He actual showed quite a bit of emotion. I thought that he would just let every fall icecold, but he even gave Cisco a goodbye speech and told him that he was like a son for him and that he really appreciated his abilities and his person. That's added quite a bit of depth to his character.
The Flash |OT| Gotta Go Fast - Tuesdays 8/7c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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PHOENIXZERO
Member
Then his name would end up being Wally Allen, they'll probably make him a cousin as already stated since they didn't give Iris sibilings. I'm curious what they're going to do with Iris's mother now that they've brought her up in an interview. It came off like she
might be from the future or something instead of Iris
I would imagine within
the next two or three episodes going by the sizzle reel.
Wiktor
Member
Yeah. I feel like this too. I mean...out of all recent comicbook shows Constantine had easily the best writting. Complex lead, zero plotholes, no weak dialogues etc. And I liked that show, but because they rarely went crazy, it never managed to fully realize it's potential and I prefered not only Flash, but also Arrow (which always has been full of holes) a lot more because of that, even if they were rought around the edges.
You all keep mentioning plot holes yet you have no idea how RF or time travel works. Considering the fact that the writers knew from the beginning that Wells=RF, then they knew that any scene where the two were together would have to make sense. So, I don't think we can just straight up say "plot hole" when we know very little about how any of this stuff works.
I don't understand why Wells would blow his cover like that by leaving caitlin. Even if Cisco saw the hologram he still wouldn't have been able to connect the dots to Wells being RF. Wells easily could've made up some b.s excuse about being forced to work for RF.
Also since Barry time traveled does this mean he just merged with his past self or are there two Barry's now in the past-present.
Also since Barry time traveled does this mean he just merged with his past self or are there two Barry's now in the past-present.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I think that when he found out that Barry saw himself he knew it was coming to an end and he couldn't afford to let Cisco inform Barry.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Yeah, agreed there too. Especially since (comic stuff)
a version of the Reverse Flash in the comics isn't even a true speedster, as in he doesn't tap into the speedforce for his abilities, but actually has time-augmentation abilities that closely mimic that of a speedster's
TheGreatDirector
Banned
THIS FUCKING EPISODE.
THIS FUCKING SHOW.
Goddamn this was amazing. The buildup, the character development, everything felt like something out of a finale. What a spectacular episode this was.
THIS FUCKING SHOW.
Goddamn this was amazing. The buildup, the character development, everything felt like something out of a finale. What a spectacular episode this was.
I'm curious if we get any explanation on the false-name.
I was wondering WHY Caitlin went back to the lab after Wells left. I don't get them openly talking about him in his base of operation!
And I think it's been pretty well-established that Wells would kill to protect Barry and his secret... no matter the person.
I was wondering WHY Caitlin went back to the lab after Wells left. I don't get them openly talking about him in his base of operation!
And I think it's been pretty well-established that Wells would kill to protect Barry and his secret... no matter the person.
BKatastrophe
Member
It depends on how big those writing bumps are.
Yeah Constantine did play it weirdly safe for the type of show it was. Started getting more out there near the end of the season, though.
Well, it also doesn't help that, based on the recent "Plot holes in Movies" thread, it's become incredibly apparent that a lot of people don't know what a plot hole exactly is.
But yes, a lot of the issues with this episode may/may not be due to time travel shenanigans. We won't know until the next episode
They could go the Groundhog Day way, and have him repeat the same day, several times, with things going awry differently each time. They could even have it go really well once, but then Iris dies and he has to redo things.
Question though:
Will Wells be aware that Barry time-travelled? The RF's "speed" is actually time-travel, and not Speed Force, right? So he might be able to detect that something has happened
My thoughts exactly.
As soon as Wells heard that Barry saw himself, he knew Barry going back in time was imminent. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Barry tell "15 years ago Wells" about it, which would be how present day Wells knows it's coming.
I am curious to know how Barry knows how far and/or fast to run to get back to the future? Maybe he just has to run into the same spacetime tear?
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Like, origin of the pseudonym? They clearly worked backwards from H.G. Wells because of the Time Machine. They probably didn't want to be that on the nose and call him Herbert as well, so they either chose randomly or used John Harrison, a master watch maker and the person who created a way to correctly establish direction while at sea.
Spectromixer
Member
Just went back and watched some scenes from episode 9. Some ideas:
Wells is on the platform when the Reverse Flash beats him up so he technically could have choreographer getting beat up. Then when he escapes you can tell he is vibrating quickly by the noise he makes when he's going for Joe and eventually getting away.
BKatastrophe
Member
Time travel is always a really rough storytelling device. Always. It gets especially rough when it becomes incorporated into a series where time travel is not the central focus. Now in this case, time travel is a core plot device. The trick here is that it is now introduced very late into the game (there are 7 episodes left, yes?), so now it's going to be incredibly tricky to decided what should and should not be affected by the time travel.
For example, All those people that Wells killed/got killed (Stagg, Girder): Will they come back to life?
More_Badass
Member
Why would they? Barry only went back a day
BKatastrophe
Member
Barry eventually plans on traveling back in time far enough to try to save his mother. Do you not think that he'll go further back in time at some point? A point that can affect those events?
Yes. Shit had he going though it all.
More_Badass
Member
I think the writing bumps in this show are flat out terrible but ymmv
BKatastrophe
Member
Yes and no. I haven't read any specifically Flash comics, but I know a lot about them and have a degree of familiarity with the character (more specifically Wally).
You can only weigh how bad those bumps are based on the trade off of how good the good moments are. Based on that, the only moment that actually flat out bugged me (that I can think of right now) was the whole "cross the streams" stuff. There's no reason that I can concoct in my head why Barry couldn't have just taken them out.
The Cowboy
Member
My god that was good, it was so good we've travelled to an alternate timeline where reviews with B's and 7 to 8 out of 10 now means A and 10/10. Its been a long month, but boy was it worth it.
LumpOfCole
Member
7 episodes left
We already had our first reset
This means 8 episodes of time travel loop
Has Endless Eight come to the Flash???
Stallion Dan
Member
So what was Well's plan when he left the cafe? He just left Caitlin there to figure out what was going on, and even if she didn't just by him vanishing the fact that Cisco suddenly turns up dead...or at least vanishes makes it completely obvious too.
Is almost like he was desperate to stop Cisco finding out the truth and telling Barry, but since he left Caitlin though that is a crappy plan since she was about to anyway if not for getting interupted by a tidle wave problem. Really he should have grabbed Caitlin and took her with him to Cisco, then killed them both.
Dumb moment.
Is almost like he was desperate to stop Cisco finding out the truth and telling Barry, but since he left Caitlin though that is a crappy plan since she was about to anyway if not for getting interupted by a tidle wave problem. Really he should have grabbed Caitlin and took her with him to Cisco, then killed them both.
Dumb moment.
Flash knows what's going to happen now. He's going to save Joe before it comes to the boat scenarioi, get the phone call from Caitlyn about Wells, go to Star Labs, and will hear Wells confession.
More_Badass
Member
Maybe not. Wells knew what point in time Barry would loop back to so perhaps for him all bets were off since time was going to be reset anyway.
The Cowboy
Member
Anyone else ever think we will get to see the original timeline?, i mean this whole series (and Arrows entire run so far) is all set in an alternate timeline due to Reserve Flash and Flash changing things at his mothers death (and with Reserve Flash spending years in our era) - i want a full Flashpoint for sure, but part of me would love to see a few episodes on what happened the 1st time around with Barry getting his powers without Reverse Flash and Flash disrupting the timeline..
MadLaughter
Member
So...Barry is currently in a city with 2 Flashes. If he stops the Weather Wizard too early, the other Flash will never have a reason to do the tsunami barrier, and won't run fast enough to time travel.
More_Badass
Member
No he won't. The discussion about the speed mirage will go differently now and this everything from that point will happen differently. The speed mirage comment from Wellls seemed to be what got the wheels turning in Cisco's head; now that discussion will be about time travel
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I think it's more that it just doesn't matter. Wells knew that Caitlin knew on some level as she was stalling for Cisco. He either didn't want to or didn't care to straight up murder her in the coffee shop and decided to go kill Cisco before he could plan anything or tell anyone else.
The second Wells took off his glasses at the coffee shop he knew he'd have to kill Cisco. Nothing else mattered as suspicion was already on him.
Sure, he could have just ran away in front of her, but that's not his style and we don't really get that cool moment.
More_Badass
Member
I don't think so. Barry just looped back to that same moment as before. Maybe there are parallel timelines now but I think there's only one Barry in that timeline. Everthing from that moment happens differently now.
Purple Cheeto
Member
What's insane about this episode is that there is stuff we aren't even talking about, like Cisco mentioning his family at the start of the episode. Surely that has some future relevance (because honestly on this show you can't discount this kind of stuff).
And yeah the Time Travel stuff just opens up so many questions and problems but man was that fun.
I'm sad that the Iris <3s Barry reveal means I will be seeing less of Linda Park
And yeah the Time Travel stuff just opens up so many questions and problems but man was that fun.
I'm sad that the Iris <3s Barry reveal means I will be seeing less of Linda Park
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Delta Assault
Member
Yeah, I thought that shot and the tidal wave itself looked good.
But there was a shot of Barry running across the coast and leaving a big trail of dust clouds that looked really fake and cartoonish. Felt like something you'd see in a Road Runner cartoon.
DrROBschiz
Member
What's insane about this episode is that there is stuff we aren't even talking about, like Cisco mentioning his family at the start of the episode. Surely that has some future relevance (because honestly on this show you can't discount this kind of stuff).
And yeah the Time Travel stuff just opens up so many questions and problems but man was that fun.
I'm sad that the Iris <3s Barry reveal means I will be seeing less of Linda Park
Im just gonna turn my brain off for the time travel stuff and enjoy the spectacle
Its just one of those things that can never be reconciled in a logical way form all angles
Its the nature of time travel storytelling
Stallion Dan
Member
But Caitin was like 2 words away from spilling it all to Barry, and he would have known despite the reset. Wells didn't know this.
DrROBschiz
Member
I think Barry has to be suspicious of Wells for SURE at this point though
He is the only one to retain all his memories before the Jump as well and will likely still have this in the back of his mind
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
I think you're overestimating what Caitlin knows. She just knows that Wells is doing suspicious things. She doesn't know that he's RF. She's basically a step or two behind what Cisco knows.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I also noticed that Wells (on the platform) never moves after RF starts thrashing the cops, which would make sense for a speed clone.
Here's the best explanation I can think of.
The force field trick can be explained by the Hologram technology. Since this episode reveals that Wells can't time travel at the moment and that the RF initially inside the FF was a projected illusion, it stands to reason that there was only one RF at any given time. Wells rigged the hologram, which is why it ignores Joe's direct question about Norah Allen and only addresses Wells while the force field is up. Wells conveniently mentions that someone with his powerset, which is identical to The Flash, should be able to survive within the forcefield. He also sabotaged the system and cameras, so that Cisco would not be able to trace the moment he pulls "the switch."
Now the switch is the hard part. He has to seamlessly enter the platform, turn off the hologram, begin convincingly pummeling himself as RF (not hard, as it's dark, the cameras are off and Barry isn't there to spot check), All he would require is the briefest microsecond of FF fluctuation to have the hologram "pretend" to run out and grab him, and then he runs in to start the faux-beating.
Then, when the FF is disengaged fully (which only happens when Cisco turns it off manually at Joe's behest), he starts another short looping hologram of Wells (as crack-king and morningbus suggested) just panting on the platform, and goes on to deal with the cops, pretend to menace Eddie, and then kick the crap out of Barry. When he runs off at the end, Barry is nearly unconscious, so he just runs back to the platform, turns off the hologram, and resumes his role as Wells without anyone being the wiser.
This explanation doesn't require any time travel shenanigans or any technology outside of what has already been displayed. A slight alternative is that there never actually was a FF fluctuation, and that Wells simply vibrated through the platform to make Cisco think it had malfunctioned, and simply waited for Cisco to manually turn it off. Neither Flash nor RF has shown the ability to vibrate through solid matter yet, but with the manner of Cisco's death in this ep, it's only a matter of time.
Delta Assault
Member
I think the laziest part of the show is when Barry is right there, but somehow the villain gets away to set up for the final confrontation. They did it twice in this last episode:
1) Barry pulls Joe from the car right before the lightning hits. They watch the car explode. Well... now what? Weather Wizard is still right there, sitting behind the car, right? Why doesn't Barry change into the Flash and fight the Wizard in his car? But no, we just get a commercial break and it's just assumed that Wizard somehow vanished and escaped. Huh?
2) Wizard goes to the CCPD, strikes Captain Singh with lightning, and leaves. Barry races right over and carries Singh to the hospital. But with his speed, he can easily double back afterwards and return to the station. Weather Wizard is sure to be somewhere close to the station, since he doesn't have super speed. But no, somehow he manages to escape again.
1) Barry pulls Joe from the car right before the lightning hits. They watch the car explode. Well... now what? Weather Wizard is still right there, sitting behind the car, right? Why doesn't Barry change into the Flash and fight the Wizard in his car? But no, we just get a commercial break and it's just assumed that Wizard somehow vanished and escaped. Huh?
2) Wizard goes to the CCPD, strikes Captain Singh with lightning, and leaves. Barry races right over and carries Singh to the hospital. But with his speed, he can easily double back afterwards and return to the station. Weather Wizard is sure to be somewhere close to the station, since he doesn't have super speed. But no, somehow he manages to escape again.
Not sure about 2 Flashes, I guess it depends on how they implement the rules around time travel in this universe.
DrROBschiz
Member
With the introduction of Time Travel expect the logic gaps to increase significantly man
You just kind of have to roll with it and focus on the plot points
My predictable predictions for the changes that will happen:
Him stopping the weather wizard early is going to lead into another villain showing up, and the team will become busy with them. Also, he's not going to mention about Iris' suspicions about Wells to Cisco and Caitlyn, because in his mind he's already had the conversation and ignored it. Which in turn, gets rid of the catalyst for Cisco's investigation which will save him (for now).
Also, he's gonna make a move on Iris, who only faced her feelings because it was do or die, so she's not gonna accept her feelings when he confronts her, tells Eddie (or Eddie sees this somehow), who in turn is gonna be mad at Barry. Iris is probably gonna start investigating Wells on her own now as well.
Though for any other show this is probably all that woulld happen and they would returns to their normal life, but just seeing this episode, I wouldn't be surprised at some big gamechangers being introduced.
Septimus Prime
Member
Here's what I don't get: the first time Barry sees himself, he sticks around, while his future self seems to disappear. However, the second time we get that scene, the future version sticks around, while the past version seems to disappear. They even end up with the same "braking" pose in both instances.
'Sup with that?
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