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[Boogs31]

But what if you're the person saying "Yeaaaaah, I want to get in on that"...how do you? How do I, a casual observer, approach a universe that has about a dozen and a half movies and 6 television series with 3 more on the way? That ads up to hundreds of hours of content if you want to catch up with the entire universe. More power to you for keeping up with it from the very start, but what about John and Mary from down the lane?

You go watch Spider-Man, because it's the first Spider-Man in the MCU. You can go see Black Panther, because it's also an origin movie. You could have gone and seen Ant Man, Dr. Strange, or GOTG in the last several years because they were also origin movies. There are plenty of opportunities for newbies to see movies in the MCU without being confused. If they happened to like those movies, maybe then they could go back and watch the first Iron Man movie or the first Captain America and go from there.

I don't see the issue, if you don't want to invest in the whole universe, there are still stand alone films to enjoy.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Cinematic universes have ruined the awe of superhero movies to me. It used to be really dramatic seeing something like Batman or Spider-Man brought to life in "the real world", but now you're seeing them brought to life in a long running fantasy soap opera with a lot of silly shit in it.

My mother somehow saw Wonder Woman and enjoyed it. She asked me where the series would go next.... I told her I doubt she'll be having as much fun when WW is talking with Ben Affleck in a batsuit and fighting aliens as they set up the next Green Lantern sequel or whatever.

These movies were better as one-offs.

AKA comic books. The circle is now complete.

 

[JCHandsom]

Cinematic universes have ruined the awe of superhero movies to me. It used to be really dramatic seeing something like Batman or Spider-Man brought to life in "the real world", but now you're seeing them brought to life in a long running fantasy soap opera with a lot of silly shit in it.

My mother somehow saw Wonder Woman and enjoyed it. She asked me where the series would go next.... I told her I doubt she'll be having as much fun when WW is talking with Ben Affleck in a batsuit and fighting aliens as they set up the next Green Lantern sequel or whatever.

These movies were better as one-offs.

"You know what sucked in comics? When all the heroes started teaming up and giving themselves goofy names like 'The Avengers' and 'The Justice League'! They used to be such better stories when they were one-offs."

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

These same people must really be stroking out when they want to watch a TV series.

Exactly.

They can binge watch multiple seasons while half asleep over a weekend without an issue, but film series are suddenly too much for them.

 

[Arttemis]

What a ridiculous notion. There are countless movies every year unaffiliated with comics or established franchises.

 

[itwasTuesday]

Wait

The Fans Have Inherited the Film Industry

I knew you guys were responsible for all the movies I don't like.

 

[LotusHD]

AKA comic books. The circle is now complete.

Lol

 

[Nerdkiller]

You watch the fucking movies.

Guys. This isn't hard.

And what of the shows? And I'm including the Arrowverse shows in this, since they're also doing the same thing...and funnily enough, a better job than DC's cinematic equivalents are.

 

[BocoDragon]

"You know what sucked in comics? When all the heroes started teaming up and giving themselves goofy names like 'The Avengers' and 'The Justice League'! They used to be such better stories when they were one-offs."

There probably was a purity to one-off comic stories before they started crossing over characters to one another... but it's not like it was ruining as much since comics then was pulp entertainment for young boys.

I know geeks love all the crossovers. It's just like comic books. That's the point of the OP really: the geek mindset won out in Hollywood.

But I'm not a comic geek, and I don't squee when I see all my toys coming to life and working together. I want to see movie adaptations of superhero concepts, where they take the seed of a superhero, and visualize what it might be like in the real world. I was kinda happy with the way they adapted sperheroes before the MCU. Now I rather dislike all of them because I just don't want everything to fit into some geek soap opera that I don't care about.

 

[Tobor]

And what of the shows? And I'm including the Arrowverse shows in this, since they're also doing the same thing...and funnily enough, a better job than DC's cinematic equivalents are.

You don't have to watch a single marvel tv show to know anything that's happening in the movies.

But even if you did, so what? Can't keep up? That's your problem.

There are tons of tv shows I can't keep up with. Tons of book series I'd love to read but will never get around to. And there are movies I wish I had time for. Boo hoo on me. You cut your losses and move on, and you watch what really matters to you.

 

[Adam_Vania]

imo it is all part of post-post modern consumerism. it is a late capitalist technique wherein you have the consumers fight amongst themselves for who is the better consumer. they promote this via the new marketing to "fans", aggressively dividing the audience for the sake of free press and attention-friendly controversy.

modern media conglomerates continuously market to the uber fan, who is largely a marketing creation. you are not in competition with your neighbor. in truth everyone has the right to consume in the manner to which they find suitable so long as it doesn't impinge on anyone else's right.

this scapegoating/idolizing of modern capitalist archetype "the fan" is merely the last gasp of materialist consumerism desperately attempting to mask its ideological moral and spiritual deficit.

 

[LotusHD]

There probably was a purity to one-off comic stories before they started crossing over characters to one another... but it's not like it was ruining as much since comics then was pulp entertainment for young boys.

I know geeks love it. It's just like comic books. That's the point of the OP really: the geek mindset won out in Hollywood.

But I'm not a comic geek, and I don't squee when I see all my toys coming to life and working together. I want to see movie adaptations of superhero concepts, where they take the seed of a superhero, and visualize what it might be like in the real world. I was kinda happy with the way they adapted sperheroes before the MCU, and know I rather dislike all of them because so just don't want everything to fit into some geek soap opera.

You don't have to be a comic geek to enjoy seeing a connected universe. Superheroes are the big thing now, but a lot of people have always enjoyed their favorite characters interacting with one another. It's just that comic books give them a much bigger avenue to do so, and make bank off of it, as seen with Avengers.

 

[KojiKnight]

Undoubtedly this is true to an extent... But to be fair it's kind of the movie industries fault.

For decades movie producers took content from games, tv shows and books and said "this is good, but we're going to take the thing you love and simplify it, take all the nuances and anything that made it unique and interesting and throw it out to hit key demographics."

Fans got tied of that, now fans are making the movies other fans have wanted to see and you know what? It's working for the most part... And if that means a few people get left out, there's always the same old rom-com playing 2 theaters down.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

I've been saying this for a while now; this MCU/DCU styled approach to "filmmaking" (they're not real films, they're advertisements for whatever comes next; even James Mangold said as much) has become very problematic for me.

My cynicism towards the MCU is at an all-time high.

Oh, Mangold said it, so it must be true.

Jesus Christ, you people are sniffing your own farts on this.

It's not Marvel, but the direction. Most studios now aren't just aiming for sequels, but cinematic universes. It's no longer like Jaws 1 to 2. It has to be Jaws Mother Edition, followed by Jaws and the Puppers. Where they are apart of an expanding universe and you need all of them at times to get everything.

Looking over this summer, but films either in one or attempting to build one.
Fast and the Furious
Guardians of the Galaxy
King Arthur
Pirates
WW
The Mummy
Transformers 5

F&F, Pirates, and Transformers aren't in cinematic universes. They're just sequels to franchises. You guys don't even know what you're complaining about now.

Click my name, select the last option. You don't need to follow me to threads asking "how do I ignore this guy?"

Followed you? You popped up in a thread I was interested in with really weird opinions, and I get a headache every time I read the shits. Even the parts of this post I cut out are just more of your nitpicky bullshit.

But I appreciate the tip. Don't have to deal with that anymore. Be well.

 

[kswiston]

What a ridiculous notion. There are countless movies every year unaffiliated with comics or established franchises.

There were 143 films from 2016 that were released in at least 1500 theatres concurrently at some point in their run. 42 of those were either sequels, remakes, or part of an existing movie franchise (which would include stuff like Deadpool). So 29% of the wide releases last year.

 

[Fisty]

I'm just going to leave this here

And as welcome as Rey’s ascendance as The Chosen One is in The Force Awakens, the installment is practically a beat-for-beat facsimile of A New Hope, the original Star Wars movie.

 

[PeskyToaster]

How does you guys handle keeping up with TV shows? It's like half an MCU movie every week for like 10 to 15 weeks.

I'm just going to leave this here

why are you doing this to me?

 

[Replicant]

Here's an idea, writer: why don't you go and watch tens of other films where there aren't any kind of connecting tissue? Especially if keeping up with information is that difficult for you?

It's easy to do as there are many films of those kinds.

This is like those people who complain about cinematic games like TellTale ones - acting as if its existence means that there aren't other type of games to play.

 

[Staccat0]

There probably was a purity to one-off comic stories before they started crossing over characters to one another... but it's not like it was ruining as much since comics then was pulp entertainment for young boys.

I know geeks love all the crossovers. It's just like comic books. That's the point of the OP really: the geek mindset won out in Hollywood.

But I'm not a comic geek, and I don't squee when I see all my toys coming to life and working together. I want to see movie adaptations of superhero concepts, where they take the seed of a superhero, and visualize what it might be like in the real world. I was kinda happy with the way they adapted sperheroes before the MCU. Now I rather dislike all of them because I just don't want everything to fit into some geek soap opera that I don't care about.

I feel exactly the same. I grew up reading comics, but I don't wanna go out on Friday night and watch an overly long kids movie with no stakes where nothing happens anymore. I would be totally down to watch something like Logan or The Dark Knight though.

There ARE countless other movies but more and more money, marketing and big talents have definitely been getting sucked into this tornado of movies that is starting to look a lot more like the video game industry. I'm not telling anyone they can't like it, but fuck do they get bent out of shape if I say I don't.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Haven't watched a marvel or dc film since the first batman.

As I'm not 14...

That's who these movies are marketed towards. But the nerds got old and their tastes stagnated.

So you're getting movies that have to cater to both. So the universe is there to keep the grown ups interested.

The super hero genre is the cinematic equivalent of a happy meal. You consume it as fast as possible and move on.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Here's an idea, writer: why don't you go and watch tens of other films where there aren't any kind of connecting tissue?

You can still criticize the movies....

 

[AcademicSaucer]

And as welcome as Rey’s ascendance as The Chosen One is in The Force Awakens, the installment is practically a beat-for-beat facsimile of A New Hope, the original Star Wars movie.

Thank you, that movie could have been so much more.

 

[Replicant]

You can still criticize the movies....

Criticize the movies for what? Your own inability to keep up with plots? That's your own fault. Stop blaming others for your own incompetence.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Golden age of television in return though. The balance must be kept.

 

[JCHandsom]

I know geeks love all the crossovers. It's just like comic books. That's the point of the OP really: the geek mindset won out in Hollywood.

Thing is, this isn't just a "geek" thing. The MCU regularly breaks $800 Million-$1 Billion. This isn't an outlier thing, this is pop culture in general saying "Wow! I want me some of THAT!"

An even then most MCU movies aren't Avengers/Civil War level crossover affairs; if you were interested in Doctor Strange because of Benedict Cumberbatch, then you didn't have to watch every other MCU film first. If you want to see Black Panther, you can just see Black Panther because it looks to be its own self-contained story about Black Panther. If there is a throwaway line about the airport fight in Civil War, a 2-minute Wiki search after the film will cover you, and even then that's just icing on the cake for people who do watch every film.

Stories do that all the time. Action Hero: "Man, this reminds me of that one time with the Cat Burglar in Istanbul!", Sidekick: "Still not as bad as the time with the Russian Prime Minister in Brazil!" It's just that now we have the option of actually finding out what the stories behind those missions were, even though they have relatively little bearing on the story being told.

 

[Boogs31]

You can still criticize the movies....

What's the point of criticizing them? If you don't like them, don't go see them. If it bothers you enough that you don't understand what's going on, invest the time to watch the previous movies.

It's like the author is in this weird middle ground in that he/she cares enough to complain but not enough to do anything about it.

 

[IrishNinja]

maybe try watching something other than blockbusters...this feels like something you get in every era these days

I'll give you the MCU unraveling in every direction

how, exactly? guardians 2 looks like unraveling?

The problem is most comic book movies are trash, even the "good ones."

Most of Marvel's movies are just meh at best, and even Wonder Woman was god awful. Legit don't understand who is impressed by these.

this is a PBY post if i ever saw one

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool


This is my favorite post.

okay yeah that dude outdid you pretty hard, hahaha

 

[Staccat0]

How does you guys handle keeping up with TV shows? It's like half an MCU movie every week for like 10 to 15 weeks.

Good TV creates immersion by deepening characters and exploring nooks and crannies of their lives. Steaks are increased by my understanding and attachment. Stuff like Breaking Bad and The Wire are undeniably great TV.

Mediocre TV leaves you wondering what happens next so you have something to talk about at the water cooler and little else. It's plot for plot's sake. Stuff like Walking Dead is mediocre TV.

I have never seen a cinematic universe do the former. If you were trying to say that in the next Avengers movie my wellspring of emotions will be that much deeper thanks to all the other films it'd be comparable to great TV.

Which is I suppose where the article in the OP kinda misses the mark in it's argument. It's not that I need to see those other movies to enjoy them. It's that I don't. Maybe that is the real problem. They write bank checks for me as a viewer personally, but not because of the exact reasons given.

I don't mind pulpy stories. Just commit to the fucking idea instead of making this weird mess where I can't remember the climax or the villain's motivation.

 

[LionPride]

You can still criticize the movies....

I'm breaking my own rules...

Criticize them for what

 

[MugiwaraCole]

And what of the shows? And I'm including the Arrowverse shows in this, since they're also doing the same thing...and funnily enough, a better job than DC's cinematic equivalents are.

You watch the shows that interest you. Bruh, we live in a society that binge watches TV series at an astonishing rate. If they want to be caught up on EVERYTHING, they can watch everything. If they're enjoying themselves, they're not going to fucking care. If they aren't, they'll stop watching and find something that does interest them.

This is such a stupid fucking subject.

 

[gamz]

I mean, are these super hero movies really that complicated to get into and keep track of?

Aside from Batman I don't follow them.

This. I don't watch them all and I never feel lost. It's good guys vs bad guys and the bad guys want to destroy the world and the good guys stop them. End of story.

 

[AndersK]

I was fucking furious during season 7 of Frasier, when i discovered it was part of the Cheers Cinematic Universe. So i went back and watched Cheers and WTF FRASIER DIDN'T HAVE A BROTHER THEN! fucking retcons. That day, i gave up on the CCU.

 

[BocoDragon]

I feel exactly the same. I grew up reading comics, but I don't wanna go out on Friday night and watch an overly long kids movie with no stakes where nothing happens anymore. I would be totally down to watch something like Logan or The Dark Knight though.

There ARE countless other movies but more and more money, marketing and big talents have definitely been getting sucked into this tornado of movies that is starting to look a lot more like the video game industry. I'm not telling anyone they can't like it, but fuck do they get bent out of shape if I say I don't.

Logan and The Dark Knight are great examples of what I want. It's not just their maturity, it's the fact that I can see them as real film adaptations and not just pieces of a giant product. I guess Logan and TDK serve the X-men and Batman brands, but it's not as if they are literally teasing other movies within their runtime.

I know some people get something when Tony Stark shows up in the middle of Spider-Man.... but something is diminished as well. You stop thinking of the hero as a singular miracle in this world, and more like another normie in a magic universe. And you can't even squint your eyes and pretend it's some artist's unique vision .. it's definitely a corporate product and they're selling you the next movie right in the frame.

 

[Thatonemoor]

I mean I get what he is saying but you don't need to Google that much to understand a marvel movie, I really feel reviews make it sound more complicated then it actually is. Also we still get movies that are stand alones all the time. I'm finding it hard to agree with the author when the last movie I saw was baby driver.

 

[Staccat0]

I mean I get what he is saying but you don't need to Google that much to understand a marvel movie, I really feel reviews make it sound more complicated then it actually is. Also we still get movies that are stand alones all the time. I'm finding it hard to agree with the author when the last movie I saw was baby driver.

Thank god he bailed on being tied up in a fucking cinematic universe

 

[kswiston]

I was fucking furious during season 7 of Frasier, when i discovered it was part of the Cheers Cinematic Universe. So i went back and watched Cheers and WTF FRASIER DIDN'T HAVE A BROTHER THEN! fucking retcons. That day, i gave up on the CCU.

Didn't we just have a thread about The Fresh Prince being connected to something like 40 other shows? Better suggest all of those as prerequisite viewing if someone mentions that they are interested in checking the Fresh Prince out I guess. Can't view throwaway connections uniformed!

 

[LotusHD]

Logan and The Dark Knight are great examples of what I want. It's not just their maturity, it's the fact that I can see them as real film adaptations and not just pieces of a giant product. I guess Logan and TDK serve the X-men and Batman brands, but it's not as if they are literally teasing other movies within their runtime.

I know some people get something when Tony Stark shows up in the middle of Spider-Man.... but something is diminished as well. You stop thinking of the hero as a singular miracle in this world, and more like another normie in a magic universe. And you can't even squint your eyes and pretend it's some artist's unique vision .. it's definitely a corporate product and they're selling you the next movie right in the frame.

That's the point, it's a universe with multiple superheroes in it.

Regardless, we can have both.

 

[JCHandsom]

Good TV creates immersion by deepening characters and exploring nooks and crannies of their lives. Steaks are increased by my understanding and attachment. Stuff like Breaking Bad and The Wire are undeniably great TV.

Mediocre TV leaves you wondering what happens next so you have something to talk about at the water cooler and little else. It's plot for plot's sake. Stuff like Walking Dead is mediocre TV.

I have never seen a cinematic universe do the former.

I would say that for certain characters like Iron Man and Captain America the former does apply. There is a sense of progression and development across all the MCU films they show up in; Cap starts a journey in Cap 1 that logically and emotionally follows through to Civil War, and Iron Man I'd say does the same. It is, however, imperfect (Ending of IM3 is pretty undercut by the intro to Age of Ultron) and more than that I'd say it is more often water cooler fodder than it is in-depth immersion.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Logan and The Dark Knight are great examples of what I want. It's not just their maturity, it's the fact that I can see them as real film adaptations and not just pieces of a giant product. I guess Logan and TDK serve the X-men and Batman brands, but it's not as if they are literally teasing other movies within their runtime.

I know some people get something when Tony Stark shows up in the middle of Spider-Man.... but something is diminished as well. You stop thinking of the hero as a singular miracle in this world, and more like another normie in a magic universe. And you can't even squint your eyes and pretend it's some artist's unique vision .. it's definitely a corporate product and they're selling you the next movie right in the frame.

Logan opened with an extended stinger for Deadpool 2, and the popular theory is that Laura is gonna take over as Wolverine in the universe. The movie is also the culmination of over a decade's worth of X-Men &/or Wolverine movies. Did you not enjoy the movie because you didn't know the adamantium bullet was from X-Men Origins?

Ugh.

I would say that for certain characters like Iron Man and Captain America the former does apply. There is a sense of progression and development across all the MCU films they show up in; Cap starts a journey in Cap 1 that logically and emotionally follows through to Civil War, and Iron Man I'd say does the same. It is, however, imperfect (Ending of IM3 is pretty undercut by the intro to Age of Ultron) and more than that I'd say it is more often water cooler fodder than it is in-depth immersion.

Hardly. Even Tony suggests as much in Civil War; he promised he'd stop, but never could because he likes being Iron Man ("I am Iron Man"), and it cost him Pepper.

Connect the dots. They're all right there.

 

[JCHandsom]

Logan and The Dark Knight are great examples of what I want. It's not just their maturity, it's the fact that I can see them as real film adaptations and not just pieces of a giant product. I guess Logan and TDK serve the X-men and Batman brands, but it's not as if they are literally teasing other movies within their runtime..

The Dark Knight is literally the middle part of a trilogy that ends on a cliffhanger, and Logan absolutely sets up Laura to carry the torch and become the new Wolverine (not to mention that Deadpool 2 teaser that is baked into the beginning of the film).

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Criticize the movies for what? Your own inability to keep up with plots? That's your own fault. Stop blaming others for your own incompetence.

I don't know who Vision is unless I watch Age of Ultron but he appears in Civil War. You can say, "just watch the MCU, man" but that's kind of a cop-out for poor writing. Boromir in Lord of the Rings is actually a good example of not needing to see Fellowship to understand his legacy in the movies because its written in a way where you only need to understand how a brother's death has affected their family. Sequels and trilogies usually get less bite because they're usually more contained but its when you start entering the stage of multiple character arcs and new characters from branch areas that it becomes a hassle.

 

[MUnited83]

Not sure those three movies in the banner fit the bill.
Wonder Woman is chronologically before any other DCEU movie and doesn't have many references. You don't need prior knowledge from the other movies to understand it.
Fantastic Beasts is also chronologically before the Harry Potter movies, and has very little cross over. The only thing you need to know is that the franchise has wizards and a hidden magic world, which everyone already knows even if they haven't seen the movies or read the books.
Spider-Man is the closest to this point, yet, still seems that the connection with the MCU will be little more than a Iron Man/Stark cameo.

 

[KarmaCow]

This reminds of those threads on gaming side where someone asks how to play a Nintendo game series to not be lost.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Pop culture has absorbed many of these characters and series to such a degree many non-geek audience members likely can walk into a random franchise film with a decent degree of built-in familiarity without actively having watched a specific series.

 

[kunonabi]

I'm just going to leave this here

Not seeing the problem here since aside from the chosen one bit which will probably be retconned in soon enough.

 

[JCHandsom]

Hardly. Even Tony suggests as much in Civil War; he promised he'd stop, but never could because he likes being Iron Man ("I am Iron Man"), and it cost him Pepper.

Connect the dots. They're all right there.

Huh, I forgot about how they address that in Civil War.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm just going to leave this here

No, I'm pretty sure we all saw that dessicated turd the first time, thanks.

 

[NullPointer]

100% accurate. My wife has no interest in going to movies anymore because she is completely lost with these films. Even I have to take notes sometimes and look shit up after the movie is over.

Got any examples? Which parts of these movies are confusing people?

Griping that some of these movies can't be enjoyed as standalone films makes sense - at least if you're expected to have watched installments of separate series to make sense of anything. But considering the MCU movies I've watched to date I can't think of scenes that made no sense without watching some other character's movie. There are nods to other movies, but I don't remember scenes being left without context. Except maybe the post-credit roll stuff? Event those are there just to hint at and hook into the larger universe, and aren't always meant to be fully understood at the time.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Huh, I forgot about how they address that in Civil War.

I'm sure.

These movies aren't complicated. My 6 year old follows em fine, and hasn't seen em all yet.

 

[BocoDragon]

Logan opened with an extended stinger for Deadpool 2, and the popular theory is that Laura is gonna take over as Wolverine in the universe. The movie is also the culmination of over a decade's worth of X-Men &/or Wolverine movies. Did you not enjoy the movie because you didn't know the adamantium bullet was from X-Men Origins?

Ugh.

The Deadpool teaser was completely separate from the film.

Logan trades off our knowledge of the X-men, but it works very much as a one-off film. It doesn't have The Hulk and Scarlet Witch drop in to develop their relationship that started in the last Avengers movie. It doesn't have the Thing show up for a wicked-cool set-piece cameo that will make fans squeal.

I just find a lot of that stuff distracting and makes the movie worth less to me. I know it has the opposite effect for a lot of people, but that's how I experience it. I'm significantly less excited about Spider-Man Homecoming co-starring Tony Stark as I would be about a one-off Spider-Man film. I think Spider-man is worth far less as a character in a world where New York has literally been invaded by extra-dimensional aliens.