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The Formula 1 2013 Season |OT| End of the Webber Era
- Thread starter Leunam
- Start date
Disqualified from the WDC, gogogogogo
ridiculous
PdotMichael
Banned
FIA in charge of being consistent.
Hamilton does such donuts all the time and no one cares.
Hamilton does such donuts all the time and no one cares.
In truth, I've barely watched any of this season at all because it's been so boring. I might watch the Grand Prix of the Americas because that will probably be somewhat exciting, but this season has been terrible compared to last season. It was really sad that even races at Spa and Monza were snoozefests.
Yeah, it used to be that Newey sacrificed straight line speed in favor of downforce, so at high speed circuits you could at least expect somewhat of a race due to RBR not having the advantage, but this car has no weaknesses. It's so far ahead of anything else on the track it's ridiculous. The damn thing is on rails, and even when he's not at the limit, missing apexes, not using the whole track etc. he's still shitting on everyone else. Not to take away from Vettel's wins or championships, but when you win in a car that's disgustingly faster than your competition that ain't really saying much. Congrats to Vettel on his 4th thought.
pants
Member
This team is really souring me on them. I supported Grosjean when he was crashing every other race but he's become a fucking baby the last few races with this crying on the radio shit. And like I said earlier, there is some fucked up shit going on between Lotus and Kimi ever since he said he was going.
I dont currently support a team, only Kimi, but I intended on continuing to cheer for Lotus next year (especially if they got HULK) after he leaves, but all of this stuff is leaving an awful taste in my mouth.
Just popping by to say:
1) Congrats to Vettel. Deserved champion and a true great.
2) Best Indian GP to date (or ever). Not saying much.
3) Grosjean's driving better than ever. Finally figured it out, at long last.
4) Trying to sympathise with Kimi, but I just... can't.
5) Webbah. :'(
6) Hulk
7) CHECOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
8) Burnouts = fantastic. FIA needs to change its rule book to encourage more excitement.
9) Bring on 2014. I honestly can't wait.
1) Congrats to Vettel. Deserved champion and a true great.
2) Best Indian GP to date (or ever). Not saying much.
3) Grosjean's driving better than ever. Finally figured it out, at long last.
4) Trying to sympathise with Kimi, but I just... can't.
5) Webbah. :'(
6) Hulk
7) CHECOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
8) Burnouts = fantastic. FIA needs to change its rule book to encourage more excitement.
9) Bring on 2014. I honestly can't wait.
Also Prost said that 26 was his age when he first won a F1 race. He seemed genuinely happy that Vettel had reached his level, it looks like he has a lot of respect for him.
DancingCactus77
Member
Kimi should have parked the car when Alan told him to get out of the fucking way.
On The Edge of Insanity
Member
Is that the same 'disgustingly faster' car that has his teammate fifth in the championship, with no wins and just three second place finishes so far this season? Disgustingly fast is Williams 92/93 or Ferrari 2004. This Red Bull is the fastest car on the grid, but Webber's performance shows that Vettel's excellence has played a significant role in his dominance of the second half of the season. A refusal to acknowledge this is simply sour grapes.
Oh, get over yourself.
Sixth season, fourth title. I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around this. Someone post more statistics to put this in perspective. Either way congrats! Hopefully next year Ferrari can get their shit together and Alonso is still driving for them.
Also I thought him winning the championship would have warranted a seperate OT thread, but oh well.
edit: I haven't actually watched the race, is it worth watching?
Also I thought him winning the championship would have warranted a seperate OT thread, but oh well.
edit: I haven't actually watched the race, is it worth watching?
This is him against Schumi after 112 races
But this is before 1999 when Schumacher became unstoppable for so long. Although Schumacher had good equipment in those first races, he never had the consistently good equipment Vettel has had so far nor the reliability either.
Still, I imagine he's what Vettel will be aiming for with regards to WDCs etc.
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
Ridiculous..
Only reason I'm watching the races is because I'm scared of missing another Brazil 08 or Canada 2011. Doesn't seem like it will happen this year though.
Oh Vettel, you destroy me.
You mean the same team mate that always fucks up the starts of his races? The same team mate that had multiple failures and a reprimands this season, yet he still manages plow through the field and snatch back points. Im surprised hes in 5th after all the dnfs. I mean everyone knows vettel is faster than Webber, but let's not act like if Webber was in any other car on the grid rbr would be in the cc lead right now, let alone webber be 5th in the championship.
I don't hate vettel, and I'm not sour that he's winning, I hate that this comes up eveytime someone states the obvious.
On The Edge of Insanity
Member
Oh sorry, yes I forgot, Webber's gets the old parts, blah, blah, blah. The idea that a team would willingly sacrifice one of their two cars when it is the constructors, not drivers, championship points that dictate their prize money is verging on ridiculous.
The hard truth is that, charismatic though he is, Webber was never a top line driver, and his inevitable age-related decline has simply increased the gap between him and Vettel. So what we see is that average driver in a Red Bull = third/fourth/fifth place finishes, and brilliant driver in Red Bull = regular first/second/third finishes and four-consecutive championships.
I am certainly not Vettel's biggest fan, but it is fruitless to continue to deny his excellence.
I really like Webber, but he should have won the last race and had a terrible start today.
+1. I just rejoined F1 after not watching it for a few years and Grosjean is becoming a good person to root for!
+1. I just rejoined F1 after not watching it for a few years and Grosjean is becoming a good person to root for!
This is him against Schumi after 112 races
But this is before 1999 when Schumacher became unstoppable for so long. Although Schumacher had good equipment in those first races, he never had the consistently good equipment Vettel has had so far nor the reliability either.
Still, I imagine he's what Vettel will be aiming for with regards to WDCs etc.
Michael should have won 1997, 1999 and 2006.
Fair play to Vettel but this current no-testing, cost-cut racing era is simply no comparison to F1 pre-2003. 2002 ended that due to over reaction to Ferraristone dominance.
Mosley said only the hardcore would realise that they were watching cost-cut racing. It's why I have been turned off by the sport since 2009. That old era was balls to the walls F1, teams were big, budgets were stratospheric, you had qualifying engines, special race engines, each driver had 2 cars and racing was on the limit 100% of the time. The level of competitive intensity within the sport back then has not been touched since. Been watching some old videos....I miss sprint racing, 1000bhp Monza and Hockenheim engines, that awesome Mercedes engine of 2000 with the whine. What we have today is pikey racing.
The current no-testing rules simply give those with a fundamental advantage on day 1 a virtual guarantee of dominance for the rest of the season, that is further compounded by the lack of off-season testing. Byrne and Brawn broke Newey from 1999 onwards with the ability to iterate and test.
Without that ability the best design on day 1 goes on unchallenged. Remember off-season testing is even limited, so your design, if shit has very little chance of being fixed - see McLaren this season to say 2004....the MP4-18 was shit but by mid-season they got their shit together...they could TEST and Kimi was competitive from Germany onwards, winning Spa.
The current CFD tech is not good enough to replicate real-world testing results. Teams with budgets are not able to fully leverage advantages. Resource limits are shit. The tyre nonsense is also shit. It's totally contrived bullshit racing.
EDIT: This is not even touching just how shit the engines are now. it used to be that younger drivers from lower formula's would really struggle in F1 at first because they could not control the sheer power of the engine. Now F1 engines are not much different from the lower formulae, a lot of the skill is effectively lost.
I don't doubt Vettel's excellence for one minute. I think he's a brilliant driver and he will possibly retire without us seeing another one like him. I just strongly disagree with the suggestion that him and Webber are driving under identical conditions when RBR has made it patently clear who gets preferential treatment over and over again. Whose driving style matters when developing the car, who gets the newest developments first, whose feedback is actually valued when developing the car, etc.
I would also say that Webber's decline has more to do with a lack of motivation over things that have happened in F1 than age, but whatever.
Don't you find it odd that Romain started outperforming Kimi after the latter announced his move to Ferrari? Also Vettel & Webber were fighting much closer back in 2010, now the difference is huge. It's not about body parts, it's about team's focus.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
i'm on holidays and missed the race....is it worth watching later?
anyway, congrats to Vettel....the car and driver have been supreme since the mid-season break, fully deserved
i feel like this has been the worst season for a number of years though, i know Vettel dominated 2011 but i distinctly remember the races being much better for some reason
hopefully, the rest of the field steps it up next season
anyway, congrats to Vettel....the car and driver have been supreme since the mid-season break, fully deserved
i feel like this has been the worst season for a number of years though, i know Vettel dominated 2011 but i distinctly remember the races being much better for some reason
hopefully, the rest of the field steps it up next season
Psychotext
Member
In fairness, Webber said it himself, he's not the driver he once was. Also, in 2010 Vettel was 23. I have nieces and nephews around that age... they're basically clueless.
We've had some fantastic races this season. I'm guessing what you mean is that the championship has been boring.
Spa was terrible though, this is true.
RukusProvider
Banned
Great race by Vettel. His fast lap pace reminded me of Schumacher in Hungary when Brawn asked him to put in some qualifiers in a row to make up a gap. I wonder if anyone else had that thought.
Sucks for Webber but he was setup for 2nd place either way.
Kimi came up a couple of laps short.
I'm looking forward to seeing if Vettel can do 9wins in a row and 13 in a season. He had a solid chance at it.
Major credit to the RedBull team. 4 constructors championships isn't a fluke. I expect them to be fully competitive next year also.
Sucks for Webber but he was setup for 2nd place either way.
Kimi came up a couple of laps short.
I'm looking forward to seeing if Vettel can do 9wins in a row and 13 in a season. He had a solid chance at it.
Major credit to the RedBull team. 4 constructors championships isn't a fluke. I expect them to be fully competitive next year also.
I was thinking kinda the opposite in that I wish Vettel was in the position to have to do a stint like Schumacher did in Hungary. Don't get me wrong, Vettel is a great driver, but I really hope he has some competition best year. It is not even close at the moment.
Just finished my recording. Congrats to Vettel. It was expected, but still happy for him. He deserved to be champ again. Great victory celebration with the donuts and curtain call by the fans.
Really weird that Webber had to stop his car. I don't get that at all.
Hammy was thoroughly outpaced by Rosberg all week, and had a fairly anonymous race. Hopefully he can bounce back next week.
This season's drama is finally over. Time to look forward to the 2014 season, though there are still some wins to contend for. PEACE.
Really weird that Webber had to stop his car. I don't get that at all.
Hammy was thoroughly outpaced by Rosberg all week, and had a fairly anonymous race. Hopefully he can bounce back next week.
This season's drama is finally over. Time to look forward to the 2014 season, though there are still some wins to contend for. PEACE.
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
This may sound like a stupid question but I'll post it anyway.
At the beginning of the race, before it actually started and the camera cruises around the straight with all the drivers and teams, there was a shot of Alonso with some green and black Ray Bans on.
Does anyone know the name of those glasses?
I can't find them anywhere
At the beginning of the race, before it actually started and the camera cruises around the straight with all the drivers and teams, there was a shot of Alonso with some green and black Ray Bans on.
Does anyone know the name of those glasses?
I can't find them anywhere
state_vector_collapse
Member
Sure it wasn't Massa wearing these?
http://www.luxurysunglasses2013.org...een-black-green-mirror-sunglasses-p-2619.html
edit: in response to AxeMan
http://www.luxurysunglasses2013.org...een-black-green-mirror-sunglasses-p-2619.html
edit: in response to AxeMan
Awesome. That would explain why I couldn't find them, was looking for Alonso.
That's what happens when you're in and out of the room.
Thanks!
Edit - interestingly I can't find this model on the Ray Ban website
Mohonky
Member
Meaningless really. Much as I bemoan Vettel, it wasn't worth a fine but even then that's not even a slap on the wrist for a team like RBR so it's more formality than anything. Horner could pay that himself with change from his wallet.
They could be one offs. I'm reminded of what Grosjean said what his longest conversation with Kimi was, when he told Kimi he liked his shades and asked where to get them.
"They will make them for you. Just ask them."
Webber was a top driver but the last race 2010 destroyed him. It's like Massa 2008. You don't come back from something like that.
Fuck DRS indeed. I don't mind KERS but I've grown to hate DRS.
Psychotext
Member
Problem is, the aero profile is so fucked now that without DRS we'd get about 5 overtakes a race and we'd be back to the bad old days of drivers setting their car up for qualifying only and leading a trail of boredom around the track.
I'd prefer a more flexible KERS solution (Say 10 seconds of KERS available over three laps) which would enable clever drivers to get past slower cars.
Well, with that said I'd prefer them to find a way of getting cars to be able to follow each other like the old days, but I really don't think we'll ever see that level of mechanical grip again.
I'd prefer a more flexible KERS solution (Say 10 seconds of KERS available over three laps) which would enable clever drivers to get past slower cars.
Well, with that said I'd prefer them to find a way of getting cars to be able to follow each other like the old days, but I really don't think we'll ever see that level of mechanical grip again.
Business
Member
I agree the cost-cutting measures look like shit now because we eneded up having a totally dominant team anyway, but when they did work to level the field, I'd argue we had the best racing in many years. About no testing making the day 1 design the unchallanged leader for the rest of the season, I think Red Bull has shown this not to be the case at all.
Agree. I don't have a problem removing DRS, actually I'd like it, but make cars that are cars and not wings on wheels first.
Exactly. Red Bull started both 2012 and 2013 as not the outright number one team and then went on to develop that car and dominate the final third of both seasons. If this theory about having the best package from Day One wins you the championship is true, Lotus and Mercedes should've been battling it out all season. But they haven't.
Look at Sauber too. Started this year with a shit car, but have made a lot of improvements recently. Force India started this year well, but fell away in later races. As did Lotus. McLaren haven't made any real progress this year, but how much of that may be because of them changing focus onto 2014? We won't know until March.
Development is still as crucial as it ever has been. The best thing about the lack of in-season testing is that it means the richest teams can no longer spend their way back to the front during the season and have the same level of opportunity as all the other teams to develop their car over the season by only being allowed to run at races. That's so much more preferable, to me.
Mastah
Member
Prupose is set to leave Williams:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110952
Great news for Felipe and Brazilian fans. Bernie would be happy too
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110952
Great news for Felipe and Brazilian fans. Bernie would be happy too