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[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Sup Star Trek GAF. I haven't posted in this thread before, but I pretty much grew up watching Voyager and have been following Star Trek around ever since.

Anyway, I'm here because I've been slowly working my way through TNG. I've seen a lot of random episodes on syndication and generally consider myself a fan of it, but I've never seen the whole thing, so I'm slowly working on it.

The first season is a damn wreck, though. I mean, I just saw a fucking anti-drug PSA in a Star Trek episode, and it was worked in in the most awkward way possible to boot. It was like watching a commercial. If I hadn't been watching with someone else I would have been incessantly giggling at the screen at the absurdity and hamminess of it all. I pretty much was anyway.

When can I look forward to the show becoming awesome?

 

[SeventhSon]

Season 2, The Measure of a Man

Possibly earlier if you like Elementary Dear Data, Loud as a Whisper, The Schizoid Man, or A Matter of Honor.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Season 2, The Measure of a Man

Possibly earlier if you like Elementary Dear Data, Loud as a Whisper, The Schizoid Man, or A Matter of Honor.

Excellent. We're almost done Season 1, and I wasn't sure if Season 2 or 3 was where it was considered to sort itself out.

Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Ok so.

I have all the TNG Blus now, and have been rewatching the series. I've just finished season 4, and started 5, but then realized I really don't want to watch the bad episodes.

Should I stick with it anyway and rewatch the entire series, or just watch the good ones? I've seen most of the series in the past, save a couple episodes here and there, but it's been years for some shows.

 

[G-Fex]

I don't care if it's hated

I love Hotel Royale. it's a fun episode

 

[Fuchsdh]

I don't care if it's hated

I love Hotel Royale. it's a fun episode

If we're talking about "let's take the holodeck seriously!" episodes there's nothing in TNG that can touch the stupid of DS9's "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang".

 

[G-Fex]

If we're talking about "let's take the holodeck seriously!" episodes there's nothing in TNG that can touch the stupid of DS9's "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang".

didn't see that one

 

[SeventhSon]

Excellent. We're almost done Season 1, and I wasn't sure if Season 2 or 3 was where it was considered to sort itself out.

Thanks!

You're welcome.

While season one is universally considered really bad, I think the episode you referenced, Symbiosis, is actually quite good. Star Trek has at its core examination of contemporary social issues, and drugs were a proper topic to be addressed in that era.

But even more than that, I think it's a great episode for the topic of the Prime Directive, particularly in counter point to the earlier Justice.

Season two has another Prime Directive episode in Pen Pals that is realy good, too.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

You're welcome.

While season one is universally considered really bad, I think the episode you referenced, Symbiosis, is actually quite good. Star Trek has at its core examination of contemporary social issues, and drugs were a proper topic to be addressed in that era.

But even more than that, I think it's a great episode for the topic of the Prime Directive, particularly in counter point to the earlier Justice.

Season two has another Prime Directive episode in Pen Pals that is realy good, too.

Yeah, I thought the core idea behind the episode was fine, and in that part it was one of the better episodes so far. It was just that conversation between Wesley and Tasha about drugs and why they are bad that was incredibly awkward. The actual structure of that conversation felt like an anti-drug PSA you'd watch in elementary school, not like a real conversation between two people.

Speaking of the Prime Directive, does TNG ever explicitly explain it? It seems like if you were to watch only this show, you'd be stuck inferring it. They like to say "The Prime Directive states <thing>," but I don't think I've seen them actually state it clearly; that is to say, I'm always getting interpretations and not the source they derive from.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Yeah, I thought the core idea behind the episode was fine, and in that part it was one of the better episodes so far. It was just that conversation between Wesley and Tasha about drugs and why they are bad that was incredibly awkward. The actual structure of that conversation felt like an anti-drug PSA you'd watch in elementary school, not like a real conversation between two people.

Speaking of the Prime Directive, does TNG ever explicitly explain it? It seems like if you were to watch only this show, you'd be stuck inferring it. They like to say "The Prime Directive states <thing>," but I don't think I've seen them actually state it clearly; that is to say, I'm always getting interpretations and not the source they derive from.

Yeah, I don't think it was fully explained. Actually it may have come from an unused TOS script originally...

 

[kess]

You're welcome.

While season one is universally considered really bad, I think the episode you referenced, Symbiosis, is actually quite good. Star Trek has at its core examination of contemporary social issues, and drugs were a proper topic to be addressed in that era.

But even more than that, I think it's a great episode for the topic of the Prime Directive, particularly in counter point to the earlier Justice.

Season two has another Prime Directive episode in Pen Pals that is realy good, too.

Pen Pals is probably underrated because it's such a Wesley/Pulaski episode but it actually manages to wring some usefulness and character development out of those two. Time Squared is another interesting episode from that season.

 

[IISANDERII]

Just found out that she died earlier this year. 61, from cancer. RIP

She played Picard's love interest in an episode of TNG.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I've always really liked the idea of the Prime Directive, and felt like it never got adequately used for dramatic purposes. Because in general, I totally agree with the idea that you shouldn't dick around with another culture, especially if you're more advanced, because you can't really figure out what damage you might do and there are issues of cultural hegemony. At the same time, at what point does "let them die" turn less into high-minded morals and more a way to escape the greater responsibility your power in the universe requires? Is it worth sacrificing life in the present because you don't know what that will do to the future?

I think the debate in fan discussions gets turned into a "I like this character" or "Do you believe in God?" crap. SF Debris' video on the subject is flawed along these lines. (Although I do like his point that what's "natural" is a pretty crappy defense for anything.)

"Pen Pals" is kind of funny because Picard folds like a cheap suit as soon as he hears the voice of the kid, but then again I guess that's sort of illustrating the point; it's easy to say "don't interfere" if they're all faceless people and not a scared child.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I like Kirk's "seemed like the right thing to do at the time" approach

 

[ZedIndyLil]

Any Pulaski defenders here? I'm rewatching Season 2 of TNG and she is an absolute albatross. No fault of Muldar, really... The main issue, I think, it's that she's not a good counterpoint to Picard's character. While I'm curious how Tasha Yar would have developed over time, I'm definitely glad Pulaski got the heave-ho.

 

[Henchmen21]

Any Pulaski defenders here? I'm rewatching Season 2 of TNG and she is an absolute albatross. No fault of Muldar, really... The main issue, I think, it's that she's not a good counterpoint to Picard's character. While I'm curious how Tasha Yar would have developed over time, I'm definitely glad Pulaski got the heave-ho.

Yeah me. I liked Pulaski. Much better than the bland crusher.

 

[DrForester]

Any Pulaski defenders here? I'm rewatching Season 2 of TNG and she is an absolute albatross. No fault of Muldar, really... The main issue, I think, it's that she's not a good counterpoint to Picard's character. While I'm curious how Tasha Yar would have developed over time, I'm definitely glad Pulaski got the heave-ho.

I wish they had done more than just make her a female Bones, but a female bones clone is still better than Crusher.

 

[Henchmen21]

I wish they had done more than just make her a female Bones, but a female bones clone is still better than Crusher.

Like Yar before her, they probably would have if she had stayed on for more than a season.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

Yeah me. I liked Pulaski. Much better than the bland crusher.

I wish they had done more than just make her a female Bones, but a female bones clone is still better than Crusher.

I thought Crusher got better as the seasons went on. Maybe I'm just a sucker for redheads, though The problem with the Bones thing is that the show is thrown out of balance with a Bones-like doctor. There's already enough Bones in Picard.

OK, upon reflection, that last sentence has issues...

 

[SeventhSon]

I like Pulaski, she has a nice little arc with Data through the second season. She starts her run by doubting and challenging Data's capabilities as a "human," and ends with recognizing Data's human ego and cheering him to defeat Kolrami.

 

[maharg]

Like Yar before her, they probably would have if she had stayed on for more than a season.

Yeah, Yar and Pulaski both catch a lot of shit but they were actually quite a bit less bland than the rest of the cast (for different reasons, Yar for the extremely unusual and provocative backstory and Pulaski just for not seeming like she fits into the time). My opinion of TNG has declined a lot as I get older, and nowadays I think I'd enjoy it more if it had more of those 'problems'.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Yeah, Yar and Pulaski both catch a lot of shit but they were actually quite a bit less bland than the rest of the cast (for different reasons, Yar for the extremely unusual and provocative backstory and Pulaski just for not seeming like she fits into the time). My opinion of TNG has declined a lot as I get older, and nowadays I think I'd enjoy it more if it had more of those 'problems'.

I would've liked to see Pulaski and Crusher interact, both working together as professionals and clashing as two very distinct personalities.

Regarding Yar, Yesterday's Enterprise gave us a good idea of what the show would've been like with her in it, and I feel Crosby helped make that episode as good as it was. Shame that Sela was such a stupid villain.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Yeah, Yar and Pulaski both catch a lot of shit but they were actually quite a bit less bland than the rest of the cast (for different reasons, Yar for the extremely unusual and provocative backstory and Pulaski just for not seeming like she fits into the time). My opinion of TNG has declined a lot as I get older, and nowadays I think I'd enjoy it more if it had more of those 'problems'.

My opinion has gotten more nuanced, but I think a lot of people talking about TNG versus DS9 especially are often reacting more to the format than anything else. DS9 is the more "modern" show these days, despite my opinion that its serialization often led to some horrible, horrible things (driving the Mirror Universe into the dirt, Vic, Dominion will-they-won't-they nonsense, the ultimate Pah-Wraith macguffin and religious BS.)

 

[ZedIndyLil]

My opinion has gotten more nuanced, but I think a lot of people talking about TNG versus DS9 especially are often reacting more to the format than anything else. DS9 is the more "modern" show these days, despite my opinion that its serialization often led to some horrible, horrible things (driving the Mirror Universe into the dirt, Vic, Dominion will-they-won't-they nonsense, the ultimate Pah-Wraith macguffin and religious BS.)

Yes, I feel that actually makes TNG more rewatchable nowadays. I thought DS9 was terrific at the time (particularly the pre-Defiant years), but nowadays I feel it suffers today in light of modern serialization. But at the same time, I don't want my Trek super-serialized, with endless twists, unexpected deaths, etc. My "ideal" Trek episode explores a cool sci-fi idea using well-realized and well-acted characters, and wraps it up so it can explore something different the next week.

 

[Henchmen21]

I would've liked to see Pulaski and Crusher interact, both working together as professionals and clashing as two very distinct personalities.

Regarding Yar, Yesterday's Enterprise gave us a good idea of what the show would've been like with her in it, and I feel Crosby helped make that episode as good as it was. Shame that Sela was such a stupid villain.

I think there are books out there that have Crusher and Pulaski working together but that's as close as it came.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Yes, I feel that actually makes TNG more rewatchable nowadays. I thought DS9 was terrific at the time (particularly the pre-Defiant years), but nowadays I feel it suffers today in light of modern serialization. But at the same time, I don't want my Trek super-serialized, with endless twists, unexpected deaths, etc. My "ideal" Trek episode explores a cool sci-fi idea using well-realized and well-acted characters, and wraps it up so it can explore something different the next week.

I think in terms of past sci-fi, Stargate did a really good blend of overarching plot points, recurring elements without straight serialization, and standalone episodes (until they were getting threatened by cancellation every season towards the end and things got a bit clipped.)

 

[SpoonyBard]

I think in terms of past sci-fi, Stargate did a really good blend of overarching plot points, recurring elements without straight serialization, and standalone episodes (until they were getting threatened by cancellation every season towards the end and things got a bit clipped.)

Big problem (for me) was how after they finally got rid of Goa'uld, they came up with an another race of evil aliens pretending to be gods. It felt like they had already ran out of ideas, and wanted to re-use old plot elements instead of coming up with new stuff. The space vampire stuff in Atlantis was already pushing it...

edit: bit off-topic, sorry. Maybe they didn't want to change things too much for the casual viewer

 

[Jotaka]

Hi STGaf

After reading a lot of novels from ST universe. I have this fear that all that non-canon lore from novels can get lost just because of the JJ Abrams BS movies and make impossible to a new ST series to be launched...

What do you think? Any chance to a new original series after the J. J. Abrams movies?

off-topic
I'm getting ready to read the new novel from "Department of Temporal Investigation"

 

[Fuchsdh]

Big problem (for me) was how after they finally got rid of Goa'uld, they came up with an another race of evil aliens pretending to be gods. It felt like they had already ran out of ideas, and wanted to re-use old plot elements instead of coming up with new stuff. The space vampire stuff in Atlantis was already pushing it...

edit: bit off-topic, sorry. Maybe they didn't want to change things too much for the casual viewer

Well, I do think that's part of the same problem. Prior to that, they'd always been afraid they wouldn't get time to finish their story... and then they finished it, and they were given the go-ahead for another season.

The luxury Star Trek had for a good long stretch was they knew exactly how long they had to build things out, and generally that worked for the series' favor (ironically while I think you could argue the latter part of DS9 was much better than the latter part of VOY, I think Voyager did a better job of feeling like they knew the series was ending. Whereas DS9 was spending time on the holosuite solving a fictional character's issue or playing racist baseball.

Hi STGaf

After reading a lot of novels from ST universe. I have this fear that all that non-canon lore from novels can get lost just because of the JJ Abrams BS movies and make impossible to a new ST series to be launched...

What do you think? Any chance to a new original series after the J. J. Abrams movies?

I think there's no reason not to go to the Prime universe with a continuing series, because there's plenty of room to get a fresh perspective with new people in Trek, and that has nothing to do with any "baggage" of canon. It's been almost fifteen years since we last saw the Prime universe; plenty could be going on there, and lots of new characters could be around to have their stories told.

That said who knows how the suits feel about it.

 

[Walshicus]

Is anyone playing Star Trek Attack Wing? I've just bought the starter kit (and a Galor cruiser expansion) and had a blast playing it over the weekend. I'm tempted to do an OP for it.

 

[SpoonyBard]

The luxury Star Trek had for a good long stretch was they knew exactly how long they had to build things out, and generally that worked for the series' favor (ironically while I think you could argue the latter part of DS9 was much better than the latter part of VOY, I think Voyager did a better job of feeling like they knew the series was ending. Whereas DS9 was spending time on the holosuite solving a fictional character's issue or playing racist baseball.

I'd go as far as say the last season of Voy was better than the last season of DS9. An unpopular opinion in these parts, I'm sure. And Voyager season 7 had it's problems too... like the mid-season two-parter Workforce really not being that great, and a lot of mediocre episodes between the good ones. But the last season of DS9 was very anti-climatic when it came to the big plot points, and a lot of time was spent on the new Dax in addition of the silly holosuite stuff.

 

[FeenixRising]

I would pay good money for a DS9 blu ray set

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'd go as far as say the last season of Voy was better than the last season of DS9. An unpopular opinion in these parts, I'm sure. And Voyager season 7 had it's problems too... like the mid-season two-parter Workforce really not being that great, and a lot of mediocre episodes between the good ones. But the last season of DS9 was very anti-climatic when it came to the big plot points, and a lot of time was spent on the new Dax in addition of the silly holosuite stuff.

I do like a lot about Voyager, although it seems like a lot of the time when I find someone who defends Voyager (a la Random Trek) it's for reasons I find baffling, like Janeway. The series was good *in spite of* the stuff they did with Janeway most of the time, not *because* of it.

I think DS9 would have been better without Ezri entirely. It was far too late in the series to try and cram in a new character when things should have been rapidly coming to a head.

Is anyone playing Star Trek Attack Wing? I've just bought the starter kit (and a Galor cruiser expansion) and had a blast playing it over the weekend. I'm tempted to do an OP for it.

Never heard about it until you just mentioned it Never actually played any of the ActionClix games, I'd only seen them before with Halo. Do they all play differently depending on the franchise, or is it a core set of rules?

 

[maharg]

I think DS9 would have been better without Ezri entirely. It was far too late in the series to try and cram in a new character when things should have been rapidly coming to a head.

There really wasn't much to come to a head on, though. I don't really think there was much more they could do with the Dominion War than what they actually did. There was plenty of room for other stuff, it's just the other stuff was always kind of inane in DS9.

 

[Fuchsdh]

There really wasn't much to come to a head on, though. I don't really think there was much more they could do with the Dominion War than what they actually did. There was plenty of room for other stuff, it's just the other stuff was always kind of inane in DS9.

The first thing I thought of reading that was "Move Along Home". The second was "Rivals".

Oof.

 

[Wellscha]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

Lt. Tasha Yar is dead.

Spoiler

I'm in total shock. I think I need a break, I have no desire to watch the next episode, at least til I calm down a bit.

 

[FeenixRising]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

Lt. Tasha Yar is dead.

Spoiler

I'm in total shock. I think I need a break, I have no desire to watch the next episode, at least til I calm down a bit.

This is your first watch through?? Lucky you.

 

[SeventhSon]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

Lt. Tasha Yar is dead.

Spoiler

I'm in total shock. I think I need a break, I have no desire to watch the next episode, at least til I calm down a bit.

Now go back and watch the previous episode, and look for

Spoiler

Denise Crosby waving good-bye to the camera.

You'll soon see the good in this:

Spoiler

Worf is given a bigger role and becomes one of the best Trek characters ever.

 

[Walshicus]

I thought for a second that Denise Crosby had passed away!

 

[Deleted member 102362]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

Lt. Tasha Yar is dead.

Spoiler

I'm in total shock. I think I need a break, I have no desire to watch the next episode, at least til I calm down a bit.

You're gonna love season 3.

 

[Wellscha]

Took me a while to calm down. Watched a few episodes of TNG S2;

Spoiler

Crusher

is not there, Troi's hairdo, and Riker's beard.. Yeah, it's going to take a few episodes to adjust to that.

The

Spoiler

new doctor

looks like my friend's mom, which is completely creepy, and disturbing.

Spoiler

Tasha

 

[Rhomega Beta]

Took me a while to calm down. Watched a few episodes of TNG S2;

Spoiler

Crusher

is not there, Troi's hairdo, and Riker's beard.. Yeah, it's going to take a few episodes to adjust to that.

The

Spoiler

new doctor

looks like my friend's mom, which is completely creepy, and disturbing.

I don't think mentioning Dr. Pulaski is going to hurt anyway. After all, she pretty much defined Season 2, aside from Riker's beard and

Spoiler

the Borg

 

[SeventhSon]

Took me a while to calm down. Watched a few episodes of TNG S2;

Spoiler

Crusher

is not there, Troi's hairdo, and Riker's beard.. Yeah, it's going to take a few episodes to adjust to that.

The

Spoiler

new doctor

looks like my friend's mom, which is completely creepy, and disturbing.

Spoiler

Tasha

Here's Diana Muldaur from TOS

 

[Stumpokapow]

Here's Diana Muldaur from TOS

Wow, for a hundred year time difference between that and TNG she aged pretty well

 

[Henchmen21]

Wow, for a hundred year time difference between that and TNG she aged pretty well

You do know that those are different characters?

 

[Wellscha]

Here's Diana Muldaur from TOS

Not sure what your point is.

Anyway, I watched 10 episodes ofe TNG S2. So far, I like it

Spoiler

Boo the Beard and the Hairdo

. I have a question by the way, is there a novel that would shed more light on the time between

Spoiler

Data's discovery til his Enterprise assignment (including the time in Star fleet academy)

?

 

[Wellscha]

Man,

Spoiler

Lt. Selara

is gorgeous.

 

[googleplex]

Not sure what your point is.

Anyway, I watched 10 episodes ofe TNG S2. So far, I like it

Spoiler

Boo the Beard and the Hairdo

. I have a question by the way, is there a novel that would shed more light on the time between

Spoiler

Data's discovery til his Enterprise assignment (including the time in Star fleet academy)

?

Beard Riker is best Riker.


Also it's time for more Trek on TV. I'm ready for quality Sci-fi Terk. I'm sick of stupid action movie Trek.

 

[firehawk12]

Not sure what your point is.

Anyway, I watched 10 episodes ofe TNG S2. So far, I like it

Spoiler

Boo the Beard and the Hairdo

. I have a question by the way, is there a novel that would shed more light on the time between

Spoiler

Data's discovery til his Enterprise assignment (including the time in Star fleet academy)

?

There's the TNG Starfleet Academy series:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Secret_of_the_Lizard_People
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mystery_of_the_Missing_Crew
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Loyalties
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Deceptions

I have no idea what the books are like though. The series is only notable for the Peter David books where he basically created half the cast of the New Frontier series.

I will say, The Best and the Brightest is worth reading if you get to the episode Lower Decks and you liked that concept.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Okay, my full watch through of everything stalled with ST6 for some reason. I finally watched it two nights ago and loved it. Very emotional at the end.

Anyway, I'm ready to start TNG now. I need clarification: at one time it was HD remastered on Amazon Prime, but not on Netflix. Is that still the case? And are these remastered HD episodes the same as what's on the Blu Rays?