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The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT| Who Will Win? Nobody Nose

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Dead Man

Member
My point was that they have no control over it. And homologation rules are the same for everyone.

You are continuing to miss the point by some distance. You wouldn't bitch about an ECU because they are the same for everyone. Engines are not. Your example was stupid, sorry. If you want to find another part of the car that is dramatically performance changing, not the same for all teams, and unable to be improved mid season, by all means feel free.
 

kiyomi

Member
You are continuing to miss the point by some distance. You wouldn't bitch about an ECU because they are the same for everyone. Engines are not. Your example was stupid, sorry. If you want to find another part of the car that is dramatically performance changing, not the same for all teams, and unable to be improved mid season, by all means feel free.

Okay, it was a poor example perhaps, but my point was that in both cases the rules are there for everyone. Everyone's engines are going to be locked down and it's not just a problem for Renault.

I'm not going to carry on with this discussion but Newey's grievances with the rules appear on the outside to be solely regarding his team's choice of engine partner. They're unhappy they've got the short end of the stick, that's all there is to it.
 

Ark

Member
There is no solution because it would go against in-season cost cutting. I was just saying that I thought Newey's Renault complaints were justified. The other Renault-powered teams can complain too, but it carries a lot more weight when the works team is complaining in the media.
 

DBT85

Member
Yes, V6 are just introduced in the sport, it's ridiculous that the manufacturers can't work on them.

They've had years to work on them. Some of them did their job, some didn't. They can work on them to improve reliability and at the end of the season they can redesign pretty much the entire thing.

In season upgrades would cost a fortune that the smaller teams cannot afford to support, but all engines have to be the same when supplied to multiple teams.
 

Deadman

Member
I do wonder sometimes whether restricting engine development even works as a cost reduction mechanism. Why wouldnt they just take all the money they used to spend on engines and spend it on aero? I suspect they did/do.
 

DBT85

Member
Because the amount of time and work they can do on aero is limited.

30 hours in the wind tunnel with 60% models, or 30 teraflops of CFD per week. Or a mix of the two.


Windtunnel time is defined as the amount of hours the fans are turned on above a certain speed, also known as wind-on time. CFD usage is the amount of teraflops used in processing a model.

The wind-on time used for this formula is the average wind-on hours per week, while CFD processing is the total for the full eight week period.

Each measure (wind-on time/teraflop) is used as a single unit and the cap sits at 30 units in the testing period.

So a team could use up to 30 hours per week of wind-on time and no CFD processing, or 30 teraflop of CFD and no windtunnel or a combination of both.

Under the RRA, usage was set at 60 hours or 40 teraflop. Now it's 30 hours or 30 teraflop, so the new rules allow for far less testing.

These restrictions have been in discussion over the past 12 months, so come as no surprise to the teams.

Another regulation in Appendix 8 is the limitation in the number of runs (80) and the amount of time (60 hours) the tunnel can be in use in a week.

This is probably a more direct restriction than the limit on hours\processing. Currently a team typically complete over 250 runs while operating the tunnel 24/7 through a week.


In other news, F1 to get new anti-fuel-burny-burny safetly mats to put in storage areas to help prevent blazes like the one Williams had.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114427

The MADMAT design, which was originally created for military use to help with fuel fires on aircraft carriers, is laid under areas where fuel can get spilled.

It helps suffocate flames, reduce temperature and minimise smoke in the event of a spillage getting ignited.

The idea of bringing MADMAT to F1 was first suggested to the FIA after several Williams mechanics were injured in a fire inside the team's garage after the 2012 Spanish Grand Prix.

The system has had to be adapted for petrol use, but following a successful demonstration in front of teams and F1 race director Charlie Whiting at this year's Spanish Grand Prix, a final version is close to being given the green light to go into production.

Whiting told AUTOSPORT: "If you had it within the garage areas of teams where they store their fuel, like Williams had [in 2012], it simply would not have burned like that.

"The teams are all quite keen on this, extremely keen on it, and the possibilities are quite endless because it is good not only for F1

"We could make it mandatory, although we are not sure if we will yet or not, but I think the teams are keen enough to do it anyway."

Whiting suggests that MADMAT could transform garage safety at all levels of motor racing - and there would be no reason why circuits could not incorporate it themselves.



"It has massive possibilities for motor racing," he said. "If F1 adopts it, then I think it is a very good sign - as there is no reason why it could not filter down."

The MADMAT floor system is made up of a number of layered tiles.

A floor panel that sits atop a pan has a series of diverging holes made into its surface.

With the smaller diameter opening on the floor surface, the holes encourage fuel to flow into the pan, rather than sit on top of the floor.

The fuel is retained within the pan, so it doesn't spread across the garage floor.

Inside the pan, wadding reduces the risk of the fuel vapour rising up through the floor panel. Then the holes in the floor panel further minimise fuel vapour escaping and reigniting.

In the event of the fuel being ignited, the MADMAT system results in flames that are smaller and cooler.

The temperature of a fire is also reduced from the usual 315C to just 93C.

More importantly, there is also little or no smoke when MADMAT is used, which means dealing with any fire is much easier.
 

kmag

Member
They've had years to work on them. Some of them did their job, some didn't. They can work on them to improve reliability and at the end of the season they can redesign pretty much the entire thing.

In season upgrades would cost a fortune that the smaller teams cannot afford to support, but all engines have to be the same when supplied to multiple teams.

Teams have had years to work on aero yet get to update it constantly as their cash allows. If you are fine with locking engine development as a concept, then by extension aero design should be locked at some nebulous point in the season. After all if cost saving is the key, locking engine development is only half the story.
 

DBT85

Member
Teams have had years to work on aero yet get to update it constantly as their cash allows. If you are fine with locking engine development as a concept, then by extension aero design should be locked at some nebulous point in the season. After all if cost saving is the key, locking engine development is only half the story.

But a team is responsible for its own spending on aero. The team is not responsible for funding engine improvement, the engine developer is. And all engines from one supplier must be the same for all cars. So RedBull couldn't fund engine upgrades just for them, they'd have to go to all other Renault cars.

Marussia, Caterham, Sauber and even Williams don't have the money laying about to pay for that work all season.
 

Mastah

Member
First pictures from Red Bull Ring (by @F1PaddockPass):

[
BqPC5YhIYAAeMh_.jpg:orig

BqPC5nsIgAAflLb.jpg:orig

BqPC6GkIYAA1uIF.jpg:orig

BqPC6WKIMAAuxER.jpg:orig

BqPRMUaIQAAGxdh.jpg:orig

BqPC5MFIMAABTpc.jpg:orig

Great track and beautiful background, the same as 11 years ago :)
 

Hammer24

Banned
Looks like no more details coming regarding MSC. PR is all, wont give more news, ask that privacy will be upheld.
The "continuing rehabilitation" part doesn´t sound so optimistic anymore.
 

operon

Member
Looks like no more details coming regarding MSC. PR is all, wont give more news, ask that privacy will be upheld.
The "continuing rehabilitation" part doesn´t sound so optimistic anymore.

There was always going to be rehabilitation needed, he's been in a coma for a long time, lost a third of his body weight etc won't be easy
 

dubc35

Member
Sadly this, he could be out of coma but in vegetative state :|

Somewhat worried about this as well. But, the good news is that he's able to leave the hospital at least.

Subjective since I don't think this doctor is involved at all:
"If he's been released from the hospital he was in, it means he's able to support his own breathing and bodily functions," said Dr. Tipu Aziz, a professor of neurosurgery at Oxford University's John Radcliffe Hospital.

The fact that Schumacher is going into rehabilitation "suggests there's been long-term side effects of his injury," he added.

"With rehabilitation, they'll try to train him to cope with the disabilities that he's got to achieve as much life function as possible," Aziz said. "If he's had a brain injury, he may have weakness in his limbs secondary to loss of brain function. He may have problems with speech and swallowing."
 

Hammer24

Banned
Update:
MSC is not at home, but in the university hospital of Lausanne, about 35km from his home. He still needs the care of specialized doctors, so a care by nurses in his home was out of the question. It is unlikely that we will hear further updates soon, as everyone has agreed to grant the family privacy.
Not the news we wanted to hear. :(
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Can we please discuss Michael and his condition in the dedicated thread? Let's keep the F1 current season thread for F1 news.
 

Hammer24

Banned
Looks like the German GP will be on the Nürburgring for the next five years. This means no more alternating with Hockenheim - and no word yet, as to what happens to the races 2016 and 2018 planned there.
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
Looks like the German GP will be on the Nürburgring for the next five years. This means no more alternating with Hockenheim - and no word yet, as to what happens to the races 2016 and 2018 planned there.

Good. I really dislike current Hockenheim track.
 

pants

Member
Current HockenHeim doesn't deserve to be in the rotation, pre Villenueve Hockenheim was something special though
 

pants

Member
Pre Villeneuve?

They changed the layout because Villeneuve had a nasty accident at the first chicane (the trees' shadows over the track and the rapid changing of light levels cause by the aforementioned apparently caused his contact lenses to be unable to adjust or something and it was ruled a huge safety risk) iirc thats also why you dont see any other tree lines close to the track anymore these days. At least ones casting shadows over the track.

I may be recalling the track wrong, but I recall them using this as an excuse to cut the forest section of Hockenheim (added to the fact it is difficult to recover a driver/car from there)
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
They changed the layout because Villeneuve had a nasty accident at the first chicane (the trees' shadows over the track and the rapid changing of light levels cause by the aforementioned apparently caused his contact lenses to be unable to adjust or something and it was ruled a huge safety risk) iirc thats also why you dont see any other tree lines close to the track anymore these days. At least ones casting shadows over the track.

I may be recalling the track wrong, but I recall them using this as an excuse to cut the forest section of Hockenheim (added to the fact it is difficult to recover a driver/car from there)

Ah yes. I thought you meant that it changed before he started racing for some reason, loll. I miss that layout.
 
I recall them using this as an excuse to cut the forest section of Hockenheim
I was always under the impression that the FIA deemed the circuit too long, poor for spectators and not enough 'excitement'. Anyway, maybe it's my rose tinted visor, but Hockenheim was my favourite circuit and there's a special place in hell reserved for those responsible for its change.

Now in its honour, let's play the board game!
 
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