I've held this opinion since I was a little Man God and everytime I rewatch the series I come to the same conclusion. Season 2 is DIRE besides a couple of really great episodes. Season 3 though is great.
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
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I've held this opinion since I was a little Man God and everytime I rewatch the series I come to the same conclusion. Season 2 is DIRE besides a couple of really great episodes. Season 3 though is great.
SpoonyBard
Banned
I feel so old. I remember when TOS was 25 years old, and indeed playing the brilliant Star Trek 25th Anniversary adventure game.
Apologies to all who are even older...
IIRC, someone with connections recently said that DS9 on Bluray is basically "now or never", and that the people in charge really want to do it, but they don't know if they can get the math working well enough to give themselves an excuse to do it.
Basically, TOS on Bluray was a big risk, but they figured it had a chance, so they took that bet and it paid off. TNG on Bluray was an even bigger risk, but they gambled and won again.
DS9 on Bluray is a bigger risk than TNG, because DS9 got smaller ratings and has fewer mainstream fans. The hardcore fans are reliable, but they tend to like both shows and there aren't enough hardcore fans to make either show profitable. DS9 needs support from large numbers of nostalgic casuals in order to work. So DS9 has the same costs to produce on Bluray as TNG, but it will obviously make less money, and the rewards for the risk of TNG were already small.
Apparently the best hope for DS9 is for TNG to earn some more money. If you're on the fence about buying TNG, now is probably a good time to do it. Don't go out of your way to buy two. It won't make a difference, and there's no sense in flushing your money down a toilet to try and send a message.
Escape Goat
Member
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Buy the 4 Enterprise blu-ray sets and send Paramount a picture of them saying "This is shit, but I want DS9"
Are all of the TNG seasons out on bluray yet?
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, what you're referencing is the Digital Bits article I linked earlier in this thread.
7 will be out in December.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I just think the Star Trek EU has about as much baggage as the Star Wars EU, so jettisoning it now would be good if they ever go back to it.
And I say that as someone who followed the Calhoun books. lol
JoshuaJSlone
Member
No doubt if any official movie/show were to return to the Prime universe all the novel continuity would be ignored--so I kind of like that they're willing to go crazy while they have the chance.
Yeah, I think you're right. And that's the way it should be, honestly. I mean, I actually like some of the books I've read (especially that Destiny trilogy) -- and I want them to go nuts with it -- but you've got to chuck them if/when the show returns to TV.
Agreed. EU stuff would have to be ignored if the prime universe ever got revisited.
If I was writing said prime universe show the first episode should open with Q explaining to the audience why this isn't the JJ universe
JoshuaJSlone
Member
While any of the relevant shows were active, the books never did anything in a cohesive way--they were all meant as one-off "episodes" that you'd never hear about the events of again, just like some random episode of a show. Nothing really important ever happened, so it's not like there would be a way of telling whether a book's events had happened or not.
Without the constraints of the shows dictating what goes on in the universe, they've been free to add regular characters, give them offspring, kill people off (or un-kill them), create interstellar alliances, introduce technological advancements. So the next time it's ignored, something will actually be lost.
Without the constraints of the shows dictating what goes on in the universe, they've been free to add regular characters, give them offspring, kill people off (or un-kill them), create interstellar alliances, introduce technological advancements. So the next time it's ignored, something will actually be lost.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Well, even before the books became "new seasons" of the shows, they were doing massive events and crossovers and such. The books were developing large continuities never contradicted the shows but still relied on you reading 10 books from each series in order to get a complete story.
I just realized, it was ran much like comic books... or the Marvel Cinematic Universe, to use a more contemporary example.
Star Trek Online uses elements and plots from the books, so like Star Wars, there is an attempt to keep it all consistent.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
STO uses some elements from the books but not in quite the same way or in the same timeframe--in fact the tie-in novel for it explicitly set it in a different universe by having a character be kind of insane with conflicting memories from other timelines and mentioning things like the events of the Destiny books and the JJ movies.
Yeah, that's the one. I was sure I had seen it in here, but couldn't quite find it.
Plus, a lot of book characters and ships turn up as well.
ZedIndyLil
Member
I've never seen the Herman's Head episode of TNG with the deaf negotiator before. I think it's making my short list for silliest episode ever.
Henchmen21
Banned
I don't know what's weirder, that you don't like "Loud As A Whisper" or that you mentioned Herman's Head.
Edit: Herman's Head does actually have a connection to Trek. The girl who played Herman's sensitive side was also the first Vorta on DS9
SeventhSon
Member
It's one of the best of the series.
ZedIndyLil
Member
Ha! I never said I didn't LIKE it
It's a wee bit goofy though, particularly the Greek chorus which get eliminated in rather gruesome fashion. Good message, though.SeventhSon
Member
Ha! I never said I didn't LIKE it
Trivia: the woman chorus member is John de Lancie's wife
It feels a bit heretical to say but I never liked that one.
SpoonyBard
Banned
I think it's an okay episode, not bad one, but nowhere near the top in my opinion. There's some silly things that came to mind. Firstly, the whole 3 person chorus was killed in one shot... that looked unlikely. And some sloppy acting in that episode... "No, no, never. Death first!" and "We need you!" lines spring to mind.
I dunno, I've come around lately on the second season. Yeah, it's loaded like stuff like Up The Long Ladder, but even the crapola like the first episode is starting to move the series forward. The Child had some pretty dire moments, but it also introduced Guinan.
Q Who and Measure of a Man are the episodes everyone talks about, but Time Squared, The Emissary, Peak Performance and Pen Pals are better than most episodes from the first season, and the latter actually manages to wring some character development out of Wesley and Pulaski.
SpoonyBard
Banned
I also think The Schizoid Man is a pretty good episode (although there was some very weak acting when they were down on the planet). And The Royale is good fun.
I love the fact that the actor who plays the Great Nagus is in Michael Moores documentary about capitalism, talking about how he dislikes the concept of free enterprise.
Besides the already mentioned "Schizoid Man," "Elementary, Dear Data" is also good in that it sets up the mind bending season 6 episode "Ship in a Bottle."
TNG Season 7 hits Blu-Ray December 2, as will a separate release solely for All Good Things put together as one long movie (with a documentary). I really wish they did a limited theatrical showing for at least this like they did with episodes from the first few seasons, especially after seeing Best of Both Worlds in theater.
http://www.startrek.com/article/two-new-trek-blu-rays-available-december-2
http://www.startrek.com/article/two-new-trek-blu-rays-available-december-2
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I was also hoping for a theatrical showing of All Good Things...
I wonder why they stopped those. Anecdotally, the ones I was at were pretty well-attended.
I think they just wouldn't have gotten enough ticket sales from the screenings, which is understandable.
Would be awesome to see it up on the big screen though.
Not a bad idea, I always thought of the two-part episodes more as individual movies than tv episodes, and I'd consider All Good Things and The Best of Both Worlds better than all but a few of the movies in that sense. I'll definitely pick this up when it releases.
After completing a skimming of my favorite DS9 episodes, I decided to start rewatching Voyager instead of going through TNG and Enterprise. I haven't seen it in years and I forgot how truly awful this show starts out (not that it gets all that much better). It's funny because I know a few people who swear Voyager is the best of the shows.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It's a shitty money making scheme. Of course, I've bought all the single movie releases, so I'm part of the problem.
Annnnd I just saw it's releasing for almost $30. Maybe I won't be getting it after all.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Amazon or someone will usually deep discount both the set and the individual movie the day of release. Then the prices are jacked up to MSRP for some reason.
That's been coming up a lot recently on Random Trek, and I can only attribute it to people who wanted a women captain, and people for whom Voyager was their first Trek series. There are certainly positives to it (honestly, as much as we bag on all the Star Trek series, I'd rather be watching mediocre episodes of Voyager and Enterprise 'till the day I died compared to some of the truly awful TV of past, present, and future) but I think those two biases kind of override everything else, which is understable, if not critical (same thing goes for people who cite TNG and TOS, often starting with "when I was a kid...")
Ha! I never said I didn't LIKE it
Just got around to seeing that episode. It's certainly interesting, and yeah, S1-2 TNG has some of the more gruesome FX in Star Trek, now that I think about it
I think it ultimately didn't do much with its material, though. The ending feels sort of like it's straddling a too-pat, everyone learns a lesson ending, and one that's a bit more open-ended (they've made a breakthrough, but the outcome is far from certain.)
Henchmen21
Banned
So apparently there's a character in Skyrim with the name "Temba Wide-Arms"
Star Trek The Motion Picture
Well, the first Trek film is still as problematic as I remember it, with the core of a decent story drowned out by excessive scale model porn and extremely long special effects sequences. Yeah a lot of that was out of director Robert Wise's control, but we still judge movies on the end results and not how they handled production issues. The story really just takes way too long to get going, they don't even reach the cloud until over 50 minutes into the movie. And even though it had such a large budget, the set and costume design isn't as well-realized as in later films.
I should probably try to find the director's cut at some point since it supposedly fixes a number of issues.
A movie about. This is the most anime Star Trek has ever gotten. Also, the retroactive creepiness ofa space probe becoming a cute girl who wants to "become one" with its creatorStephen Collins character wanting to merge with an entity that Spock says is like a child.
Well, the first Trek film is still as problematic as I remember it, with the core of a decent story drowned out by excessive scale model porn and extremely long special effects sequences. Yeah a lot of that was out of director Robert Wise's control, but we still judge movies on the end results and not how they handled production issues. The story really just takes way too long to get going, they don't even reach the cloud until over 50 minutes into the movie. And even though it had such a large budget, the set and costume design isn't as well-realized as in later films.
I should probably try to find the director's cut at some point since it supposedly fixes a number of issues.
Randy Lanzarote
Member
I'm still waiting for the follow-up. Can't believe they've left us hanging for over 26 years!
Cryptic has your back in Star Trek Online; pretty cool storyline involving the Vaadwaur, Neural Parasites, the aliens from Schisms and The Silent Enemy and the Iconians. Oh, and Sela.
The directors cut fixes a lot of issues, for sure. But it's actually still a bit longer than the original cut, and that's probably the biggest unresolved issue. Chop 20-30 minutes off the directors cut and you've probably got a much more solid film.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Yeah, maybe, but cutting too many effect shots and character scenes would ruin the pacing of the movie. Maybe the wormhole sequence could have been cut, as it doesn't really affect the outcome of anything (expect shows us that Kirk doesn't know the ship fully). But other than that I'm not sure.... it's a slow moving movie, and it can't be changed very easily.
The follow-up is the Borg. In the original plan they were the Borg, but take them as pilot fish instead. The signal they sent is what brings the Borg to the alpha quadrant.
Well, if I ever had time I'd sit down at it and take a try. I do think you're right that you can't just shorten scenes and make it a faster-paced film, but there's plenty that can be shortened without eating into the character bits (I mean, cut three minutes off the Enterprise flyover and no one would miss it, you can cleanly truncate Goldsmith's score there.)