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The Formula 1 2015 Season |OT| Formula E Feeder Series

Mastah

Member
You must have been watching a different race as there were plenty of overtakes which required multiple laps to accomplish

Apparently, because skipping through the race I've seen nothing which could be described as a battle, only DRS-fest. Yawn.


Pathetic Honda is really holding McLaren back, with decent PU they would be fighting for podiums :(

Detailed GPS analysis suggested that 60 per cent of that deficit (1.6sec) was accounted for by the power unit, 30 per cent (0.8sec) from the chassis and 10 per cent (0.27sec) from accumulated losses due to not being able to run the car in optimum trim because of the power shortfall.

That same data – backed up by at least one other team – showed the car to be fastest of all through the three slow corners (though probably flattered in this by the lower tyre temperatures resultant from the power shortfall), between third-fourth fastest in the medium speed but mediocre through the high speed – partly because the wing angle appropriate for this power is low.

Yet despite that, the car was quite draggy. It was using up its full ERS deployment long before the lap was over – something which applied to all the engines at this long (4.35 mile) circuit last year, but an area in which everyone has since progressed. For parts of the circuit the Honda was minus all of its 160bhp electrical assistance.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/reports/2015-belgian-gp-report/


Meanwhile AMuS reports tyre failures can happen again at Monza, they speculate new rear tyre construction is to blame:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...ei-pirelli-runden-limit-in-monza-9910740.html
 

Dilly

Banned
Apparently, because skipping through the race I've seen nothing which could be described as a battle, only DRS-fest. Yawn.


Pathetic Honda is really holding McLaren back, with decent PU they would be fighting for podiums :(




Meanwhile AMuS reports tyre failures can happen again at Monza, they speculate new rear tyre construction is to blame:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...ei-pirelli-runden-limit-in-monza-9910740.html

In Arai's little world, it is quite the opposite!

Arai suggested the limitations of the MP4-30, which McLaren has updated continuously over the course of the season, masked Honda's engine performance in Hungary, where Arai said the unit was running at full power.

"[The car has] not so good mechanical grip, or aero, compared with Red Bull there is still a big gap," Arai added.

"We have checked the GPS data; the chassis and aero package needs time and fine-tuning, such as wing angle, ride heights, suspension settings.
 

acm2000

Member
I'm still waiting for something like this to happen to Maldonado:
d2debcd5.gif

stil my fav f1 "crash" of recent times, just wish could see his reaction under that helmet :D
 

DD

Member
Andretti stepped down on using their own powertrain for the second season on Formula E. They'll go back to the last year's spec. So... they'll won't be the fastest on track, but at least they expect to be reliable.
 

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
Andretti stepped down on using their own powertrain for the second season on Formula E. They'll go back to the last year's spec. So... they'll won't be the fastest on track, but at least they expect to be reliable.

Were they running the old engines today? (EDIT: Yes) I see they managed to finally run some laps. They'll join Aguri who'll also still use the old engines.

Team Trulli however still failed to run laps.
 

DD

Member
Were they running the old engines today? (EDIT: Yes) I see they managed to finally run some laps. They'll join Aguri who'll also still use the old engines.

Team Trulli however still failed to run laps.

Yep, they decided to use the old powertrain. Damn, I want Frijns on a competitive team. =/



Well, at least he is having a lot of #fun.

And no more Trulli trains, because Jarno is retiring
Yep.
 

Xun

Member
R.I.P. Justin Wilson.

A sad loss for the motorsport yet again. :(

Spa was fine to get to, I wouldn't bother with the official parking next time though, there was a brilliant campsite to park in about 200 meters from the track.
I'll have to check that out if I go again.

Whilst getting into the circuit was painless, getting out took absolutely ages (3 hours to get back to the town we were staying in).

Fantastic first race experience for me though! I throughly enjoyed it.

I expected the cars to sound pathetic, but I thought they sounded fine (aside from the Honda). In many ways I even preferred the sound to the roar of the GP2/3 cars.

I'll write up something more in-depth/upload some pics soon when I get the chance.
 
Getting out is a nightmare on race day at pretty much every track. Unlike the rest of the days, virtually everyone leaves at the same time.
 

Aiii

So not worth it
Still shocked at Justin's death...though in death, he's still saving lives by donating 6 organs

More here.

That is great. I too have been registered as a donor since I turned 18. I hope everyone here who isn't registered as a donor will do so as well (and/or inform your next of kin you wish to donate if something happens to you) It is one of the best ways to turn your dead into a "good" thing.

Good on Justin, RIP.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Looks interesting. Might be a good compromise between a full canopy and an easy exit.
 

Shaneus

Member
Supposedly the FIA looking at testing something like this next:

f1-fia-to-carry-out-closed-cockpit-tests-2015-fia-to-carry-out-closed-cockpit-tests.0.0.jpg
Fuck, they ripped off my idea 10 minutes before I had it. Bastards:
Pretty much. Only other solution I could think of that doesn't involve a cockpit would basically be struts or something connected to that bit they take out of the car when they leave it at the end of the race, that surround the head. Something like a canopy frame but without the canopy.

Crappy paint work (while I'm at work :/):
ktqvG6h.png


Obviously not quite as snug as that, but I think something like that could work without being to the detriment of the sport (or the overall appearance of the cars). At least, not as detrimental as something like the change in sound with the V6s has apparently been.
 
The merc halo concept probably would have saved Wilson, although it might not have done anything to prevent Massa's head injury, and could have made close calls like Alonso sliding across the top of Kimi's cockpit in Austria a hell of a lot worse.

It's a really tricky engineering problem to create something that doesn't introduce new dangers.
 

Mohonky

Member
This is from 4 years ago

FIA Institute F1 Car Cockpit test

If you had extra re-inforcement or some sort of roll cage setup, I could definitly see the Jules incident being avoided in a closed canopy scenario.


We already know how to prevent Jules accident from happening; slow the cars down or stop them when a heavy vehicle is on track. Prevention is better than it ever occurring in the first place.

You are never going to make the cars indestructible.
 

ramparter

Banned
If it works that's perfectly acceptable. Of course it won't stop everything, but it's certainly better than nothing.
This. I hope they really do their best in finding the most safe approach. As for aesthetics, this is really fine by me.

I think it's time to go forward and leave the open cockpits behind. Obviously, as in real life, you can never eliminate the risks but the more casualties you can prevent the better.

We already know how to prevent Jules accident from happening; slow the cars down or stop them when a heavy vehicle is on track. Prevention is better than it ever occurring in the first place.
Obviously but that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least examine scenarios where this could happen. It wouldn't be bad for example to also have some "softer" bodywork around all the heavy vehicles to absorb portion of the impact.
 

yami4ct

Member
Supposedly the FIA looking at testing something like this next:

f1-fia-to-carry-out-closed-cockpit-tests-2015-fia-to-carry-out-closed-cockpit-tests.0.0.jpg

This definitely would help deflect large debris, but I think if we're going with any sort of screen/canopy concept, catching the small stuff like what hit Massa also should be considered. Even if that middle portion is clear, I'd also be concerned about what it might do for visibility. I'm sure smarter engineering minds than me have figured it out, but it definitely seems like a bit of a concern. A full windscreen with mounting points behind the driver or a canopy would probably be the most complete way to catch debris, but that might open up greater safety issues in terms of escaping the car or the close call Alonso/Kimi had.

Whatever they work out, I'm totally OK with. Safety should always be a top concern in a sport like this. You'll never stop every tragedy from occurring, but you can do your best to prevent what you can foresee.
 

Ark

Member
The only issue I have is another giant 'fin' right in the middle of the driver's view. Not really an issue per se, but surely that'd be a huge pain to deal with at 200mph.
 

Dilly

Banned
All the ideas so far are a worse alternative than having open cockpits. With every proposal made so far, a whole new list of dangers are introduced.
 
Auto racing is a deadly sport. I hear about making cockpits enclosed. Well, why not put nerf bars on those dangerous open wheels? Then we can just call it NASCAR and we can stop watching it.

Open wheel racing brings potentially fatal consequences. That's the reality every driver understands when they step into their very first kart. Don't like it? Don't drive, and don't watch.

Drivers being struck by debris are fluke events. You don't change the essence of the sport over every fluke. And how far down the line do we sanction such kneejerk changes anyway? Karting is dangerous at very low levels. Do the safety mongerers not care about those feeder series, where the danger is just a high, but the exposure isn't?

I feel so old because I remember when this sport was legitimately deadly. We've reached a happy medium IMO. If you remove the spectre of death, you drastically diminish the interest. Because then you'll just encourage boneheaded drivers to take unreasonable risks, whereas now they're curtailed by the real possibility that death can result. Just look at the asshats populating the NASCAR grid. No bleeping thanks.
 

Nicktendo86

Member
It's Ronbo's fault, he pressured Honda to return this season instead of 2016 according to Mystic Eddie.


2016's MK4 will be sensational.

Bollocks. Besides, another year out of the sport without real world data would have just hurt them even more. I'm not expecting them to be world beaters anytime soon but I expect them to make Ferrari like improvements next year.
 
Couldn't disagree more. In my opinion the racing in the Le Mans series is plenty interesting, and they manage just fine with closed cockpits. (and if you weren't aware, they didn't used to be closed cockpits)

Edit - @Rock Hardy
 

Dilly

Banned
Auto racing is a deadly sport. I hear about making cockpits enclosed. Well, why not put nerf bars on those dangerous open wheels? Then we can just call it NASCAR and we can stop watching it.

Open wheel racing brings potentially fatal consequences. That's the reality every driver understands when they step into their very first kart. Don't like it? Don't drive, and don't watch.

Drivers being struck by debris are fluke events. You don't change the essence of the sport over every fluke. And how far down the line do we sanction such kneejerk changes anyway? Karting is dangerous at very low levels. Do the safety mongerers not care about those feeder series, where the danger is just a high, but the exposure isn't?

I feel so old because I remember when this sport was legitimately deadly. We've reached a happy medium IMO. If you remove the spectre of death, you drastically diminish the interest. Because then you'll just encourage boneheaded drivers to take unreasonable risks, whereas now they're curtailed by the real possibility that death can result. Just look at the asshats populating the NASCAR grid. No bleeping thanks.

This same rethoric was used back when fatal accidents were a regular occurence.
 
This same rethoric was used back when fatal accidents were a regular occurence.
You have proof of that?

There was a period in the 80s and 90s where open wheel fans like myself prayed for an increase in safety. The cars simply weren't that strong, and the track designs meant that every off carried consequences. I started as an Indycar fan, so wrecks were particularly disastrous every race. I don't remember anyone saying the formulas should stay static back then.

However, the last few deaths I can remember have been fluke. Hell, even Greg Moore's tragic death was a fluke. You don't legislate out fluke. Why exactly do we need closed cockpits again? How low of a level do you think these closed cockpits should be implemented? You realize karts are all open cockpit from the lowest levels up, right?

Debris can clip kids driving in their first races, which I'd personally find much more tragic than a veteran of a major series. Death is a part of this sport. The single most dangerous feature of open wheel racing is the open wheels. I don't see you asking to cover those. Why is that? Oh...it might diminish the spectacle because it would remove the element of danger that makes open wheel that much more appealing than fendered formulas.

Buffer style safety crusades are great, right up until they make a sport you love suck. Debris strikes were less of a concern when cockpits were more exposed in the 80s and 90s. You know why? There weren't a few high profile incidents that caused social media to chirp up. These are fluke events. Tragic as they are, we need to accept that we watch a tragic sport. The massive increase in safety regulations has made some forget this fact so that when the random oddball event happens, suddenly there's a need for new rules. It's completely reactionary, and that's almost never the source of great policy. It's much like the virtual safety car was implemented because one driver didn't use discretion in the wet.
 

Mastah

Member
Auto racing is a deadly sport. I hear about making cockpits enclosed. Well, why not put nerf bars on those dangerous open wheels? Then we can just call it NASCAR and we can stop watching it.

Open wheel racing brings potentially fatal consequences. That's the reality every driver understands when they step into their very first kart. Don't like it? Don't drive, and don't watch.

Drivers being struck by debris are fluke events. You don't change the essence of the sport over every fluke. And how far down the line do we sanction such kneejerk changes anyway? Karting is dangerous at very low levels. Do the safety mongerers not care about those feeder series, where the danger is just a high, but the exposure isn't?

I feel so old because I remember when this sport was legitimately deadly. We've reached a happy medium IMO. If you remove the spectre of death, you drastically diminish the interest. Because then you'll just encourage boneheaded drivers to take unreasonable risks, whereas now they're curtailed by the real possibility that death can result. Just look at the asshats populating the NASCAR grid. No bleeping thanks.

I more or less agree. I think there should element of danger involved, but not necessarily for the benefit of fans, but rather self-preservation of drivers. Anthony Davidson said it very well, here's the quote:

"The FIA have done an incredible job, amazing when you think of where it used to be in the 60s and the 70s, and the cars are going faster now then ever before. The problem is, the safer the circuit becomes the more ruthless the driving becomes. So today there is such little respect for each others' safety on the track. They feel like they can bang wheels in a straight line, but 'the car is mega-safe – it will take it' is the belief and therefore you get this crazy, almost borderline reckless driving coming into play."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/oct/20/anthony-davidson-motor-sport-safety

Safety measures and regulations have their dowsides, we shouldn't forget that.
 
Couldn't disagree more. In my opinion the racing in the Le Mans series is plenty interesting, and they manage just fine with closed cockpits. (and if you weren't aware, they didn't used to be closed cockpits)

Edit - @Rock Hardy
Current LM spec is just a spinoff of old IMSA which were closed cockpit. The racing was good then, and is now. But it's not open wheel racing, so the consequences were never the same.

I, for one, am not watching car racing because there's a possibility someone can die.
What makes a great overtake great? It's toeing the line between disaster and glory because pushing a car on the limit while going wheel to wheel can result in a terrible accident. That's thanks to the open wheels. What makes the Arnoux vs Villeneuve battle so legendary? Because one wheel wrong and someone could well have died. That battle goes down at Sonoma every year in NASCAR. No one gives a rip to remember any of them. Why? No one cares if they wreck because the consequences are minimal.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I don't try to pretend that the danger isn't a big part of the appeal. F1 races are largely boring affairs. We watch for those edge of the seat moments. We're on the edge of our seats because the stakes are much higher in open wheel than fendered cars.
 

DD

Member
You have proof of that?

There was a period in the 80s and 90s where open wheel fans like myself prayed for an increase in safety. The cars simply weren't that strong, and the track designs meant that every off carried consequences. I started as an Indycar fan, so wrecks were particularly disastrous every race. I don't remember anyone saying the formulas should stay static back then.

However, the last few deaths I can remember have been fluke. Hell, even Greg Moore's tragic death was a fluke. You don't legislate out fluke. Why exactly do we need closed cockpits again? How low of a level do you think these closed cockpits should be implemented? You realize karts are all open cockpit from the lowest levels up, right?

Debris can clip kids driving in their first races, which I'd personally find much more tragic than a veteran of a major series. Death is a part of this sport. The single most dangerous feature of open wheel racing is the open wheels. I don't see you asking to cover those. Why is that? Oh...it might diminish the spectacle because it would remove the element of danger that makes open wheel that much more appealing than fendered formulas.

Buffer style safety crusades are great, right up until they make a sport you love suck. Debris strikes were less of a concern when cockpits were more exposed in the 80s and 90s. You know why? There weren't a few high profile incidents that caused social media to chirp up. These are fluke events. Tragic as they are, we need to accept that we watch a tragic sport. The massive increase in safety regulations has made some forget this fact so that when the random oddball event happens, suddenly there's a need for new rules. It's completely reactionary, and that's almost never the source of great policy. It's much like the virtual safety car was implemented because one driver didn't use discretion in the wet.
Kids karts usually don't drop debris when they crash, and even if they do, the speeds are low to cause harm. I agree that danger is part of the sport. Danger is what makes you think twice before making a stupid move, but not what makes you think twice before you get hit by a spring, a suspension bar, a tire, a 25 Kg ballast out of nowhere...
 
Every documentary about the subject, and Jackie Stewart's damn hard work and resulting unpopularity to make things better than they were.
Are you taking about fans or race teams who have to incur the added costs of these safety regulations? My opinion is the fan's opinion. It costs is nothing to make these changes, and outside of the Mickey Mouse chicanes that destroyed some great circuits in the 90s, I don't remember many fans claiming we were at a happy medium on safety back then. But the sport is safer, and I find it ironic that the greatest push to enclose cockpits is coming now that cockpits are their most enclosed. Drivers were far more exposed in the past, and flying debris was never a great concern. It's because debris strikes are statistical flukes. It was a far greater concern for spectators than drivers. Let's legislate the lowest probability events while ignoring the open wheels that have killed more drivers.

I remember a CART race in Canada where a car went airborne and got shredded on the chain link fence before watching the driver's lifeless body slumped in his exposed tub. If the wheels were shrouded like lower kart series, that would've never happened. But hey, social media want around then, or we might well be watching cars with nerf bars. Or in my case, not watching anymore.
 
What makes a great overtake great? It's toeing the line between disaster and glory because pushing a car on the limit while going wheel to wheel can result in a terrible accident. That's thanks to the open wheels. What makes the Arnoux vs Villeneuve battle so legendary? Because one wheel wrong and someone could well have died.

Yeah, sorry but that's just crap. When I see a racer barely hanging on around the outside of a corner I'm not on the edge of my seat because they may hit wheels and die, or smash into a barrier and be horribly injured. I'm on the edge of my seat because the risk is they spin out / go off track and lose a bunch of time or places.

You clearly watch racing with a very different mindset to me.
 

DD

Member
Are you taking about fans or race teams who have to incur the added costs of these safety regulations? My opinion is the fan's opinion. It costs is nothing to make these changes, and outside of the Mickey Mouse chicanes that destroyed some great circuits in the 90s, I don't remember many fans claiming we were at a happy medium on safety back then. But the sport is safer, and I find it ironic that the greatest push to enclose cockpits is coming now that cockpits are their most enclosed. Drivers were far more exposed in the past, and flying debris was never a great concern. It's because debris strikes are statistical flukes. It was a far greater concern for spectators than drivers. Let's legislate the lowest probability events while ignoring the open wheels that have killed more drivers.

I remember a CART race in Canada where a car went airborne and got shredded on the chain link fence before watching the driver's lifeless body slumped in his exposed tub. If the wheels were shrouded like lower kart series, that would've never happened. But hey, social media want around then, or we might well be watching cars with nerf bars. Or in my case, not watching anymore.
The mickey mouse tracks came in response of Senna's death in 1994. Would you prefer the chicanes or closed cockpits? I know that Id chose closed cockpits. Anyway, thigs were done to prevent tire contacts both at Indycar and Formula 1. In F1 the botton of the car goes to the front of the rear wheels, and the very wide front wings are meant to prevent the contact.



On Indy they went further, making even wider front wings, and completely shielding the rear wheels.



Now look at these cars:

 

Dilly

Banned
Are you taking about fans or race teams who have to incur the added costs of these safety regulations? My opinion is the fan's opinion. It costs is nothing to make these changes, and outside of the Mickey Mouse chicanes that destroyed some great circuits in the 90s, I don't remember many fans claiming we were at a happy medium on safety back then. But the sport is safer, and I find it ironic that the greatest push to enclose cockpits is coming now that cockpits are their most enclosed. Drivers were far more exposed in the past, and flying debris was never a great concern. It's because debris strikes are statistical flukes. It was a far greater concern for spectators than drivers. Let's legislate the lowest probability events while ignoring the open wheels that have killed more drivers.

I remember a CART race in Canada where a car went airborne and got shredded on the chain link fence before watching the driver's lifeless body slumped in his exposed tub. If the wheels were shrouded like lower kart series, that would've never happened. But hey, social media want around then, or we might well be watching cars with nerf bars. Or in my case, not watching anymore.

If there was resistance from track owners, media and even other drivers that resulted in Stewart even getting death threats, it is safe to assume there were also a number of fans that were opposed to it.

It could very well be a minority of the fans, just as you are now in this discussion. But my statement still stands.

Yeah, sorry but that's just crap. When I see a racer barely hanging on around the outside of a corner I'm not on the edge of my seat because they may hit wheels and die, or smash into a barrier and be horribly injured. I'm on the edge of my seat because the risk is they spin out / go off track and lose a bunch of time or places.

You clearly watch racing with a very different mindset to me.

Agreed.
 

DD

Member
That's a so f*cked up logic. As if only the crazy driver was getting himself only into risk. What if that tire on Grojean's car had hit Alonso's head in Spa that time? What Fernando had to do with Romain's crazy behavior? What did Massa had to do with the badly placed spring on Barrichello's car in Hungaroring? What did Justing Wilson had to do with Karan's crash at Pocono? This is not an "acceptable" danger. Acceptable danger is you driving like a Maldonado and spinning and crashing alone, but a driver should not be victim of circumstances.
 

Aiii

So not worth it
Yeah, sorry but that's just crap. When I see a racer barely hanging on around the outside of a corner I'm not on the edge of my seat because they may hit wheels and die, or smash into a barrier and be horribly injured. I'm on the edge of my seat because the risk is they spin out / go off track and lose a bunch of time or places.

You clearly watch racing with a very different mindset to me.

Yep, this.
 
I always just though Jackie Stewart was unpopular cause of his hard nosed interview with Senna, I had no idea it was because he actually championed safety. That's disturbing and enlightening at the same time.
 

itsgreen

Member

hadareud

The Translator
The question I ask myself is whether we're starting to reach a stage where not only open cockpits are no longer rectifiable with how health and safety has developed over the last 30 or so years, but whether racing as a whole is something that no longer fits in. Or at least something that won't do for much longer.

Our way of thinking has fundamentally changed. Something that was completely normal in the 70s or 80s (say crowd safety for instance, or the complete lack of it) is now absolutely unthinkeable. I'm not saying that's a bad thing by the way, I think it's an almost entirely positive one.

Having said that, it also means that things we liked in the past and still cling onto will at some stage also start to look like something that was completely mental. Racing could be seen as somewhat of a link with the past that is starting to no longer make sense, whether it's from a safety or environmental perspective. So it probably no longer makes sense to say that racing is inherently risky and quite possibly fatal, no matter whether it's true or not. At some stage I suppose we're reaching a stage where any additional safety measures change the sport beyond recognition, though I wouldn't say that we've reached that stage quite yet (open or closed cockpit or not).
 
@Rock Hardy

While you're certainly entitled to your opinion, your opinion is perverse.

Motor racing is dangerous and always will be, and it is part of the allure. Safety is about minimizing risk. There's only so much you can do, but those things must be done. However, you're traveling in a machine potentially going 200mph, you can die. No one should ever think otherwise. That certainly applies any other racing series including karts. Racing will never be a no-risk sport, so let's not jump the chasm of equating safety with no-risk. It's not the reality of it.

Everyone loves a good accident, but there are very few people who need serious injury or death accompanying it to give the sport legitimacy. That's fucking twisted.

Drivers being struck by debris are fluke events. You don't change the essence of the sport over every fluke. And how far down the line do we sanction such kneejerk changes anyway? Karting is dangerous at very low levels. Do the safety mongerers not care about those feeder series, where the danger is just a high, but the exposure isn't?

Accidents are fluke events by their very nature. OK, some are more flukey than others, but they all deserve some level of scrutiny especially if there are unusual circumstances. Often times it's minor things that go overlooked, but have dire implications in an accident.

I feel so old because I remember when this sport was legitimately deadly. We've reached a happy medium IMO. If you remove the spectre of death, you drastically diminish the interest. Because then you'll just encourage boneheaded drivers to take unreasonable risks, whereas now they're curtailed by the real possibility that death can result. Just look at the asshats populating the NASCAR grid. No bleeping thanks.

You're perverted. Sorry. Poor driving can be combated in a much more humane way than hanging death over people's heads. Throwing people out of the sport would accomplish the exact same thing. Allowing them to kill themselves instead is barbarism.

However, the last few deaths I can remember have been fluke. Hell, even Greg Moore's tragic death was a fluke. You don't legislate out fluke. Why exactly do we need closed cockpits again? How low of a level do you think these closed cockpits should be implemented? You realize karts are all open cockpit from the lowest levels up, right?

Greg Moore's death was not a fluke. There's a reason they paved the Fontana infield, and many other tracks have done the same. It's dangerous, and could happen again. There's a reason they don't do 240mph at California anymore. It's dangerous, and could happen again. Contributing factors to death that added no benefit to racing whatsoever. Get rid of them. Why wouldn't you?

Buffer style safety crusades are great, right up until they make a sport you love suck. Debris strikes were less of a concern when cockpits were more exposed in the 80s and 90s. You know why? There weren't a few high profile incidents that caused social media to chirp up. These are fluke events. Tragic as they are, we need to accept that we watch a tragic sport. The massive increase in safety regulations has made some forget this fact so that when the random oddball event happens, suddenly there's a need for new rules. It's completely reactionary, and that's almost never the source of great policy. It's much like the virtual safety car was implemented because one driver didn't use discretion in the wet.

Nope. Debris strikes were less of an issue in the 80's and 90's because there were two cars on the lead lap, and half of the rest of the field dropped out with a mechanical. Justin Wilson was the 12th car to go by an accident that was over and done within a few short seconds.

Virtual safety car - modern racing doesn't afford discretion when it comes to pace. If you're not driving to gain an advantage at all times, you'll be out of a job in short order. It's up to the governing body to provide a safe racing environment for drivers, crews, fans, and marshals. Remember when none of the major series had pitlane speed limits? It was only the 90's. The idea of no limit seems insane now. Completely unnecessary.

What makes a great overtake great? It's toeing the line between disaster and glory because pushing a car on the limit while going wheel to wheel can result in a terrible accident. That's thanks to the open wheels. What makes the Arnoux vs Villeneuve battle so legendary? Because one wheel wrong and someone could well have died.

Complete bullshit unless you've got bloodlust. The potential for death has nothing to do with that battle whatsoever. Crashing? Yes. Death? What the hell's wrong with you? Do you even like racing?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I don't try to pretend that the danger isn't a big part of the appeal. F1 races are largely boring affairs. We watch for those edge of the seat moments. We're on the edge of our seats because the stakes are much higher in open wheel than fendered cars.

Nah, I don't think you do. No appreciation for the craft of racing. Just death defying stunts.

I remember a CART race in Canada where a car went airborne and got shredded on the chain link fence before watching the driver's lifeless body slumped in his exposed tub. If the wheels were shrouded like lower kart series, that would've never happened. But hey, social media want around then, or we might well be watching cars with nerf bars. Or in my case, not watching anymore.

Jeff Krosnoff was killed because his car stuck a tree on the other side of the fencing. They cut the tree down which was the correct course of action. Open wheels didn't kill him, the tree did. A marshal was killed too because he was in front of the catch fencing, not behind it. You guessed it, they made the right decision and moved marshals behind the fencing at all times.

I won't let the facts get in the way of your bullshit story though.

If you haven't guessed by now, I found your posts pitiful.
 

Risgroo

Member
Well said, Big Takeover. I haven't been following motorsports for that long, so Simoncelli and Bianchi's crashes are the only fatal racing accidents I've seen on live TV, but seeing athletes I admire get killed is something I never want to see again. Let's not forget that we're talking about real people here, and after what happened to Justin his two little girls have to grow up without a dad. There's absolutely nothing exciting about the thought of that happening to anyone. Disgusting.

Racing will always be dangerous, yes, but if there's a chance that closed cockpits or other measures will prevent injuries and deaths without completely changing the sport, it should at the very least be seriously considered.
Sorry if my post doesn't make any sense, just needed to vent a bit.
 
The single most dangerous feature of open wheel racing is the open wheels. I don't see you asking to cover those. Why is that? Oh...it might diminish the spectacle because it would remove the element of danger that makes open wheel that much more appealing than fendered formulas.

Actually, open wheels are the most likely cause of a driver losing control, but they're by no means the most dangerous aspect of the sport due to the excellent work that's been done on the drivers' safety cell over the years. You can lose control and not inherently be in a life or death scenario, but losing control in an open cockpit is much more dangerous due to the increased exposure of the driver.
 
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