pvp the only fun, find taking others stuff fun, griefing is fun. Make going rogue easier to win and the fence sitters will be going rogue more often, meaning that the DZ will be more rogue players than pve players, and then it breaks down into just a pvp arena.

I think toward the beta end, many were happy with their loadouts/couldnt find better, so they just resorted to doing manhunts/griefing. which made getting away a bit tougher. If there is always better loot to find, the mix of pve vs pvp will be more balanced, meaning better chance to get away with murder. I mean if i had 3-5 items to extract i am not leaving extraction to go on a manhunt, i will use the manhunt time to get an open extraction.

But that's just it, because it's beta and I could have bis gear in 3 hours I had no penalty, without that I would NEVER go rogue. The only time it's actually good to go rogue, is to stand by someone at an extraction, blow their brains out 5 seconds before it gets there and ensure you get their loot, then run away. Does anyone actually want that to be the only smart way to pvp? That's not fun for either side.

the AI numbers are going to be way up in the full game. Running into random players will be more rare. Lvl 1-29 in the full game won't be anything like the Beta.

Honestly all this hand-wringing over exactly how the DZ should play based on the Beta is useless. The powers, tech trees and abilities we had this weekend were way, way stripped down. It's also not a straight pvp zone, it's a zone with the potential for either. Trying to prioritize pvp would ruin a lot of the mystery dark zone offers. Level 30 dark zone will probably be closer to Beta and heavier on the pvp side but we still aren't sure how that will turn outyou know what would really kill the tension? Prioritizing and increasing the rogue rewards like you're suggesting. There is no mystery when its just basically Deathmatch

There's no mystery when nobody intentionally goes rogue because there's no good reason to do so either.

 

[Senhua]

DZ like in closed beta is too small I agree, this is PVPVE not PVP area only. I will rarely encountered an AI if the map will this small, so that left what : Deathmatch mode like uncharted style?

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

I know this wouldn't fit in the game world, but damn, how I would love to see once an hour all the corpses in the dark zone come to life forcing everybody in the dark zone work together to survive lol.

 

[Future PhaZe]

They need a stealth tree for ganking

Seemed like everytime I went rogue in what I thought was an isolated environment, a couple of seconds later I pop my radar again and 6 guys are racing after me

 

[dancrane212]

Ooooh shit you know what, you're right. I have some things double-bound on the steam controller to accomplish exactly what you want here. I have A + left stick press bound to a paddle. Damn the Steam controller is great.

It's the biggest feature I miss when switching from my Steam Machine with that controller to my XB1 with the Elite. Hopefully Massive will patch in an option to have the A button trigger sprinting as well.

 

[Noisepurge]

I'm just curious about the Destiny folks, did you like this game (the little that was accessible)? Was it what you expected? Did it fall short? Did it exceed expectations? Is this the game that will replace Destiny for you? Why or why not?

I remember seeing a ton of Destiny-GAF before beta release, so I'm just personally curious about your status post beta.

Destiny has nothing to play besides Trials so this will replace it in part until Bungie tosses us some more breadcrumbs

I liked this beta, will be fun with friends to sneak about and try to find some guns for sometime. Don't think this game will have as long lasting appeal as Destiny though.

 

[Broadbandito]

http://www.ign.com/videos/2016/02/01/8-minutes-of-the-divisions-deadly-underground-ign-first

DOT icons??? Stunned?

I don't remember seeing anything like this in the beta

 

[Crossing Eden]

the only thing about the environments that bugged me was that did the catastrophe happen like 2 hours ago from where the game starts?

Howcome car engines are still running and there's working lights everywhere?

All the Division short films say 18 days afterwards, so I think it'll go with that. I recommend everyone give those a watch btw, the intro of the game wasn't in the beta so I expect that it'll give a lot of context considering how the beta starts.

 

[Tovarisc]

DOT icons??? Stunned?

I don't remember seeing anything like this in the beta

I guess it's icon for stunned / confused. That smoke effect around NPC's looks a lot like teargas grenades effect.

 

[2002whitegt]

I'm going to miss the character I created, but I am so ready for the main game.

I really hope there's more to do in the DZ than just PvP, really felt the last few days that there was people who had their max loadout just going around and messing with people. So many times I'm shooting some rioters only to be shot from behind and killed by other players. Half the time I didn't even have loot.

Either way I'm hyped and ready for the main game.

 

[Raide]

They need a stealth tree for ganking

Seemed like everytime I went rogue in what I thought was an isolated environment, a couple of seconds later I pop my radar again and 6 guys are racing after me

Maybe have something in Tech that is active Camo. Would be handy for Ganking and Surviving being Ganked.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I guess it's icon for stunned / confused. That smoke effect around NPC's looks a lot like teargas grenades effect.

I believe it's the Dazed icon for Tear Gas. Vision blurred and all that. I saw the icons, though it was a bit more rare as enemy health bars aren't up 100% of the time.

 

[Bizazedo]

My build was balanced between DPS and HP. I would drop within few seconds if I was exposed [e.g. hooking up loot], and I was wearing decent blue gear. Only after I started to stack up legendaries, and after I was fully stacked, I could take full mag of AR fire and not give a fuck because incoming damage just tickled me basically. This was still build with DPS and HP split without intense focus in neither.

Gear matters a lot and in beta best way to get status where no one messed with you was to twink out with legendary gear.

So you agree with me. Because when the Beta first started and before everyone was twinked, I was able to hook up my bag to the rope before getting gunned down too.

Yes, if you're newb geared and some high end geared guy goes for you, obviously you go down quicker. Equivalently geared and more balanced builds? Na, won't be instant.

And again this ignores actually using one's brain.

I went rogue just to see if getting away with it can be as easy as I have seen it to be. It was. I just infinite sprinted until my timer ran out. If I ran into player I just zoomed past them, if I got hit too hard I went around corner to pop a self-heal and then return infinite escape mode. I could have just snowballed fuck out of it and fought my chasers, but why? I got the kill, I got his loot and I was about to be rewarded with at least 200 DZ Bucks for it by just running. It helped for sure that I knew what turns not to take so I didn't end up in dead ends. It's dead ends or want to fight that get most rogues killed.

So if I keep an eye out and bolt whenever I feel uneasy, a Rogue should also never kill me using this outline.

 

[UKUMI0]

DOT icons??? Stunned?

I don't remember seeing anything like this in the beta

There were two grenades we didn't see in the beta, one was an EMP grenade, forget what the other one was but I assume this is it.

 

[Broadbandito]

controller prompts were xbox buttons. wondering if this was pc or x1 footage. Did the console versions have the text when you would wave or salute someone? I don't remember seeing that either.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

It's the biggest feature I miss when switching from my Steam Machine with that controller to my XB1 with the Elite. Hopefully Massive will patch in an option to have the A button trigger sprinting as well.

They seem to have the right mentality with customization in general, so I could see that being the case.

 

[UKUMI0]

controller prompts were xbox buttons. wondering if this was pc or x1 footage. Did the console versions have the text when you would wave or salute someone? I don't remember seeing that either.

These weren't in the beta, but this could be a newer build?

 

[Future PhaZe]

they also need to include better UI options for using things like incendiary bullets--was very awkward on the PC

 

[TheYanger]

These weren't in the beta, but this could be a newer build?

PC version. It was like this. You can chat via text too.

 

[Bizazedo]

they also need to include better UI options for using things like incendiary bullets--was very awkward on the PC

Wasn't exactly easy to use on the console, either .

 

[Tecnniqe]

controller prompts were xbox buttons. wondering if this was pc or x1 footage. Did the console versions have the text when you would wave or salute someone? I don't remember seeing that either.

Chat was only in the PC version.

 

[UKUMI0]

PC version. It was like this. You can chat via text too.

Doesn't mean these notifications won't come to consoles.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I actually did see text pop up for emotes on PS4 but I can only specifically recall seeing it once. I think it may require that you have your reticle on someone.

 

[ScatheZombie]

But that's just it, because it's beta and I could have bis gear in 3 hours I had no penalty, without that I would NEVER go rogue. The only time it's actually good to go rogue, is to stand by someone at an extraction, blow their brains out 5 seconds before it gets there and ensure you get their loot, then run away. Does anyone actually want that to be the only smart way to pvp? That's not fun for either side.

There's no mystery when nobody intentionally goes rogue because there's no good reason to do so either.

There shouldn't be a good reason to go Rogue other than what's already true - you can steal loot and kill people. That alone is more than enough incentive for the vast majority of people. Why? Because people were going Rogue on the very first day, the very first hours of the beta - and those were actually some of the most tense and interesting moments over all 4 days.

You what wasn't tense and interesting? The last day of the beta when every asshole (myself included) was just going Rogue because why the fuck not. There was no tension because everyone was an enemy. It was not interesting because everyone was a gank squad. Without severe penalties and drawbacks to going Rogue, the game will be much closer to day 4 than day 1, and that would be awful and a shame.

You don't need to incentivize going Rogue through currency, there's already the item incentive and the general douchebag incentive. There needs to be a risk to the risk/reward system, and if you could profit via currency from going Rogue, then there's really no risk.

 

[Tecnniqe]

I really want to watch some EoW scenario like whats going on in Division right about now :| Anyone got any tips for movie/series?

 

[ScatheZombie]

I really want to watch some EoW scenario like whats going on in Division right about now :| Anyone got any tips for movie/series?

There's a 30 minute short based on the game on Amazon Prime right now.

 

[Raide]

There's a 30 minute short based on the game on Amazon Prime right now.

Started watching Tom Clancy's The Division: Agent Origins on YouTube. Is there a certain order I should watch them or is the Amazon Prime one basically all of them squished together?

 

[robertlebrone]

I'm just curious about the Destiny folks, did you like this game (the little that was accessible)? Was it what you expected? Did it fall short? Did it exceed expectations? Is this the game that will replace Destiny for you? Why or why not?

I remember seeing a ton of Destiny-GAF before beta release, so I'm just personally curious about your status post beta.

I quit Destiny a month or two ago? Nothing short of Destiny 2 (not a content patch, full on Destiny 2) will bring me back to that game at this point. So this will fill a nice gap for me. It exceeded my already lofty expectations and then some. Can't wait for March 8th.

 

[mosdl]

PC version. It was like this. You can chat via text too.

I could never figure out how to text chat, there was no listed key bindings.

 

[Dineren]

I could never figure out how to text chat, there was no listed key bindings.

I'm pretty sure you just hit enter to bring up the chat box.

 

[mosdl]

I'm pretty sure you just hit enter to bring up the chat box.

Literally the only key I didn't try, hah. I hope we get the emote radial menu on pc as well.

 

[Raide]

OK....Tom Clancy's The Division: Agent Origins shorts are some of the best advertising for the game since the Halo 5 Hunt The Truth stuff. Really damn good. Just love seeing how the Division is a thing made up of people and different services. I just hope they translate some of this into actual meaningful gameplay.

 

[DOWN]

the only thing about the environments that bugged me was that did the catastrophe happen like 2 hours ago from where the game starts?

Howcome car engines are still running and there's working lights everywhere?

I mean it's still winter and their Christmas decorations are up from before the outbreak. It's within just a few weeks.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Maaan Ubisoft gotta get into series with this thing.

 

[Tovarisc]

Maaan Ubisoft gotta get into series with this thing.

You never know what they may do if that Assassin's Creed movie does well.