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The Division Beta Thread: Make Manhattan Great Again
- Thread starter Smash88
- Start date
- Status
You guys should be filling out the polls over in the official forums(I can not answer in that forum...?)
http://forums.ubi.com/forumdisplay.php/1120-Beta-Intel
They don't allow filthy drop shooters to vote
I guess I'm in the minority about this but here goes. I like the concept of the DZ in theory but in practice i wasn't a huge fan. It mostly comes down to the mechanics of rogue status. The ability to go rogue at the last second of an extraction, steal loot, and no longer be rogue by the time I get back seems like it will get old fast. Also accidentally going rogue due to friendly fire is frustrating. I don't want them to remove PvP from the DZ, but in its current form I don't think I would find it enjoyable.
I would much prefer a way to flag as rogue. Possibly needing to before entering an extraction point. Create a dynamic of attacking and defending players. Instead of gankers and gankees. Also as a way to prevent accidental rogue status.
I'm sure someone will say it is too carebear, but right now it seems too prone to griefing for my personal taste.
I would much prefer a way to flag as rogue. Possibly needing to before entering an extraction point. Create a dynamic of attacking and defending players. Instead of gankers and gankees. Also as a way to prevent accidental rogue status.
I'm sure someone will say it is too carebear, but right now it seems too prone to griefing for my personal taste.
Noisepurge
Member
no slot yet.
the current protective breathing masks might get paintjobs first though, that would be easier to implement.
ah, ok. interesting if they won't do that. maybe the closed beta was successful enough for them to get enough info about it.
SJRB
Gold Member
I don't know where this open beta stuff came from, but the guys on the stream were pretty clear that it's over until the game launches in March.
Why would they beta a game two weeks before launch? This beta gave everything they needed [server stress testing on all platforms, connectivity, gameplay tweaks, loot balances, etc.]
We just have to sit tight for 5 weeks and we'll be back in action.
The news of an open beta came from Xbox IT's Facebook page where it stated the open beta went from the 16th to the 21st of February. It also noted Xbox got a 24h exclusive access.
Noisepurge
Member
I prefer it to be "the wild west". And you shouldn't be going all rambo and accidentally shooting friendlies. Confrontations should and will happen when someone is trying to steal loot, and there will be chaos then. Friendly fire is a thing to watch out so pick your shots.
But just exploring and sneaking about alone or with friends will have a constant tension of not knowing when you will be attacked.
The only thing i worry is the "threat" values of silenced weapons and near misses with snipers and missiles. Those are not registered as hostile actions and you can't defend yourself until you've been (possibly mortally) damaged first.
They don't allow filthy drop shooters to vote
Pah!
I'm the elite of the community! The 0,1% of the 4%!
Laughed so hard in the closing hours of beta, I have a history with Ubisoft's NPC's and voice actors dropping all kinds of lines. I was minding my own business, getting ready to take a screenshot when this random NPC walked up to me, looked at me, says "you are an asshole" and walks away:
Having overall enjoyed the beta, there are issues that should be addressed.
PVP: Cheating and exploits prove a problem for most popular games, even assuming Division manages to put a stop to it, beta showed other tendencies that are difficult to address with mere number balancing. I think Massive should implement more AI parties, some allied and some neutral, available for a contract to escort the player/cargo. Within a week of launch, the necessity of being in a team will be highlighted, even more so if cheating persists. Seamless transition between online/offline opens up options, leveling up a AI team in PVE by running missions in order to take that AI team to DZ when you don't have enough players to form a real team. Game could stand to benefit from adding or at least branching out existing factions.
PVE: There can never be enough content with games of this scale so I'm not even expecting variety, just missions made well enough to withstand the grind fatigue as long as possible. Singleplayer, coop, online and combining them in new ways, aspect of base building, setting offers variety of mission options, it all points to potential for a truly great game.
Having overall enjoyed the beta, there are issues that should be addressed.
PVP: Cheating and exploits prove a problem for most popular games, even assuming Division manages to put a stop to it, beta showed other tendencies that are difficult to address with mere number balancing. I think Massive should implement more AI parties, some allied and some neutral, available for a contract to escort the player/cargo. Within a week of launch, the necessity of being in a team will be highlighted, even more so if cheating persists. Seamless transition between online/offline opens up options, leveling up a AI team in PVE by running missions in order to take that AI team to DZ when you don't have enough players to form a real team. Game could stand to benefit from adding or at least branching out existing factions.
PVE: There can never be enough content with games of this scale so I'm not even expecting variety, just missions made well enough to withstand the grind fatigue as long as possible. Singleplayer, coop, online and combining them in new ways, aspect of base building, setting offers variety of mission options, it all points to potential for a truly great game.
I feel the same way. I got my fill of the beta until the full game comes out.
The one thing I need them to fix Is going to be the manhunt system. There was a great post on reddit with the idea for a rogue safehouse that randomly pops up once you've survived 5 minutes in manhunt status to let a rogue escape. I don'tknow if THAT is the best idea (But it's a good one), but in general if they don't do something pvp is going to happen much less frequently on live than it is in beta where there are no consequences and nothing worth buying once you get a small amount of money. It's virtually impossible to 'survive' a manhunt as it stands, yet it's got almost all downside.
For people that are just like "I like seeing rogues it's fun to kill them" (along with all of the reddit crowd casuals that want it to be pve only or be MORE punishing somehow for being the bad guy), let me explain how that stuff works:
If you accidentily shoot someone you get 15 seconds of rogue and it goes away fast, if you book it you should always survive this.
If you kill someone you get 90 seconds, this is still pretty short and a good running pattern will USUALLY get you out of it alive. This rewards 200 credits if you survive to the timer end.
The problem is, every new person you kill extends your max timer, until you've killed 5 which reaches Manhunt status. In Manhunt status you can be seen by everyone on the map and are worth a shitload of rewards so basically everyone wants to kill you, keep in mind the only benefit to killing anyone thusfar is being able to loot their items, which once you're at manhunt is incredibly risky since it's rare you're just fighitng one person at a time.
"But just don't kill anyone else!" - no, that's ALMOST impossible. with a 5 minute timer and a target the size of the world on your ass, the only way you can avoid a firefight at all is just by running laps around the zone and praying you don't barrel into anyone headfirst - this means the entire server has to be actively avoiding you OR too dumb to cut you off in some tom and jerry antics. Holing up is not a realistic option, because you're basically dooming yourself to fighting permanently until you run out of ammo or supplies by doing this.
Your survival actively comes down to pure rng at this point and you're actively discouraged from fighting. Let me put it this way: The main pvp mechanic in the game is only beneficial to one side if they STOP pvping and run laps for 5 minutes. Now, it's not impossible to survive, but it's beyond anything you can control with skill as it stands now. Like I said, when I've survived it it literally came down to just not running into anyone willing to take a shot at us, by happenstance.
Oh, I probably forgot to mention earlier, anyone shooting at you pauses your timer too, even if you don't fire back. So you can't just run in straight lines, you've got to weave like crazy and abuse routes through the sewers and buildings so that people can't hit you ever. All in all it's just a crazy system, because you get NO reward if you can't survive this. There isn't anything gained by the rogue for doing this and only huge potential losses, since those scale upwards with your rogue status.
So, imagine all that happens and you actually survive your manhunt, how awesome is it?!...777 credits. That's the reward of baseline manhunt survival. I don't know if it scales up if you somehow murder more people during that time (which is actively preventing you from cashing out). If you've got say 3,000 credits on you when you die at this point, you stand to lose almost half of that, like 1300 or so, and yet your reward for pulling off the near impossible is barely half that. This is fucked. In beta there are a few reasons you saw it anyway:
-It's beta, nobody cares about credits and dying has no penalty anyone is worried about.
-MOST of the people you see going rogue into manhunts are the assholes abusing the beta boundaries to get freebie safezones. Those don't exist on live.
-Very few NPC spawns, so running circles is relatively safe
-Smaller map is harder to run laps around without getting tagged, true, but there are like 20 people or something on a beta server, presumably this will be larger on live, so you can luck into just not finding too many people a bit more realistically as it stands.
The main reason was the first one though. If I actually care about my DZ xp or my credits, I cannot see a reason to ever go rogue beyond blasting one person and hiding for 90 seconds for the freebie 200 bonus. Anyway, this went on kind of long, and the thread moved fast so maybe it's already been brought up, but unless release is VASTLY different for some reason I think pvp is going to taper off a lot if this isn't changed.
EDIT:
Oh, and overall between alpha and beta the more I play the game the more I like it. the details are so good too.
The snow on and inside of that traffic cone (as well as everything else) accumulating, and falling off when you kick it, then re-building up...melting, footprints, that stuff is amazing. The weather effects are insane too, when it gets snowstorm-y it's so hard to see and awesome.
For people that are just like "I like seeing rogues it's fun to kill them" (along with all of the reddit crowd casuals that want it to be pve only or be MORE punishing somehow for being the bad guy), let me explain how that stuff works:
If you accidentily shoot someone you get 15 seconds of rogue and it goes away fast, if you book it you should always survive this.
If you kill someone you get 90 seconds, this is still pretty short and a good running pattern will USUALLY get you out of it alive. This rewards 200 credits if you survive to the timer end.
The problem is, every new person you kill extends your max timer, until you've killed 5 which reaches Manhunt status. In Manhunt status you can be seen by everyone on the map and are worth a shitload of rewards so basically everyone wants to kill you, keep in mind the only benefit to killing anyone thusfar is being able to loot their items, which once you're at manhunt is incredibly risky since it's rare you're just fighitng one person at a time.
"But just don't kill anyone else!" - no, that's ALMOST impossible. with a 5 minute timer and a target the size of the world on your ass, the only way you can avoid a firefight at all is just by running laps around the zone and praying you don't barrel into anyone headfirst - this means the entire server has to be actively avoiding you OR too dumb to cut you off in some tom and jerry antics. Holing up is not a realistic option, because you're basically dooming yourself to fighting permanently until you run out of ammo or supplies by doing this.
Your survival actively comes down to pure rng at this point and you're actively discouraged from fighting. Let me put it this way: The main pvp mechanic in the game is only beneficial to one side if they STOP pvping and run laps for 5 minutes. Now, it's not impossible to survive, but it's beyond anything you can control with skill as it stands now. Like I said, when I've survived it it literally came down to just not running into anyone willing to take a shot at us, by happenstance.
Oh, I probably forgot to mention earlier, anyone shooting at you pauses your timer too, even if you don't fire back. So you can't just run in straight lines, you've got to weave like crazy and abuse routes through the sewers and buildings so that people can't hit you ever. All in all it's just a crazy system, because you get NO reward if you can't survive this. There isn't anything gained by the rogue for doing this and only huge potential losses, since those scale upwards with your rogue status.
So, imagine all that happens and you actually survive your manhunt, how awesome is it?!...777 credits. That's the reward of baseline manhunt survival. I don't know if it scales up if you somehow murder more people during that time (which is actively preventing you from cashing out). If you've got say 3,000 credits on you when you die at this point, you stand to lose almost half of that, like 1300 or so, and yet your reward for pulling off the near impossible is barely half that. This is fucked. In beta there are a few reasons you saw it anyway:
-It's beta, nobody cares about credits and dying has no penalty anyone is worried about.
-MOST of the people you see going rogue into manhunts are the assholes abusing the beta boundaries to get freebie safezones. Those don't exist on live.
-Very few NPC spawns, so running circles is relatively safe
-Smaller map is harder to run laps around without getting tagged, true, but there are like 20 people or something on a beta server, presumably this will be larger on live, so you can luck into just not finding too many people a bit more realistically as it stands.
The main reason was the first one though. If I actually care about my DZ xp or my credits, I cannot see a reason to ever go rogue beyond blasting one person and hiding for 90 seconds for the freebie 200 bonus. Anyway, this went on kind of long, and the thread moved fast so maybe it's already been brought up, but unless release is VASTLY different for some reason I think pvp is going to taper off a lot if this isn't changed.
EDIT:
Oh, and overall between alpha and beta the more I play the game the more I like it. the details are so good too.
The snow on and inside of that traffic cone (as well as everything else) accumulating, and falling off when you kick it, then re-building up...melting, footprints, that stuff is amazing. The weather effects are insane too, when it gets snowstorm-y it's so hard to see and awesome.
I had some lady come up to me and say she was freezing, then I gave her a candy bar and she dropped a winter jacket for me and continued to shiver. I laughed. Stupid npc
I agree, I liked the danger and the paranoia that pervaded the whole thing. Conversation with a friend at the extraction zone whilst we waited for the chopper:
Me: "Man this chopper better hurry up"
Him: "We've got 2 guys coming up the ramp....."
Me: "They got loot?"
Him: "........Ah, no. Don't think so...."
Me: "Only one reason to be at the extraction zone with no loot, right"
Him: "Banter?"
Me: "Gankers baby, the're after my phat loot. Ain't nobody getting their mitts on my Bold Winter Parka!"
Him: "See what they do?"
Me: "Give them a minute....."
Him: "Shoot first, just in case?"
Me: "Take them out? Straight up murder bruv"
Him: "Lets do it - safest course of action right?"
Me: "Go on then"
So we went rogue, and took them out. It was motivated entirely by a suspicion and a desire to protect our own loot. For all we know, these two guys might have been entirely innocent, new players just seeing what the extraction zone was all about....but we murdered them anyway, just to be sure.
That's one of the things I love about the DZ stuff, its so uncertain. Group alliances can change on the wind, there is the constant danger of being backstabbed - happened to me numerous times, and I've lost lots of loot because of it - but its so fun, I can't begrudge anyone what I occasionally do.
Another time, there were 4 of us at the extraction, all warily circling each other, but upon realising we all had loot, ie all had a vested interest in the extraction process, it was a jumping jack central for a minute (lol), we all attached our loot, waved and went our separate ways.
And sometimes its just fun to be a complete bastard, me and the same friend exploring a contaminated zone; it was all cleared out, at the end a single guy, obviously loaded up with loot. He knew what was going to happen. We knew what we were going to do. The vultures circled. He died, we took his stuff. And then got ganked on the way to the extraction, so karma.
Its just a load of fun and allows for all kinds of stuff to happen. When someone goes rogue in a big group, it all goes mental as everyone starts shooting.
Xamtheking
Member
All I want is a Destiny / Divison crossover in 2030
Bungisoft plz
Bungisoft plz
I agree with everything you said here but I just want to correct some information. The amount of DZ Funds you get from surviving changes depending on your level. The rewards you mentioned (200 for surviving Lvl 1, 777 for surviving Manhunt) will change depending on your progression.
Though I do agree that going Rogue at the moment is more downside then upside. Personally my favorite suggestion for fixing this is when you reach Manhunt, you have a timer that doesn't reset after every kill, you just have to outlive it.
Division is actually the prequel to Destiny. the virus was just the beginning before the Darkness takes over.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
Really enjoyed my time with the Beta.
On the fence about the purchase though because of its similarities to Destiny.
I put a lot of hours into Destiny but really just doing the same shit over and over again.
On the fence about the purchase though because of its similarities to Destiny.
I put a lot of hours into Destiny but really just doing the same shit over and over again.
Sure, the numbers are irrelevent though, the relative numbers are what matter. A mode that is 100 times harder to survive than a level 1 rogue status rewards ALMOST 4 times as much reward, and has something like double the risk (hard to test this without controlling it a bit more).
Also agree that just not extending once you hit manhunt is probably the simplest solution. That still might encourage running rather than standing ground, but at least both strats would be viable. All in all a manhunt should encourage pvp, not discourage it. It draws enemy agents to you, and then tells you that fighting back is going to fuck you over.
I think it would be better if a manhunt gave a circular zone, with the rogue agent somewhere within it, rather than just a target on their back allowing everyone to pinpoint the exact position. This would still give players an idea where the rogue was, but they would still have to do a bit of manhunting to find them. It would give a clever rogue the opportunity to go to ground and use cover to sneak about to avoid getting taken down.
I'm imagining like in Watch_Dogs in the multiplayer hacking mode where the zone would shrink the longer a hack went on, gradually forcing the two players together.
I'm imagining like in Watch_Dogs in the multiplayer hacking mode where the zone would shrink the longer a hack went on, gradually forcing the two players together.
I mention that they change depending on your progression because when you're level 30, the reward would possibly be much more desirable.
EL CUCO
Member
So since there's alot of Destiny comparisons happening in the Internet, after playing the Division beta and putting it up against the Destiny alpha/beta experience, I'd say the Division takes this one for me. The small slice of map we were given to explore in the Division was at the very least double the size and depth of the entire Cosmodrome. Plenty of vendors that actually refreshed their inventory daily (unlike Destiny) gave you an extra reason to jump in the DZ, not to mention what we got in there was an amazing experience.
Destiny beta did have alot less bugs tho. That's something I hope Ubi works hard to hammer out.
I love Destiny and spent/spend alot of time on it thanks to fantastic gunplay and friends but I dont think I have time for both of these RPG shoot and looters so I'm keeping a very close ear to what Ubi says and does going forward. It's also encouraging to see the Division seems like it might have a very active and healthy community in its hands. (I got love for Rogues too). Clan support would be pretty cool.
Overall I'm excited to hear more about the end game content that Ubi has planned and how they plan on supporting this game post launch. The last Ubi game I played online religiously was GR:FS and have to admit that the speed that they would update/fix stuff wasn't great.
I'm optimistic about the Division tho.
Destiny beta did have alot less bugs tho. That's something I hope Ubi works hard to hammer out.
I love Destiny and spent/spend alot of time on it thanks to fantastic gunplay and friends but I dont think I have time for both of these RPG shoot and looters so I'm keeping a very close ear to what Ubi says and does going forward. It's also encouraging to see the Division seems like it might have a very active and healthy community in its hands. (I got love for Rogues too). Clan support would be pretty cool.
Overall I'm excited to hear more about the end game content that Ubi has planned and how they plan on supporting this game post launch. The last Ubi game I played online religiously was GR:FS and have to admit that the speed that they would update/fix stuff wasn't great.
I'm optimistic about the Division tho.
It's Team Fortress 2 all over again!
So devs say that official marketing arms for Microsoft that promote Xbox platforms and games were just trolling / spreading baseless rumors to everyone? Bold statement to make about official co-op partner. For e.g. Xbox Hungary [verified account!] still has February release schedule up in twitter and it shows open beta; https://twitter.com/Xbox360Hungary/status/694074200923963393
Destiny was fun for its time but Division looks like the next MP game I might be focused on on consoles. disappointed I didn't get into other MP games like Halo 5 for my fix. Division is def the next one to grab me.
Unless the actual scaling changes, it won't though. Especially since you basically cannot get that reward. The reward could be almost anything, if the beta barriers didn't exist almost nobody would have survived a manhunt, relatively speaking.
Change the numbers to 2000, 7777, doesn't matter.
My first part of my exploration of the map is now up on Youtube. Second part will follow shortly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnq0jrQDPy4
This was a livestream,so sometimes I talk to people in the chat.
I made it through about 1/3 of the non dark zone map, going super slowly and checking every detail I could find.
Hope it's worth a watch to people!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnq0jrQDPy4
This was a livestream,so sometimes I talk to people in the chat.
I made it through about 1/3 of the non dark zone map, going super slowly and checking every detail I could find.
Hope it's worth a watch to people!
Disheveled_Zen
Member
After playing on both PC and PS4, I'm pretty torn on which version to get. I only know about 1 person playing on PS4 but none yet on PC. I do like seeing it on my large TV with the PS4, but the PC graphics are quite nice when you get everything tuned.
Anyone have any guesses on which will have the stronger / longer lasting community?
Anyone have any guesses on which will have the stronger / longer lasting community?
way less cheaters on consoles if you plan on doing MP stuff more often, imo.
You guys should be filling out the polls over in the official forums(I can not answer in that forum...?
http://forums.ubi.com/forumdisplay.php/1120-Beta-Intel
I love the second poll. "Which consumable is your favorite?" Well considering I only really used the medkit I guess thats my favorite. And seeing the results everyone loves health.
arts&crafts
Member
Did you find anything tucked away? Secret chests? easter eggs?
I loved the beta, but I have concerns about the story. You have this beautiful looking world that I hope just isn't all eye candy for repetitive missions. I am hoping against hope the game doesn't begin after the virus outbreak, but just before it, so that as a (secret) Division Agent you can see and experience the shit going down. Like the Last of Us intro, just longer.
But I doubt it. The "Echos" seem to be a cheap way to tell the story up to this point. They are pretty terrible at that, a bunch of sprites and audio where half the time you can't tell what was going on. Cheaper than rendering a real cut scene I suppose.
But I doubt it. The "Echos" seem to be a cheap way to tell the story up to this point. They are pretty terrible at that, a bunch of sprites and audio where half the time you can't tell what was going on. Cheaper than rendering a real cut scene I suppose.
ToyMachine228
Member
So what's the deal with The Division's end-game? I haven't really been able to find much info on it. Is it still kind of a mystery?
They said they'll reveal details soon. You'll be able to acquire best-in-slot gear from both PVE endgame as well as the Dark Zone.
I have both, but there's no way I can play on PS4 now after playing at 1440p on high. So I am going PC. Happy to play together with you. Ubisoft ID is miamijaaz
AusRoachman
Member
That's actually a really cool idea , the watchdogs aspect would work really well here , holing up In a house etc to try and escape .
Also would be cool if one of the unlocks was a drone to go and search buildings etc , I know they have a drone which kind of flash bangs enemies but this would purely be for recon.
Noisepurge
Member
Good post, but the manhunt and rogue system exists solely to DISCOURAGE you from killing other players. It's just an additional system in there.
And like you mentioned but then forgot, the MAIN reason for you wanting to murder another player is to steal their exotic/legendary loot that they are trying to extract. Just killing players for the fun of it should have no rewards tied into it.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Could the friendly fire leading to rogue status be solved like this :
1) A gesture becoming the general 'sorry' gesture to let the other guy know it was an accident
2) the other player can quickly remove your rogue status by clicking on your player profile and selecting the option (I assume you can see that stuff quickly?)
1) A gesture becoming the general 'sorry' gesture to let the other guy know it was an accident
2) the other player can quickly remove your rogue status by clicking on your player profile and selecting the option (I assume you can see that stuff quickly?)
Not really anything obvious like that, no.
But a lot of small details in pictures and text and such.
dancrane212
Member
Wasn't feeling the cover system until I played around with the settings. Not being able to accidentally move out of cover and locking movement around cover to a button press made the combat much more enjoyable to me - nice to have that option in there.
arts&crafts
Member
So no real reason to stray off the beaten path. I did venture underground for a while but found nothing.
Those systems don't exist to discourage pvp, the entire point is to ENCOURAGE pvp.
Right now they don't, they encourage ganking 1 person and then running away.
Also, you don't get any of that loot if you can't survive to extract, which as a manhunt target...well you really won't.
The benefits of being a rogue: You can kill anyone you want. If you survive you get a bonus.
The penalties of being a rogue: Everyone can see where you're at, everyone wants to kill you, you drop SHITLOADS more stuff when you die, IE penalty for failure is extreme.
The benefits of NOT being a rogue: You can still kill anyone you want if you really want to, you don't lose 25-40% of everything you own if you die. You lose 1 key if you die instead of 5-6.
The penalties of not being a rogue: You have to deal with people taking potshots at you or running around blasting music at you in an effort to make you be the idiot dumb enough to go rogue first, so that they can take your stuff.
Seriously, everyone that hasn't actually gone rogue hasn't seen how punishing it is, and it's not supposed to be a pve zone with optional ganking, it's supposed to be a zone where you can become rogue for high risk high reward, right now it's just high risk. If you just want to steal people's loot it is MUCH MUCH MUCH safer to just wait at en extraction (in non-rogue state) and gank someone right before it lands, then extract their loot before anyone can come hunt you down.
The issue with this system is it still is a pvp system encouraging you to not pvp. As long as your timer is reset to 5 minutes for killing the people shooting at you (and paused any time they take a shot at you for 5 seconds), there's not a realistic way to end a manhunt.
Guys a little help, i'm not an expert on how the game's multiplayer works right now, still, i found a pretty good deal for a Uplay code of the game...problem is, if my other friends are purchasing the game on Steam instead of Uplay, how can we invite each other into the same team? I kinda have no idea on how Uplay works in this kind of situations
Sleeping Lesson
Member
I didn't know that was an option! I'll definitely check it out. Other than that though, I really loved the cover system. It's a fantastic evolution of the SC: Conviction cover system. One thing I'd like is to be able to change trajectory to another piece of cover in the middle of a cover transition, sort of like how the XBLA game Hybrid let you.
Raven Prime
Member
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