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[Psychotext]

That wasn't the point I was making really. It's clear that Vettel was choosing to ignore the orders just like Webber has from time to time. It's really up to the drivers to keep an eye on what's going on in the race (especially if they're cruising) rather than rely on others acting in a certain way.

On your point specifically, Vettel knew exactly what he was doing, that he lies about it diminishes him considerably in my view. At least Webber had the balls to come out and say that he ignored the team rather than hiding behind a meaningless apology.

 

[Shaneus]

No point elaborating any further over what has been discussed ad nauseum already – but I'm glad there is drama in F1 again.

I am too, I just wish it didn't come at the expense of an Webber win :/

That wasn't the point I was making really. It's clear that Vettel was choosing to ignore the orders just like Webber has from time to time. It's really up to the drivers to keep an eye on what's going on in the race (especially if they're cruising) rather than rely on others acting in a certain way.

Why would Mark have had to keep an eye on his teammate when they're both racing under exactly the same plan? At that point of the race, the last thing you should be concerned with is whether your teammate is going to risk a DNF just to take a victory, especially when both drivers are so far ahead of their nearest challengers.

 

[Deadman]

If they were supposed to stop racing and turn down the engines after the last pitstop then when exactly did webber do this? He came out of the pits side by side with vettel and the gap was less than a second constantly until vettel got ahead. Did he turn his engine down during the fight? Did he do it before the last stop even though that doesnt make sense?

 

[PdotMichael]

If they were supposed to stop racing and turn down the engines after the last pitstop then when exactly did webber do this? He came out of the pits side by side with vettel and the gap was less than a second constantly until vettel got ahead. Did he turn his engine down during the fight? Did he do it before the last stop even though that doesnt make sense?

The gap was <1s between Webber and Vettel after the pitstop. And the lap times were not that off - outside of the fact that Vettel was faster because he had the soft tyres.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/24/2013-malaysian-grand-prix-lap-times-fastest-laps/
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/24/2013-malaysian-grand-prix-lap-charts/

 

[Shaneus]

Pretty sure it was afterwards, but not sure at exactly which stage. I'll have a poke around the F1 timing app and see if there's a clear point at which his times took a dive but Vettel's didn't.

Edit: From those charts, Webber was consistently slower on all laps bar a few, by the same margin... whereas prior to that, they were very much dead-even. Seems highly likely that it was as soon as Webber left the pits that he was on consv. mode.

 

[Deadman]

On the 2nd lap after the pitstop webber sets the fastest 1st sector of the race, then on the 3rd lap vettel gets past

The gap was <1s between Webber and Vettel after the pitstop. And the lap times were not that off - outside of the fact that Vettel was faster because he had the soft tyres.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/24/2013-malaysian-grand-prix-lap-times-fastest-laps/
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/24/2013-malaysian-grand-prix-lap-charts/

Yeah from the "gap between each driver" chart it shows the gap between webber and vettel growing just before the last stop, so he probably didnt turn his engine down before it either. Unless vettel had also turned his town during that phase.

 

[Omiee]

If they were supposed to stop racing and turn down the engines after the last pitstop then when exactly did webber do this? He came out of the pits side by side with vettel and the gap was less than a second constantly until vettel got ahead. Did he turn his engine down during the fight? Did he do it before the last stop even though that doesnt make sense?

I was about to make this point. I think Webber said something about rbr hating à race plan before the start of the race

 

[Zozobra]

Entertaining race today, that's all I gotta say.

I just bought tickets for the Japanese GP. I've never even been outside of North America before, very excited!

 

[RomanticHeroX]

I think it's pretty common for all the teams to have their drivers finish in the order they're in after the last stops. I would assume that the fight as Webber was leaving was supposed to be the last opportunity Vettel had, and once that settled out and Webber was comfortably ahead that's when they were supposed to coast.

 

[Big Takeover]

Bikes dont have radio communications. Only pit boards.

Radio comms was trialed back in 2004 but it never caught on.

That's why I said they have it right

It was funny when Kimi told his team to zip it last year, but it's indicative of the state of the sport. Just let the drivers fucking drive, and manage their own pace. If they drive the tires off them, bitch them out after the race. Clearly whatever fuel and tires they used up battling for the lead never came close to putting the 1-2 finish in jeopardy, so what's the problem? If the teams are going to hurt the spectacle by racing to the last pitstop and then forcing the drivers to cruise, they need to be cut from the picture as much as possible. Sure, the same arrangement could be made before the race, but "wtf, multi 21" was a dreadful way to end the weekend. It's just bogus.

 

[Dead Man]

In better news, Dead Man Racing up 44 places. 44 bitches!! Still only 36th though.

 

[Big Takeover]

+15, 67th :/

Who's GujoR? +50 places, ya stud!

 

[dubc35]

Entertaining race today, that's all I gotta say.

I just bought tickets for the Japanese GP. I've never even been outside of North America before, very excited!

Congrats! Super jealous; take and share pics in here.

 

[Dead Man]

+15, 67th :/

Who's GujoR? +50 places, ya stud!

Yeah, some big jumps. I think I like that about this, you don't get ruined by having a bad race since each race resets instead of carrying over money. It's not as in depth obviously, but it's nice to have something a bit less deep this season I think.

Entertaining race today, that's all I gotta say.

I just bought tickets for the Japanese GP. I've never even been outside of North America before, very excited!

That is a great way to start your intercontinental travel experience, for sure.

 

[Psychotext]

I think it's pretty common for all the teams to have their drivers finish in the order they're in after the last stops.

Of course, the problem in this particular case was that they were side by side when Webber came out. All largely irrelevant though, as he was obviously told to maintain a gap.

 

[DancingCactus77]

SEBASTARD.

 

[Shaneus]

Oh you have to be fucking kidding me. Predictor is blocked at work :/

Anyone know where La Barbila Gloriosa is on the ladder? I don't think it'll be in the top 20... or 50 :/

SEBASTARD.

Perfect. Thank you.

 

[gutterboy44]

Everyone's beloved overrated mate Webber once again proving that he is nothing special and probably not even worth the rant I am about to type. Whinge about team orders when they favor someone else then throw a tantrum about not having them followed when they are for once in his favor.Boo hoo. Don't go backwards at the start of 90% of your races and perhaps a team ordered win being taken away from you wouldn't be such a precious gem.

It is pretty rich seeing how many people are quick to say, "unfair!" who probably spit blood for days back when it was only Ferrari who were good enough to have to bother with team orders. Now all of a sudden team orders are sacred. Let's just all admit the obvious here. When team orders favor your guy, they are fine. When they don't, they are politics at their worst.

Vettel is so undoubtedly faster than Webber. What does he need, 3 more championships in the same car to prove it? I think Vettel is a snide cunt but getting your panties in a bundle over Webber being hard done by team order drama is pretty funny. No one has shown how much they despise team orders more than Webber. Reap what you sow. The biggest threat to Webber's career has always been Mark Webber and his inconsistency. His starts are some of the worst on the grid. Moreover he single handedly threw away his one shot at the championship in Korea with no one to blame but himself. Yet he continues to cry about team favorites at Red Bull year after year of losing to the German finger blaster. Shit or get off the energy drink pot. If Webber doesn't want to be a #2, he should probably stop circling the bowl like a stubborn turd. I don't know how many more chances he needs to be given in "the best car on the grid" (only when Vettel wins with it apparently) to prove that he isn't anything other than average?

PS- Alonso and Ferrari are the dumbest of all. What a joke. However, Hamilton is already 20x more fun and likable this season. Glad he left McLaren.

 

[Dead Man]

Oh you have to be fucking kidding me. Predictor is blocked at work :/

Anyone know where La Barbila Gloriosa is on the ladder? I don't think it'll be in the top 20... or 50 :/


Perfect. Thank you.

86 Down 7.

 

[Psychotext]

Just looking at the gaps at the end it went something like this:

40: 4.1s
41: 4.6s
42: 4.1s
43: 3.5s (Vettel pits)
44: 20.2s (Webber pits) becoming 0.3s as he exits pits
45: 0.5s
46: 0.1s
47: -0.2s (Vettel ahead)
48: -0.8s
49: -2.7s

Looks like the race was basically won on Webber's in lap. I wonder if Webber had just gone a lap too far on the tyres (he had changed them earlier than Vettel on the previous stint).

 

[AcridMeat]

Fucking ouch. If it wasn't for Hamilton I'd be dead last.

Just noticed my placeholder of Alonso for positions gained was never changed. :/

 

[Shaneus]

Just looking at the gaps at the end it went something like this:

40: 4.1s
41: 4.6s
42: 4.1s
43: 3.5s (Vettel pits)
44: 20.2s (Webber pits) becoming 0.3s as he exits pits
45: 0.5s
46: 0.1s
47: -0.2s (Vettel ahead)
48: -0.8s
49: -2.7s

Looks like the race was basically won on Webber's in lap. I wonder if Webber had just gone a lap too far on the tyres (he had changed them earlier than Vettel on the previous stint).

From what I can gather, it was more his out lap... from the F1 timing app:
vet in: 1:41.247
web in: 1:42.365
vet out: 1:55.174
web out: 1:57.352

Probably due to either the harder tyres having less grip when fresh, or Webber had pulled back on his performance config on his out lap. Or both.

 

[ReadingRambo]

That fucking race, man. I used to put up with Vettel's prissiness because he's a damn good driver. I can't stomach him after this.

 

[Deadman]

Well webbers out lap started with them fighting side by side for the whole first sector, that can account for it being slower.

Tbh after looking at the gap between them and the way they were racing I don't believe either of them went to any kind of lower setting until the fight was over. They both went for it completely. It makes no sense to me that they would go to a lower setting either whilst side by side or when they were within a second of each other for 2/3 laps.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

It makes no sense to me that they would go to a lower setting either whilst side by side or when they were within a second of each other for 2/3 laps.

Nico and Hamilton were less than a second apart for multiple laps but they were coasting to the finish because it was decided that their fight was over. That's how it's supposed to work.

 

[Psychotext]

Well webbers out lap started with them fighting side by side for the whole first sector, that can account for it being slower.

Aye, they were side by side from the second Webber left the pits.

That's how it's supposed to work.

The difference apparently is that Nico and Hamilton don't hate each other.

That said, do that to Nico a few more times and he might not react so well.

 

[Dead Man]

Nico and Hamilton were less than a second apart for multiple laps but they were coasting to the finish because it was decided that their fight was over. That's how it's supposed to work.

Pretty much.

 

[Sleeplessnights]

Reading the other thread about F1 in OT I am hit with this very strange idea that F1 is one of the very few sports that people feel pride for keeping up with the sport for a long period of time and are knowledgeable about it. There's a very strange sense of "Shut up you don't know what I know" going around that thread and here too.

Many are scattering trying to prove that they know their F1 history and technology, even some that probably haven't watched race in a while.

Just my opinion.

 

[RukusProvider]

Everyone's beloved overrated mate Webber once again proving that he is nothing special and probably not even worth the rant I am about to type. Whinge about team orders when they favor someone else then throw a tantrum about not having them followed when they are for once in his favor.Boo hoo. Don't go backwards at the start of 90% of your races and perhaps a team ordered win being taken away from you wouldn't be such a precious gem.

It is pretty rich seeing how many people are quick to say, "unfair!" who probably spit blood for days back when it was only Ferrari who were good enough to have to bother with team orders. Now all of a sudden team orders are sacred. Let's just all admit the obvious here. When team orders favor your guy, they are fine. When they don't, they are politics at their worst.

Vettel is so undoubtedly faster than Webber. What does he need, 3 more championships in the same car to prove it? I think Vettel is a snide cunt but getting your panties in a bundle over Webber being hard done by team order drama is pretty funny. No one has shown how much they despise team orders more than Webber. Reap what you sow. The biggest threat to Webber's career has always been Mark Webber and his inconsistency. His starts are some of the worst on the grid. Moreover he single handedly threw away his one shot at the championship in Korea with no one to blame but himself. Yet he continues to cry about team favorites at Red Bull year after year of losing to the German finger blaster. Shit or get off the energy drink pot. If Webber doesn't want to be a #2, he should probably stop circling the bowl like a stubborn turd. I don't know how many more chances he needs to be given in "the best car on the grid" (only when Vettel wins with it apparently) to prove that he isn't anything other than average?

PS- Alonso and Ferrari are the dumbest of all. What a joke. However, Hamilton is already 20x more fun and likable this season. Glad he left McLaren.

Nicely said.

Btw, if other teams thought of webber as a championship winning driver, he'd have offers accordingly. There's a reason he sticks it out at rbr. They at least give him a fighting chance.

 

[Shaneus]

Bored at work. Might be funny, might not be. I dunno.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

That was a pathetic attempt at flipping the bird by Webber, like driving Vettel is on another level

Middle finger compilation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBMPX-i1TnI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBMPX-i1TnI - lol, Walker was one smooth operator

 

[Hammer24]

I´m not exactly sure which topics have already been covered (sorry guys, I got no time to read the last 10+ pages :-(), but here are some small things from me:
- Yesterday was defo Ross Brawns last straw. Mercedes will not accept this, his head will roll.
- Webber middle finger
- FI uses new tyre nuts this year, and they showed no problems in testing and Australia. But here the heat destroyed them. They couldn´t simply exchange them for the old ones, as the tyre nuts are one system with the wheel.
- MCL wants to get a new gear box in BUT car, thats why they retired him.
- now everyone knows what "Multi21" means, lol
Any questions, shoot.

 

[Hackbert]

 

[Dead Man]

I´m not exactly sure which topics have already been covered (sorry guys, I got no time to read the last 10+ pages :-(), but here are some small things from me:
- Yesterday was defo Ross Brawns last straw. Mercedes will not accept this, his head will roll.
- Webber middle finger
- FI uses new tyre nuts this year, and they showed no problems in testing and Australia. But here the heat destroyed them. They couldn´t simply exchange them for the old ones, as the tyre nuts are one system with the wheel.
- MCL wants to get a new gear box in BUT car, thats why they retired him.
- now everyone knows what "Multi21" means, lol
Any questions, shoot.

Cheeky.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I'm not a fan of Vettel either, but it's clear Webber is where he is because of the car. Never rate him as a driver, lacks consistency.

 

[Hammer24]

VET could only pull this stunt, as he knows for a fact that there will be no ramifications whatsoever for him. His schumification continues, he´ll get the titles, and the team will provide him with another water bearer if need be. He still hasn´t extended his contract with RBR, so they´ll kiss his ass and kindly ask for more...

 

[Psychotext]

VET could only pull this stunt, as he knows for a fact that there will be no ramifications whatsoever for him.

You do realise we've been talking about Webber doing exactly the same thing right? The only real differences are that he didn't lie about it, and that he didn't make it past Vettel.

He revealed the team had first instructed him to hold position &#8220;four or five laps&#8221; before the end.

He said: &#8220;I ignored the team and I was battling to the end.&#8221;

 

[Hammer24]

You do realise we've been talking about Webber doing exactly the same thing right?

Um, no? Where? When? Sorry.

 

[Psychotext]

At numerous points over the last few pages. This is about the incident, Silverstone 2011: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/07/10/webber-red-bulls-order-pass-vettel/

Needless to say the reaction was very different on the whole.

 

[Hammer24]

At numerous points over the last few pages. This is about the incident, Silverstone 2011: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/07/10/webber-red-bulls-order-pass-vettel/

Needless to say the reaction was very different on the whole.

Thanks.
Yes, the reaction was different. But it doesn´t change what I said. Maybe I just don´t get what you mean?

 

[Psychotext]

You suggested that only Vettel could get away with it. Webber did it and a few weeks later he had a shiny new contract. Seems both can get away with it just fine, and that needs to change.

 

[DBT85]

I think it was highlighted even more by the contrast in how Mark & Seb and Lewis & Nico handled all of it.

In the race Nico asked to be allowed to drive past, is told no, asks a few more times, is told no. Doesn't try (are we assuming he was told no after or before they swapped on that one lap?). After the race Lewis is sheepish, says on the podium to the crowd that Nico should be standing there, Nico says he's cool with it, it works both ways. It seems the campers are happy enough.

On the flip side you have Seb on the podium like nothings happened despite the multi 21 conversation 30 seconds earlier, Mark doing his best not to lamp Seb with his trophy, Seb claiming that it was an accident, Horner saying it was deliberate and that there was no point asking him to give it back as he wouldn't have done it.

We come out of it with people still wondering what reason Nico wasn't allowed past Lewis, including both drivers, but no real appearance of fracture or tension, they even cuddled before being weighed in. RB on the other hand looks ripe to explode and the press will only add fuel to it over the next 3 weeks.

Incredible what a difference one decision like that can make. Two drivers were given an instruction and one obeyed it and one didn't.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

Bravo, this is great. lol

 

[PdotMichael]

Incredible what a difference one decision like that can make. Two drivers were given an instruction and one obeyed it and one didn't.

Well, the difference is more that Vettel won three championships, he has obviously different claims than Rosberg.
Just look at all the drama about Alonso in his McLaren year.

 

[Hammer24]

You suggested that only Vettel could get away with it.

Sorry, no. I explained why I think VET can get away with it, I said nothing about WEB.

(are we assuming he was told no after or before they swapped on that one lap?)

Before. The official language is "we alternated DRS zones to improve our lap times".

It seems the campers are happy enough.

No, they aren´t. But they know, that there will be something done about it.

 

[Mogwai]

I'm pretty sure that the extra points will come handy for Vettel later in the championship. However, I think that Red Bull really wanted a victory for Webber just to give him some credit for his work. I can really empathize with Webber, he must feel so gutted right now. Vettel seems like the unruly little brother that just says "ME WANT!".

But one thing for sure is that the relationship between Vettel and Webber went from 'quite bad' to 'really bad' now.

 

[Psychotext]

Sorry, no. I explained why I think VET can get away with it, I said nothing about WEB.

"VET could only pull this stunt"

Automatically implying that Webber couldn't or wouldn't. Is English not your first language?

 

[Lach]

"VET could only pull this stunt"

Automatically implying that Webber couldn't or wouldn't. Is English not your first language?

'VET could only pull this stunt' =/= 'Only VET could pull this stunt'

'VET could only pull this stunt [, reasoning]' = 'Only because [reasoning,] VET could pull this stunt'

Semantics I know but it makes all the difference...There might be an important coma missing but I'm not sure...

 

[Psychotext]

Yeah, I can't agree with that. No matter though - we'll go with it.

 

[Dead Man]

Yeah, I can't agree with that. No matter though - we'll go with it.

VET could only pull this stunt because he knows for a fact that there will be no ramifications whatsoever for him.

Fixed for clarity.