brotkasten
Member
Started watching the BBC recording. Still on the pre-race ramble, maybe I should skip it entirely.
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The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT| Who Will Win? Nobody Nose
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theignoramus
Member
no, Nico removed the threat of the second DRS zone with the time he gained cutting that chicane. 10 seconds behind? what are you on about, Lewis was a half second behind him and had DRS and it was Nico locking his brakes that allowed Lewis to close up even more. Yet Rosberg cutting that chicane allowed him to remove himself from the threat of an overtake attempt down that short pit straight.
Hamilton was once stripped of a win post race as it was deemed that he did not give enough of the advantage back to a guy who crashed off a couple of corners later anyway.
I don't think his breaks actually went bad, at least not to the degree that Hamilton's did. Probably a combination of not relying so heavily on the rear breaks, and not having an opponent to break for during most of the race. If he had been as bad as Perez was near the end, he would have never maintained second place.
Hah, only just finished watching the race now
Absolutely stoked for Danny. Shaneus spoiled the result in another thread when I was only 10 laps from the end. Still an awesome thing.I think they should do something about those run offs to ensure a driver can't just put the power down and drive straight through. You should LOSE time when you go off track, not gain it.
That Hamilton wasn't making a move is not the point, had there been anything in that run off at all, Rosberg would have had to have slowed down either enabling Hamilton to pass or getting Hamilton even closer than he already was.
Hamilton was piling on pressure, Nico snapped a brake and then was what, half a second farther down the road?
What if that had been the last lap and Hamilton was close enough to make the pass on the next straight or corner but by cutting it Nico got himself enough of a gap to retain the position?
That Hamilton wasn't making a move is not the point, had there been anything in that run off at all, Rosberg would have had to have slowed down either enabling Hamilton to pass or getting Hamilton even closer than he already was.
Hamilton was piling on pressure, Nico snapped a brake and then was what, half a second farther down the road?
What if that had been the last lap and Hamilton was close enough to make the pass on the next straight or corner but by cutting it Nico got himself enough of a gap to retain the position?
pants
Member
Rosberg only really maintained second because Perez was behind him. If Massa and the gang passed Perez early I'm confident they would have all passed Rosberg.
Fox Mulder
Member
Hah, only just finished watching the race now
he's becoming my favorite. So happy and positive. Beating vettel and won in a car with a shit engine.
it got old feeling the tension between Hamilton and rosberg each week on the podium.
Very likely, but I don't think anyone else would have that late in the race. Rosberg was still controlling his car well despite the problems. Perez wasn't.
On BBC they said Perez had been told his options included resetting the brakes and retiring if he thought they were that bad.
pants
Member
Nah, Rosberg being overtaken by a RedBull on a straight should tell you all about how skiddish Rosberg was being
brotkasten
Member
Finished the race.
- Fuck Ferrari
- Seriously, fuck them
- So incredibly happy for Daniel
- Shit luck for Hamilton
- Huge luck for Vettel
- Impressive drive by Rosberg, considering all things
- Crazy how fast Mercedes still was, even without ERS
- lol Button. Finished 4th and no one noticed
- Fuck Ferrari
- Seriously, fuck them
- So incredibly happy for Daniel
- Shit luck for Hamilton
- Huge luck for Vettel
- Impressive drive by Rosberg, considering all things
- Crazy how fast Mercedes still was, even without ERS
- lol Button. Finished 4th and no one noticed
I thought the FOM director was always the same besides Monaco but yesterday it looked like an amateur show.
The only time Checo was near enough to try to overtake Rosberg at the end of the straight, the director switched to a Toro Rosso (?) being pushed to the box. Why?
Button ended up 4th somehow and we didn't see how it happened (not even a replay). It's quite strange to watch the race results expecting Nico Hulkenberg to be 4th and then see Button. "Wasn't he in 8th place when Checo and Massa crashed?"
The only time Checo was near enough to try to overtake Rosberg at the end of the straight, the director switched to a Toro Rosso (?) being pushed to the box. Why?
Button ended up 4th somehow and we didn't see how it happened (not even a replay). It's quite strange to watch the race results expecting Nico Hulkenberg to be 4th and then see Button. "Wasn't he in 8th place when Checo and Massa crashed?"
mangochutney
Member
Fuji TV still do Japan don't they?
It wasn't terrible but not brilliant. Curiously I've never got the obsession with cutting to pit stops. I get the need to know they've gone in and changed tyres, and also the need to know what they've changed to but we don't need to see every car going in for every stop for the full duration.
I think Japan gets their own director still.
The FOM director(s?) have always been kinda rough, like I said yesterday I'd really appreciate some kind of picture-in-picture when they cut to replays. We always get a replay when DRS hits and there's always a risk of missing something. I'm also tired of the way we see the same camera angles year after year, one of the nice things about the Gilles Villeneuve circuit is how close the cameras are to the track and it's a lot more exciting to watch IMO.
Same thing goes for sound design, always been a weak point of FOM's production.
Yagami_Sama
Member
I still think, that Massa overdid. And punish Perez was too much.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Perez's penalty was too soft, he moved his car a car's width to the left when the track kinked right in the braking zone.
He turned in on Button in Monaco.
Last season he was smashing into other drivers, weaving in the braking zone, the season before that he was doing the same, he's a track menace, but as long as he keeps getting these soft penalties he'll continue to do it.
What he did yesterday should have resulted in an automatic race ban.
Big Takeover
Member
Got to agree the penalty is too soft, and I'm anti-penalty for the most part. I think they need to lay the lumber when someone does something truly stupid. This is clearly one of those times.
I'll just leave this here:
http://youtu.be/Jj-yf-obdAw
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...rash-f1-2013-chinese-gp_auto#from=embediframe
http://youtu.be/Jj-yf-obdAw
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...rash-f1-2013-chinese-gp_auto#from=embediframe
I don't understand why Perez is obligated to follow the curve in the track. He doesn't even "move" over on Massa. He really just straightens his wheel and drifts across the track as it curves to the right. Massa is the one who follows the kink and turns in on Perez.Perez's penalty was too soft, he moved his car a car's width to the left when the track kinked right in the braking zone.
He turned in on Button in Monaco.
Last season he was smashing into other drivers, weaving in the braking zone, the season before that he was doing the same, he's a track menace, but as long as he keeps getting these soft penalties he'll continue to do it.
What he did yesterday should have resulted in an automatic race ban.
Since when did the FIA mandate what trajectory a driver should take into a turn. The whole thing is bullshit imo.
Because there's something called racing line. The real problem there, and the rules are clear on this subject exactly to avoid what happened yesterday, is that Perez moved to the left of the racing line AFTER Massa did the same, not before. You can chose your line to defend your position as long as you do that before the driver who's behind you. Massa could be anywhere he wanted, because he was attacking, and Perez could be anywhere he wanted too, as long as he moves before, not after his opponent.
If that were true then Vettel would have been penalized in Bahrain. As I understand it you're allowed to move over once regardless as long as the following driver isn't alongside and you aren't pushing them off the track. "You have to leave'a the space!" What you aren't allowed to do is make wild defensive moves in the braking zone. I'd be surprised if an official track 'driving line' is actually specifically referred to in the rule book.
Perez took his line before Massa was alongside but had to brake much earlier and Massa couldn't react. Just a racing incident to me.
Does anyone have a screenshot of the penalty press release?
And I agree with you. Vettel should be penalized too. And for me it's a racing incident too, but this is not the first nor the second time Perez does that (see the videos I've posted above), and given the dangerousness of the crash yesterday, they had to do something, just like they did with Grosjean after Spa.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
olore
Member
We may beat a dead horse here but you touch some points that I feel are relevant. Especially your first observation. Should there be more of a penalty if you just cut across? I mean with more obstacles so anyone driver can`t just keep their foot in? Lewis was within half a second at that time. Anyways, allez, forward to the next race...
Is there a higher-res version of that pic?Perez's penalty was too soft, he moved his car a car's width to the left when the track kinked right in the braking zone.
He turned in on Button in Monaco.
Last season he was smashing into other drivers, weaving in the braking zone, the season before that he was doing the same, he's a track menace, but as long as he keeps getting these soft penalties he'll continue to do it.
What he did yesterday should have resulted in an automatic race ban.
FWIW I'm still yet to see the race. I assume the whole thing is worth watching?
Shit, I'm sorryHah, only just finished watching the race now
I had it spoiled for me when my brother decided to message me at some stupid hour on a public holiday, but that's not to justify what I did. Honestly, completely unintentional.But yeah, the reason I haven't been in this thread is because I haven't watched the race at all... it hasn't been uploaded anywhere for me to watch (and no replay on the station in Australia that has the fucking rights). Will be offering due commentary in the next 12ish hours or so!
Damning, IMO.
Wow to the all Perez hate, it wasnt his fault, the penalty is way to harsh.
Maybe, just maybe they were on a turn to the right... -.-
That screenshot is pretty disingenuous of FI. Massa's correction to the right looked odd, but was only one tiny part of the incident. You could use a single frame to paint almost any picture you wanted.
For example, look at Vettel attempting to turn in on Massa as he went past. Way to rub salt into the wound! Fuck you Vettel!
For example, look at Vettel attempting to turn in on Massa as he went past. Way to rub salt into the wound! Fuck you Vettel!
RukusProvider
Banned
The slow drift out is a pretty classic dick move to get someone off their game if they're trying to pass you.
It does a couple of things.
You push out the car passing to react, hopefully overreact, and dart to the inside which would then have them miss the corner and you get back underneath them
Or startle, which will have them lift off and slide back under you
It's meant to be subtle so it's a bit of a surprise. You'll see it often if you pay attention or done any racing. The passing vehicle will seem to have overreacted to the car they're passing.
When it doesn't work, you get contact.
No respectable drive is taking Perez's line into that corner btw. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he is a capable enough driver to not take that line.
If you show me an onboard where Perez is dealing with snap oversteer or understeer into the right kink, I'm game. Until then, he know what they trying to do. It just ended in tears.
It does a couple of things.
You push out the car passing to react, hopefully overreact, and dart to the inside which would then have them miss the corner and you get back underneath them
Or startle, which will have them lift off and slide back under you
It's meant to be subtle so it's a bit of a surprise. You'll see it often if you pay attention or done any racing. The passing vehicle will seem to have overreacted to the car they're passing.
When it doesn't work, you get contact.
No respectable drive is taking Perez's line into that corner btw. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he is a capable enough driver to not take that line.
If you show me an onboard where Perez is dealing with snap oversteer or understeer into the right kink, I'm game. Until then, he know what they trying to do. It just ended in tears.
Trying to defend his position is now a dick move? Then every driver is a dick, by your standards.
It was the race of his life, best driver at Montreal just behind Dany.
And after watching the replay several times by myself, Im pretty sure he is right.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=115467285&postcount=9672
This is why he was penalized.
Fox Mulder
Member
Wow to the all Perez hate, it wasnt his fault, the penalty is way to harsh.
the track turns to the right there though.
So, it looks like with his inevitable grid penalty (for the allowable number of replacements of PU components) and performance deficit that Vettel doesn't have a WDC-worthy car. I only ever read discussion around that being one of the terms of his contract and haven't seen the contract itself, so is it still a thing that could come into play regarding where he might wind up next year? I certainly don't think he's overjoyed at being overshadowed by his teammate, let alone the obvious Mercedes powerhouse.
ConstructMe
Banned
why do they make contracts just to break em?
This might be a new thing, too: Newey and Red Bull agree new deal. Sounds like they're keeping him away from other teams more than designing new cars (beyond 2015). Maybe Seb will stick with them for next year if Newey is still chief designer.
The real crime of a penalty is that against Chilton. What was he supposed to do once he lost the car?
How was it not horrible? They cut to the crowd every damn time anybody was trying to overtake in the hairpin without showing the actual result on track. Somebody apparently thought what the American broadcast did at the Indy 500 finish was a good idea or something.
How was it not horrible? They cut to the crowd every damn time anybody was trying to overtake in the hairpin without showing the actual result on track. Somebody apparently thought what the American broadcast did at the Indy 500 finish was a good idea or something.
It was pretty bad. It was awful when Hamilton and Rosberg were fighting it out and they did a cutaway to the grandstands while they were side by side on the track. Pit stops should be shown because it plays into the strategy of the race and a bad one can be particularly devastating.
True but I'm really confused now. I think they both should be penalized. Why the fuq massa goes so close and also steers. Ok the track turns yeah yeah but there is an F1 car right beside you. You just assume it's gonna turn?
Most logical conclusion is that Massa decides to not make the pass. Perez brakes early, but also seems to be making a slight move to the left. For me both drivers were reckless in this situation. Perez has proved in many occasions that he gives little attention to the other drivers, Massa on the other hand could have kept his distance.
This.
Elvin Atombender
Member
I haven't seen anything about penalty-points for Perez?
Is there any kind of reasoning behind how these are handed out?
Is there any kind of reasoning behind how these are handed out?
pants
Member
feels
Just watching the race now. Man... feeling for Hamilton's DNF, how frustrating for him
Edit: And watching this as a race on an open track, I have to say the sounds of the cars themselves aren't too horrific. Shame they can't do anything about the balance between the turbo whine and the engine, but if they could dial down that whine it'd probably be an improvement.
Bahahaha.
Edit: And watching this as a race on an open track, I have to say the sounds of the cars themselves aren't too horrific. Shame they can't do anything about the balance between the turbo whine and the engine, but if they could dial down that whine it'd probably be an improvement.
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