firehawk12
Subete no aware
No. Even in a joking manner, no.lol
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
In theory, Kim's naïveté would have mattered outside of making him hopeless around women, who would either reject his advances.... or die!
I admit you don't really know going into a show what characters are going to morph into, but Voyager's ensemble just has a lot more dead weight. Troi and Crusher don't get much to do, and Worf gets kicked around constantly, but they don't feel as extraneous as Kim or Kes do.
I admit you don't really know going into a show what characters are going to morph into, but Voyager's ensemble just has a lot more dead weight. Troi and Crusher don't get much to do, and Worf gets kicked around constantly, but they don't feel as extraneous as Kim or Kes do.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
He was basically used as the Kirkian-manslut on the show, for the times when Janeway wasn't having sex with a hologram or an alien.
The weird thing is that they actually had Kim complain about it in show when he complains about being an ensign for seven years, but they never really solve the problem whatsoever. He's... the Wesley Crusher of Voyager, but with even less to do.
Just finished also. The finale doesn't exactly help to prevent that feeling
It wasn't as strong an episode as, say, "All Good Things...", but those scenes with Bashir and O'Brien hit me pretty hard. Many of the characters were saying goodbye at the end, and I felt like I was too.
Looks like most of the Star Trek films are gone from Netflix again, so maybe this is a good time to take a little break and wait for my Defiant model to show up.
ThLunarian
Member
Just finished also. The finale doesn't exactly help to prevent that feeling
I liked the DS9 relaunch. It's a series of books that are collectively considered as seasons 8 and 9 of DS9 by many fans.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine_relaunch
There's a list of books in that link. The first one is basically a memoir by Garak that recounts his childhood on Cardassia while juxtaposing it with the present day, where he is trying to rebuild a Cardassia that was ruined by the Dominion. It's called "A Stitch in Time" and it was written by Andrew Robinson (the actor who played Garak).
They're not the most ground breaking stories ever, but if you like the characters then you will like most of these books.
HappenstanceUK
Member
I need to get back to those books at some point. I read a couple and then just drifted away. They seemed good but I wasn't too happy with the quick changes they made to stuff from the show.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
I've been watching through the good Enterprise episode and holy shit some of the zoomed out CGI shots are fucking terrible looking. YIKES!
What did you just say about Star Trek having bad CGI?
Everything in Voyager is still better than Babylon 5, so there's that.
I'm almost through season 3 of Voyager now.
I'm kinda shocked how its just a baby TNG. They almost never revolve stories about being alone and despite being explorers they are constantly communicating and going head first into crazy situations. It makes for diverse stories but I;m not sure it relates.
The Doctor really steals the show away. Every time he is on screen I just want to yell at everyone else to get off screen.
Even for how bad I've heard this show described by every single OT thread on neogaf its still star trek and I'll take that over most things today on TV.
I'm kinda shocked how its just a baby TNG. They almost never revolve stories about being alone and despite being explorers they are constantly communicating and going head first into crazy situations. It makes for diverse stories but I;m not sure it relates.
The Doctor really steals the show away. Every time he is on screen I just want to yell at everyone else to get off screen.
Even for how bad I've heard this show described by every single OT thread on neogaf its still star trek and I'll take that over most things today on TV.
3 eps in in season 4.
what the fuck happened with Kes? She changed her hair and left the show so quickly and that bizarre scene with Neelix. Did they break up before that and I missed it? A season ago Neelix was willing to kill Paris for her love and mate with her now it's an odd goodbye. Next episode isn't even about Neelix or the loss of kes. Shouldn't that be more important than seven of 9 fitting in?
Did the actress want to much money or something? Did she not want to wear the ears and that's why she grew her hair out?
I'm not even saying she was a great character but it felt like it wraped up really quickly.
Did the actress want to much money or something? Did she not want to wear the ears and that's why she grew her hair out?
I'm not even saying she was a great character but it felt like it wraped up really quickly.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Kes "broke up" with Neelix after the episode where she gets possessed.
And she was fired from the show, basically, to make room for Seven.
Everyone on the writing staff has also admitted that they had no idea what to do with her, so she was an easy one to write off. (As opposed to Kim. lol)
And she was fired from the show, basically, to make room for Seven.
Everyone on the writing staff has also admitted that they had no idea what to do with her, so she was an easy one to write off. (As opposed to Kim. lol)
Stallion Dan
Member
Kim was originally going to be killed off due to the events of Scorpion, and Kes was going to stay. Then Garret Wang was placed pretty high in a '50 Most beautiful people' list or something and the showrunners decided this meant he was pretty popular.
They needed axe someone still to make way for Seven so Kes was chosen instead.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Oh god, I forgot that magazine thing. lol
Kim wasn't "going to be killed off", they producers decided that someone was going to be fired/killed off, so they started making a short list of the least worthwhile characters on the show. Kes and Kim were both on that list, as apparently were others.
Then Garret Wang got the positive magazine article, and that was at least something, so it was enough to push Kim into the "not completely worthless" category and he was removed from consideration as the worst of the worst.
If Kim hadn't gotten a free pass, he might have been chosen as the one to get the axe, but it's not certain, and Kes might have still gotten the axe anyways.
Stallion Dan
Member
According to a behind the scenes book Wang had already been decided.
ChazAshley
CharAznable's second cousin
To start up some discussion because I like this thread and what you guys offer, would love to hear your opinions/thoughts on the strengths and weaknesses of the Captains.
Kirk: I haven't seen all TOS episodes but:
Strengths: Bold, never backing down (to a fault) - does a fairly good job in following the rules when necessary but knowing when to break them to survive (for the sake of the crew and the ship)
Weaknesses:
- Seems to have little remorse for the well being of red shirts every once in awhile.
Picard
Strengths: Knowledgeable, clear in standards even when communicating with other races. Well rounded in a variety of topics - seems to work well with people in varying ranks - able to handle his temper and standards even when working against difficult people. (like certain admirals...)
Weaknesses: Doesn't seem to work well with children haha. A lack of sense of humor seems to hurt his ability to understand certain things such as Q. (Although they kind of resolve this in the last episode where he decides to play poker with his crew, that was cool)
Sisko
Strengths: Able to get things done with whatever resources he has. Did a good job in balancing (imo) his responsibilities as a captain and emissary. Punched Q in the face with no fear.
Weaknesses:
but seriously, sometimes his relationships with others affected him once. Honestly can't think of any particular weakness for Sisko - I think overall he was just a good commanding officer.
Janeway
Strengths: If you're her favorite, she's willing to mess with the time line continuum to save your life.
Weaknesses: Rash - has "I'm always right, because I'm a captain" attitude. Follows the rules when it hurts others - breaks the rules when they benefit her and her favorites.
Archer
Strengths: Willing to risk his life multiple times for the sake of the crew.
Weaknesses: Uses his knowledge from his personal life/culture to make decisions rather so much set rules. I wouldn't particularly blame him for this as the "Federation" was still a baby - but his interactions with the vulcans and other races were hurt quite a bit with his lack of tact.
Kirk: I haven't seen all TOS episodes but:
Strengths: Bold, never backing down (to a fault) - does a fairly good job in following the rules when necessary but knowing when to break them to survive (for the sake of the crew and the ship)
Weaknesses:
Women
Picard
Strengths: Knowledgeable, clear in standards even when communicating with other races. Well rounded in a variety of topics - seems to work well with people in varying ranks - able to handle his temper and standards even when working against difficult people. (like certain admirals...)
Weaknesses: Doesn't seem to work well with children haha. A lack of sense of humor seems to hurt his ability to understand certain things such as Q. (Although they kind of resolve this in the last episode where he decides to play poker with his crew, that was cool)
Sisko
Strengths: Able to get things done with whatever resources he has. Did a good job in balancing (imo) his responsibilities as a captain and emissary. Punched Q in the face with no fear.
Weaknesses:
Jake
Janeway
Strengths: If you're her favorite, she's willing to mess with the time line continuum to save your life.
Weaknesses: Rash - has "I'm always right, because I'm a captain" attitude. Follows the rules when it hurts others - breaks the rules when they benefit her and her favorites.
Archer
Strengths: Willing to risk his life multiple times for the sake of the crew.
Weaknesses: Uses his knowledge from his personal life/culture to make decisions rather so much set rules. I wouldn't particularly blame him for this as the "Federation" was still a baby - but his interactions with the vulcans and other races were hurt quite a bit with his lack of tact.
Got my Defiant. Some rough edges, but plenty of detail and a fine addition to my small fleet.
How big are those minis? They look pretty nice and I'd love a TMP E or -A but I don't have space for one of the big models...
(If wishes were horses I'd get one of those majestic 1:350 Polar Lights kits you can stuff full of LEDs but I don't have model making skills and I don't want to invest the time into getting good enough to then make the model I wanted.)
Sizes vary, but they're generally pretty small. The Defiant is probably less than six inches long. Compared to Star Wars toys, they're a bit smaller than Action Fleet, but bigger than Titanium.
I've had build quality issues with some of them, but they've got some nice details for being so small, and I think they look pretty good.
Just imagine how tiny it would have to be to match the scale of that DS9.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Now you need Voyager.
She's basically schizophrenic as a captain. lol
Now you need Voyager.
I'll probably pick one up whenever I get around to watching that series. Same goes for the 1701-E and the NX-01.
The Hamburglar
Banned
I mean it's not like her and seven would have competed, couldn't they easily have kept her and got seven?
$$$
If they had kept everything as it was and then added Seven, the show would have either needed more money or a lower budget. And Star Trek often has to do "bottle episodes" (small episodes built around a handful of regulars sitting around talking, with very little use of anything that costs money) because they blew too much money on something flashy and now they need to lower their average per-episode costs if they intend to be able to finish the season.
Star Trek contracts were also often 3-year contracts, which meant that if they were going to fire someone, the season 3/4 break was the time to do it.
Although DS9 managed to add Worf to their cast in season 4 and didn't have to fire anyone to do it.
Stallion Dan
Member
I collect this series. I'm 70+ ships into it.Got my Defiant. Some rough edges, but plenty of detail and a fine addition to my small fleet.
Stallion Dan
Member
They must have had a much larger budget with the size of the cast, not just the main crew but Dukat, Damage, Winn, Nog, Leeya, Fatal, Martok, Keiko, Tom, Weyoum etc etc. Who all regularly appeared.
Edit - on mobile and it 'corrected' a bunch of names lol, too hard to edit them back.
Damn, where do you put them all? I've got most of my Star Wars Action Fleet ships just sitting in my closet because I've got nowhere to display all of them.
Stallion Dan
Member
Well for now they are all boxed up, since we're doing stuff to the house and no room to leave them on display.
When they do get put on display I'm probably going to have to pick out a bunch of favs unless I can figure out a way to display them all in a way that doesn't take too much room. When I started they said it was a 50 ship set, that was pretty much instantly bumped up to 70, now I think it is overr 100.
I opted out of the specials aside from DS9 (got two cos they messed up, so I'll turn one on it's side and call it Empok Nor) and the NX-01 refit. Not a fan of JJ Trek ship design though I may get the Franklin. Also got the All Good Things future Enterpise since I'm a subscriber, but it's regular model size.
Still waiting to see if they do the Scimitar. Is odd they not done that yet.
Just finished up TNG on Netflix. I have to say of all the reevaluations of episodes and seeing those ones here and there I don't think I'd ever seen, I was surprised that "Sub Rosa" wasn't as terrible as people made it out to be. To be fair, it's certainly not great, there's plenty of dumb and it's entire feel is offlike they took a TOS episode and didn't make the necessary shift in its tone for TNG. On a more macro level it's just another dumb relationship in a long line of them for the female characters on the show. But unwatchable and excruciating as the worst of Star Trek? Nah.
Stallion Dan
Member
The EMH's reminded me of Frasier and Niles so much that episodes.
I agree. Romanticization of ghost rape aside, I think it had a lot of interesting ideas as a one-off episode.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
When Picard gets trapped on a planet and has an alien try to bang him, he sees it as a problem to solve. Crusher just loses all rationality because her entirely family is genetically predisposed to be weak to this alien. lol
I dunno, I guess I don't have any strong feelings either way.
That said, I actually think Eye of the Beholder is an interesting episode in hindsight, because it's probably the first sign that humans in the future have the same hangups as we do and a murder-suicide is still possible after centuries of enlightenment.
I dunno, I guess I don't have any strong feelings either way.
That said, I actually think Eye of the Beholder is an interesting episode in hindsight, because it's probably the first sign that humans in the future have the same hangups as we do and a murder-suicide is still possible after centuries of enlightenment.
It may not be as bad as some people claim, but it's still pretty terrible. The ghost rape was just hard to watch, and it took everyone else way too long to figure out what was happening. It was all just kind of boring, except the ending, which was kind of awesome in a horribly cheesy way.
If the DS9 crew can get away with it, I don't see why you can't.
Yeah. The worst episodes are ones that I don't think offer even the glimmer of something interesting. This one did, but clearly it wasn't in Braga's wheelhouse to envision I guess. I'd find the end beat a lot more believable if you actually saw Ronin being interesting and doing something other than ghost sex; as is, he's like all those lecherous ambassadors who mack on Troi by creepily staring at her; I don't get what the characters see in these people. Also, getting rid of the stock caretaker would have helped; he's not a great character (why doesn't he just explain the issue?) and now he brings up unfortunate associations with Groundskeeper Willie.
I did really like that there was an alien leading the colony of Scots. Felt like a nicer update of the TOS/early TNG "it's like earth, but in spaaaace" setups, and felt a lot less exclusionary.
It's kind of bizarre how much of S7 was "let's meet family members of the main cast!" which drags it down a bit, but it finally finds stuff for Troi and Crusher to do, which is nice, and it still manages to throw out some weird interesting stuff alongside the more comfortable and safe eps.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Holy shit the advance alien in the chase on tng is also the female changling in ds9. I thought it was only the guy who plays wayoon who's in everything lol.
Stallion Dan
Member
It's weird how you miss things like that sometimes. Until my latest watch I completely missed Nog playing a young Kazon in Voyager. Or just forgot.
Pretty sure most of the DS9 Ferengi played different Ferengi on TNG.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Yeah I've see. Him tng and ds9 but it's James Cromwell he's in everything.
Does he love Star Trek?
He loves paychecks. I think people forget that until he was in "Babe", "First Contact", and "LA Confidential" he'd always been a pretty bit player.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
While Voyager had some damn good episodes and had a better ending than Enterprise, I find that Enterprise is a better overall package of a show than Voyager. Usually more consistent episodes, season long arcs that actually mean something and I enjoy Archer more than Janeway.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
That's the one I mean. The last episode.
I'll be interested in judging that for myself when I get through DS9. Voyager and Enterprise I watched during the original runs, and I feel like I disliked Enterprise a lot more, but that might have been a side effect of growing up and actually developing more sophistication as a viewer. Even as a teenage boy the decontamination gel scene was a WTF moment I distinctly remember being embarrassed by.
Heh, I was just playing Mass Effect 2 doing Grunt's loyalty mission and suddenly realized I was hearing Michael Dorn as Uvenk. It was a little surprising since I've played it twice before, but this is the first time I've played it since I started watching Star Trek.