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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN

F

funkystudent

Member
I really did not like S3 of Enterprise.

Archers over acting + the grim dark post 9/11 riff was just too much for me.


S4 was great though and was basically exactly what I wanted in terms of stories and tone from that series. If only we got more of that. :(
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I still think S4 is terrible, because Manny Coto went full fanboy and turned it into a fanservice season.

I haven't seen it since it aired, but in my memory it is if someone made a 24 hour version of Star Trek Into Darkness.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
firehawk12 said:
I still think S4 is terrible, because Manny Coto went full fanboy and turned it into a fanservice season.

I haven't seen it since it aired, but in my memory it is if someone made a 24 hour version of Star Trek Into Darkness.
Click to expand...

It was like Into Darkness but handled with some level of care and understanding of the lore.


But yeah if you take the Brent Spinder episodes and the Mirror universe episodes that series is basically 50% pure Trek fan service.

Its like they knew they only had this run left so the crazier Trek fanboys on the team said "Fuck it. This is our last shot. I have been sitting on this idea on why the TOS Klingons and the TNG Klingons look completely different since I was in high school and this is my last shot. Lets do it! And lets do some Khan foreshadowing while we are at it. Oh and get Brent Spinder on the phone!"
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
God forbid they have some fun with it all. A decade+ of the franchise being run by people who didn't even really like Star Trek all that much made it just what the doctor ordered.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
funkystudent said:
It was like Into Darkness but handled with some level of care and understanding of the lore.
Click to expand...
I suppose I can buy that.

maharg said:
God forbid they have some fun with it all. A decade+ of the franchise being run by people who didn't even really like Star Trek all that much made it just what the doctor ordered.
Click to expand...
I just remember feeling that it was insufferable as the season progressed. Relics, Unification, Trials and Tribble-ations, and Flashback were fun episodes because they were special one off episodes. But I think Enterprise S4 is about as bad as when Barclay kept showing up on Star Trek Voyager because they couldn't think of anything else better to do with the main cast of the show.

You'd think a show about the very first starship in Starfleet history would give you lots of material to work with without drawing from the fanservice well over and over again.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
It was a no-win situation. If they came up with their own stuff, it's "why didn't we hear about this before, then?" If they did stuff about things we'd seen before, it's "what's all this fanservice nonsense?" If they didn't do either and just went exploring, it was "I thought this was supposed to be a prequel, why aren't we seeing the birth of the federation?"
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
S4 was alright, I don't think it was great, but it certainly was better than what we had been getting. Kind of the TNG S2. I stand by what I've said previously, that Enterprise at it's best was good, but never great. Even Voyager managed greatness occasionally.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
Sir Fragula said:
... what?
Click to expand...

Russal T Davis who was in charge of the relaunch of Dr Who had talks with the Trek people about a cross over before Enterprise was cancelled.

I dont think the talks reached a serious level by the time they got canned so I bet it wouldn't have happened by S5 if it was going to happen at all. And if anything I bet it would have been a short that aired as part of some charity thing or something if it did happen and wouldnt have been a full hour episode.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
I'd feel bad for the Doctor. He woulda' ended up on the worst Enterprise :)

Speaking of whic, though, I've just gotten through Season 1 of TNG. I have to say… it's not as bad as I thought it would be (I'd seen snippets of it bit never the whole season.) Sure, Wesley is annoying, Picard's ornery, and they don't know what to do with Troi besides have her there for some cleavage and useless introspection, but they have some solid stuff in there, and while I can see the argument of "Roddenberry wanted people to be good and drama-free," I think there's enough interpersonal friction to make you feel like these are still real people. It's obviously not up to snuff with later seasons but it's not horrible either.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
Was S1 of TNG seen as good at the time it aired? I mean I guess its just more TOS style trek and for the time thats kind of what people wanted.

Its only looking back that those early seasons stand out and look extra rough.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
firehawk12 said:
But I think Enterprise S4 is about as bad as when Barclay kept showing up on Star Trek Voyager because they couldn't think of anything else better to do with the main cast of the show.
Click to expand...

I stopped watching Voyager, how in the world did they explain Barclay showing up? Some sort of inter-dimensional time-travel babble-babble?


funkystudent said:
Was S1 of TNG seen as good at the time it aired? I mean I guess its just more TOS style trek and for the time thats kind of what people wanted.

Its only looking back that those early seasons stand out and look extra rough.
Click to expand...

I think the fact that we were thrilled to actually have a Star Trek series on TV again nearly 20 years after TOS generated enough good will with the fans to see us through the growing pains of the show. Like, "It may not be great, but it's Star Trek!"
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
Lucky Forward said:
I stopped watching Voyager, how in the world did they explain Barclay showing up? Some sort of inter-dimensional time-travel babble-babble?
Click to expand...

Barclay didn't show up on Voyager the ship, he was on the show. He was basically the last believer in getting Voyager home in Starfleet, so was the only one still actively working on trying to get them home, iirc.

I actually think that's kind of a cute idea and fits Barclay pretty well.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Lucky Forward said:
I stopped watching Voyager, how in the world did they explain Barclay showing up? Some sort of inter-dimensional time-travel babble-babble?




I think the fact that we were thrilled to actually have a Star Trek series on TV again nearly 20 years after TOS generated enough good will with the fans to see us through the growing pains of the show. Like, "It may not be great, but it's Star Trek!"
Click to expand...
in the late seasons of Voyager they got the ability to communicate with the Alpha Quadrant and Barklay was on the team communicating with them.
 
S

SpoonyBard

Banned
The Barclay Votager eps were all pretty good, or at least interesting, if I remember correctly. But at the same time it was kind of shame that a rarely seen TNG character was so much more interesting than most of the Voyager cast combined. Even Troi was good in Voyager.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
maharg said:
Barclay didn't show up on Voyager the ship, he was on the show. He was basically the last believer in getting Voyager home in Starfleet, so was the only one still actively working on trying to get them home, iirc.

I actually think that's kind of a cute idea and fits Barclay pretty well.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's surprisingly reasonable.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
maharg said:
Barclay didn't show up on Voyager the ship, he was on the show. He was basically the last believer in getting Voyager home in Starfleet, so was the only one still actively working on trying to get them home, iirc.

I actually think that's kind of a cute idea and fits Barclay pretty well.
Click to expand...
I think the final straw for me was when they brought in Troi to counsel him.

Htown said:
It was a no-win situation. If they came up with their own stuff, it's "why didn't we hear about this before, then?" If they did stuff about things we'd seen before, it's "what's all this fanservice nonsense?" If they didn't do either and just went exploring, it was "I thought this was supposed to be a prequel, why aren't we seeing the birth of the federation?"
Click to expand...
I think drip feeding the stuff was okay... and I even didn't mind the Borg showing up. But it was just so much in one season that it felt like watching the Star Trek Greatest Hits rather than something original.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
firehawk12 said:
I think the final straw for me was when they brought in Troi to counsel him.
Click to expand...
What was interesting was it was one of the few times we ever saw Troi counsel anyone… and she almost immediately got sick of the Doctor and Zimmerman and gave up :)

Also, that is the only UPN promo I really recall, because they butchered Troi's line about asking for leave to suggest that Picard was going to be in the episode. Gotta' goose those ratings somehow!
firehawk12 said:
I think drip feeding the stuff was okay... and I even didn't mind the Borg showing up. But it was just so much in one season that it felt like watching the Star Trek Greatest Hits rather than something original.
Click to expand...
Really it would have been so much better if that kind of linkage had been going on throughout the series. I do understand people who felt like it was all too much lumped in at the last season (especially since they'd managed to do a decent job striking out and creating something different with the third season… and then Space Alien Nazis.)
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Fuchsdh said:
Also, that is the only UPN promo I really recall, because they butchered Troi's line about asking for leave to suggest that Picard was going to be in the episode. Gotta' goose those ratings somehow!
Click to expand...
It's been ages since I thought about the ratings, but I assume it didn't really work. lol

Really it would have been so much better if that kind of linkage had been going on throughout the series. I do understand people who felt like it was all too much lumped in at the last season (especially since they'd managed to do a decent job striking out and creating something different with the third season… and then Space Alien Nazis.)
Click to expand...
That's Braga and his terrible season structure. Every season of Voyager was like that too, with some stupid cliffhanger to try to make things "exciting". It's like he didn't understand why Best of Both Worlds was such an amazing event and wrote dumb cliffhangers for the sake of having them. I will say, I feel bad for Manny Coto in that respect, because he had to fix that garbage in S4.
 
K

kess

Member
https://twitter.com/reneauberjonois/status/513851391635234816/photo/1

ByGRHgrCYAEGcjE.jpg
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
firehawk12 said:
It's been ages since I thought about the ratings, but I assume it didn't really work. lol


That's Braga and his terrible season structure. Every season of Voyager was like that too, with some stupid cliffhanger to try to make things "exciting". It's like he didn't understand why Best of Both Worlds was such an amazing event and wrote dumb cliffhangers for the sake of having them. I will say, I feel bad for Manny Coto in that respect, because he had to fix that garbage in S4.
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair to Braga, I don't think the "cliffhanger!" disease is unique to him. In fact by my rough estimate Voyager had no more or less cliffhanger finales than TNG, DS9, or ENT (in fact they were all fairly comparable.)

The only caveat is that unlike TNG and Voyager, DS9's finales were generally more about setting up the next season rather than direct story continuations; "The Jem'Hadar" is a standalone that leads into the "Search" two-parter, and the end of season 3 sets up "Apocalypse Rising" and the changeling threat. I'd say only the sixth season finale really fits in the same mold as the other series with a clear "we're gonna' resolve this next episode next year guys" feel. Using them sparingly does seem to be a wise plan, however.
 
F

FeenixRising

Banned
After having to clear my head of that Enterprise mess and rewatching DS9 for the umpteenth time... I know this question has been asked many times... But should another trek series happen, where or when does it take place?

29th century? Temporal wars and such?

Post Voyager in the late 24th century, revamping its design language so the Trek reboots which take place 100 years in the past doesn't look more advanced?

Terran Empire?
 
Darkmakaimura

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
So, the Shat coming back for Star Trek 3? Eh, he might need to lose some weight for that, methinks.
 
S

SpoonyBard

Banned
FeenixRising said:
After having to clear my head of that Enterprise mess and rewatching DS9 for the umpteenth time... I know this question has been asked many times... But should another trek series happen, where or when does it take place?

29th century? Temporal wars and such?

Post Voyager in the late 24th century, revamping its design language so the Trek reboots which take place 100 years in the past doesn't look more advanced?

Terran Empire?
Click to expand...

Personally I'd like to see a series starting 10 years after Voyager or Nemesis. No too many new technologies and we could get realistic cameos from familar characters. Voyager had a bit too many technological breakthroughs though, and DS9 played fast and loose with established political situations... I'd like to return to classic cold war type situation of TOS and TNG, where tension was high, and keeping the peace was an important task for the crew of Enterprise.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
SpoonyBard said:
Personally I'd like to see a series starting 10 years after Voyager or Nemesis. No too many new technologies and we could get realistic cameos from familar characters. Voyager had a bit too many technological breakthroughs though, and DS9 played fast and loose with established political situations... I'd like to return to classic cold war type situation of TOS and TNG, where tension was high, and keeping the peace was an important task for the crew of Enterprise.
Click to expand...

For me it makes sense to keep the current timeline… assuming a series or movie came out next year that'd be 13 years since Nemesis (christ) so it'd be 2392.

It really doesn't matter when you set it as long as you really work on the setting. For me something interesting about a post-Dominion War is we'd see the fallout and cultural shifts. I'd imagine it would have been something like WWI—a generation scarred by a war in which billions died. And what would they think of the generation after them who would be officers by that point?

I don't think I'd want another war storyline, but I agree that dealing with increased tensions or shifting alliances would be an interesting backdrop to tell the stories, even if it only crops up occasionally.

As for the crew… I was kind of thinking about how each series has generally tried to do something different with their captains. I think it would be interesting to cast a young person as the captain—maybe someone who might have rose through the ranks too fast or might not have the experience to go along with the command. It could just result in an infuriating character, but I think there would be a lot of opportunities for friction and for growth over the series. When we saw Kirk he was basically "done"… but to see how someone becomes that kind of leader would be fascinating to me.

Darkmakaimura said:
So, the Shat coming back for Star Trek 3? Eh, he might need to lose some weight for that, methinks.
Click to expand...

I would have brought him back long ago to play a Shatnerian alien or something. Why does he have to be Kirk?
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
FeenixRising said:
After having to clear my head of that Enterprise mess and rewatching DS9 for the umpteenth time... I know this question has been asked many times... But should another trek series happen, where or when does it take place?

29th century? Temporal wars and such?

Post Voyager in the late 24th century, revamping its design language so the Trek reboots which take place 100 years in the past doesn't look more advanced?

Terran Empire?
Click to expand...

I'd like a post Nemesis Enterprise-F series.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Lord, early TNG was awful.

The episode where Wesley gets sentenced to death for falling on some flowers is on right now.
 
B

BorganXI

Member
I don't think they would go for a new series in the Prime universe.

For those that have read the books, maybe something along the lines of SCE or DTI series would be interesting if they stuck to the Prime verse.

I think if they were to launch a new series, and that's probably a big if, it would a re-imagining of the JJ verse with a Next Gen type of series. Maybe an Enterprise A B or C series tho.

Vulcan is gone, Section 31 is a big thing already, Khan is still there. JJ verse borg? Q? Could be some potential.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
The books took the Star Trek universe into weird places, with the Romulans forming a new alliance with the Cardassians or something, while the Federation deals with a massive Borg invasion featuring 20 Borg cubes.

They could probably just retcon all of that if they ever wanted to do a proper sequel. Along with the Enteprise-J design from Enterprise. lol

Fuchsdh said:
Well, to be fair to Braga, I don't think the "cliffhanger!" disease is unique to him. In fact by my rough estimate Voyager had no more or less cliffhanger finales than TNG, DS9, or ENT (in fact they were all fairly comparable.)

The only caveat is that unlike TNG and Voyager, DS9's finales were generally more about setting up the next season rather than direct story continuations; "The Jem'Hadar" is a standalone that leads into the "Search" two-parter, and the end of season 3 sets up "Apocalypse Rising" and the changeling threat. I'd say only the sixth season finale really fits in the same mold as the other series with a clear "we're gonna' resolve this next episode next year guys" feel. Using them sparingly does seem to be a wise plan, however.
Click to expand...
TNG's were random, but they were chasing Best of Both Worlds and, at that point, it was still somewhat novel.

The problem with Voyager and Enterprise was that they were pulling from a 20 year old playbook that every had moved on from - an almost completely episodic series with cliffhanger bookends that immediately resolved themselves the following season. They were just as irrelevant as the normal episodes in the series and it felt like they were just jerking the audience's chains over and over again.
 
B

BorganXI

Member
firehawk12 said:
The books took the Star Trek universe into weird places, with the Romulans forming a new alliance with the Cardassians or something, while the Federation deals with a massive Borg invasion featuring 20 Borg cubes.
Click to expand...

The Destiny trilogy is probably the best Star Trek books in a long time.
Basically they dealt with the Borg menace once and for all. You find out the origin of the Borg and they go on an all out assault on the Federation.
The Borg destroy hundreds of worlds, 5 Billion Lives, and nearly wiped out the Federation.

Then the Typhon Pact series started and had a few decent stories. The Gorn, Romulans, Breen, Tzenkethi, and Tholians make their own "Federation" and events lead to Bacco's assisination, Kira's sacrifice, the destruction of DS9.

The recent Trilogy and aftermath of bringing Data and Lal back to life I thought was really good too.

Then you have the Voyager series dealing with Janeway being brought back to life at the hands of Q Jr.

So there has been quite a bit brewing in the Prime universe. They aren't quite to the destruction of Romulus and Spocks disappearance in their timeline, that led to JJ trek. I'm sure that's something they will have to start building up to.
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
BorganXI said:
The Destiny trilogy is probably the best Star Trek books in a long time.
Basically they dealt with the Borg menace once and for all. You find out the origin of the Borg and they go on an all out assault on the Federation.
The Borg destroy hundreds of worlds, 5 Billion Lives, and nearly wiped out the Federation.

Then the Typhon Pact series started and had a few decent stories. The Gorn, Romulans, Breen, Tzenkethi, and Tholians make their own "Federation" and events lead to Bacco's assisination, Kira's sacrifice, the destruction of DS9.

The recent Trilogy and aftermath of bringing Data and Lal back to life I thought was really good too.

Then you have the Voyager series dealing with Janeway being brought back to life at the hands of Q Jr.

So there has been quite a bit brewing in the Prime universe. They aren't quite to the destruction of Romulus and Spocks disappearance in their timeline, that led to JJ trek. I'm sure that's something they will have to start building up to.
Click to expand...

I read one book in the Borg war series.
Ezri was in command of a starship and working with Picard.
It was incredibly dumb.
But it seems everyone who dies gets resurrected
so theres no integrity to this franchise anymore.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Escape Goat said:
I read one book in the Borg war series.
Ezri was in command of a starship and working with Picard.
It was incredibly dumb.
But it seems everyone who dies gets resurrected
so theres no integrity to this franchise anymore.
Click to expand...

There was never any integrity to the EU. And that's a good thing in my book. You can ignore the bad stuff, like the stuff you like. I found Peter David's Star Trek: New Frontier quite good, and I loved some of the Diane Duane classic stuff (it gets a bit Mary Sue-ish but I still enjoyed "Battlestations!" and "Dreadnought!" immensely.)
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
DrForester said:
No way. Season 2 is much better than Season 1. Not great, but season 2 had stuff like Q-Who and Measures of a Man.
Click to expand...

Indeed. It has higher highs. Season 1 also has lower lows with Code of Honor. but the average quality of episodes is higher in season 1, which is really saying something. Season 2's finale is also a god damn clip show.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Man God said:
Indeed. It has higher highs. Season 1 also has lower lows with Code of Honor. but the average quality of episodes is higher in season 1, which is really saying something. Season 2's finale is also a god damn clip show.
Click to expand...

No way. There are only something like 4 episodes worth watching in the entire first season.
 
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