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The Flash S2 |OT2| Jays of Future Past - Tuesdays 8/7c

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P

Permanently A

Junior Member
  • Why didn't Barry just knock Zoom the fuck out?
  • Where did they get high quality life sized cardboard cutouts of Zoom's parents?
  • Why did Barry give Zoom his speed when there was literally no guarantee Zoom would leave them alive?
  • Why is Hunter's origin so lame?
  • Why didn't Harrison immediately recognize Jay's/Hunter's face?
  • Why would Hunter say "this is a complication" after killing Jay if that was his plan all along?
  • Why are they pushing Barry and Iris when they have negative chemistry?
  • If Jay is the one who romanced Caitlyn then why does Hunter have feelings for her?
  • Why is Hunter such an edgelord? That motivation for making Jay pretend to be a hero is seriously weak.
  • How do you kill a past self without killing your present self? a la Eddie's death killing Eobard?

I honestly think this episode might be worse than the bees.
 
P

Patryn

Member
Seriously, that has to be by far the worst episode of The Flash yet. Barry has been stupid in the past, but this was a whole 'nother level.

Even Zoom got beat with the idiot stick, because why he didn't immediately kill everyone at the end before they could blink is stupid.

Stupid, stupid, stupid! Infuriating.
 
Z

Zabka

Member
The whole Iris and Barry plotline is as romantic as an arranged marriage at this point. This season really fell off.
 
B

BLOODED_hands

Member
Earth-1 has a backup plan. They have to. I don't, for a second, believe that Earth-1 would be that stupid to just let Zoom take this huge W.

So does Zoom not need speed anymore? Will he need that craving like addicts do? I was also hoping that Zoom absorbing all that speed would backfire on him. Like his body can't handle it and he disappears into the speed force. It's not a natural way for a speedster to gain more speed and it backfires or something like that.

Tonight gave me more questions than answers lol.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
You know it feels like they just decided on Jay as Zoom in like episode 10 and sort of forced everything to "fit" but nope, Teddy Sears says he knew from the start.
 
D

Dispatch

Member
ZeroX03 said:
You know it feels like they just decided on Jay as Zoom in like episode 10 and sort of forced everything to "fit" but nope, Teddy Sears says he knew from the start.
Click to expand...

It does feel like they made it up as they went, just like who was in the grave over on Arrow.
 
C

Cafeman

Member
Wow, they give us a 3 week break, then come back with an episode that seems like another set of writers continued the story.

I'm confused as to when "Time Remnant" Hunter/Jay showed up. The Jay with the discovered genetic illness, who had no speed, and romanced Caitlan - which Jay was that?

I thought it was Time Remnant "Jay" . But if so, how does Zoom/Jay have feelings for Caitlin? Also, do both Zoom and Time Remnant Hunter have the genetic illness?
 
S

somedevil

Member
I think the Izombie writers have to give tips to other comic show writers on how to make the plot work without making your characters look stupid.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
Cafeman said:
Wow, they give us a 3 week break, then come back with an episode that seems like another set of writers continued the story.

I'm confused as to when "Time Remnant" Hunter/Jay showed up. The Jay with the discovered genetic illness, who had no speed, and romanced Caitlan - which Jay was that?

I thought it was Time Remnant "Jay" . But if so, how does Zoom/Jay have feelings for Caitlin? Also, do both Zoom and Time Remnant Hunter have the genetic illness?
Click to expand...

DPLHiXo.gif
 
NoLootBoxDev

NoLootBoxDev

Member
Does anyone think that the guy with a mask be Ronnie? Got transported to earh 2 and Zoom got all information about flash, it could be possible.
 
P

Permanently A

Junior Member
Honestly the biggest legitimate plothole thus far is that if Jay really was a time remnant then why does Hunter have feelings for Caitlin?
 
S

Seven Force

Banned
Permanently A said:
[*]Why would Hunter say "this is a complication" after killing Jay if that was his plan all along?
Click to expand...
Assuming the time remnant explanation wasn't bullshit and indeed part of the plan, he was probably referring to the breaches being closed.

Man, I was really enjoying the episode until the last 10 minutes. There's no reason why Barry couldn't have fucked Hunter up after handing over Wally.
 
B

Blader

Member
If "Jay" (the Earth-2 Hunter time remnant) was just an earlier version in Zoom's timeline...and he was killed...why does that not erase Zoom out of existence?

Never mind whether it was part of the plan or not, how does a past Zoom being killed not wipe out present Zoom in the process?
 
Maddocks

Maddocks

Member
My only hope is they flashpoint paradox things and have Barry try to get the speed force back by replicating the conditions and that it fails the first time and then works the 2nd.

I did find it odd that Barry is faster then zoom and after he gave back wally they did kinda just hang out and shoot the shit for a few minutes instead of beating him down, I mean like I said before, he was clearly faster. Why not give him a fake enhanced chest piece that took speed away? But I do wonder who is in the iron mask, that is still a good mystery to have in the back pocket.

Even with its few missteps I did love the episode and liked the little twist of being actually two people and how he got his powers. Nice little touches that give the show its own little flavor and charm.
 
P

Permanently A

Junior Member
Blader said:
If "Jay" (the Earth-2 Hunter time remnant) was just an earlier version in Zoom's timeline...and he was killed...why does that not erase Zoom out of existence?

Never mind whether it was part of the plan or not, how does a past Zoom being killed not wipe out present Zoom in the process?
Click to expand...

I'm assuming the time remnant Jay is from another Earth. Otherwise

F7bttaW.gif
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
At least nothing really stops them bringing in the comics Zoom under a different name in the future, this guy has nothing on him.
 
P

Permanently A

Junior Member
Okay here's something I'm confused about. Is the Jay Garrick we know a time remnant from the start, or are Jay and Hunter one and the same?
 
B

BLOODED_hands

Member
Maddocks said:
My only hope is they flashpoint paradox things and have Barry try to get the speed force back by replicating the conditions and that it fails the first time and then works the 2nd.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for at the end of the season. Either that or Wally gets his powers and somehow understands how to use them better than Barry and Zoom.

Barry restarts the whole multiverse but retains all his knowledge on everything he remembers but not for long. Another instance might be that Barry does indeed disappear as the newspaper said and we are stuck with Wally for a season as he discovers his new-found speedster abilities.
 
P

Permanently A

Junior Member
WedgeX said:
Depends upon whether Zoom is a lying sociopath or a supervillain who lays out all his plans for the protagonist.
Click to expand...

I'm leaning towards "one and the same" because its the only way to explain Hunter's feelings for Jay.

But at the same time it feels so off. Like now with every Zoom scene Jay not being there feels like a glaring omission.
 
B

BLOODED_hands

Member
Blader said:
If "Jay" (the Earth-2 Hunter time remnant) was just an earlier version in Zoom's timeline...and he was killed...why does that not erase Zoom out of existence?

Never mind whether it was part of the plan or not, how does a past Zoom being killed not wipe out present Zoom in the process?
Click to expand...

Either speedforceaintgottaexplainshit.gif or speedsters are exempt from what we know of time-traveling shenanigans which.... goes back to my first point, speedforceaintgottaexplainshit.gif

Regular humans and meta-humans are not exempt and once wiped out from a timeline they are gone for good. Meanwhile speedsters are stuck in the speed force and are "alive" by being in the speed force until they are removed. Like Barry Allen I suppose.
 
G

Gig

One man's junk is another man's treasure
I remember a few weeks ago my mom said she was confused by Zoom's plotline. I don't know where she will be after this.
 
W

wamberz1

Member
Jay went to a different point in time. Kidnapped himself from the past. Convinced himself to help. Convinced him to die for himself which he agreed to because crazy. Zoom wasn't erased from existence because timeforce.

Jay gets feeling for caitlin, which alter the timeline and make zoom have them.

Or at least that what I got from it. Simple enough.
 
P

Permanently A

Junior Member
wamberz1 said:
Jay went to a different point in time. Kidnapped himself from the past. Convinced himself to help. Convinced him to die for himself which he agreed to because crazy. Zoom wasn't erased from existence because timeforce.

Jay gets feeling for caitlin, which alter the timeline and make zoom have them.

Or at least that what I got from it. Simple enough.
Click to expand...

Then Hunter should be dead after killing himself... right?
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
Past Hunter/Jay Garrick has time paradox immunity like Eobard. He retains memories, but can still die. For no reason in particular. That's about it.
 
A

Averon

Member
This whole episode was confusing.

So Earth-2 Jay that fought Zoom is the man in the mask?
Why didn't Wells remember time remnant Jay is Zolomon?
 
W

wamberz1

Member
ZeroX03 said:
Past Hunter/Jay Garrick has time paradox immunity like Eobard. He retains memories, but can still die. For no reason in particular. That's about it.
Click to expand...

Basically. Which, when you think about it means speedsters of the arrowverse are even more ridiculous than their comic counterparts and are approaching demonbane levels of overpoweredness, since they can potentially summon infinite versions of themselves.
 
C

carlsojo

Member
Jays of Future Past is the most fitting title for this show now more than anything else.

WHO IS IN THE IRON MASK

Is it
ZeroX03
?
 
T

ThusZarathustra

Member
The problem with "Heart, Humor, Spectacle" as the formula of the show is that leaves things like plot coherence in the dust. Which is fine when you're establishing the rules of a universe, but when it looks like you break, defy, or ignore your own rules for the sake of feels it makes it real hard for your viewers to stay totally invested.

That said I thought the episode was basically fine. Dumb and confusing and plot-hammery but fine. It's the difference between going "Oooooooh, okay, now I get it." and "Okay, fine, I guess that's what happened."

I think I said it before in the old thread, but Season One was more coherent, like a well-thought through graphic novel, while Season Two is much more like an improvised run of issues.
 
C

carlsojo

Member
No but really, this episode is dumb. Like there is dumb and I can still go with it (like the previous episode where Flash stomped on as many butterflies as possible and it all turned out alright) and then there is DUMB where the bad guy is standing right in front of you and for some reason you're giving him your speed? Jesus.
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Good lord even Harry and Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber would've been able to realize how stupid that was. Everyone gets their own idiot ball.
 
R

RellyRell28

Banned
Oh look GAF is turning on The Flash as well.

HGtmgXu.gif


Averon said:
This whole episode was confusing.

So Earth-2 Jay that fought Zoom is the man in the mask?
Why didn't Wells remember time remnant Jay is Zolomon?
Click to expand...

You do realize that was a story told by Jay/Hunter right? So it's not real at all. Not hard man. I mean he literally said he paraded as the hero to give them hope so he can take it.
 
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