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The GAF POP |OT| of Diversity, Hidden Talent, and Stan Wars

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M

Mumei

Member
but worse than Perry?

By that standard, I'm "singing better" than her by not singing at all.
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He was referring to her habit of supporting her notes in her throat (which is why she has that throat-y sound, especially live), which is most likely the cause of her having vocal problems and requiring vocal surgery this early in her career.

But I can't really hate:

SecretMoblin said:
She's no Mariah
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ilMDyk4GJWyVR.gif
iXYG5gS6KKowD.gif
 
R

royalan

Member
Mumei said:
Okay, first, royalan, shut up talking and watch that Whitney Houston video. Cleanse thyself from Katy Perry.
Click to expand...

Wow, that was some COMPREHENSIVE stanning.

I was particularly impressed with the section on her volume control and crescendos. I mean, her crescendo game...

37mdB.gif


WHO could ever?




... I didn't even know what her head voice sounds like until I just looked it up. I'm not seeing what's impressing him so much, though? Did you hear it? I was just looking up random range clips, and it sounds like pretty normal female falsetto, not even connected head voice.

I mean I'm not saying that it is bad, but comparing her airy falsetto (and without any apparent ability to sustain it or do anything with it) to Beyonce's connected and versatile head voice seems a bit... off to me. I mean compare Beyonce to Leona here and I honestly think Beyonce is better for most of it; she's got a fuller and more connected sound.

Do you agree with him? I mean I don't want to dismiss what he's saying out of hand since he should be far more qualified than I am (e.g., not at all), but I just don't get it.



We did talk about this! Girl's no Dusty Springfield, despite those lies she's been whispered.
Click to expand...

krypt0nian said:
You're not understanding what he's saying.



"He didn't attempt to defend her lazy chest voice and belt range"

He only complimented her head voice. No one with any knowledge would defend the rest.
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I don't know if I agree with him, just something interesting to think about....eh? He was particularly enamored with how she sings words in her head voice (he specifically referenced this moment from "ET" and her song "Not Like The Movies").

I don't see anything special about it, but I also can't think of any females primarily singing in their head voice these days, so that might be helping her in his eyes. lol

As far as female singers who primarily stay in head voice, we all know who my fave is in that regard...
 
M

Mumei

Member
royalan said:
Wow, that was some COMPREHENSIVE stanning.

I was particularly impressed with the section on her volume control and crescendos. I mean, her crescendo game...

37mdB.gif


WHO could ever?
Click to expand...

Yeah, he seemed to spend a lot of time on that section in particular. Those sections where she was going from nothing to crescendo were *shudder* so good.

Speaking of those videos, though, Fugu was criticizing the Beyonce one for being hyperbolic and inaccurate (specifically with regards to the note called pianissimo). I was wondering what you thought of the charges. Right now I think the criticisms seem a bit overblown to me, at least with regards to hyperbole and the possible pianissimo inaccuracy), but I was wondering what you (and krypt!) thought about it.

I don't know if I agree with him, just something interesting to think about....eh? He was particularly enamored with how she sings words in her head voice (he specifically referenced this moment from "ET" and her song "Not Like The Movies").

I don't see anything special about it, but I also can't think of any females primarily singing in their head voice these days, so that might be helping her in his eyes. lol
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If he wants female singers singing primarily in head voice, he needs to trot his ass over to operaland because he ain't getting much of that in pop music. And while I just can't understand his Katy Perry stanning, I would accept stanning for quite a few female opera singers.

As far as female singers who primarily stay in head voice, we all know who my fave is in that regard...
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Well I I didn't know that.
 
S

Sai-kun

Banned
The leak of Lies has a longer quiet section after the second chorus.

Amazing tier
Lies
Living Dead

Great tier
Primadonna
Fear and Loathing
Power & Control
The State of Dreaming

Decent tier
Teen Idle
Starring Role
Bubblegum Bitch

Just Okay tier
Homewrecker

God why? tier
Hypocrates
Valley of the Dolls
 
R

royalan

Member
Mumei said:
Speaking of those videos, though, Fugu was criticizing the Beyonce one for being hyperbolic and inaccurate (specifically with regards to the note called pianissimo). I was wondering what you thought of the charges. Right now I think the criticisms seem a bit overblown to me, at least with regards to hyperbole and the possible pianissimo inaccuracy), but I was wondering what you (and krypt!) thought about it.
Click to expand...

Taking a quick glance, I think Fugo is being a bit picky. Even though he shaded the ever-living hell out of my fave, BZBlaner knows his stuff. Beyonce's not "straight-up" descending the chromatic scale, but she is running down it, so I think BZBlaner's description of that moment was accurate.

Hmmm, I'm undecided on her "pianissimo" though. I mean, he clearly knows what pianissimo is (that shouldn't be argued), but he might be exaggerating a bit with those notes he highlights. Starting from 2:18 in the video, that C#5 sounds pianissimo to me. But not so much the D5 that immediately follows. I don't know, something about Beyonce's voice sounds too "heavy" there...

But going back to the Whitney video, BZBlaner correctly identifies pianissimo with her. All the notes he identified as such were soft, like delicate threads being pulled taut. But maybe Beyonce isn't capable of being that soft vocally.
 
P

Phonomezer

Banned
Sai-kun said:
The leak of Lies has a longer quiet section after the second chorus.

Amazing tier
Lies
Living Dead

Great tier
Primadonna
Fear and Loathing
Power & Control
The State of Dreaming

Decent tier
Teen Idle
Starring Role
Bubblegum Bitch

Just Okay tier
Homewrecker

God why? tier
Hypocrates
Valley of the Dolls
Click to expand...

Everyone loves PRIMATURE but I can just never get a FEEL for that song.
 
S

Sai-kun

Banned
I'm moving Teen Idle up to Great Tier and Valley of the Dolls up to Just Okay Tier.

The wasted years
The wasted youth
The pretty lies
The ugly truth

<3
 
M

Mumei

Member
royalan said:
Taking a quick glance, I think Fugo is being a bit picky. Even though he shaded the ever-living hell out of my fave, BZBlaner knows his stuff. Beyonce's not "straight-up" descending the chromatic scale, but she is running down it, so I think BZBlaner's description of that moment was accurate.

Hmmm, I'm undecided on her "pianissimo" though. I mean, he clearly knows what pianissimo is (that shouldn't be argued), but he might be exaggerating a bit with those notes he highlights. Starting from 2:18 in the video, that C#5 sounds pianissimo to me. But not so much the D5 that immediately follows. I don't know, something about Beyonce's voice sounds too "heavy" there...

But going back to the Whitney video, BZBlaner correctly identifies pianissimo with her. All the notes he identified as such were soft, like delicate threads being pulled taut. But maybe Beyonce isn't capable of being that soft vocally.
Click to expand...

I agree about the D5. It doesn't sound right at all. And I didn't even listen to it the first time; I just listened to the C#5 and thought, "... Well it sounds soft enough to me." The Eb5 does, though.

And he can identify pianissimo correctly; he's identified this note (God, it's so floaty) and this note as pianissimo as well, and I don't think anyone would argue those.

It might just be that he was being overzealous in trying to find examples (and didn't want to leave a gap between C#5 and Eb5), since I think that there were other moments in the video that were sufficiently soft. I mean she's not Whitney - and listening to Whitney's volume control, who is? - but she seems to have good volume control nonetheless.
 
K

krypt0nian

Banned
royalan said:
Taking a quick glance, I think Fugo is being a bit picky. Even though he shaded the ever-living hell out of my fave, BZBlaner knows his stuff. Beyonce's not "straight-up" descending the chromatic scale, but she is running down it, so I think BZBlaner's description of that moment was accurate.

Hmmm, I'm undecided on her "pianissimo" though. I mean, he clearly knows what pianissimo is (that shouldn't be argued), but he might be exaggerating a bit with those notes he highlights. Starting from 2:18 in the video, that C#5 sounds pianissimo to me. But not so much the D5 that immediately follows. I don't know, something about Beyonce's voice sounds too "heavy" there...

But going back to the Whitney video, BZBlaner correctly identifies pianissimo with her. All the notes he identified as such were soft, like delicate threads being pulled taut. But maybe Beyonce isn't capable of being that soft vocally.
Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts. Every voice has it's limits, and most, *the vast interstellar majority*, are not those of Whitney Houston.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
Upon first listen to Electra Heart I feel like the great songs were already leaked/released.

None of the new tracks are bad, but none of them stand out either.


Also, I'm kinda disappointed how The State of Dreaming dissolves into a pretty standard pop song, while the into was also used for this little video "the archetypes", which I find very haunting and interesting sounding.
 
M

Mumei

Member
royalan said:
Wow, is that Mariah Carey singing that intro???

I might have to listen to "Memoirs" then. For some reason I didn't think she could still sing like that.
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Yes, yes it is. Not as good as studio, but her head voice has come a long way since the beginning of her career.

Her head voice is actually better now than it used to be. Early in her career, she basically hit almost everything in a really light falsetto (like this C#6 in You Need Me; the It's A Wrap note is a C6). She still does that, but starting around ... I don't know, late 90s early 00s she started developing a connected head voice as well. Now it is pretty well-developed. She's still no Whitney Houston in that regard, mind you, but it's still beautiful.
 
M

Mumei

Member
Hearing about how American Idol was going to have Queen as a part of the theme this week gave me the idea of making one of these for Freddie. Now granted he is not a pop star, but he is a Queen and more than fabulous enough. And besides, a lot of Queen's music is basically pop rock.

I tended to ignore notes that I thought were unmusical or cracks (e.g. his E6s or F6s or his fry and spoken notes below F2 and shut up about the C#6 not being very musical I couldn&#8217;t find a good one!) or so brief that I couldn&#8217;t even hear them. Technically the total range of notes he&#8217;s hit is slightly higher, but I prefer a stricter but more representative sample anyway.

And in other news, I updated the Mariah and Whitney ones a little bit (changed a couple things, fixed some links, added in the new vocal thing for Whitney).

It's not quite *complete* since I have had a bit of trouble finding some notes, but it'll get there!

Freddie Mercury
iOHJhPlYlZb7A.jpg


High Notes (Falsetto):

Mid / High Notes (Modal):
Low Notes

And file this acapella track of The Show Must Go On under recommended listening.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
I just saw that the guy who makes all these videos that analyze female singer's voices, made a video to trash Christina Aguilera.

Makes me wonder: does he really know his shit so well that he can say without a doubt that Christina is talentless? Or is he no different from stupid stans trashing certain arbitrary artists? Cause the later would take his credibility on all these videos down a notch.
 
M

Mumei

Member
Phonomezer said:
We need one for THE REAL VOICE
Click to expand...

Well that went quickly.

PhoenixDark said:
This is amazing. I want to see one for Adele
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be nearly as glowing!

The main problem with Adele is a problem that doesn't actually cause you to sound bad (and so most people don't notice it): She places her voice poorly. You aren't supposed to support your notes in your throat; it's bad for your vocal cords, bad for your throat, and bad for your singing - or at least you aren't reaching your full potential. As I understand it (and royalan or krypt can correct me on this!), you're supposed to resonate higher in the vocal tract (and ultimately place the either in the mask or in the head when you're belting) and the support is supposed to come naturally from proper breath support and posture.

Instead she's supporting entirely from the throat. That's the main thing she's being criticized for.

I think a good example is to listen to her Rolling In The Deep notes here, and then compare that to, say, Freddie Mercury's Love Is The Hero B4 or Whitney Houston's Star Spangled Banner B4, or Mariah's Vanishing B4. Can you hear a difference?

Souldriver said:
I just saw that the guy who makes all these videos that analyze female singer's voices, made a video to trash Christina Aguilera.

Makes me wonder: does he really know his shit so well that he can say without a doubt that Christina is talentless? Or is he no different from stupid stans trashing certain arbitrary artists? Cause the later would take his credibility on all these videos down a notch.
Click to expand...

Well, he's not saying that she's not talented so much as he's saying that she's very lazy and technically overrated (by the public in general and her stans, in particular, anyway). I think Christina gets more ire than most (which is to say that there's a LOT of videos on Youtube pointing out her flaws, much more so than other singers who are actually much worse than her) because there's a real contrast between her reputation and her technical ability and between what she could be as a vocalist and what she was apparently satisfied being (up till fairly recently when she started getting vocal coaching again).

And doing it in very shadey way.

royalan and I have debated this a lot, and while I think that he would say that they are giving an incomplete look at technical ability by not looking at her versatility and not giving her musicality enough credit (a subject I am agnostic on), I doubt he'd argue with most of the charges about her bad habits.
 
D

DMeisterJ

Banned
I forgot how much I liked the whole "Full Moon" era.

The songs
The show
The lies
The messiness

It all culminated in a car crash (all puns intended) that was amazing to watch.
 
O

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Ah, Brandy. I actually really liked some of Afrodisiac, particularly Focus and I Tried. Dat Timbaland production (well, I think it was...) Pity he turned shit.
 
C

Cosmic Bus

pristine morning snow
SecretMoblin said:
only if there's one for Karin Dreijer Andersson in full Fever Ray regalia
Click to expand...

Speaking of the Knife/Fever Ray, while they're working on new material, there's another Swede named Karin who's releasing an album produced by the Knife's regular crew:

Karin Park, "Restless"

Moblin, have you heard Eivør? She does some very moody and ethereal music that shares similarities with the Knife in their more subdued moments, along with occasionally performing intensely passionate Faroese folk songs. She's also a classically-trained vocalist for the Mumei's among us. ;)

"Undo Your Mind"
"Hounds of Love" cover
"Is It Cold Outside?"
"Nu Brennur Tu I Mær"
"Vøka"

The Abominable Snowman said:
Anyone else obsessed with Pop Mashups of unlikely duos? I've been watching them religiously for a LONG time, and now I think it's time that we post our favorite mashups.
Click to expand...

I won't claim it's a favorite (particularly since it's fairly recent) nor are the two songs he's working with, but this is a very good two-for-one reinterpretation/mash-up: "Feel Good Inc/Somebody That I Used to Know"
 
M

Mumei

Member
Cosmic Bus said:
Speaking of the Knife/Fever Ray, while they're working on new material, there's another Swede named Karin who's releasing an album produced by the Knife's regular crew:

Karin Park, "Restless"

Moblin, have you heard Eivør? She does some very moody and ethereal music that shares similarities with the Knife in their more subdued moments, along with occasionally performing intensely passionate Faroese folk songs. She's also a classically-trained vocalist for the Mumei's among us. ;)

"Undo Your Mind"
"Hounds of Love" cover
"Is It Cold Outside?"
"Nu Brennur Tu I Mær"
"Vøka"
[/URL]
Click to expand...

I am not Moblin - shocking, I know - but I have been listening to those songs and I loved that Hounds of Love cover in particular. I wouldn't have guessed she would sing like that after the first song.

Listening to the other three later since I have to go to bed soon~
 
Nemesis_

Nemesis_

Member
Body Talk is finally getting a full listen while I pump out my Biostatistics notes for my exam tomorrow. Then Electra Heart. <3
 
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