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[Gowans]

I have just watched The Inner Light after a long time and catching up with TNG I finally got to it again.

My fave ep of Star Trek ever, it's also light punch to the gut.

The end where Pickard gets given the flute and have a vice like grip on it like he's clinging to to the memories of his wife & kids is brutal.

Now being a Dad I've got a even stronger connection to that ep.

 

[Slayven]

What about Bashir?

More on a feat for Barckley. Bashir probably score Kirk levels of poon if he wanted.

 

[Cheerilee]

Also, Q is awesome, and will forever be a wrench in any "Star Trek galaxy vs. ____" debate because no-one knows exactly what their power is. Could Q make an entire star disappear on a whim?

Q can change the gravitational constant of the universe. He can change history without having to deal with a butterfly effect. He may have even broken the fourth wall with his "trek" comment, suggesting that he's aware of the Star Trek universe's status as a fictional world created by Gene Roddenberry (similar to how the Moriarty hologram became aware of the Enterprise).

It's safe to say that within the Star Trek universe (which goes far beyond any mere galaxy or star system) Q is literally omnipotent (all powerful), but he's not omniscient (all knowing). Other omnipotent beings could potentially beat Q in a fight (and Star Trek apparently has other omnipotent beings), but for someone to do that they've have to be at least omnipotent at a universe level.

 

[benjipwns]

Haven't watched much of DS9, seemed boring
Don't kill me.

I absolutely LOVE Castle.

I absolutely LOOOOOOVVVEEEEEEE DS9.

I hope this provides perspective.

My fave ep of Star Trek ever

I have to ask our other regulars, just because, but let's all assume we can only pick one, and not a top five or anything. (Since I'd spend too many hours doing so, trying to figure out, watching them all.) Just go with your gut.

And yes, I have to be cliche and must pick "In the Pale Moonlight" because I never expected Trek to go there, nor in the way it did.

As a side note feel free to throw in a movie as well, I'll go with VI even though II did more to get me into Star Trek than anything.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I have to ask our other regulars, just because, but let's all assume we can only pick one, and not a top five or anything. (Since I'd spend too many hours doing so, trying to figure out, watching them all.)

All Good Things sticks out for me. A great out for TNG that let them revisit the pilot and give a not-going-to-happen glimpse forward, really brought the Q thing together, and used the time hopping device in an interesting way. Also, senile Picard.

					PICARD
			I'm fine. I don't need any rest.

					BEVERLY
				(to Chilton)
			Nell, please escort the Ambassador
			to his quarters--

					PICARD
			I can find my way around a
			starship!

	Picard addresses the group, building a head of steam.

					PICARD
			You're all treating me like an
			invalid, but I assure you I've got
			a few years left. I don't need to
			be led around and I don't want to
			be patronized.

					BEVERLY
			You're right. I'm sorry.

	Disarmed, he starts for the Turbolift.

					PICARD
			I'll go have a rest.

As a side note feel free to throw in a movie as well, I'll go with VI even though II did more to get me into Star Trek than anything.

First Contact. It's like it combines two of my favorite TOS movies in a TNG setting. On the ground we've got the time travel comedy of going 300 years into the past. On the ship we've got the serious side with a returning enemy, though in this case it's our captain who's obsessed with the enemy rather than being the target of the enemy's obsession.

And of course, First Contact has more Broccoli.

 

[benjipwns]

"All Good Things" is still the best finale by far, and it with First Contact on either side of Generations just illustrates how bad that film was. (I think Moore admits this.)

I'd probably put both of those in my top three for the two positions easily. "All Good Things" is the only I might question depending on how I'm feeling about the other hundreds of episodes out there. But damn do I love a lot of that episode.

Spoiler

First Contact and II: Wrath of Khan are the only others I'd even consider film wise. I doubt this is controversial. I love IV, but I can't, sorry.

 

[DarthWoo]

"All Good Things" is still the best finale by far, and it with First Contact on either side of Generations just illustrates how bad that film was. (I think Moore admits this.)

I'd probably put both of those in my top three for the two positions easily. "All Good Things" is the only I might question depending on how I'm feeling about the other hundreds of episodes out there. But damn do I love a lot of that episode.

Spoiler

First Contact and II: Wrath of Khan are the only others I'd even consider film wise. I doubt this is controversial. I love IV, but I can't, sorry.

I've never actually watched Generations in its entirety, but I watched the battle scene last night, and was tremendously disappointed. I mean, were they on such a shoestring budget that they had to reuse the Bird of Prey explosion from Undiscovered Country? I could swear some of the interior shots of Klingons getting thrown around after the torpedo hits were also reused for Dominion War battle shots, but at least that's excusable due to TV budget constraints.

Also, regarding Q and stars, there was a

Spoiler

Q Civil War at some point during Voyager, where multiple stars were inadvertently destroyed in supernovae due to the Qs' actions.

 

[DSFan1970]

Alexander Siddig is playing an evil mastermind in Primeval.

I've noticed him in lots of shitty bit-parts, like that mountaineering movie or Spooks. Deservers better.

Hermes in Clash of the Titans (2010) ! I just found that out. Had no idea. Thought that was Ralph Fiennes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ashley-wren-collins/alexander-siddig-is-part_b_567711.html

 

[Zenith]

I could swear some of the interior shots of Klingons getting thrown around after the torpedo hits were also reused for Dominion War battle shots, but at least that's excusable due to TV budget constraints.

in the final battle DS9 reused lots of shots, including trying to disguise the shot of Garak getting blow up on a street a few eps earlier as a random Cardassian dying on a ship.

 

[Jasoco]

What does everyone think of Q?

I recently watched all the episodes he is in and I find him hilliarious

TNG Q was amazing. He knew exactly how to get to Picard, and sometimes Riker.

DS9 Q showed up once, got punched in the face by Sisko and never came back. Though he did remark that "Picard never hit me." and "It means I got a rise out of you." He's right, Picard never stooped to giving Q the satisfaction. I guess Q found it more fun to fuck around with someone who didn't want to react.

Voyager Q pretty much destroyed the character. He was such a tease. He could have taken them home at any time, but out of spite he never did. Even after Janeway gave him an egg to make an annoying Q son. Since Voyager was about being lost, we knew they couldn't get home until season 7 at the earliest, so having Q there when deep down we knew he wouldn't be helping them was just filler.

In fact, every episode where they "found a way home" was a tease because you knew it was going to fail. There were only a small amount of episodes where they made any progress that actually stuck until the last episode. It's been forever and I forget, but that one where they make the engines go really fast and crash and have to be saved by time traveling crew members did take them quite a bit of the way. And the episodes where they went to 1996 did give us the mobile emitter. So that's nice. The rest of it though was just reset button after reset button. Like each time they supposedly found an experimental replacement for Voyager. Yeah, like they'd actually replace the ship the show is named after. Oh, hey. Andy Dick? Okay.. whatever. I totally buy Dick as an EMH.

Wait... wasn't I talking about Q? How did I get into Voy-- oh, that's right.

Watching Deep Space Nine now. Am on "If Wishes Were Horses" right now. Dammit, Bashir! I forgot how much of a whiny Dax-chasing emo you were at first.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Wow just saw the best trailer ever. It's for Star Trek VI and narrated by Christopher Plummer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGEa9Jmp1IM

 

[DrForester]

What does everyone think of Q?

I recently watched all the episodes he is in and I find him hilliarious

Good character, though with the exception of "All Good Things...", where he behaved much like he did in "Encounter at Farpoint" I was disappointed his character didn't remain an adversary and became more the comic relief guy. Almost like TNG's Harvey Mudd. He got more goofy with every appearance. People point to Voyager as his downfall but I think he was well on his way there before the end of TNG.

I really didn't like the DS9 episode. He and Sisko had no chemistry. Least with Janeway the two played off each other well, even if the stories weren't good.

 

[siddx]

While a part of me wishes he remained an antagonist, it's hard to have a bad guy who is all powerful and able to remove you from existence with a snap of the finger.
In the end I actually think he made better comic relief than a bad guy. No matter how powerful the enemy is, you have to have some hope of winning, of being able to beat them. There is no hope of that with Q. The Borg is the bigger shame as far as ruining bad guys (Hirogen and Species 8572 as well...although the book for Star Trek Online redeems Species 8572 somewhat).

Once I not only accepted but supported Q in a comic role, I found all the Voyager episodes featuring him to be much more entertaining and enjoyable.

 

[antonz]

It makes sense Q evolved character wise to some extent. He started off hating or at least fearing the potential humanity because it was dangerous etc. His interactions with Picard and such gave him better insight and perhaps hope for the species even if begrudgingly.

He still kept a bit of the bad guy hint to him because he had to keep Picard etc on their toes so they could achieve that higher purpose rather then stupidly destroy themsevles.

Q relationship with Picard was based on earned respect for sure.

The experiment to bring him to DS9 didnt work well because Sisko just didnt mesh well with Q and was too focused on the bajoran prophets stuff.

Q and Janeway was just a strange mix of things

 

[Henchmen21]

Wow just saw the best trailer ever. It's for Star Trek VI and narrated by Christopher Plummer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGEa9Jmp1IM

Yeah that's the teaser trailer. I remember seeing it on video's before the movie came out. Not as focused on the movie itself as the full trailer but I find it better. Kind of sums up all of Trek (atleast how trek was at the time).

 

[TheVampire]

Q relationship with Picard was based on earned respect for sure.


Q and Janeway was just a strange mix of things

I think he really did like (or love?) Janeway
I remember the crew talking about how he filled the bridge with roses for her LOL

 

[DarthWoo]

Got my comic collection DVD in the mail today. It's pretty decent as far as content, though some of the scan quality is pretty terrible, if still legible. I actually am enjoying seeing the old vintage ads in them, as they basically scanned everything from cover to cover. I just wish they had found a better way to put the copyright on it without a big bar going across the bottom of every page, even if it cuts across some art.

 

[Slayven]

Anyone else read the Q trilogy? It was pretty fun, and explained a lot of things. Like why there was a giant head in the "Undiscovered country."

 

[siddx]

Anyone else read the Q trilogy? It was pretty fun, and explained a lot of things. Like why there was a giant head in the "Undiscovered country."

I always meant to, its one of the few trek book series that I haven't read.

 

[Slayven]

I always meant to, its one of the few trek book series that I haven't read.

You should, it digs deep into Trek history plays with it.

 

[Lard]

And the episodes where they went to 1996 did give us the mobile emitter. So that's nice.

Except for the fact it completely disregarded established Trek history. Khan should have been ruling the world at that point.

Voyager was a failure on every level.

 

[DrForester]

Anyone else read the Q trilogy? It was pretty fun, and explained a lot of things. Like why there was a giant head in the "Undiscovered country."

Which books are those? Based on that description I'm guessing Q Squared is in there?

 

[DrForester]

Fanfics come to life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX6KT1Ai07o

 

[benjipwns]

Which books are those? Based on that description I'm guessing Q Squared is in there?

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/The_Q_Continuum

I liked them. I really liked I, Q which de Lancie and Peter David wrote.

 

[Jasoco]

Except for the fact it completely disregarded established Trek history. Khan should have been ruling the world at that point.

Voyager was a failure on every level.

Seeing as it was currently 1996 in the real world and Kahn was not ruling the world, I allow it. Because, hell, it's a TV show trying to predict the future. A future closer than it should have. Like 2001. Or Demolition Man that said in the 90's, all hell would break loose prompting us to declare marshal law. I don't see that happening. Or hover cars and hoverboards and dust repellant paper. (Though BTTF II may have gotten one thing right. "You mean you gotta use your hands?" Controller-free consoles in 2015.)

How do we know Kahn didn't rule the world? All we saw was Los Angeles. Just because the ruler changes doesn't mean the world completely changes. For all we know Kahn might just have been the ruler. They didn't have to mention it for it to be true. It's Trek's fault for making Kahn a ruler in a time so near in the future. But I assume they never thought anyone would even remember Trek by 1996. They could have made it 2096 or 2196 and it would have been easier to swallow. Because who's gonna remember TOS 85 years from now? Or even care that its history didn't happen?

 

[Lard]

It's Trek's fault for making Kahn a ruler in a time so near in the future.

Actually, no. It's the Voyager writer's fault for not sticking to something that had been firmly established in the lore of the series 30 years before (at the time it was written).

I'm not a hardcore Trek fan by any stretch, but even I knew they had fucked up history when they did the episode.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

 

[firehawk12]

Seeing as it was currently 1996 in the real world and Kahn was not ruling the world, I allow it. Because, hell, it's a TV show trying to predict the future. A future closer than it should have. Like 2001. Or Demolition Man that said in the 90's, all hell would break loose prompting us to declare marshal law. I don't see that happening. Or hover cars and hoverboards and dust repellant paper. (Though BTTF II may have gotten one thing right. "You mean you gotta use your hands?" Controller-free consoles in 2015.)

How do we know Kahn didn't rule the world? All we saw was Los Angeles. Just because the ruler changes doesn't mean the world completely changes. For all we know Kahn might just have been the ruler. They didn't have to mention it for it to be true. It's Trek's fault for making Kahn a ruler in a time so near in the future. But I assume they never thought anyone would even remember Trek by 1996. They could have made it 2096 or 2196 and it would have been easier to swallow. Because who's gonna remember TOS 85 years from now? Or even care that its history didn't happen?

Old Trek takes place in the 2200s, so...

And there was WW3 and that "lock poor people into ghettos" era of Earth that they had to fit in as well.

 

[siddx]

Actually, no. It's the Voyager writer's fault for not sticking to something that had been firmly established in the lore of the series 30 years before (at the time it was written).

I'm not a hardcore Trek fan by any stretch, but even I knew they had fucked up history when they did the episode.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

Argument can be made that the timeline was changed so it's possible Kahn never had the chance to rise to power.

 

[antonz]

Argument can be made that the timeline was changed so it's possible Kahn never had the chance to rise to power.

That would alter everything from TOS etc not to mention how the movies would change.
Spock wouldn't die and there would be no genesis planet thus David would not be murdered by the Klingons and all the repercussions of that change

 

[siddx]

That's just assumption as well. Whose to say his rise wasn't simply delayed? Or that it occurred earlier and had already been dealt with by that time? Or far more likely, the timeline was repaired back to it's original or near original state, as braxton and company talk about doing in other episodes.

 

[jaxword]

There are a few examples of the Trek WW3 timeline in the series, but never the actual Eugenics Wars.

Ds9 had Sisko and Bashir fight in the future ghettos, which is about 30 years before WW3.

We saw the results of WW3 in First Contact, but never the actual war.

These two things aren't negated by our current timeline yet.

In theory, the Eugenics wars started in the late 90s, but the show never showed it.

A fun theory I heard is that the main difference in our timeline vs Trek is that Gene Roddenberry never existed to create his inspirational socialist peaceful stories in the 60s. As a result, the world was a lot angrier and willing to advance tech for war-like purposes, including genetics.

 

[karobit]

A fun theory I heard is that the main difference in our timeline vs Trek is that Gene Roddenberry never existed to create his inspirational socialist peaceful stories in the 60s. As a result, the world was a lot angrier and willing to advance tech for war-like purposes, including genetics.

But what about all the technology that exists today specifically because people saw it on Star Trek and said "I want to make that for realsies." In 21st century Star Trek Earth, there are Eugenics Wars, but no cell phones. The tragedy!

 

[benjipwns]

So by watching Star Trek we've actually changed the future and prevented it from becoming reality on the proper timeline!

Kirk might not even be born! What will we do when we run into all those computers and their logic? Or Picard! How will we defeat the Borg? Or Sisko! Without the Emissary how will we ever stop the Dominion from invading the Alpha Quadrant?

Gene Roddenberry, history's greatest monster? I report, you decide.

 

[Zzoram]

DS9's pilot is weak and has lots of poor line delivery but being the only Star Trek to have a series-long story arc makes it my favorite. I just choose to not watch a lot of the filler episodes mostly in season 1 and 2 when rewatching it.

 

[Slayven]

Which books are those? Based on that description I'm guessing Q Squared is in there?

No they are, Q-Zone, Q-Space, Q-Strike or Star Trek The Q Continuum.

 

[Jasoco]

Actually, no. It's the Voyager writer's fault for not sticking to something that had been firmly established in the lore of the series 30 years before (at the time it was written).

I'm not a hardcore Trek fan by any stretch, but even I knew they had fucked up history when they did the episode.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

I think they did it because, and I know it's been said before, they think the viewers are dumb. They figured if they set it to 1996, but had Kahn the ruler, people watching Voyager (Who may not even have ever seen TOS before let alone Wrath.) wouldn't get it. "Who is this guy?" They'd have to re-re-introduce Kahn for the dumb 90's audience. In other words, Voyager was aimed at 90's people. Not the "old fogey's" who watched TOS as a kid. DS9 was aimed at the BSG and B5 audiences. And I don't know who Enterprise was aimed at.

They wanted to do a modern day episode along the lines of Star Trek IV, but they still had to keep it familiar. It was the only way they could have done it without confusing the shit out of most people.

Also, I like that episode because it introduced me to Sarah Silverman. Thank you, Voyager.

Let's just chalk it up to Voyager sucking. DS9 was the peak of Trek. Voyager was the start downhill and Enterprise ran it into the ground.

 

[Walshicus]

Wasn't Khan supposed to be ruler of Asia and China only?

 

[Cheerilee]

Wasn't Khan supposed to be ruler of Asia and China only?

According to Memory Alpha, Kahn was the first Augment to seize power, ruling 1/4 of the planet with a new united Asia/Middle East superpower that he built through peaceful means.

One year later, 40 countries were overthrown in one coordinated attack by 40 affiliated groups of Augments.

The Augments led their respective countries in wars against each other and/or were hit by mass revolt from the non-augmented Humans. 37 million people died. About a million per affected country.

Kahn was supposedly the greatest ruler of the Augments, since he didn't commit any war crimes nor try to conquer any other countries. This suggests that the other Augments did.

According to Voyager, America didn't give a crap because none of this was happening to them.

After the 40 groups were defeated, Humans decided that all Augments had dangerous levels of aggression and ambition as a by-product of their enhanced abilities (like Dr Bashir, right?), so they couldn't be allowed to live, so the world turned against Kahn, even though he wasn't really an asshole and was probably a better leader than anyone we've currently got in that region. But when they got to his door, they found he had retreated into space, so they covered it up and put up a "mission accomplished" banner.

30 years after Kahn left, a nuclear war was triggered (World War III). 600 million people died. Kahn might have prevented it.

Kahn was understandably pissed when he woke up and found his wife suddenly dead, so he picked a fight with Kirk, which is always a bad idea.


Edit:

You made me double-check, it's Khan dude! ;D

Facepalm. I suck.

 

[Walshicus]

You made me double-check, it's Khan dude! ;D

 

[DrForester]

Been a while since I saw it, but wasn't that Voyager episode in an alternate timeline because of all the Future Tech that got into the past? Wasn't it restored at the end?

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Been a while since I saw it, but wasn't that Voyager episode in an alternate timeline because of all the Future Tech that got into the past? Wasn't it restored at the end?

It was Voyager of course every thing was exactly the same afterwards.

 

[DarthWoo]

According to Voyager, America didn't give a crap because none of this was happening to them.

So basically they got it exactly right.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Except for the fact it completely disregarded established Trek history. Khan should have been ruling the world at that point.

Voyager was a failure on every level.

They've always had to play a bit fast and loose when it comes to OOPS WE DIDN'T THINK ANYONE WOULD STILL CARE ABOUT STAR TREK IN THAT YEAR type predictions.

Though some have tried to work around it--there are a couple Eugenics Wars books which in short kind of take the path that Khan and his ilk are behind the scenes manipulating things all around the world, with and against each other.

 

[Jasoco]

Well, according to DS9, in about 10 years, every major city is going to have a sanctuary district to throw all the homeless, jobless and poor people to get them out of the way.

 

[jaxword]

Been a while since I saw it, but wasn't that Voyager episode in an alternate timeline because of all the Future Tech that got into the past? Wasn't it restored at the end?

This works better as an interpretation, as it leaves the Trek version of the 90s/2000s unseen on screen. Khan can still wage his war.

 

[DrForester]

Greatest Wiki page ever.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Performers_considered_for_Star_Trek_roles

James Earl Jones (born 1931) was among the final few actors considered for the role of Benjamin Sisko, but eventually the role went to Avery Brooks. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)

Edward James Olmos (born 1947) is an Emmy-winning, Academy Award-nominated actor. Leonard Nimoy wanted Olmos to play Kruge in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, but the role ultimately went to Christopher Lloyd. (Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (Special Edition) special features)

A few years later, Olmos was offered the role of Jean-Luc Picard on Star Trek: The Next Generation. However, he had to turn it down as he was busy with other projects.[21]

Lloyd Bridges (1913 – 1998) was an Emmy-nominated American actor who was approached by Gene Roddenberry in 1964 to play the lead in the pilot, "The Cage" for a proposed series. Bridges turned down the role, not wanting to be involved in another science fiction project following the failure of his 1950 film Rocketship X-M and feeling that doing a "space show" would hurt his career. [9] [10]

Roddy McDowall (1928 – 1998) was casting director Joseph D'Agosta's choice for the role of Trelane in "The Squire of Gothos". However, he was overruled by producer Gene L. Coon's choice, William Campbell who seemed to be more suitable for the part.[17]

William O. Campbell (born 7 July 1959; age 51) auditioned for the role of Commander William T. Riker in Star Trek: The Next Generation. Jonathan Frakes got the part and Campbell was the second choice. Both were among the five finalists for the role. According to the studio executives, Campbell was considered to be "too soft" for role of Riker. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion)

Campbell later played Thadiun Okona in the TNG episode "The Outrageous Okona".

Jeffrey Combs (born 9 September 1954; age 56) was also one of several actors who auditioned for the role of Commander William T. Riker in Star Trek: The Next Generation. Though he lost to Jonathan Frakes, Frakes would remember him years later when he cast Combs in the role of Tiron in the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode Meridian, a role that lead to numerous other roles, most notably Brunt, Weyoun, and Shran. (DS9 Season 5 DVD, Special "Hidden File 10")

Robin Williams (born 1951) is a popular American actor and comedian for whom the character of Berlinghoff Rasmussen from the TNG episode "A Matter of Time" was originally written. Williams, however, had to decline the role to play Peter Pan in Steven Spielberg's film, Hook. (Star Trek 30 Years, TNG Season 5 DVD special features)

Martin Sheen (born 1940) is the multiple award-winning American actor, who was originally considered for the role of Section 31 operative Luther Sloan in "Inquisition" and consequent episodes. However, producers finally chose William Sadler for the part. As Ira Steven Behr explained, "We needed someone who had real power as an actor, who could keep you from jumping to a final conclusion about his character." (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)

 

[Instigator]

I have to ask our other regulars, just because, but let's all assume we can only pick one, and not a top five or anything. (Since I'd spend too many hours doing so, trying to figure out, watching them all.) Just go with your gut.

It's hard to pinpoint just one...

Q Who. I've always liked that episode for many reasons. First, it started to show the TNG moving from the rut of the first season. I like that it was the Borg for the very first time, an intriguing enemy, before Trek ruined it. And it's a good Q episode at the same time where he "wins" at the end.

 

[Zzoram]

Well, according to DS9, in about 10 years, every major city is going to have a sanctuary district to throw all the homeless, jobless and poor people to get them out of the way.

That's actually not beyond the realm of possibility yet. If we never recover from this recession, or some crisis occurs to turn it into a depression, something resembling that could be in the cards.

 

[DrForester]

Original Gene Roddenberry 16 page Outline/Pitch.

http://leethomson.myzen.co.uk/Star_Trek/1_Original_Series/Star_Trek_Pitch.pdf

Love that last line

 

[The Librarian]

Thanks, Dr. Forester! Will give this a read later.