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[caliph95]

Also, Emo Barry 2024 is either from an alternate future, or he lied about not knowing who Savitar is.

Alternate future since savitar knew what Barry was going to do even though this one met the scientist way earlier than he was supposed to

Where was it explained that Savitar exists from Savitar killing Iris?

Nothing really people are assuming since Iris death has been shown and explained to us the reasons for him going a darker path

 

[CryptiK]

Alternate future since savitar knew what Barry was going to do even though this one met the scientist way earlier than he was supposed to

Nothing really people are assuming since Iris death has been shown and explained to us the reasons for him going a darker path

Oh ok cool. I still think SaviBarry is pre flashpoint future Flash pissed off at current Flash for killing everything he loves by erasing the timeline. It lines up with everything he said to Barry so far as well.

Also, Emo Barry 2024 is either from an alternate future, or he lied about not knowing who Savitar is.

Or 2024 Barry doesnt become Savitar.

There is no reason for current timeline Barry to change into Savitar and it had to have started at some point. So what made Barry become Savitar, I don't think it can be Savitar.

 

[Freshmaker]

Judging from Twitters reaction, GAF might have figured it but shitloads of people are shook right now.

Is it me or GAF is way too cynical about this season? Internet is fucking hyped right now.

That only shows that there are a lotta stupid people on Twitter.

 

[Magwik]

Where was it explained that Savitar exists from Savitar killing Iris?

I mean, Savitar is Barry when he loses everything. That was the whole point of the last minute or two. Savitar kills Iris to create himself. "I created myself"

 

[CryptiK]

I mean, Savitar is Barry when he loses everything. That was the whole point of the last minute or two. Savitar kills Iris to create himself. "I created myself"

I created myself can be taken in multiple ways. EG He is Barry and because Barry erased the pre-flashpoint timeline from existence he still would have created himself, especially since the effect of existing where you shouldn't assimilates your memories. I just don't see the logical reasoning that current Barry would go and be Savitar after Savitar caused the big problem in the first place. Also look at 2024 Barry he seemed somewhat fixed before currBarry left. I think the biggest reveal will be how and why he became Savitar because I don't see it being like people are assuming.

 

[Magwik]

I created myself can be taken in multiple ways. EG He is Barry and because Barry erased the pre-flashpoint timeline from existence he still would have created himself, especially since the effect of existing where you shouldn't assimilates your memories. I just don't see the logical reasoning that current Barry would go and be Savitar after Savitar caused the big problem in the first place. Also look at 2024 Barry he seemed somewhat fixed before currBarry left.

That's only a possible future. Barry going there and getting the info erased that one already.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

Judging from Twitters reaction, GAF might have figured it but shitloads of people are shook right now.

Is it me or GAF is way too cynical about this season? Internet is fucking hyped right now.

GAF keeps telling me Arrow Season 3 and 4 were utter shit but I actually enjoyed them a bit, obviously not even close to the first 2 seasons but not bad.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Or 2024 Barry doesnt become Savitar.

There is no reason for current timeline Barry to change into Savitar and it had to have started at some point. So what made Barry become Savitar, I don't think it can be Savitar.

I mean, Savitar is Barry when he loses everything. That was the whole point of the last minute or two. Savitar kills Iris to create himself. "I created myself"

Actually, I wonder if Barry's intervention in 2024 stopped Barry-2024 from becoming Savitar later on. When Savitar-Barry stepped out of the suit, I honestly thought it would be Barry-2024 because he fits all the criteria: he experienced the loss of everything as Barry, he was Barry and experienced a version of that past, and he didn't really go out of his way to help anyone until the very end of the episode—but even then he actually "helps" Barry by giving him a tip on how to trap "Savitar" in the Speed Force. All they would have to do is tweak things slightly to say that him being surprised at Barry visiting 2024 was an act, and things fall into place just according to keikaku*.

*keikaku means plan

 

[Magwik]

GAF keeps telling me Arrow Season 3 and 4 were utter shit but I actually enjoyed them a bit, obviously not even close to the first 2 seasons but not bad.

Did you marathon S3 and 4?


Also I just want to know why Savitar has actually done nothing but ragdoll Barry and Jay a bit. And how the philosophers stone makes any sense now. And Flashpoint. And the future.

 

[CryptiK]

Actually, I wonder if Barry's intervention in 2024 stopped Barry-2024 from becoming Savitar later on. When Savitar-Barry stepped out of the suit, I honestly thought it would be Barry-2024 because he fits all the criteria: he experienced the loss of everything as Barry, he was Barry and experienced a version of that past, and he didn't really go out of his way to help anyone until the very end of the episode—but even then he actually "helps" Barry by giving him a tip on how to trap "Savitar" in the Speed Force. All they would have to do is tweak things slightly to say that him being surprised at Barry visiting 2024 was an act, and things fall into place just according to keikaku*.

*keikaku means plan

I dunno, I hope it all gets explained. I can't see how Barry missing Iris so much would go back and kill her because, he killed her already? I just hope it gets explained.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

Did you marathon S3 and 4?


Also I just want to know why Savitar has actually done nothing but ragdoll Barry and Jay a bit. And how the philosophers stone makes any sense now. And Flashpoint. And the future.

I did actually. Maybe that was it.

 

[carlsojo]

I don't think it will happen, but it would be pretty cool to see evil Barry interact/fight with other Arrowverse characters. Something like the penultimate episode of S1, except it's Flash/Green Arrow/Supergirl vs. Savitar.

 

[Magwik]

I did actually. Maybe that was it.

The general consensus is that they fair better marathoning than watching week to week.

 

[Billfisto]

That's only a possible future. Barry going there and getting the info erased that one already.

That don't make no sense. How could Barry get information from a future that doesn't exist?

Even if you say "Speedforce lets his brain remember it even though reality changed", how did he bring back a physical object (the hologram)?

Changing the present changes the Weird Newspaper that updates in the present to reflect the new future. Wouldn't changing the present based on information that comes from a future that no longer exists because you've changed the present ca...*ASPLODE*

 

[Septimus Prime]

I dunno, I hope it all gets explained. I can't see how Barry missing Iris so much would go back and kill her because, he killed her already? I just hope it gets explained.

Okay. Here's my train of thought: Barry-2024 already lost Iris and, because of that, everyone else. He has no one—not even villains—and probably goes crazy in solitude, obsessing over that moment when Savitar killed Iris and how to fix it. Problem is, he's too slow.

What we learned last night from the new girl whose name I don't care to remember, though, is that Savitar's suit actually decreases Speed Force friction or some such, which is what allows Savitar to be way faster than regular speedsters.

So, Barry-2024, in his obsession to go ever faster to be fast enough to stop Savitar eventually realizes that the only way he could possibly get that fast is to actually become Savitar, and the only way to do that is to fuck with a past version of himself to ensure that his past self will follow his own path.

The only (huge) problem with this, of course, is that Savitar already experienced a version of the present that's "out of order," compared to Barry-2024's timeline, and regular Barry already knows that Savitar is future-him. The only ways to reconcile this cleanly are to either say that Barry-2024 knew all along and was just lying to Barry, or they could just say it's an alternate timeline.

I'm leaning towards alternate timeline, as otherwise, there's really no feasible way to have Barry to save Iris and beat Savitar without also creating an alternate timeline, plus we already know that alternate timelines exist in this universe.

 

[JStein0222]

1. Some crazy bad guy shows up and kills Iris and screws up Barry's life and gives him face scars.

2. Barry goes back in time as Savitar and kills Iris

3. Current Barry foresees Iris' death, forcing him to get stronger and eventually defeat Savitar SO THAT

4. Point #1 can be avoided with new and improved tough Barry

Is this what is going on?

 

[CryptiK]

Okay. Here's my train of thought: Barry-2024 already lost Iris and, because of that, everyone else. He has no one—not even villains—and probably goes crazy in solitude, obsessing over that moment when Savitar killed Iris and how to fix it. Problem is, he's too slow.

What we learned last night from the new girl whose name I don't care to remember, though, is that Savitar's suit actually decreases Speed Force friction or some such, which is what allows Savitar to be way faster than regular speedsters.

So, Barry-2024, in his obsession to go ever faster to be fast enough to stop Savitar eventually realizes that the only way he could possibly get that fast is to actually become Savitar, and the only way to do that is to fuck with a past version of himself to ensure that his past self will follow his own path.

The only (huge) problem with this, of course, is that Savitar already experienced a version of the present that's "out of order," compared to Barry-2024's timeline, and regular Barry already knows that Savitar is future-him. The only ways to reconcile this cleanly are to either say that Barry-2024 knew all along and was just lying to Barry, or they could just say it's an alternate timeline.

I'm leaning towards alternate timeline, as otherwise, there's really no feasible way to have Barry to save Iris and beat Savitar without also creating an alternate timeline, plus we already know that alternate timelines exist in this universe.

Yeah see, becoming Savitar to beat Savitar makes no sense at all. You beat Savitar simply by not becoming him.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Yeah see, becoming Savitar to beat Savitar makes no sense at all. You beat Savitar simply by not becoming him.

Problem is you already became him, and he already killed your fiancee. So, as it already happened, all you can do is find a way to fix it, and the only way to do that is to become him.

 

[Billfisto]

Problem is you already became him, and he already killed your fiancee. So, as it already happened, all you can do is find a way to fix it, and the only way to do that is to become him.

But the "you already became him" is in the future and hasn't happened yet. Savitar hasn't killed Iris yet.

Eddie was already Eobard's ancestor. He stopped things that had "already happened" in the future by changing the present.

 

[Pics_nao]

So, when's the S3 soundtrack releasing? I need that full Savitar theme.

 

[Magwik]

But the "you already became him" is in the future and hasn't happened yet. Savitar hasn't killed Iris yet.

Eddie was already Eobard's ancestor. He stopped things that had "already happened" in the future by changing the present.

And it almost destroyed the entire fabric of the universe too.

 

[CryptiK]

And it almost destroyed the entire fabric of the universe too.

Then why wouldn't saving Iris have the same effect? It all just doesnt make sense.

 

[Septimus Prime]

But the "you already became him" is in the future and hasn't happened yet. Savitar hasn't killed Iris yet.

Eddie was already Eobard's ancestor. He stopped things that had "already happened" in the future by changing the present.

Yes, but he did not succeed in wiping out a copy of Eobard who was in the Speed Force, which in turn meant he only erased a single instance of Eobard in the long run.

Savitar was/will be/is in the Speed Force, so he cannot be wiped out that way.

 

[darkmark1987]

My theory on how kf knew what Barry was going to say in the warehouse scene, basically as Barry and savitar exist in the same time line, savitar is experiencing the changes in the time line, similar to what Barry was experiencing in flash point time line when he was losing his memory, so savitar is assimilating the memories as time goes on, hence knowing Barry would find the doctor 4 years early.

Although the show seems to be offering that savitar is predicting the moves Barry makes,as he is that exact barry and remembers it. Find that hard to believe even for a superhero show, He lived in the speed force for years upon years. Can anyone remember exactly what you said in an important moment in your life? Eg 80 yr old you remember the exact words you said to everyone in a group in the bar when you met you SO? You may recall the words you said to the SO but not everything going on in your life that day.

Prefer my memory assimilation theory as savitar interacts with the world after release from the speed force. He remembers moments before it happens.

Either that or savitar used the speed force to steal the script....

 

[Magwik]

Then why wouldn't saving Iris have the same effect? It all just doesnt make sense.

Basically what it looks like they are going to do is essentially freeze Savitar in the Speedforce. He will still exist however he will be removed from all events. Thus time will take a different path, one where Savitar doesn't kill Iris, thus Barry doesn't become Savitar.

 

[Joni]

They'll need to work on this timeline stuff. Halfassed Zoom still worked although you had to draw out a lot of stuff. This one will need a lot more work.

 

[ZeroX03]

Or you can just not put spoilers in a title and fuck over anyone not in NA or with VPN.

You'd have no idea it's a spoiler unless you're relatively up to date. We've been saying "it was me, Barry" in a very different context for years now.

So, when's the S3 soundtrack releasing? I need that full Savitar theme.

Probably not until October, sadly. I'll post up if it's sooner.

 

[Malreyn]

My theory on how kf knew what Barry was going to say in the warehouse scene, basically as Barry and savitar exist in the same time line, savitar is experiencing the changes in the time line, similar to what Barry was experiencing in flash point time line when he was losing his memory, so savitar is assimilating the memories as time goes on, hence knowing Barry would find the doctor 4 years early.

Although the show seems to be offering that savitar is predicting the moves Barry makes,as he is that exact barry and remembers it. Find that hard to believe even for a superhero show, He lived in the speed force for years upon years. Can anyone remember exactly what you said in an important moment in your life? Eg 80 yr old you remember the exact words you said to everyone in a group in the bar when you met you SO? You may recall the words you said to the SO but not everything going on in your life that day.

Prefer my memory assimilation theory as savitar interacts with the world after release from the speed force. He remembers moments before it happens.

Either that or savitar used the speed force to steal the script....

If they went with how the movie "Looper" addressed time travel, maybe he's from a different time line and lived a life full of different events, but because he's altering the timeline, he develops new memories of the "present" as they happen, or in this case, "shortly before they happen"

 

[Septimus Prime]

Why would you name a coffee after Zoom?

 

[JStein0222]

Why would you name a coffee after Zoom?

It was on the secret menu for a reason lol

 

[jwk94]

We been over this it's Eddie

That actually makes a lot of sense.

But then why did Savitar ever exist to kill Iris in the first place if Savitar in theory wasn't created until after her death in order to stop, well, Savitar?

Err....I'm still trying to figure out that detail lol.

 

[TheOMan]

But then how would Savitar be able to tell Caitlin the exact words Barry would say before he even said them? That's not a new memory until it happens.

...


Ummmm, Speedforce?

 

[Septimus Prime]

It was on the secret menu for a reason lol

Jitters is not In-N-Out.

"Give me a three by three with a four by four and some Zoom."

 

[Toa TAK]

Time hasn't made sense on this show since The Flash accidentally time traveled to stop a tsunami.

 

[Billfisto]

Yes, but he did not succeed in wiping out a copy of Eobard who was in the Speed Force, which in turn meant he only erased a single instance of Eobard in the long run.

Savitar was/will be/is in the Speed Force, so he cannot be wiped out that way.

Just let Black Flash take care of Savitar after that, then.

Wait, maybe when Barry ran to the future and saw Savitar killing Iris, he didn't actually run to the real future, but instead he ran to the Speedforce Prison where Savitar is trapped, endlessly watching the worst moment of his life (watching Savitar kill Iris) over and over again, like Wally had to watch his mom die.

Barry does/did/has change(d) the future, but because Savitar's in the speedforce, that timeline shift doesn't happen for him, which is why it always still looks like he kills Iris no matter what they do.

 

[Draconestra]

The time travel shenanigans this show is pulling just for this season is absurd. I mean, Savitar is future Barry? Come on now.

Last three episodes better be good.

 

[rackham]

Someone explain all the shit about Flash not trusting past Flash on Legends and other shitty easter eggs

 

[Magwik]

Someone explain all the shit about Flash not trusting past Flash on Legends and other shitty easter eggs

"Hey guys I changed the timeline when you were away so deal with it"

 

[Freshmaker]

I dunno, I hope it all gets explained. I can't see how Barry missing Iris so much would go back and kill her because, he killed her already? I just hope it gets explained.

All the time travel has injured time and it's falling apart. The only way to fix it? Travel back to the point where the rift was created it and steal it by killing past Barry. The Speedforce explosion that it creates will be enough to seal the rift and return time to its normal functionality.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Just let Black Flash take care of Savitar after that, then.

Wait, maybe when Barry ran to the future and saw Savitar killing Iris, he didn't actually run to the real future, but instead he ran to the Speedforce Prison where Savitar is trapped, endlessly watching the worst moment of his life (watching Savitar kill Iris) over and over again, like Wally had to watch his mom die.

Barry does/did/has change(d) the future, but because Savitar's in the speedforce, that timeline shift doesn't happen for him, which is why it always still looks like he kills Iris no matter what they do.

So, if Black Flash gets Savitar, that might wipe all instances of him, right? Savitar is probably faster than Black Flash, too.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Someone explain all the shit about Flash not trusting past Flash on Legends and other shitty easter eggs

That storyline ended up being such a bust. I think the crossover killed it.

 

[GulAtiCa]

Maybe it was related to this Savitar and not trusting future Barry/etc. Still a bust though.

 

[Magwik]

I'd say the biggest trip up is the implication that Savitar existed before Flashpoint.

 

[BLOODED_hands]

I'm sitting on the toilet reading all of your crazy and funny theories and going

Carry on.

 

[sirap]

Black Flash can't take care of Savitar if he's slower.

Which makes the whole thing stupid. Things were simpler back in Season 1 when changes to the timeline took effect immediately. Now you gotta have Speedforce agents taking care of speedsters who should be dead.

What's the point of sending Terminators if you're not gonna give them enough juice to catch speedsters? Fuck off Speedforce, you're drunk.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I'd say the biggest trip up is the implication that Savitar existed before Flashpoint.

I need a chart because what's even worse to me is that this Savitar isn't just Savitar, it's also a future version of Savitar. So it's the Savitar that was imprisoned in the speed force after terrorizing Team Flash for 4 years, after killing Iris and breaking Wally's back. So this Savitar kills Iris and then...becomes a past version of himself? There's a version of Savitar missing. Not just Barry transforming into Savitar.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I'm sitting on the toilet reading all of your crazy and funny theories and going

Carry on.

Don't drop your phone.

I'd say the biggest trip up is the implication that Savitar existed before Flashpoint.

He was/is in the Speed Force, so he would exist in all times.

 

[Magwik]

I need a chart because what's even worse to me is that this Savitar isn't just Savitar, it's also a future version of Savitar. So it's the Savitar that was imprisoned in the speed force after terrorizing Team Flash for 4 years, after killing Iris and breaking Wally's back. So this Savitar kills Iris and then...becomes a past version of himself? There's a version of Savitar missing. Not just Barry transforming into Savitar.

Savitar is a big ball of why you show, not tell.

It's almost a lock they didn't know where they were going from his first appearance.

 

[CryptiK]

Basically what it looks like they are going to do is essentially freeze Savitar in the Speedforce. He will still exist however he will be removed from all events. Thus time will take a different path, one where Savitar doesn't kill Iris, thus Barry doesn't become Savitar.

See this is something I noticed there is seemingly only one Savitar. Look at this order.

1. Barry becomes Savitar
2. Savitar kills Iris
3. Trapped
4. Baits Barry n co to untrap him.
5. Kills Iris again
6. Go back to step 3 and repeat.


Since Savitar always exclaims that Barry trapped him and he knows the out come it seems like Savitar is a constant in this loop. So if there is only one Savitar then how does future Barry become him.

100% dont think Savitar is future Barry of this timeline.

 

[Vengal]

I'd be content with Savitar just being evil, if it ends up being some sort of infamous/Kessler style preparing Barry for a great evil that would be a wet fart for me.

Wonder if they'll ever bring up the message future Barry sent to the legends or the 2024 disappearance, or what specifically reverse flash did to this timeline.