Davey Cakes
Member
Reading this thread put me in the mood to watch some DS9. I re-watched "Duet."
Man, I really miss this show.
Man, I really miss this show.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
For my money, a large stretch of season 2 is easily the worst part of Enterprise. Basically the season starts out okay, then it falls straight off a cliff after the episode with the repair station. You get gems like A Night in Sickbay and Precious Cargo, and the rest of the show is just sort of average at best until the next Andorian episode hits, at which point the season starts to recover.
It is, explicitly, in the same universe. First Contact in particular comes up. The whole thing with the Temporal Cold War is that you shouldn't assume that the unaltered timeline is actually the original timeline you saw in the other shows. Whenever time travel shenanigans come up in relation to the other shows, they play it up like a predestination paradox.
Archer is explicitly mentioned in the new Trek movie, though, but I'd assume that the timeline actually split where the movie says it split.
Also the Temporal Cold War arc doesn't really go anywhere. I mean, they eventually wrap it up, but not in a way that makes you go "okay I see what they were doing and this all works out now".
TCW episodes are essentially just excuses for action episodes with time travel shenanigans. That's it. Doesn't mean they can't be fun, and I do really like a few of them (there's a season 2 one in particular that I enjoy), but it's not actually important to what Enterprise becomes.
TCW episodes are essentially just excuses for action episodes with time travel shenanigans. That's it. Doesn't mean they can't be fun, and I do really like a few of them (there's a season 2 one in particular that I enjoy), but it's not actually important to what Enterprise becomes.
I've always considered Enterprise to be a separate timeline, created by altered events from the Borg attack in First Contact. Sure, they made sure that Cochrane made his warp run and made contact with the Vulcans, but we don't know what other damage was done to the timeline.
As Picard says in Best of Both worlds, "That's a... a conceit. But... it's a healthy one."
Rei no Otaku
Member
So I finally decided I was going to watch all of Star Trek. So far I've finished ToS and I'm almost done with the 4th season of TNG. I wasn't really digging TNG for the first 2 and a half seasons, but now I'm enjoying it quite a bit. That being said, I do think I like ToS more though. I really liked the friendship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and overall the show just felt more "human." The characters in TNG feel more like these perfect ideals than real people. With Kirk you sometimes had a doubt about whether he'd do the right thing because he may be captain, but he was still just a man with all the flaws that we have. Whereas with Picard I always assume he'll do the right thing (even if I may disagree with it especially when it comes to the Prime Directive) because he's Picard. Also I liked how "alone" ToS felt. It really felt like they were out in the middle of nowhere discovering things never before seen by man. I don't get that feeling from TNG.
Either way, I still really like TNG so far. Just stating some opinions on what I've seen so far
Either way, I still really like TNG so far. Just stating some opinions on what I've seen so far
They touch more on the temporal cold war in the Star Trek DTI books. They try to give it a bit more weight and importance and do a fairly good job at it. The books are a bit convoluted and packed to the brim with techno babble but they are still worth a read and have some very interesting stories.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i guess i can buy that, but...
i never meant to imply that Archer didn't exist. I meant more that the "events" we see in THIS show weren't what was "supposed" to happen and what we see for the other shows. In essence, Enterprise is basically a sequel to the other shows because the temporal cold war stuff happens "after" them. that's how i see it, anyway. and seeing it this way actually lets me free any of the notions of the other series because things happen in a "different" way this time around.
season 2 has been sort of drab, but there's only been 1 or 2 terrible episodes this season. 1st season was a little better, but not by much.
i think the first episode where i really felt cheated was "Judgment." They didn't explain how Archer got captured... and that was probably the biggest detail they left out of their dumb retelling in that episode.
You were probably referencing to "Future Tense" where they found the ship that has a fourth dimension to it. that was a pretty cool episode.
I would disagree, Enterprise was advertised as a show that happens before everything else, a lot of the stories are supposed to be origin for things that happen in the other series, Klingon genetic manipulation, The Borg finding us, the mirror universe.
Yet none of these things are ever really noted on in the series that are set later in the time line because these events dust exist to the writers.
There are a lot of theories and fans trying to stick Enterprise in some special timeline, but at the end of the day it was written as a prequel series to everything else and comes with the same problems almost every other prequel does where they are writing events that just aren't even noted on in the existing series.
Star Trek as a whole at this point is just one big self fufilling prophecy, lol, besides when they purposefully hit the reset button at the end of an episode where everything goes wrong there's no real reason to think what we see in any of the shows are branching timelines besides just general writing plot holes.
At least that is my opinion of it, lol.
Finally got around to watching all the sfdebris Chain of Command stuff, really good. Glad he brought up the 2+2=4, a lot of reviews miss that reference. Also I like how he's been focusing on how Cardassians need to exert dominance and that this is what the torture was about. Also the use of daughter/beverly on both sides finally being acknowledged in a review is so good.
This episode makes other torture in other tv shows, where the plot calls for brainwashing/turning a character against others, look like a joke. (most recently an episode of Merlin lol)
edit: also loved the "bananas in tailpipes" ref, oh man
Also so happy to realize he reviewed Faces! Be'lanna is my fave character on Voyageur and that episode was pretty cool (and scary as hell) when I was young!
This episode makes other torture in other tv shows, where the plot calls for brainwashing/turning a character against others, look like a joke. (most recently an episode of Merlin lol)
edit: also loved the "bananas in tailpipes" ref, oh man
Also so happy to realize he reviewed Faces! Be'lanna is my fave character on Voyageur and that episode was pretty cool (and scary as hell) when I was young!
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I just realized that sfdebris is reviewing "Tattoo" on Thanksgiving. That can't be a coincidence.
Henchmen21
Banned
I expected more of a response out of Drunk Picard on Youtube.
I'm not even sure what I was watching. Was he really drunk or was it a bit?
Oddly, I was hoping he'd hate on it just a smidge more! Do like that he researched to find out that the main lady was an amazon in something else and pointed out that getting tall amazons who can act limited their choices greatly.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
BBC America will be doing a marathon tomorrow of Britain's most beloved Sci-Fi series. Doctor Wh-
Red Dwar-
Oh of course, Star Trek: The Next Generation, it has a British guy in it, it must be BBC.
Full of Season 7 episodes, not including All Good Things...
Way to go BBCA...
Red Dwar-
Oh of course, Star Trek: The Next Generation, it has a British guy in it, it must be BBC.
Full of Season 7 episodes, not including All Good Things...
Way to go BBCA...
IISANDERII
Member
DS9 season 4, episode 2: The Visitor.
Seeing somebody in my family get caught up with compulsive behaviours reminded me of this episode, even though I hadn't seen it in a long time.
Particularly when Jake
Great Trek.
Also saw the awesome two parter Homefront/Paradise Lost and made me think about motivations for 9/11. Yeah, I'm a bit behind.
Seeing somebody in my family get caught up with compulsive behaviours reminded me of this episode, even though I hadn't seen it in a long time.
Particularly when Jake
's wife leaves him over his obsessions and when his father tells him "it's not too late, you still have time to make a life for yourself"
Also saw the awesome two parter Homefront/Paradise Lost and made me think about motivations for 9/11. Yeah, I'm a bit behind.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
The Visitor is one of the best episodes in all of DS9.
Still slowly chewing through the last season myself. Was sad about
for awhile, but I've warmed up to Ezri (she's cute!)
It's slow going though as it's a long season. Just got through Chimera.
Ones I liked since I posted last were "The Siege of Ar-558" and "The Emperor's New Cloak". Typically not a huge fan of Ferengi stories, but that one was alt-universe as well which I've found interesting.
Siege I think was an important episode to really highlight the cost of (the) war. Pretty emotionally powerful, even if a bit cliché.
Still slowly chewing through the last season myself. Was sad about
Jadzia
It's slow going though as it's a long season. Just got through Chimera.
Ones I liked since I posted last were "The Siege of Ar-558" and "The Emperor's New Cloak". Typically not a huge fan of Ferengi stories, but that one was alt-universe as well which I've found interesting.
Siege I think was an important episode to really highlight the cost of (the) war. Pretty emotionally powerful, even if a bit cliché.
viewtifulsub
Member
My problem with Ezri is that Berman (?) felt like he had to get the audience's acceptance of Ezri. This meant we got 1/2 of the season devoted to the character development of her character, and everyone else left behind.
Wasn't a big fan of the final season regardless of Ezri. The serial arc felt like it was running out of steam, and Sisko was borderline fanatical in his prophetic ways
I tear up every single time I watch that.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
"Tattoo" review was amazing.
One of the very few episodes I never caught during it's original run. Saw it about 2 years ago for the first time and was blown away, great episode that doesn't get enough love.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Been watching more DS9 and holy hell is this last season drawn out. There is a lot of filler that has nothing to do with the Dominion War arc (whether it's good or not is another story).
The Dominion War arc is so long that I've kind of gotten bored of it by now.
And they really milked the Vic Fontaine stuff. Surprised that storyline/character continued for as long as it did.
The Dominion War arc is so long that I've kind of gotten bored of it by now.
And they really milked the Vic Fontaine stuff. Surprised that storyline/character continued for as long as it did.
Just keep watching. Like literally half of the season is an extended dominion war serialized section, so they do everything else they wanted to do before it gets to that point. (12 episodes straight at the end of nonstop plot).
lastplayed
Member
Finally got my hands on the TNG Blu-ray. Looks pretty damn good, the Enterprise looking as gorgeous as ever. And the title sequence! So crisp and clean, made me feel like a kid again.
Also funny seeing O'Brien there, haven't seen the early seasons in years.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
So I just finished DS9 (What do I watch now?!). Pretty sure I watched every episode except one - I know I skipped one that sounded kinda boring in an earlier season (though I did read the wiki page for it.)
I'll probably post some more complete thoughts later about specific things I liked/disliked about the last season/episodes as well as on episodes from other seasons that stood out, but for now I'll leave it at this:
DS9 was a very worthwhile viewing experience. Flaws aside, I don't feel like I wasted my time getting drawn into the world and characters, and that's about the best praise I can give a show. There were highs and lows, but I thought that overall it was a good, solid show.
I'll probably post some more complete thoughts later about specific things I liked/disliked about the last season/episodes as well as on episodes from other seasons that stood out, but for now I'll leave it at this:
DS9 was a very worthwhile viewing experience. Flaws aside, I don't feel like I wasted my time getting drawn into the world and characters, and that's about the best praise I can give a show. There were highs and lows, but I thought that overall it was a good, solid show.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
So, with the second season about to come out, is there a crazy deal for it like there was for the first season?
Doublesith
Member
Anybody have $10,000 I could borrow? FUUUU
https://store.qmxonline.com/Star-Trek-The-Next-Generation-Enterprise-D-Artisan-Replica_p_181.html
https://store.qmxonline.com/Star-Trek-The-Next-Generation-Enterprise-D-Artisan-Replica_p_181.html
Anyone going to tonight's in-theater showings of some Season 2 TNG episodes ("Q Who?" and "The Measure of a Man")?
http://www.fathomevents.com/#!star-trek-the-next-generation/more-info/details
Apparently, it starts at 7pm in whichever time zone you're located. I'm on vacation in Orlando, and I'm taking the night off from the theme parks to go see Riker's beard in its HD glory.
http://www.fathomevents.com/#!star-trek-the-next-generation/more-info/details
Apparently, it starts at 7pm in whichever time zone you're located. I'm on vacation in Orlando, and I'm taking the night off from the theme parks to go see Riker's beard in its HD glory.
Klendathu Club Owner
Member
I finished watching DS9 a few days ago. There was a re-run on tv and I caught a lot of the episodes from the later seasons. It really drew me in and I liked it overall. Still, I think that other sci-fi show about a space station is far better in terms of overarching plot, villains and character development. Some of the similarities are very striking, though. Who was isnpired by whom?
I liked the stuff about the Klingons and the Dominion War the most and that there was an ongoing storyline. Well, except for those terrible episodes during the war where nothing happens. Like that baseball game....
Two things I didn't really get. 1.) So DS9 is literally right next to Bajor? I ended up watching the first episode after the finale and when Sisko is talking to Picard on the Enterprise you can see a planet from the windows in the conference room. That's Bajor? I knew that the station was close to Bajor, but since since the planet and the station aren't shown on screen together (not even in the awesome intro) I figured it wasn't that close. More like a couple of lightyears away or something.
2.) I started to watch the series when the conflict with the Dominion started to ramp up: Was there trade between the Alpha and Gamma quadrant via the wormhole before the conflict? I thought the station served as a trading outpost, but now I think I remember that the Cardassians used it to control Bajoran space.
And damn if Kira didn't look fine in a certain uniform (MINOR SPOILER)
I liked the stuff about the Klingons and the Dominion War the most and that there was an ongoing storyline. Well, except for those terrible episodes during the war where nothing happens. Like that baseball game....
Two things I didn't really get. 1.) So DS9 is literally right next to Bajor? I ended up watching the first episode after the finale and when Sisko is talking to Picard on the Enterprise you can see a planet from the windows in the conference room. That's Bajor? I knew that the station was close to Bajor, but since since the planet and the station aren't shown on screen together (not even in the awesome intro) I figured it wasn't that close. More like a couple of lightyears away or something.
2.) I started to watch the series when the conflict with the Dominion started to ramp up: Was there trade between the Alpha and Gamma quadrant via the wormhole before the conflict? I thought the station served as a trading outpost, but now I think I remember that the Cardassians used it to control Bajoran space.
And damn if Kira didn't look fine in a certain uniform (MINOR SPOILER)
The station started out right next to Bajor, but they moved it close to the wormhole in the pilot episode with its thrusters, shields and a bit of technobabble. I believe the Mirror Universe episodes depict the two as being close together since the station was never moved in that timeline.
SpoonyBard
Banned
JMS (the guy who made that other show) was trying to sell his space station show to Paramount first, but turned out they weren't interested. When Warner Bros got interested, and production started Paramount suddenly decided that they wanted a space station show too, and quickly, so they used some of the material they got from JMS as a starting point. Similarities in character names and plot points aren't necessarily always happy coincidences.
DS9 was originally in orbit of Bajor. It was there to oversee the Occupation. The Cardassians were unable to move it when they left, so they abandoned it and allowed it to become Bajoran property.
But then when the wormhole was discovered just outside of Bajor's space, they decided to move DS9 away from Bajor over to a stationary non-orbiting position next to the wormhole. Chief O'Brien figured out how to move it. Bajoran property in unclaimed space next to Bajoran space means that Bajoran space extends outward and reclassified the wormhole as being in Bajoran space. It's like planting a flag.
Yeah, the Bajorans decided to use the station as a trading post, unlike the Cardassians.
When the wormhole opened up, it became useful for Alpha/Gamma trade in addition to Bajor/offworld trade.
Klendathu Club Owner
Member
Ah, okay, that explains a lot, thanks (I didn't finish watching the pilot).
SpoonyBard said:
Interesting! Didn't know that JMS pitched Babylon 5 to Paramount.
EDIT: And thanks to Cheerilee, too.
SpoonyBard
Banned
I think Paramount and several other studios even got the series bible for the first 3 seasons. Of course several things had to be changed on the fly when Babylon 5 started filming, with actors leaving, and things not working as well as planned. It would be interesting to see what the original plan was...
I'm not just bashing DS9 here, Paramount also did similar thing when Deep Impact was being made. Armageddon was the result of that...
I just got back from this, I absolutely loved it. In addition to the two episodes, they showed parts of the S2 bloopers, a special where all the main cast did a sit-down talk together, parts of the making-of for Season 2, and a preview for the Season 3 set.
Some of the making-of was great. One part of note that I liked was how they did the pulling-out shot in Q Who (when they're on the cube and the camera pans out to show more of the interior). And The Measure of a Man was an extended edition (they said that the original script ran long, so they cut it down, but gave the full version to the author as thanks, then contacted her during the remaster to use it), and the added scenes were awesome. Mostly they seemed to fill out the Riker and Picard's work and challenge in preparing for the trial, and a bit more on Picard's relationship with Louvois and the same Maddox with Data. Actually, the extra scenes made Maddox seem more cold and cruel to Data than in the original, at one point interrupting Data's going away party and saying that he should join the carnival.
I didn't go to the season 1 one (frankly nothing in S1 stood out to entice me to go), but I will definitely go for S3 now and likely the rest as they release.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Just dawned on me that despite some of the guest villains showing up, Andrew Robinson wasn't in "Far beyond the Stars". Wonder if there is a story behind that.
Cypher
Member
I too also attended the Season 2 celebration at my local Century Theaters, and like with the Season 1 event had a great time! Both "Q-Who?" and "The Measure of a Man" - Extended Cut episodes look fab, and the aural 7.1 mix sounded oh so good! The bloopers and round-table discussion documentary were icing on the cake!
Overall turnout was less than Season 1, perhaps it was due to the rainy weather, but it was still the experience to watch 2 remastered TNG episodes on the big-screen!
Here's a recap of the Season 2 event (not mine):
http://www.startrek.com/article/recap-season-2-tng-in-theater-event
Will definitely be doing these TNG Fathom Events for Seasons 3 through 7!
Davey Cakes
Member
I have to say, they couldn't have picked two better episodes for the Season 2 celebration.
Henchmen21
Banned
Shame they couldn't pick better episodes for the season 1 event.
I don't think any theatre in my area is doing this
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Season 7 showing better be the finale.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It should be the one with Data turning into some kind of sun god and Barclay turning into a spider. Best episodes!
I will be in theaters for sure if they do All Good Things. My local theater does all these special showing things. Like I got to see Ghostbusters back in October. Didn't see it advertised in time which annoyed me but they had Planes Trains and Automobiles for a pre thanksgiving showing. Would have been nice to see that in theaters again
Mama Robotnik
Member
Hope Mama Robotnick will forgive me for making a Star Trek .gif for gaming side. I could not resist.
I know I'm late spotting this, but brilliant work! Perfect use of that scene!
God I miss watching Garak on TV.
