Their point is that you can't watch JUST the Captain America movies and understand everything that's going on in 3 because that movie prioritizes being an Avengers movie with elements of Captain America 1 & 2 as the vehicle moving it forward.
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The Fans Have Inherited the Film Industry and It's a Problem for the Rest of Us
- Thread starter Nerdkiller
- Start date
Their point is that you can't watch JUST the Captain America movies and understand everything that's going on in 3 because that movie prioritizes being an Avengers movie with elements of Captain America 1 & 2 as the vehicle moving it forward.
SillyEskimo
Member
The box office clearly shows these comic book movies in the hands of fans are losing money at an unsustainable rate. Just bomb after bomb. The super hero fad is on the way out thanks to all the super hero fatigue setting in around the globe. They also tend to look so much like TV shows that audiences cannot tell the difference and so are choosing to stay home and watch television instead.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/captain_america_civil_war
90% Fresh
89% liked it
Average Rating: 4.3/5
User Ratings: 173,306
$1.132 billion USD
But I'm the one being hyperbolic here
I think it's b/c it's because of the time investment. If you only have passing interest on watching and you find out that there's 8 movies to watch to catch up with the current saga, it makes it that much harder to even start.
Not everything needs to be for everyone.
And that being said... yes the connections between movies are way overblown. My gf's first Marvel movie was Avengers and besides having a vague idea of who Hulk was didn't know anything. She loved the movie came out wanting to watch the rest of the CU. I'm sure that's what studios are really aiming for.
And that being said... yes the connections between movies are way overblown. My gf's first Marvel movie was Avengers and besides having a vague idea of who Hulk was didn't know anything. She loved the movie came out wanting to watch the rest of the CU. I'm sure that's what studios are really aiming for.
How much of this is nitpicking though? If you watched The Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron, you aren't going to miss much in Civil War. If you didn't watch either of those, they still explain enough for you to get the gist of things.
Who cares if you didn't really know who Ant-man is going into Civil War? He was just a few jokes and special effects. It's like getting pissed off at 21 Jump Street for having Johnny Depp and that other original cast member show up randomly at the end. If you didn't know that there was a 21 Jump Street show, what is really changed?
MugiwaraCole
Member
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/captain_america_civil_war
90% Fresh
89% liked it
Average Rating: 4.3/5
User Ratings: 173,306
$1.132 billion USD
But I'm the one being hyperbolic here
Lol, I get it now.
Glass Rebel
Member
Personally I really couldn't enjoy John Wick 1 because I didn't know what happened before he retired but I'm willing to give it another chance when they make a prequel.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Or even take 5 minutes to read the Wikipedia entry if all you really care about are the plot points that you feel are absolutely necessary (they're not) to know.
I read through the OP and I still don't understand the problem. You can still enjoy these movies without having to watch every single film in the franchise. Even if you don't want to, there are hundreds, if not thousands of other movies that come out every single year. There's something out there for everyone. And that's on top of all the great television shows out there now. TV has never been better.
I mean, I get the point you're making here. But on the flipside, by the time Civil War came out everybody even remotely interested in the franchise knew these movies were interconnected with other Marvel movies. Hell, the trailers and the posters for Civil War also prominently feature characters who didn't appear in the previous Captain America movies either (aka: made it clear that there's a few other storylines leading into this movie). So if you still went into Cap 3 cold to some of the other related MCU stuff then I still feel that's on you as an audience member.
Plus, honestly, a lot of the plot stuff from the other MCU movies as they pertain to Civil War are honestly minor and not that relevant to the movie. The only thing that's really big for Civil War is Sokovia and the general aftermath of the Avengers doing their Avenger things, and Civil War even does a drive by summary of Sokovia via explaining the need for the accords.
Bolivar687
Banned
I'm not exactly sure what the author's trying to say, and it doesnt sound like she really knows, either.
All I know is that when I went to see Batman v Superman, I was struck very early on with the surreal feeling that this movie was specifically made for me, by someone who saw the source material exactly as I did. Every successive scene then confirmed it beyond a shadow of a doubt. I couldn't believe someone spent hundreds of millions of dollars so that I and people like myself, this very specific slice of comic book readers, could be made happy, with something that was for us and clearly no one else.
I can't even get mad at the people who hate on BvS. They're not in the clubhouse. They'll probably never be in the clubhouse. It feels prestigious.
All I know is that when I went to see Batman v Superman, I was struck very early on with the surreal feeling that this movie was specifically made for me, by someone who saw the source material exactly as I did. Every successive scene then confirmed it beyond a shadow of a doubt. I couldn't believe someone spent hundreds of millions of dollars so that I and people like myself, this very specific slice of comic book readers, could be made happy, with something that was for us and clearly no one else.
I can't even get mad at the people who hate on BvS. They're not in the clubhouse. They'll probably never be in the clubhouse. It feels prestigious.
Agreed; as much as I understand the cons of the rise of cinematic universes, there is still a diverse set of standalone movies that release each year.
Huh?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Average rating is 7.6. That means a good chunk actually rated lower than 7.6. 90% of people said, "yes, watch the movie" but that doesn't make the movie fantastic. Sure, it made lots of money but that's not what you or I meant unless you believe box office = quality.
There are fantastic films and then there are fantastic films. It's why I said you're being hyperbolic.
Click my name, select the last option. You don't need to follow me to threads asking "how do I ignore this guy?"
Boom. Tears over nothing and I've never been happier.
Glass Rebel
Member
The people in the clubhouse have thrown BvS off the premises and invited their new member Wonder Woman.
Gnome Scat
Member
The only big offender of this I've seen is Rouge One.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Put them hands up. It's go time.
| Praxis |
Banned
The sooner this superhero fad is over the quicker I get to hate the next fad.
Seriously though, I couldn't be less interested in superheroes and it feels like there are a couple of (mainstream) films a year I want to see at my mainstream only cinema.
Seriously though, I couldn't be less interested in superheroes and it feels like there are a couple of (mainstream) films a year I want to see at my mainstream only cinema.
Not only that, but it acts like movies are the singular nexus of entertainment. There's more good television on Netflix than there was out there at all a few decades ago.
Culture has gotten more fragmented, and it comes with positives and negatives, but it ain't the superhero movies' fault. Plus, if it were really just diehard fans who excluded everyone else, then these movies wouldn't be pulling their massive box office returns.
What if... it's not a fad? What if superhero films become more than just a genre? I'd say stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy and Logan suggest we're trending towards that direction, more than "westerns are old hat because no one can identify with them" anymore.
Yeah rewatching Civil War I was somewhat suprised by how well it hangs together if you've never seen another film, even though it's clearly not designed that way. There's enough background in there to make sense of it, even though especially with the character relationships a lot of stuff will seem very breezy. Unless you are 100% not aware of the existence of the characters overall and go see Civil War, it should make sense and have an identifiable conflict, etc.
Exactly. If you're concerned about the story
surejan.gif
Long ass fad, that's for sure
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/captain_america_civil_war
90% Fresh
89% liked it
Average Rating: 4.3/5
User Ratings: 173,306
$1.132 billion USD
But I'm the one being hyperbolic here
responding to spatula about the mcu
in 2017
its tough to do on mobile
on desktop, click Spatulas name and see the profile, then add to ignore
The 3rd Captain America is an exception to the norm. The first 2 Captain America's are stand alone films. The 2 GOTG movies act as stand alone films. Ant Man, Dr. Strange, Iron Man, Avengers, The Incredible Hulk, Spider Man, Black Panther and Thor are all stand alone movies.
So far, only Thor 2, Avengers 2, Captain America 3, Iron Man 2 and 3 have had the issue you're talking about.
10 of the 15 (and the upcoming two) work as stand alone movies.
And as other people have said, if you like Captain America, you should watch the movies his character is in that aren't specifically his movies. If you watched the first two Captain America's and just the other movies the character was in, you wouldn't have any issues with understanding the third.
At some point, these previous films also become pop culture. What percentage of the movie going population seriously has no idea who Darth Vader is, or what the Death Star is, after 40 years? Besides little kids who generally don't give a shit about story continuity.
Fox Mulder
Member
As it should. If that's too much for someone, then go watch anything else.
These aren't even deep films to begin with, they just obviously tie in with previous films.
CambriaRising
Member
I went in and saw civil war having watched only iron Man 1,2 and the first avengers and was still able to enjoyed it. Granted I have at least some ideas who the other characters are except for ant man( it was hilarious when I saw his power for the first time). I think my experience is similar to a lot of casual movie goers, you don't need to watch all 20 movies to enjoy the newest marvel flick
itwasTuesday
He wasn't alone.
They clearly should have numbered them all
mcu1 = hulk
mcu2 = iron man
mcu3 = thor
mcu4 = cap
Or, wait better idea. Put the year after the title character.
Iron Man 2016
Spidermin 2017
Avengers 2018: Thanos is in it
mcu1 = hulk
mcu2 = iron man
mcu3 = thor
mcu4 = cap
Or, wait better idea. Put the year after the title character.
Iron Man 2016
Spidermin 2017
Avengers 2018: Thanos is in it
Yes, of course I don't care. Serialized entertainment exists in every medium. TV, books, comics, radio, and since the very beginning, movies.
The author raises the argument that she doesn't like serialized movies. Why? Why are movies the one form of media where you aren't allowed to tell a story that crosses over multiple entries?
No one complained in the 80's and 90's when serialized content took over and relegated episodic tv to the scrap heap of history. In fact, it's been the opposite. It's TV's golden age! No one complains about 6 book series that require the reader to have read the earlier books to know what's going on.
So why then should serialized movies be any different? Civil War would have been impossible to make without the earlier movies, and I love that! It's opening up possibilities in movie storytelling.
Idiotic argument. Is an episode of Breaking Bad a commercial for the next episode? No, it's part of a bigger story.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It's not goal post moving. I initially said these branch stories muddy the story overall. He called the movie fantastic. He gave his points. I gave mine. You can re-read the comment string.
I can understand the frustration people feel here, but...
If it wasn't superheroes, it'd be something else. Hollywood chases trends. Hell, any major industry chases trends.
And frankly, I like these superhero movies more than I like westerns, or remakes, or reboots, or disaster movies, or adaptations of old TV shows, or people trying and failing to be Quentin Tarantino, or torture porn, or young adult fiction adaptations...
So until the pendulum shifts, I personally don't mind. It helps that they tend to be pretty entertaining, if maybe not being GREAT WORKS OF ART (TM). I liked Wonder Woman and Guardians 2 a lot, and I will probably like Spider-Man: Another New One and Thor 3 (but probably not Justice League and whatever non-Deadpool Fox X-Movies come up next)
If it wasn't superheroes, it'd be something else. Hollywood chases trends. Hell, any major industry chases trends.
And frankly, I like these superhero movies more than I like westerns, or remakes, or reboots, or disaster movies, or adaptations of old TV shows, or people trying and failing to be Quentin Tarantino, or torture porn, or young adult fiction adaptations...
So until the pendulum shifts, I personally don't mind. It helps that they tend to be pretty entertaining, if maybe not being GREAT WORKS OF ART (TM). I liked Wonder Woman and Guardians 2 a lot, and I will probably like Spider-Man: Another New One and Thor 3 (but probably not Justice League and whatever non-Deadpool Fox X-Movies come up next)
Imo Civil War explains in the first 20 min or so everything important to understand the plot. If you really need to know what the thing on The Vision head is for some reason or who he is, besides beeing a Member of the Avengers, which is the only info you need about the Vision in Civil War, than you can still watch the other movies later.
I'd argue that if the Disney animation brand is ubiquitous, then the Spielberg or Lucas name attached to a film in the 80s was ubiquitous as well.
I don't think it was a the time to be fair for Jaws and first Star wars but the argument was original movies not doing well
Its not idiotic. All films are commercial, of course, but I've never felt more jaded about blockbusters and mass produced film after this superhero wave. Most of these movies are terrible to me, and even ones I used to like, I look back and realize that most of the world-building is just nods to other movies, advertisements for a broader set of films, action figures, TV series, etc.
It feels like nothing has any emotional weight or means anything beyond selling the next film.
If you're the kind of person who thinks that movies in a particular franchise aren't good or interesting enough to fully keep up with, then what difference does it make? This seems like complaining for the sake of complaining. I don't give a fuck about the Despicable Me series, so why would it matter to me if I didn't know about certain characters or know the significance of different references because I skipped the first two (I don't know if that's true or not, I'm using it as an example)? If anything, this would be a problem for the studios, but it's not since they're making money hand over fist.
There has been a superhero movie in theaters regularly since the 1989 Batman movie. Even Batman and Robin, which supposedly killed the genre, was followed a year later by Blade, which lead into X-Men, then Spiderman, and then it's been pretty much non-stop, with the genre hitting high gear in 2008.
This isn't a "fad" like Westerns or Musicals, this is the burgeoning equivalent to cop/crime shows on television or role-playing games in video games. Movies like Deadpool and Loagan are demonstrative of a willingness to deconstruct themselves and adapt. We won't see the end of superhero movies, but rather we'll see superhero movies inform every other genre of movie and vice versa.
MugiwaraCole
Member
They're not gonna just jump into Miles Morales. There's supposed to be an age difference between them anyways. We're not getting Miles for years. Like Phase 6 or sum shit.
You don't have to watch Harry Potter to understand Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. Hell, they take place years before Harry is even thought of, in another country with its own magical rules and culture. Most of us lifelong Harry Potter fans were in new water with that movie.
What the hell are you talking about?
You watch the fucking movies.
Guys. This isn't hard.
Earthanoid
Member
You don't need to see all the prior MCU movies to enjoy them. My wife saw Civil War without seeing Ant-man and having no clue who Ant-man is, but didn't walk away confused about why that dude in the van could shrink and become a giant. It's a super-hero movie, she accepted that crazy shit is going to happen and just enjoyed it as an action movie. The funny thing is, she did see Avengers 2 but didn't remember it. But she still rolled with it, the general concept of "the Avengers have left a trail of destruction" was not particularly subtle even if you don't recognize each event/movie being referenced. These movies aren't particularly subtle, I don't see what the big deal is if someone doesn't know or remember who a particular thing is or catch every joke.
SillyEskimo
Member
These same people must really be stroking out when they want to watch a TV series.
PeskyToaster
Member
someone hold me back
There's like a million differences between the two movies and it's also 40 years between the two. We've had like 8 reboots of Spiderman and 3 batman reboots in that time. It's okay to reestablish some shit after 40 god damn years.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Cinematic universes have ruined the awe of superhero movies to me. It used to be really dramatic seeing something like Batman or Spider-Man brought to life in "the real world", but now you're seeing them brought to life in a long running fantasy soap opera with a lot of silly shit in it.
My mother somehow saw Wonder Woman and enjoyed it. She asked me where the series would go next.... I told her I doubt she'll be having as much fun when WW is talking with Ben Affleck in a batsuit while fighting aliens as they set up the next Green Lantern sequel or whatever.
These movies were better as one-offs. You also had the chance of them turning out it to be works of art (ie The Dark Knight). That's basically impossible when you're manufacturing tiny pieces of a massive corporate product, and they'll fire you or bring in a workman to re-shoot if you deviate from brand too much (i.e. Ant Man, Rogue One, Han Solo)
My mother somehow saw Wonder Woman and enjoyed it. She asked me where the series would go next.... I told her I doubt she'll be having as much fun when WW is talking with Ben Affleck in a batsuit while fighting aliens as they set up the next Green Lantern sequel or whatever.
These movies were better as one-offs. You also had the chance of them turning out it to be works of art (ie The Dark Knight). That's basically impossible when you're manufacturing tiny pieces of a massive corporate product, and they'll fire you or bring in a workman to re-shoot if you deviate from brand too much (i.e. Ant Man, Rogue One, Han Solo)