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[pants]

Dammit pants, you were suppose to drop way down the league

Still catching you by 2 places

Just because you are faster than me does not mean I'm letting you past :smug:

 

[Risgroo]

Jenson's Grip is in 66th at the moment, AWESOME!

 

[Yoritomo]

It *is*. Metaphorically speaking.

About the "dirty public toilet stall".


You'd have overtaken a teammate knowing he was using lower settings? You're a bit of a cunt too, then.

(Don't take that personally, just saying that it was a dick move to "fight" with him when obviously he's on a slower setting. You don't just magically go slower than your teammate toward the end of a race for no reason)


I don't think so. And Webber was never holding him up, from memory. I think they were trading 1/100s back and forth, but never enough to justify a request for them to move over.
Those comments just make Vettel look even worse after this.


It's like the 2010 Silverstone wing all over again... except Mark isn't coming away with a win :/ Like I've said earlier, I hope the vitriol from the general public and the press gets to Vettel. He's shown that he hasn't been able to handle it all that well and unless he goes on a 100% media blackout, he'll know exactly what everyone thinks. Hoping that there are some crafty banners at the Chinese GP

Mark didn't exactly help out in Brazil last year.

This wasn't the start of something this is the continuation of something that's been happening since they were teammates.

I love it because it continues to crush Australian dreams and at least justifies the booing when Vettel's on the podium in Australia

 

[Dead Man]

Mark didn't exactly help out in Brazil last year.

This wasn't the start of something this is the continuation of something that's been happening since they were teammates.

I love it because it continues to crush Australian dreams and at least justifies the booing when Vettel's on the podium in Australia

Yeah, awesome :/

Edit: Brazil last year they were again free to race, it's how it has always been, same as yesterday. UNTIL the last pits stop if they are running next to each other.

 

[Yoritomo]

Yeah, awesome :/

Edit: Brazil last year they were again free to race, it's how it has always been, same as yesterday. UNTIL the last pits stop if they are running next to each other.

Would mark have listened if the situation was reversed? Mark would have continued to fight as he has in the past and everyone would have called him a hero. Vettel has been a heel for a long time now. Nothing he does apart from stopping his car to help someone in a bad accident will ever change that.

Hell part of me thinks outbraking and stuffing Alonso at the beginning was somewhat intentional.

 

[Dead Man]

Would mark have listened if the situation was reversed? Mark would have continued to fight as he has in the past and everyone would have called him a hero. Vettel has been a heel for a long time now. Nothing he does apart from stopping his car to help someone in a bad accident will ever change that.

Hell part of me thinks outbraking and stuffing Alonso at the beginning was somewhat intentional.

What? He failed to do it once (well, failed to fail to do it I guess) and that's it. He owned up to it after as well. Other than that he has obeyed team orders to hold position at all times unless you know of another incident.

 

[Psychotext]

Yeah, awesome :/

Edit: Brazil last year they were again free to race, it's how it has always been, same as yesterday. UNTIL the last pits stop if they are running next to each other.

In Silverstone Webber pushed Vettel right to the line, despite being told to hold position. They're both as bad each other and only a decent threat from the team is going to do anything about it.

I ignored the team and I was battling to the end.

For what it's worth, IMO he was right to ignore them then, and Vettel was right to ignore them now. Not right for the team, but right for the drivers.

 

[cmr-94]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xppm9tzXc8&feature=youtu.be

Some great stuff on the radio channel

20.00 - Hulk does not sound happy with the car at all

 

[DBT85]

Hamilton is doing a column with the BBC, the important bit for me is him talking about his wheel

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21885280

The first time I sat in the cockpit I thought the steering wheel was way too complex.
There were 26 switches and buttons, compared to my previous steering wheel, which might have had about 10.

I was thinking: "Jeez, when am I ever going to get on top of all this?"
And then my next question was: "What do I need out of all the stuff you're providing me with, and what can I do without?"

I still want to be able to change my car settings - but because I'm coming to a new team I need to quickly learn and I want to have just what I need and not extra stuff that I will only need once in a blue moon.

When I'm driving, the fewer distractions there are, the better it is to focus on the job in hand.

If the engineers could, they'd give you 40 buttons, but when you're driving it's not that easy to use them all, so it's better to have the ones you really need.

The key thing is to make it simpler without getting rid of stuff that I might need to make the car go quicker.
I'm also thinking about trying to lose weight from the car - the fewer buttons we have on the steering wheel, the less weight we have on it, and we can put it in other places.

So, instead of tons of different buttons, we now have default switches - on one button you can access three or four different settings.

In terms of switches and dials, I have taken off three from the back, two off the front, and removed one of the rotary dials.

Instead of a brake-bias button, we now have a red switch with 'X' on it, and all I have to do is press it and see what my brake bias is. And I have three different settings rather than six or seven. The clutch bite-point is on the same button.

In total, that might be 100g, which doesn't sound like much, but it all counts in an F1 car.

Even then, the current steering wheel we have is still too complicated for my taste, so I am working on designing a new one, which we will have next year.

 

[RukusProvider]

Did you see the times? He was dropping almost a whole second a lap to Vettel for each lap afterwards. That's why Vettel won by four seconds and not a few hundredths.

Your enjoyment of F1 would be a lot more if you simple accepted a few things:

1. Vettel is the faster driver
2. Webber has defiantly mentioned numerous times in the past that he has NO intention of helping Vettel
3. Webber came out of the pits in toe to toe action
4. There's no way Webber didn't tune his engine back to race mode when he realized Vettel is going to attack. Believing otherwise is like living in a Disney fairytale
5. Webber's history against vettel isn't exactly peachy

The worst part is Vettel's apology. He should simply have said he's a racing driver out to win and that he took the chance as presented.

Had the roles been reversed this forum and especially you would be running around giving virtual hi fives about how badass Webber is for not bending over the team and their bias towards Vettel.

What happened today was RACING.

 

[Omiee]

Your enjoyment of F1 would be a lot more if you simple accepted a few things:

1. Vettel is the faster driver
2. Webber has defiantly mentioned numerous times in the past that he has NO intention of helping Vettel
3. Webber came out of the pits in toe to toe action
4. There's no way Webber didn't tune his engine back to race mode when he realized Vettel is going to attack. Believing otherwise is like living in a Disney fairytale
5. Webber's history against vettel isn't exactly peachy

The worst part is Vettel's apology. He should simply have said he's a racing driver out to win and that he took the chance as presented.

Had the roles been reversed this forum and especially you would be running around giving virtual hi fives about how badass Webber is for not bending over the team and their bias towards Vettel.

What happened today was RACING.

Could not have summed it up better! +1

 

[Ark]

You guys are missing the point, Red Bull can't control their drivers.

 

[Psychotext]

Like I said on the last page, I think it's going to take them threatening to replace the next one to disobey with a reserve driver for a single race. See if you're willing to throw away a potential championship for the sake of disobeying.

One hell of a bluff (or not)... but I think they'd both sit up and take notice.

 

[kharma45]

Like I said on the last page, I think it's going to take them threatening to replace the next one to disobey with a reserve driver for a single race. See if you're willing to throw away a potential championship for the sake of disobeying.

One hell of a bluff (or not)... but I think they'd both sit up and take notice.

Yeah that's the only way I could see RBR making them enforceable unless they make it a contractual obligation for the drivers like how Massa has it in his contract.

 

[Shaneus]

Careful now, wouldn't want some actual discussion going on in here.

To be fair I haven't read anything in here since page 48. I was out last night and I just finished watching the race. I won't bother posting my opinions because I'm just going to assume someone else has already covered what I wanted to say

Come on, I don't think anyone's *that* clueless.

 

[ramparter]

I got 40! points on gppredictor I found spot on Lewis, Grosjean and Hulk and I just had Massa in front of Rosberg. Funny considering it looked a lost case at the start having Alonso as a winner and Kimi second.

 

[RukusProvider]

Like I said on the last page, I think it's going to take them threatening to replace the next one to disobey with a reserve driver for a single race. See if you're willing to throw away a potential championship for the sake of disobeying.

One hell of a bluff (or not)... but I think they'd both sit up and take notice.

It's going to take them either designating Webber as #2 or getting a proper #2 driver.

You can't have two #1 drivers and don't expect fireworks regardless of pep talks and contracts. As long as both have equal footing, both will end up in these situations and they worry about it afterwards.

 

[PdotMichael]

Like I said on the last page, I think it's going to take them threatening to replace the next one to disobey with a reserve driver for a single race. See if you're willing to throw away a potential championship for the sake of disobeying.

One hell of a bluff (or not)... but I think they'd both sit up and take notice.

I don't think a team would risk two championships for such a move, though.

Red Bull has the problem that both drivers have a history of disobeying team orders. Vettel's fetish for the fastest laps or Webber in Silverstone or Singapore.

Either you let them race until the last lap or you need a number 1 and 2. Ferrari would never have the problems of Red Bull or Mercedes because we all know that Alonso is the boss and Massa just a domestique.

 

[Dead Man]

Your enjoyment of F1 would be a lot more if you simple accepted a few things:

1. Vettel is the faster driver
2. Webber has defiantly mentioned numerous times in the past that he has NO intention of helping Vettel
3. Webber came out of the pits in toe to toe action
4. There's no way Webber didn't tune his engine back to race mode when he realized Vettel is going to attack. Believing otherwise is like living in a Disney fairytale
5. Webber's history against vettel isn't exactly peachy

The worst part is Vettel's apology. He should simply have said he's a racing driver out to win and that he took the chance as presented.

Had the roles been reversed this forum and especially you would be running around giving virtual hi fives about how badass Webber is for not bending over the team and their bias towards Vettel.

What happened today was RACING.

I'm calling bullshit on the bold. And yes, he probably turned up his engine, after Seb had already started to attack and had momentum.

In Silverstone Webber pushed Vettel right to the line, despite being told to hold position. They're both as bad each other and only a decent threat from the team is going to do anything about it.



For what it's worth, IMO he was right to ignore them then, and Vettel was right to ignore them now. Not right for the team, but right for the drivers.

Yes, I posted about Silvestone. I think he was wrong then, and Seb is wrong now. I think Seb also has a much more worrisome attitude, but that's my opinion, and probably Istanbuls opinion too It is a team sport, the drivers are employed by a team. They are the most visible part of the team, but if the team gives them less than 100% they don't get to win their races.

I don't think a team would risk two championships for such a move, though.

Red Bull has the problem that both drivers have a history of disobeying team orders. Vettel's fetish for the fastest laps or Webber in Silverstone or Singapore.

Either you let them race until the last lap or you need a number 1 and 2. Ferrari would never have the problems of Red Bull or Mercedes because we all know that Alonso is the boss and Massa just a domestique.

You don't need a 1 and 2 driver, Rosberg showed how it is done. You need drivers that will be sensible and stick to team convention and strategy. That does not mean they have to favour one driver or the other.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Webber was properly angry after the chequered flag.

 

[Big Takeover]

They need to ban two-way radio communications in F1. Bikes have it right.

 

[PdotMichael]

I'm calling bullshit on the bold.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29206061&postcount=10689

after Silverstone 2011

You don't need a 1 and 2 driver, Rosberg showed how it is done. You need drivers that will be sensible and stick to team convention and strategy. That does not mean they have to favour one driver or the other.

We need to wait the next races but that was pretty much the first step in turning Rosberg into a number 2.

 

[Psychotext]

And yes, he probably turned up his engine, after Seb had already started to attack and had momentum.

It took Vettel two laps to get past him after the pitstop, plenty of time to sort himself out.

 

[Dead Man]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29206061&postcount=10689

after Silverstone 2011



We need to wait the next races but that was pretty much the first step in turning Rosberg into a number 2.

One poster? And then a maybe? Pfft, come back to me in 3 races time. You still don't need a number 1 and number 2, you just need drivers that will stick to team rules and agreements.

It took Vettel two laps to get past him after the pitstop, plenty of time to sort himself out.

I missed that part of the race, too busy working. Didn't know it took that long.

 

[Psychotext]

Webber was properly angry after the chequered flag.

Would have been hilarious if he'd hit him.

 

[RukusProvider]

One poster? And then a maybe? Pfft, come back to me in 3 races time. You still don't need a number 1 and number 2, you just need drivers that will stick to team rules and agreements.



I missed that part of the race, too busy working. Didn't know it took that long.

So you keep commenting on a part of the race you didn't see? amazing...

 

[Dead Man]

So you keep commenting on a part of the race you didn't see? amazing...

I can read, maybe you should try it. If I don't know something, I say so. I don't think I have claimed any knowledge that requires having seen that part of the race. Welcome to prove me wrong though.

 

[Psychotext]

Just browsing the old thread, I quite like Foliorum Viridum's take on it...

Er he's a racing driver. He had the pace. It's not his place to worry about a few points for the team.

 

[PdotMichael]

One poster? And then a maybe? Pfft, come back to me in 3 races time. You still don't need a number 1 and number 2, you just need drivers that will stick to team rules and agreements.

Read some of the comments in that thread.

The comments are maybe not that extrem because Webber couldn't overtake Vettel but pretty much all called the team order bullshit.

 

[Dead Man]

Read some of the comments in that thread.

The comments are maybe not that extrem because Webber couldn't overtake Vettel but pretty much all called the team order bullshit.

I don't remember my response. But I will say I think I remember opinion on GAF being very much divided, not all Yeah Webber.

 

[Omiee]

For once im not the one everybody is arguing with about something vettel related lol.

Anyhow im glad about the 1 2 for redbull. This is one of those 1 in 10 races webber actually is a threat to vettel. I dont see him possing a threat in the upcoming races.

Team orders should be respected since they are there. But im for a ban on team orders.

IF i was in the same situation as vettel i probably would have done the same since it was 14 laps to the flag. Way to early for team orders.

I don't remember my response. But I will say I think I remember opinion on GAF being very much divided, not all Yeah Webber.

You should really read the thread. A lot of were loving webber because he kept on pushing. And a lot of people hated RBR for issuing team orders.

 

[Psychotext]

I've just read a bunch of pages and it's virtually all "fuck Red Bull / Vettel" and "poor Webber". Amusingly there's a lot of people there saying they'd never use team orders on Vettel.

Ironically it was only for 2nd / 3rd places too.

 

[PdotMichael]

I don't remember my response. But I will say I think I remember opinion on GAF being very much divided, not all Yeah Webber.

Well, that's the reason I quoted the guy who has a negative opinion about Vettel and his move against Webber, although he loved the same thing two years ago.

 

[Dibbz]

Ah man poor Webber. Got fucked over bad. Someone summed it up well on Sky when they said Seb seems like the kinda guy that will return the favour once he's won the championship.

I always liked Vettel mainly because people said he couldn't drive but he clearly could, now though I want Webber to smash him.

 

[Dead Man]

For once im not the one everybody is arguing with about something vettel related lol.

Anyhow im glad about the 1 2 for redbull. This is one of those 1 in 10 races webber actually is a threat to vettel. I dont see him possing a threat in the upcoming races.

Team orders should be respected since they are there. But im for a ban on team orders.

IF i was in the same situation as vettel i probably would have done the same since it was 14 laps to the flag. Way to early for team orders.

But it wasn't team orders in the sense of favouring one driver over another. Does the difference not matter? I am against telling a driver to pull over for another driver, but telling drivers to hold station so they don't crash into each other is far from that situation to me. Or should teams have no say in what their drivers do in the teams cars?

 

[Mobius 1]

No point elaborating any further over what has been discussed ad nauseum already – but I'm glad there is drama in F1 again.

 

[dubc35]

just watched the race

Stay classy Vettel.

wtf @ ALO for not pitting

ROFL @ HAM pitting in McL's pit

 

[jey_16]

Hopefully Webber passes vettel in Brazil before he retires to allow Alonso to win the championship! That would be a nice bit of revenge

 

[Klocker]

just watched the race

Stay classy Vettel.

wtf @ ALO for not pitting

ROFL @ HAM pitting in McL's pit

yes!


the thing about Vettel was he does not come across as a grinding competitor who wants to win, he comes across as a spoiled twat who expects to have his team grant him the win if he's close over Webber

 

[Psychotext]

he comes across as a spoiled twat who expects to have his team grant him the win if he's close

One day he'll make a fantastic Ferrari driver.

 

[moojito]

I wonder if the possible effect on the red bull brand is responsible in part for Vettel's immediate realisation of the errors of his ways. Maybe I've just been watching too much nascar recently.

 

[SunhiLegend]

I have no doubt in my mind had Red Bull not told both drivers to basically cruise to the end, Webber would have kept a large enough gap to Vettel and would not have fallen within DRS range, weren't the lap times of the two pretty much even throughout the race up until that point? Vettel was just being a sneaky cunt as he knew Webber was cruising and decided to attack.

 

[Psychotext]

It's not like Webber wouldn't have known the gap though. Every lap he'd see it on his pit board if nothing else.

Unless Vettel managed to do 5 seconds in a single lap, but that seems unlikely.

 

[kharma45]

One day he'll make a fantastic Ferrari driver.

Please no

 

[Jezbollah]

They need to ban two-way radio communications in F1. Bikes have it right.

Bikes dont have radio communications. Only pit boards.

Radio comms was trialed back in 2004 but it never caught on.

 

[Dead Man]

It's not like Webber wouldn't have known the gap though. Every lap he'd see it on his pit board if nothing else.

Unless Vettel managed to do 5 seconds in a single lap, but that seems unlikely.

Apparently I'm not able to comment, but if the team was telling him about holding position, it seems he was just trusting that Vettel would do as he was told.

 

[Psychotext]

That would make him a bit of a mug given what he did to Vettel in the same circumstances... but who knows.

Even so, every lap, pit board with +X.XX written on it. He'd know.

Edit - Anyone have the actual lap times / gaps? I can't find it online and I'm quite interested in knowing just exactly how much Vettel caught up over what sort of period. It's clear he put the hammer down as soon as he pitted.

 

[criesofthepast]

Dropped 46 places in GAF league from 13th to 59th lol only 12 points this week. Fucking brutal.

I think that is the most places dropped out of the entire league.

 

[PdotMichael]

I would say it's more a PR disaster than a real racing thing.

Vettel is one of the guy who wants to be the best in everything with all the good and bad things. And Webber should not act that he never did the same things in the past.

 

[SunhiLegend]

That would make him a bit of a mug given what he did to Vettel in the same circumstances... but who knows.

Even so, every lap, pit board with +X.XX written on it. He'd know.

Edit - Anyone have the actual lap times / gaps? I can't find it online and I'm quite interested in knowing just exactly how much Vettel caught up over what sort of period. It's clear he put the hammer down as soon as he pitted.

I'm pretty sure Webber said that Vettel should have known the situation by looking at the lap times and that he was lapping 80% or 8 tenth slower, not sure which one it was, can't find the interview, on mobile but I think it was said during the sky post coverage.