Angelus Errare
Banned
This was such a struggle episode. Like what does Team Flash suddenly have a code of honor that they strictly adhere to even when facing their worst enemies?!
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The Flash S2 |OT2| Jays of Future Past - Tuesdays 8/7c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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Oh look GAF is turning on The Flash as well.
You do realize that was a story told by Jay/Hunter right? So it's not real at all. Not hard man. I mean he literally said he paraded as the hero to give them hope so he can take it.
I don't think you know what being salty actually means.
This episode was overly complicated and stretched the believability of stupidity from it's characters to Legends of Tomorrow levels. That's hard in a show which successfully portrayed a giant shark man.
Who else?
It wasn't just a story, we were shown it. It's a bit different to have a character lie, but it was presented to the audience as truth.
Especially when it's well established that Earth-2 lives don't matter.
RellyRell28
Banned
So what we were show it. It still doesn't make it valid just because it was visual representation. Young Hunter was still telling us the story
Yeah they dedicated time to the show to make a point that he was a liar. It was pretty clear and cut.
Because most shows don't outright show you lies presented as the truth (or they do it more than once). Especially since other flashbacks to Earth-2 were true. It's a bad way to do it, especially when we aren't aware it's a lie for something like five months.
Don't defend this mess.
Oh look GAF is turning on The Flash as well.
You do realize that was a story told by Jay/Hunter right? So it's not real at all. Not hard man. I mean he literally said he paraded as the hero to give them hope so he can take it.
But, as ZeroX03 said, we were actually shown it, and their battles were public on Earth-2. Harrison should not have been confused who Zolomon was, unless you want me to believe that a beard and some long hair was enough to fool Wells and everyone on Earth-2
Jay Garrick is a very different, much better character in the comics.
Zoom / Hunter Zolomon is a very different, much better character in the comics.
The two of them also aren't related in any way.
I'm totally for them changing character stories if it does something new, interesting or straight up better than the comics. Eobard was an improvement. But this time they took the original Flash, made him a chump and a liar and they took Hunter Zolomon, a villain with an interesting motive and terrifying demeanor and turned him into a speed addict serial killer.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Well yeah. Now that you think about it, how is forcing a dying murderous speedster into your reality with everyone you love a logical thing to do? Almost as dumb as Barry deciding to time travel at the risk of the universe. I realize we have to have risks because of plot, but it takes you out of it every time Barry just irresponsibly throws caution to the wind and it blows up in his face. Just because the other characters tell him flat out it's a terrible idea doesn't make it okay.
I'm not defending it, just saying how things were. The scene where he tells Caitlyn that he was lying the entire time is to establish partially that he is an unreliable narrator. The only times we have seen flashbacks of Jay were told through the eyes of Wells, and that was only what, once? There's a million other things to complain about, this isn't one of them.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I mean seriously! He gives you Wally and you still give him the speedforce because....?...?...!? Code of honor nonsense.
ThusZarathustra
Member
There's a lot of other weirdness in the episode, but it's this that kinda stands out the most to me.
I can forgive the time travel fuckery, and the fact Team Flash are honor-bound to be idiots, but the idea that Jay ran around for years as the Flash and no one recognized the face of a 23-count serial killer is just... dumb.
This is exactly how Olicity started. Just have them be with who they're supposed to be and stop all the drama.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
They could still salvage this mess if the man in the iron mask is the real Jay Garrick. And not Hunter's dad or Earth 2 Eobard or something equally stupid.
roflwaffles
Member
This was the most disappointed I've been in this show so far.
Thinking the man in the iron mask is E3 or time remnant Barry now.
Thinking the man in the iron mask is E3 or time remnant Barry now.
More_Badass
Member
Even more so when Wells explicitly says that serial killers are rare so Zolomon's case was very publicized
Well, I was about to post but it seems everything has been covered.
That was pretty...absolutely horrible
That was probably the worst part. I mean, what did they think Zoom was gonna do?
And how did Zoom get back to Earth 1? He obviously couldn't do it by himself before. Did Cisco leave that breach open or something? They didn't specify.
If Zoom and Jay were separate, how does zoom know Caitlyn?
Wells didn't recognize that instantly recognizable face?
Shouldn't killing Jay kill zoom?
etc
man, i can't even...
That was pretty...absolutely horrible
That was probably the worst part. I mean, what did they think Zoom was gonna do?
And how did Zoom get back to Earth 1? He obviously couldn't do it by himself before. Did Cisco leave that breach open or something? They didn't specify.
If Zoom and Jay were separate, how does zoom know Caitlyn?
Wells didn't recognize that instantly recognizable face?
Shouldn't killing Jay kill zoom?
etc
man, i can't even...
RellyRell28
Banned
Ummm wow okay then
It's just bad storytelling. A show that has plenty of flashbacks, and cuts to Earth-2 (that episode ends on a scene in Earth-2). There was no reason to show us a lie presented in a method that was always used to show us true events. If they'd done it multiple times, that'd be a little more justified because it sets a pattern. But every other time it's been true. And then they don't establish it's a lie for 16 episodes.
Of course we don't even see what really happens. That Zoom was acting as Jay makes no sense, they didn't justify it other than "rip hope away". Silly silly silly. And then the serial killer Wells knows by name but apparently can't recognize.
Olicity is better than Laurel and Oliver ever was. They followed the chemistry. It's fine to do that, Olicity drama is the problem. Few people have issues with them when they're getting along fine.
Eloquent.
CreeperBlocks
Banned
Okay I have a few questions because I'm really confused.
Who did Hunter Zolomon Kill? Was it Earth 2 Jay or another Version of Hunter Zolomon?
Also who do you guys think is in the Mask? Is it someone we know (
) or someone not introduced?
Who did Hunter Zolomon Kill? Was it Earth 2 Jay or another Version of Hunter Zolomon?
Also who do you guys think is in the Mask? Is it someone we know (
I think it's Earth-2 Wally
He killed a version of himself that he stole from an earlier timeline that was immune to time paradoxes for some reason, while retaining his memories.
RellyRell28
Banned
Reading how you guys are reacting shows me how much of a better approach I have of watching these show. Maybe it's because I'm not a true comic head( I grew up on pretty much all the shows and cartoons based on the comics).
CreeperBlocks
Banned
Yeah. Just a terrible ending to that episode. So stupid.
They're going to have Jay, Iron Mask one, give up his speed to Barry probably.
You're right, you're totally better than us for being able to ignore poor story telling.
I totally do it for Arrow, makes it much easier to swallow.
Legends
Yep.
I don't get what you're saying. The problem with what just happened has nothing to do with a comic book.
RellyRell28
Banned
At least I'm not here salty as fuck.
CreeperBlocks
Banned
It's going to be Barry's Dad as the 1990 Flash and he's from a different earth, and Zolomon just captured him.
We will get more posts similar to this. Same thing happened with Arrow. "Lol I don't care about comics and you're canon, I'm enjoying the show lol stay salty nerds" even when people have major gripes over the story telling and presentation. From Arrow, to Supergirl, back to Flash, Legends is the only DC show to have an okay episode recently, while Gotham is running laps around everyone else.
There's a lot I'm willing to let slide but A) Barry simply giving Zoom his speed and B) Wells not even recognizing that Hunter and Jay have the same face is blatantly lazy writing. The latter is so obviously terrible that it makes me believe Zoom is lying through his teeth about something.
RellyRell28
Banned
Basically
Don't get me wrong those were bad but it didn't break the episode or anything.
Apparently they're low enough to taunt him with memories of his parents but not as low to renege on a deal as that would be crossing the line.
Oh yes just continue to ignore the legitimate gripes people have and mock them instead. Genius idea there mate.Basically
Reptars Revenge
Member
Avatar quote
These were the worst episodes of flash and arrow. Jay being in the man in the mask could save it because right now we are supposed to assume Hunter was good Jay or there was no good Jay. He went back in time to get another Jay to fight and then kill him. At least if it was an Earth 1 Jay it would make sense.
Forget everyone attacking you, I want to hear about this approach that makes Season 2 Episode 18 make sense.
More_Badass
Member
Doesn't have a thing to do with comic books. I don't even read DC comics. The ridiculous decisions made by characters and the reveals that raised more questions and only exposed plot holes, that's all on the show
The Hermit
Member
Well, first Arrow, then Legends...
It was supposed to happen guys, there's no way The Flash wouldn't shit its bed. Lets hope they fix it quicly
It was supposed to happen guys, there's no way The Flash wouldn't shit its bed. Lets hope they fix it quicly
BLOODED_hands
Member
Yea I was disappointed by the fake Jay. Zoom planned a shitload of stuff early on. Played everyone, even himself lol.
He loved every second of his lies. Zoom is straight up legit crazy until his past self's emotions came out for Caitlyn.
I'm thinking masked man is Jay Garrick and all his powers were drained by Hunter Zolomon. The reason why he got so upset when Barry spoke of Jay was that he was Jay and Zoom is not Jay.
Kabuki Waq
Member
actually comic heads should love the show as it is becoming just as convoluted and dumb as the comics it is based on.
RellyRell28
Banned
I mean we it's legitimate GAF overreacting. I mean it was inevitable that Flash-GAF was gonna turn on the show. I'm just glad I wasn't around during the Smallville days.
Oh lord. I dropped that show after S1, but are things now so bad that Gotham is considered the best of the bunch?!
Kabuki Waq
Member
You're literally just dismissing it as overreacting. You're not making an argument at all.
Gotham has been baller since the second half of S1
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