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The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)
- Thread starter Cartman86
- Start date
plagiarize
Banned
Tested have really been the MVPs of VR coverage. I wasn't even aware of them before I discovered their early Gear VR coverage. It's just a shame that Will only pops up every now and then these days since he's making his own VR game... but I'm glad he still drops by.
Apparently double integration with just IMUs will cause drift in the order of meters per second.
Which is why error correcting every 1/60 to 1/100 second is ok!
If you're mining 40 blocks forwards, that would start to get really annoying, really quickly (mine, mine, look down, jump to spot, look back up, mine, mine etc). On PC without VR a player can basically churn through rocks like a drilling machine - having to jump every square would be very slow.
Combat in minecraft/teleportation would also be silly, and exploration wouldn't feel that great either.
I think it's possible to make a great 'minecraft-like' VR game, but you'd probably start with making a world 'work' in VR and go from there.
plagiarize
Banned
I'm sure we'll have a very good idea what PSVR can and can't do in a few hours
I wonder how much you could correct given that you'll know where the headset is when the player is facing away, so you could definitely constrain the move controllers within a particular space relative to that.
That's a really good interview. And it's great to hear that they're working to expand the VR experiences in the Star Wars universe.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
You're right, you can't make it great without designing with VR in mind from the start, so compromises have to be made. A teleportation mechanic that might get annoying is a better compromise than being sick, for those effected by that. Plus you could always resort to analog stick movement in a tight, claustrophobic mining environment. Movement would be kept to a minimum; even the Polygon guy said he felt fine when in a cave.
plagiarize
Banned
Me too. My VR legs are just fine thank you. Let's bring on the extreme stuff.
The guy who made Garry's Mode made a VR demo (don't know if he's making it into a real product) called Chunks that is basically a Minecraft ripoff that uses teleportation and resizing of the user. Perfect for creative mode in Minecraft at least.
I'm sure we'll have a very good idea what PSVR can and can't do in a few hours
I wonder how much you could correct given that you'll know where the headset is when the player is facing away, so you could definitely constrain the move controllers within a particular space relative to that.
Hmmm. Maybe. Some sort of IK rig. But I don't think it'll work too well given that the possible space it could be in without direct camera tracking is fairly large...
I think the real trick is that developers will have to figure out a way to get some turning happening for VR that's seamless and not too motion sickness inducing. There are methods.
plagiarize
Banned
We're expecting a BOAT load of Oculus news tomorrow. AFAIK no one has received an update on their orders yet.
Charles Alan Ratliff
Member
I just updated my credit card information and am hoping they don't suddenly cancel my order because the billing and shipping address no longer match (both are in the same state, though). Only 13 more days to go! I really hope it is at least two-day shipping.
The Elite
BOSS
I am assuming tomorrow is only regarding their launch lineup that was revealed on Sunday but I am hoping shipping updates come with that.
We are less than a fortnight away.
They use software to eliminate the unimportant light. They just ignore anything that doesn't fit a specific RGB range. They've been doing that since the PS2. The "new" twist is making the Nerf-ball-on-a-Bic self-illuminate, so it's always the color they want, and largely immune to other lights shining on it, unlike a real Nerf ball.
And just as with real constellations, they may be hiding among the stars. Similarly, the Move wand may not be the only glowing, purple sphere the camera can see, but if that turns out to be the case, they can just switch to blue instead. So while Oculus may be less likely to encounter interference in the first place, their fixed-wavelength system doesn't really have any way to compensate when they do.
Actually, I was just speculating as to why they used such small markers, given the fact that they're harder to track with a camera. Turns out, while you can make IR bulbs, it's not terribly efficient. These guys use seven IR LEDs to make a marker ~27mm across, and that only doubles the effective tracking range versus a single LED.
http://www.ar-tracking.com/technology/markers/
So I was basically right; it doesn't really work very well. And you're right, it's not particularly attractive either.
Sure, and as discussed, Move's magnetometer worked similarly well in Sony's simulated real-world environments too. The real world doesn't play as nicely though. You already admitted this, so I'm not sure why you're trying to imply otherwise here.
The real point is though, even at that fairly close range pictured, the individual markers don't cover very many pixels, so they shrink to nothingness comparatively quickly. Bigger targets are better, and making bigger targets is easier and prettier, yes when you're using visible light, because you can diffuse it more effectively.
Why do you think oculus went the way they did if large visible spectrum color tracking markers are better? Why would they make it so much more complicated than is apparently necessary?
I like ILM's solution for audio - don't bother with headphones, just have a dedicated room with speakers all around.
edit: When is the embargo up on the Oculus event this past weekend?
Lemonte
Member
shiftplusone
Member
@willsmith
Played a bunch of the launch Oculus games tonight. Lots of stuff to be excited about in there.
Played a bunch of the launch Oculus games tonight. Lots of stuff to be excited about in there.
I think the only official information we have is Wednesday. GDC show floor opens at 10 AM I think so maybe around then?
Not really, why does every type of game need to be shoehorned into VR?
The Elite
BOSS
Who said every type of game?
Minecraft is a huge IP and if it can be successfully executed in VR why wouldn't you do it? Why wouldn't we apply those methods to other games if we had that option? What would it take away from people who don't use VR?
plagiarize
Banned
Palmer said they were demoing loads of Touch stuff at GDC, which starts tomorrow. Launch impressions will also drop as those have been embargoed until tomorrow for the retail Rift and final versions of launch games, but they're still going to be at GDC with a bunch more stuff beyond that.
So yes, BOATLOADS of news tomorrow. Embargoed launch stuff + GDC stuff.
Felix Lighter
Member
From the Elite OT:
That is what I've been desperately waiting for. Goddamn, give it to me!
That is what I've been desperately waiting for. Goddamn, give it to me!
Owlowiscious
Member
Here is Vive Minecraft tangentially done via a game called chunks. https://youtu.be/KWjqzgUVHzw(edit- I see this was already posted. Oh well. )
I think the virtual living room setup is the best route to go. And have a living item that you can place in game to be where you're sitting in the virtual living room. So you can literally build your living room around yourself.
I think the virtual living room setup is the best route to go. And have a living item that you can place in game to be where you're sitting in the virtual living room. So you can literally build your living room around yourself.
Here is another block based toy for the Vive. Some of the scaling that happens in this demo is ludicrously impressive near the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbXieYRvgwo
Dreams-Visions
Member
amazing how a small dev can make some shit as amazing as this looked to play while the Minecraft team with all of their resources continue to struggle.
O_O
amaze
Now I am really hoping that Samsung GVS headset is mustard.
Also, I need to buy some googly eyes.
artsi
Member
To be fair, the Minecraft VR functionality was apparently made by one Mojang guy with John Carmack consulting / helping.
But yeah, it's pretty awesome.
That looks amazing
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yes. I want to play that game, tomorrow.
Doesn't speak very highly of their commitment level, does it. It's not like Mojang is struggling for financial support to do it right.
artsi
Member
Yeah, I agree.
do we expect Oculus to not only be showing launch games, but also games coming for touch? Seems like it would make sense for them to try and provide a counter to vive regarding motion control support. Even if people have to wait 6 months to get hold of it, it would reassure many who currently have oculus preorders, and try and prevent many from cancelling (especially when Vive currently has a much shorter waitlist)
Oculus showed a bunch of games behind closed doors that apparently included Touch titles. We'll hear more tomorrow once the embargo lifts.
Vyse The Legend
Member
It's confirmed that they're showing Touch stuff. We will likely get to see what design tweaks they made to it, too.
Turin Turambar
Member
Yes, I think they will be showing some Touch titles (I read some tweet about it).
Vyse The Legend
Member
Trolling is a no-no, junior.
BlastProcessing
Member
serversurfer
Member
TTP and Klaw, I'll get back to you guys on tracking implementation after the PSVR stuff dies down. Sorry, but I've been sorta busy, so I wasn't really as clear as I could've been. <3
Possibly some other reasons, I suppose, but nothing technical springs to mind, apart from maybe some genuine NIH; basically I've just heard about workarounds they've come up with to make their IR markers easier to spot. I mostly just know what people tell me about on here though. Marks said visible light was a little easier to work with, and pointed to the additional LEDs as simple evidence of this. I've mentioned it here, but I've just been offered the workarounds they've implemented as evidence their system is "more sophisticated" than Sony's, but it just sounds more complicated is all. Now that I've actually done a little thinking and research on the subject, IR being more challenging overall does make sense.
You'd need to ask them why they thought IR would be better, I guess.
/shrug
Clever, but doesn't the fact that the constellation needs to twinkle, "Yes, it's really us," in Morse code simply support my argument that they won't be the only stars in the sky, and further serve as yet another example of shit Sony ain't gotta do?
As I was saying, they can boost the LED output to help compensate. Sure, Vive will cover more edge cases, but Rift's range isn't too far off from what HTC list, IIRC. Once they add the second camera, it should be able to do a reasonably good job at room-scale.
Hard to say. I imagine a large part of it was simply not wanting to be immediately identifiable as a clone of Sony's solution, especially after they explained the delay in revealing a tracking solution by claiming it would be leagues ahead of what anyone else was doing. Plus, Sony's very use of color was widely mocked among "real" gamers; they'd never touch Sony's ghey dildo, so it's probably not a good idea for their hero to try and hand them one.
Possibly some other reasons, I suppose, but nothing technical springs to mind, apart from maybe some genuine NIH; basically I've just heard about workarounds they've come up with to make their IR markers easier to spot. I mostly just know what people tell me about on here though. Marks said visible light was a little easier to work with, and pointed to the additional LEDs as simple evidence of this. I've mentioned it here, but I've just been offered the workarounds they've implemented as evidence their system is "more sophisticated" than Sony's, but it just sounds more complicated is all. Now that I've actually done a little thinking and research on the subject, IR being more challenging overall does make sense.
You'd need to ask them why they thought IR would be better, I guess.
/shrug
Dusktildawn48
Member
Any chance we get some sports games? (Hockey, baseball, football, etc)?
would seem to make sense to port sports champion, but I haven't seen anything of it.
Would also love Tumble by Supermassive
Because of the Minecraft thread i had a question: Is there some knowledge, if walking on the spot has a goof neutralizing effect on Motion Sickness. I only read, that it can help, but no real information, if it actually does anything. Not specific in combination with a control stick, more general.
Dreams-Visions
Member
you know how it is. most are not long for this world.
artsi
Member
Minecraft needs a VR cart. Let players make a small self-powered cart. Job's done.
How is that any different from other solutions having to 'match the wavelength of the light?'
So the 'comparative quickness' with which the LEDs become difficult to track is 'largely irrelevant?'
i think oculus is the best one, psvr the most inferior one.
why?
well have a look: we had sony with their ps move,which was inferior to the wii mote (recalibrating everytime you start the game, neccessity of the camera)
we had ps cam which also is not as good as kinect, never was used as such and well, was sort of shown as such.
and last but not least the last addition such as the light in the ds4 shows that sony somehow lost it when it comes to additional hardware.
so i have high hopes for oculus, but ps-vr seems not as good...
on the other hand... well i will buy all three in the end
why?
well have a look: we had sony with their ps move,which was inferior to the wii mote (recalibrating everytime you start the game, neccessity of the camera)
we had ps cam which also is not as good as kinect, never was used as such and well, was sort of shown as such.
and last but not least the last addition such as the light in the ds4 shows that sony somehow lost it when it comes to additional hardware.
so i have high hopes for oculus, but ps-vr seems not as good...
on the other hand... well i will buy all three in the end
Dreams-Visions
Member
We've seen Golf, Mini Golf and Tennis so far. No doubt others are coming, but i don't know how many of them will feel great without room scale + a sizable room which many do not have available.
I believe there was a soccer demo where you were supposed to head the ball at goal.