• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The drama continues: Ubisoft removed the Samurai description of Yasuke on Steam page, but only for Japan store

Fbh

Member
Yup, because a lot of people are sheltered and they don't think black people/minorities should be in non stereotypical roles especially as main characters.

Yasuke was a real person but they want to make it seem like Ubisoft made his character up to add to the game to fit a "agenda" when they clearly just wanted to focus on telling a different story from the norm.

The fact that, unlike EVERY other main character in the franchise, they actually had to go with a real person instead of a fictional character for Yasuke to make sense just goes to show how forced and out of place he feels.

In nearly 20 years of making these games they've managed to feature multiple fictional characters from underrepresented nationalities and enthnicites in a way that feels natural and makes sense within the historical context of the game...until now.

But sure, there is no "agenda" or ulterior motive behind this. It's totally the same as the fictional Native American character in the AC set in the USA or the fictional Egyptian character in the AC set in Egypt.
 
Last edited:
Ragnarok is a great example. Angrboda didn't have to be white and didn't have to black.

If the character had white skin or brown skin or any other colour, would it have made the game better? No. Then why does it matter?

Hopefully I'm explaining myself clearly.

Woop, you have got to be kidding me friend - but to answer your question : Yes, Angrboda should have been fair skinned (aka "white") since - wait for it - she sure as hell isn't described as African/black in Norse mythology, why are you insisting on the opposite? What did you got out of it ? Why should white Americans rewrite other people's and culture's just for social points ?
Maybe you're American and that's why you don't get it but again, cultural and/or historical revisionism only leads to brainrot and even more cultural division.
The world shouldn't revolve around American politics and yet, here we are...

The "why shouldn't she be black/Asian/Spanish/Martian ?" is EXACTLY why people oppose such practices and it's the exact same as the "it's just a game bro"/"it's just a movie bro"/"why do you even care bro?" and it basically translates to "I'm a Westerner with a culture of barely 500 years old and I don't give a shit about your country's 2500+ year old culture, also, please shut the fuck up you racist", you can't make shit up 'cause this is literally what's been happening.

Let me put it this way: let's say that I want to do a movie or game about the Amistad but hey, I'll swap all the African people in it with...Japanese actors, what would you think about it ?
If the idea sounds ridiculous it's because it actually is.


But I get it, just like StreetsofBeige StreetsofBeige said, this..."diversity" is a one-way thing 'cause sure as shit I'm not seeing any Latinos/Asians/Middle Easterners getting represented as much as African Americans in movies/games for the past 10 years, but I suppose that someone would insinuate that that's also racist, am I right ?

Here we are, 20-30 something year old white corporate dudes and gals dictating to the whole world what their culture/history should be 'cause otherwise = racists.
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
But I get it, just like StreetsofBeige StreetsofBeige said, this..."diversity" is a one-way thing 'cause sure as shit I'm not seeing any Latinos/Asians/Middle Easterners getting represented as much as African Americans in movies/games for the past 10 years, but I suppose that someone would insinuate that that's also racist, am I right ?

Here we are, 20-30 something year olds white corporate dudes and gals dictating to the whole world what should their culture/history be 'cause otherwise = racists.
Not even just games and movies. Even TV commercials.

Here in Canada, there's hardly any Black people, while there's tons of Asians and East Indian people here. The Arab population has been growing fast the past 10+ years and has already caught up to about half the Black population.

Yet, in TV ads, I'm not joking when I say this. It doesn't matter what kind of product or company it is being promoted in a commercial. It's like 30%+ Black people when Canada's overall Black community is about 4% of the population.

The East Indian/Asian pop is about 15%+. And the Native Indian population is about 5%. So lets say roughly about 20% in this entire grouping. But you see hardly any in TV ads. I can understand the zero representation of Latino folks. Less than 2% of the population.
 
Last edited:

Woopah

Member
Woop, you have got to be kidding me friend - but to answer your question : Yes, Angrboda should have been fair skinned (aka "white") since - wait for it - she sure as hell isn't described as African/black in Norse mythology, why are you insisting on the opposite? What did you got out of it ? Why should white Americans rewrite other people's and culture's just for social points ?
Maybe you're American and that's why you don't get it but again, cultural and/or historical revisionism only leads to brainrot and even more cultural division.
The world shouldn't revolve around American politics and yet, here we are...

The "why shouldn't she be black/Asian/Spanish/Martian ?" is EXACTLY why people oppose such practices and it's the exact same as the "it's just a game bro"/"it's just a movie bro"/"why do you even care bro?" and it basically translates to "I'm a Westerner with a culture of barely 500 years old and I don't give a shit about your country's 2500+ year old culture, also, please shut the fuck up you racist", you can't make shit up 'cause this is literally what's been happening.

Let me put it this way: let's say that I want to do a movie or game about the Amistad but hey, I'll swap all the African people in it with...Japanese actors, what would you think about it ?
If the idea sounds ridiculous it's because it actually is.


But I get it, just like StreetsofBeige StreetsofBeige said, this..."diversity" is a one-way thing 'cause sure as shit I'm not seeing any Latinos/Asians/Middle Easterners getting represented as much as African Americans in movies/games for the past 10 years, but I suppose that someone would insinuate that that's also racist, am I right ?

Here we are, 20-30 something year olds white corporate dudes and gals dictating to the whole world what should their culture/history be 'cause otherwise = racists.
Well first of all I'm not American.

And secondly the Amistad example isn't what is happening here. Yasuke isn't a Japanese person played by an African actor. He was African.

The Angraboda example would be like making a video game or movie set in Egypt and having Isis played by a white actress. Or she could be played by a black or brown skinned actress.

If people want to make more video games with Latinos/Asians/Middle Easterners in them, then they can do so.
 

Shaki12345

Member
If people have suggestions on how to make the character better, that's great! Want to improve the music? Great. Is there some pandering dialogue that could be written better? Completely fine.

But I don't agree that he's not allowed to be in the game at all. Or this notion that a video game character can only be black if they have to be black.

Ragnarok is a great example. Angrboda didn't have to be white and didn't have to black.

If the character had white skin or brown skin or any other colour, would it have made the game better? No. Then why does it matter?

Hopefully I'm explaining myself clearly.
Dude. People want to play as (diverse) JAPANESE people set in a JAPANESE world. Not 1 black guy and 1 Japanese girl. Maybe you should go and work at Ubisoft. Match made in heaven apparently.
 
Last edited:

Woopah

Member
Dude. People want to play as (diverse) JAPANESE people set in a JAPANESE world. Not 1 black guy and 1 Japanese girl. Maybe you should go and work at Ubisoft. Match made in heaven apparently.
But you get to swtch between the characters freely right, and choose which one you want to use? (I imagine they'll be a tutorial or story specific part for each you have to play.

So you can play as a JAPANESE person in a JAPANESE world.
 
Last edited:

Shaki12345

Member
But you get to choose between the characters right? So you can play as a JAPANESE person in a JAPANESE world.
That's not true. You have to play as them BOTH. It's not a choice. It'll be like Assassin's Creed Syndicate. So, your entire argument makes no sense.

We are being forced to play as a mountain of a black man, in a historical Japanese setting. And NOBODY asked for it nor wanted it. We just wanted a cool Japanese character (only) in a Japanese world.
 
Last edited:

laynelane

Member
Woop, you have got to be kidding me friend - but to answer your question : Yes, Angrboda should have been fair skinned (aka "white") since - wait for it - she sure as hell isn't described as African/black in Norse mythology, why are you insisting on the opposite? What did you got out of it ? Why should white Americans rewrite other people's and culture's just for social points ?
Maybe you're American and that's why you don't get it but again, cultural and/or historical revisionism only leads to brainrot and even more cultural division.
The world shouldn't revolve around American politics and yet, here we are...

The "why shouldn't she be black/Asian/Spanish/Martian ?" is EXACTLY why people oppose such practices and it's the exact same as the "it's just a game bro"/"it's just a movie bro"/"why do you even care bro?" and it basically translates to "I'm a Westerner with a culture of barely 500 years old and I don't give a shit about your country's 2500+ year old culture, also, please shut the fuck up you racist", you can't make shit up 'cause this is literally what's been happening.

Let me put it this way: let's say that I want to do a movie or game about the Amistad but hey, I'll swap all the African people in it with...Japanese actors, what would you think about it ?
If the idea sounds ridiculous it's because it actually is.


But I get it, just like StreetsofBeige StreetsofBeige said, this..."diversity" is a one-way thing 'cause sure as shit I'm not seeing any Latinos/Asians/Middle Easterners getting represented as much as African Americans in movies/games for the past 10 years, but I suppose that someone would insinuate that that's also racist, am I right ?

Here we are, 20-30 something year olds white corporate dudes and gals dictating to the whole world what should their culture/history be 'cause otherwise = racists.

Well said. It's also frustrating because it would be amazing to get stories and games which revolve around other cultures and their histories. But too many developers believe that putting in the barest minimum of effort - eg. race swapping - is the 'right' path forward. We end up getting these myopic, narrow-minded viewpoints injected directly into our entertainment and if we don't applaud like trained seals - we're the problem.

You, me, and many other people here know the world is a much vaster place than just a couple countries and the flawed viewpoints of activists - I really do hope times are changing because the backlash against Ubi and others like them is absolutely deserved. It's happening because most people, who are normally tolerant, are just fed up at this point. It's also impacted the medium in such a negative way too - bad games, poor dialogue surrounding games, etc. I'd like to see all that change for the better and the best way, maybe the only way, is to keep raising our voices and voting with out wallets. It should never have had to get this far but, again, that inherent tolerance that most people have has just been stretched thin and taken for granted for far too long.
 
Last edited:

Woopah

Member
That's not true. You have to play as them BOTH. It's not a choice. It'll be like Assassin's Creed Syndicate. So, your entire argument makes no sense.

We are being forced to play as a mountain of a black man, in a historical Japanese setting. And NOBODY asked for it nor wanted it. We just wanted a cool Japanese character (only) in a Japanese world.
Yes I updated my post to reflect that. You can play most of the game as whoever you want, but they'll be certain story bits you have to be Yasuke.

Hopefully those bits are limited and for the vast majority people get to choose.
 
That's not true. You have to play as them BOTH. It's not a choice. It'll be like Assassin's Creed Syndicate. So, your entire argument makes no sense.
Is your source that you made it the fuck up? Because ubisoft has already said months ago during summer games fest that you can play through the game almost completely with a single person, and you can switch whenever you want; it's not like syndicate at all in that aspect.
 

Shaki12345

Member
Is your source that you made it the fuck up? Because ubisoft has already said months ago during summer games fest that you can play through the game almost completely with a single person, and you can switch whenever you want; it's not like syndicate at all in that aspect.
Dude. You are literally saying what I'm saying. "Almost". So, not exclusively. And yes, they have said that you are forced to play as a character during certain moments. Proof
 
Well first of all I'm not American.

And secondly the Amistad example isn't what is happening here. Yasuke isn't a Japanese person played by an African actor. He was African.

The Angraboda example would be like making a video game or movie set in Egypt and having Isis played by a white actress. Or she could be played by a black or brown skinned actress.

If people want to make more video games with Latinos/Asians/Middle Easterners in them, then they can do so.

You not being American makes it even worse.

You're not answering any questions, you're only making assumptions, talking in hypotheticals and continue playing coy, it's like talking to a wall.

Your (pseudo) calm demeanor is the only thing I got from our whole convo, apparently, your idea of diversity = exclusively black for some weird reason.

Trying to put words in someone's mouth is always a no-no for me, the Egyptian mythology example you're trying to make is completely off, of course it'd be better to use a darker skin actress portraying an actual Egyptian character, did anyone say it'd be better to use a white or Asian one ? The complete opposite obviously to what you're claiming about Angrboda in GOW, so, which one is it man ? You can't have it both ways 😉

Listen, we can agree to disagree, having said that, I'm not going to continue going in circles, it's tiresome since we're obviously not gonna change each other's mind, you can continue peddling your concern trolling, whataboutisms and continuing being dishonest - both with yourself and to the person you're discussing with.
 

Shaki12345

Member
No I'm not, you said it's like syndicate, which had a lot of forced swapping, I'm saying it's not like syndicate at all since you can play most of the game with whoever you want.
I gave you a link where the Director of the damn game is saying what I'm saying and that means that, just like in Syndicate, you'll be forced to play as a character during some segments.

People don't want to play as a huge black man in a setting where there ain't huge black men.
 
just like in Syndicate, you'll be forced to play as a character during some segments.
Have you even played syndicate? It's not "some segments", every single story mission in syndicate is scripted to a fixed character, so your own source is contradicting you; it's not like syndicate at all.
 

Woopah

Member
You not being American makes it even worse.

You're not answering any questions, you're only making assumptions, talking in hypotheticals and continue playing coy, it's like talking to a wall.

Your (pseudo) calm demeanor is the only thing I got from our whole convo, apparently, your idea of diversity = exclusively black for some weird reason.

Trying to put words in someone's mouth is always a no-no for me, the Egyptian mythology example you're trying to make is completely off, of course it'd be better to use a darker skin actress portraying an actual Egyptian character, did anyone say it'd be better to use a white or Asian one ? The complete opposite obviously to what you're claiming about Angrboda in GOW, so, which one is it man ? You can't have it both ways 😉

Listen, we can agree to disagree, having said that, I'm not going to continue going in circles, it's tiresome since we're obviously not gonna change each other's mind, you can continue peddling your concern trolling, whataboutisms and continuing being dishonest - both with yourself and to the person you're discussing with.
What do you mean "pseudo calm"? I'm trying to answer your questions and have a debate with you.

First you put words in my mouth by saying "your idea of diversity = exclusively black for some reason". I never said anything even remotely like that.

And then the very next sentence you say "Trying to put words in someone's mouth is always a no-no for me". I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I apologise if anything came across that way.

Yes, I completely agree with you that having Japanese actors play the black characters in the Amistad would be weird (unless it was like, a play done in Japan or something like that).

But how does that relate to Assassin's Creed or Agraboda?

My point about the Egyptian mythology is that I don't see the same rules applying to fictional, mythological beings as to actual historical humans. I don't care about Agraboda being played by a non-light skinned actress in the same way I wouldn't care Isis being played by a non-dark skinned actress. But if we were talking about actual humans who existed then it would be different.

Hopefully this helps explain my argument more, but yes happy to agree to disagree.
 

Crayon

Member
Sad that the black samurai would have been cool. But in our timeline, it's so transparently insincere.

In case anyone doesn't know, asians are often considered "white-adjacent" in woke circles. It's sort of a band-aid on the paradox of them being racial minorities yet generally having scholastic and professional success.
 
Sad that the black samurai would have been cool. But in our timeline, it's so transparently insincere.

In case anyone doesn't know, asians are often considered "white-adjacent" in woke circles. It's sort of a band-aid on the paradox of them being racial minorities yet generally having scholastic and professional success.
It's also why Harvard was caught purposely enforcing quotas on how many Asians were allowed to be students, this went all the way to the Supreme Court and in the end Harvard's racist admission policies were struck down after a years long legal battle

Other colleges were doing the same and everyone had to scramble to remove their admissions quotas and mysteriously enough Asian enrollment suddenly spiked the next year
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Sad that the black samurai would have been cool. But in our timeline, it's so transparently insincere.

In case anyone doesn't know, asians are often considered "white-adjacent" in woke circles. It's sort of a band-aid on the paradox of them being racial minorities yet generally having scholastic and professional success.
It's because Asians (were talking Japanese, Koreans etc.. and not Indians who are from Asia) skew well in demographic/census surveys. High education, money, and jobs, and low on crime. And a lot of Asians have light skin, so low brow people just assume anyone with light skin are white or white-enough like they are the same as Europeans. Political anglers tend to fight to the death that white people are oppressors and put their foot on minority heads. But that isnt true with Asians because they technically score the highest. At least in US and Canada census surveys. I wouldnt be surprised if it's similar in European surveys too.

As for East Indians, they often score high too. And surveys that have vague bucket names, so East Indians also would fall into Asian group too. But because it's obvious Indians have dark skin, they cant be forced into any pesudo-white person grouping. But let's say in real life Indian people had light skin, but still came from the same country with their same culture and language. I'd bet any money they'd often try to be called white-adjacent too.

One thing you'll notice is when any person or news site talking which general grouping of people are doing the best, they focus on white vs black. They never bring up Asians because they do the best. And they almost never bring up Latinos because they are somewhere in between Whites and Blacks in demographic statistics when it comes to jobs, wages, education etc.. So they dont want to bring up Latinos much either because it shows all people (even when grouped into buckets) can holistically be different. And if they did, it might lead to a narrative do Latinos keep down Black people too. And if that happened, then Asians should be uber oppressors over everyone then. But if you extend it too far, the narrative gets silly. So they they focus on a simple narrative excluding them from the fight.
 
Last edited:

ahtlas7

Member
Season 7 Fx GIF
Ubisoft planning their next decision.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Truly legendary. As in, doesn't exist, even in legends. I don't know why they can't just take the L and market this as a "what-if" alternate historical fiction instead of doubling down on Thomas Lockley's fantasy. I have no issues playing as a black samurai. Heck, that sounds cool, even if the Japanese disagree. But peddling fantasy as history is a bit irritating.

All Assassins Creed games are what-if stories.

napoleon-assassins-creed.jpg
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Whoever’s black on this site, I feel bad for you reading the comments. 😭

You don't need to feel bad for me. I don't need your pity. I'm indifferent to the selection of Yasuke, but I also can see the point of view of people that are against it. Attributing it all to racism is a massive cop out. I also think Angrboda being black was fucking stupid.

AC-Origins-Hair-Shot-03_large.jpg


If the issue is Assassins Creed players mad that a MC is black then why did this one sell over 10 million copies. Obviously there is more context to it.
 
Last edited:
You don't need to feel bad for me. I don't need your pity. I'm indifferent to the selection of Yasuke, but I also can see the point of view of people that are against it. Attributing it all to racism is a massive cop out. I also think Angrboda being black was fucking stupid.

AC-Origins-Hair-Shot-03_large.jpg


If the issue is Assassins Creed players mad that a MC is black then why did this one sell over 10 million copies. Obviously there is more context to it.

You continue being one of the most level headed users in here Wolf and personally, I thank you for that.

Now, we're obviously on the internet and some people have to vent their frustrations, I get it, thing is though, just like you said, there's always more context to it...

Unfortunately, the "racist", "Nazi", "bigot" "-phobe" epithets have lost their meaning in today's world due to them being thrown freely around without a care.

Cheers
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Member
Damn, I might need to shell out for the collector's edition of this thing. With so much controversy, and the looming threat of it being THE game that killed Ubisoft at birth, I fear it may become a valuable artifact in time, in a Limbo of the Lost kind of way.
you should hunt for a copy of concord aswell and change your name in trashure hunter :lollipop_grinning_sweat: :messenger_blowing_kiss:
 
Last edited:

Lokaum D+

Member
the day that ubisoft gets shutdown ll be a day to celebrate

they have Beyond Good and Evil on their hands, they can go crazy on DEI with that game thematic and they are sleeping on it, but NO, lets make a AC Japan that everyone wanted for years and lets put the first "non-native" main character in this AC and call it "historically accurated "

 
Last edited:

MMaRsu

Member
the day that ubisoft gets shutdown ll be a day to celebrate

they have Beyond Good and Evil and their hand, they can go crazy on DEI with that game theme and they are sleeping on it



Nobody wanted that stupid shit in the first place. Dumbass art direction for it man.

Thankfully that shit is probably fully cancelled as well.
 

Laptop1991

Member
As if removing the Samurai description is going to make any difference on the Japanese Steam store, Ubisoft are trying everything now which makes them look desperate as hell at this point, some people say it will still sell well, which at this point i really doubt due to Ubi'soft's action's, pre order's must be low!.
 

Kurotri

Member
You don't need to feel bad for me. I don't need your pity. I'm indifferent to the selection of Yasuke, but I also can see the point of view of people that are against it. Attributing it all to racism is a massive cop out. I also think Angrboda being black was fucking stupid.

AC-Origins-Hair-Shot-03_large.jpg


If the issue is Assassins Creed players mad that a MC is black then why did this one sell over 10 million copies. Obviously there is more context to it.
Not just that, Bayek is one of the most beloved protags in the overall community next to Ezio and Edward.
 

Principal

Member
Whoever’s black on this site, I feel bad for you reading the comments. 😭
It's always fascinating whenever these conversations come up, it's like these lizards crawl out of their dungeons to spew hate on a game they wont even buy, but they just have to make sure to spew their poison...
 
Making him this giant hulking guy smashing the tiny locals was such an incredibly bad decision. But of course they had to do that so they could serve their other DEI god by having the woman be the badass ninja. Can you imagine the back slapping that was going on when they figured out they could have a woman and a black guy in their Japan game?
 

GymWolf

Member
What sticks out to me the most isnt even the rearrangement of any of the art. Or Chewbacca entirely missing.

But the whole pic is throwback to the traditional movie poster art from the 70s or maybe 80s. BUT in both pics Kylo sticks out like a YT streamer dressed in a Halloween costume.
It was a laughable villain so his poster depiction is spot on.
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Member
You don't need to feel bad for me. I don't need your pity. I'm indifferent to the selection of Yasuke, but I also can see the point of view of people that are against it. Attributing it all to racism is a massive cop out. I also think Angrboda being black was fucking stupid.

AC-Origins-Hair-Shot-03_large.jpg


If the issue is Assassins Creed players mad that a MC is black then why did this one sell over 10 million copies. Obviously there is more context to it.
Sales numbers dont tell you a story, after all valhalla sold 12 mil of copies and nobody gives 2 fucks about eivor, but yeah bayek is generally beloved in the community, dude was stoic and his VA was great.
 
It's always fascinating whenever these conversations come up, it's like these lizards crawl out of their dungeons to spew hate on a game they wont even buy, but they just have to make sure to spew their poison...

If by "lizards" you mean the always obvious, "let me be offended on behalf of other people and cultures®", holier than thou, politically correct and virtue signaling hypocritical white knights you'd be spot-on.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
People waited so long for an Assassin's Creed set in feudal Japan, and this is how it turned out. Talk about a wet fart.
Its just insane to me, its like the company can't get out of its own way. The same with Skull and Bones. All we wanted was more Black Flag, just removed the Assasins part, but all you had to do was make more of that game! instead you went and made this stupid MMO that no one asked for. All we wanted was Assasins Creed with a Ninja/Japan theme. And instead you went and made this tank anti-assasin character that again, no one asked for, its a net negative to your game, but for some reason you just wont give your fans what they ask for. What the fuck is wrong with your creative leads UBI? Are they so far up their own ass and agendas they can't just make the thing everyone wants and has asked for?
 

viveks86

Member
All Assassins Creed games are what-if stories.

napoleon-assassins-creed.jpg
Indeed! Which is why I'm puzzled by how this controversy was handled. Unlike the French, who seem to take offense only when you add salt to their recipes, the Japanese are way more sensitive. I was watching a video on Japanese gift wrapping recently, and how every fold should be meaningful and how any cuts are frowned upon, while wrapping as well as unwrapping. To take a part of their culture and history that is known to be revered and sensitive, turn it into a "what-if" and then not handle the response well and calling fans racist for doing so, just comes across as pigheaded and callous. Heck even their plush toy for the game was Naoe perched on top of a one-legged Torii gate, the only one in existence was half destroyed during world war II.

4zq78Ad.jpeg


Just a series of dumbass moves in the name of creativity. A lot could have been corrected with better messaging. But instead, here we are. The game is going to flop even though it may actually be fun and Ubisoft stocks will crash even further. The Beyond Good and Evil dream will forever be dead :messenger_crying:
 
Last edited:

StereoVsn

Gold Member
Not just that, Bayek is one of the most beloved protags in the overall community next to Ezio and Edward.
What’s also annoying is that they could have had a whole new AC set in subsaharan Africa as there are ton of interesting settings and time periods with obviously diverse cast.

And yet instead of having multiple AC games with positive reception celebrating different peoples and diversity of cultures we get a bucket full of controversy.

If anything this pisses me off even more about Ubisoft’s tone deaf approach.
 
Top Bottom