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[mrklaw]

i think oculus is the best one, psvr the most inferior one.

why?
well have a look: we had sony with their ps move,which was inferior to the wii mote (recalibrating everytime you start the game, neccessity of the camera)
we had ps cam which also is not as good as kinect, never was used as such and well, was sort of shown as such.
and last but not least the last addition such as the light in the ds4 shows that sony somehow lost it when it comes to additional hardware.

so i have high hopes for oculus, but ps-vr seems not as good...

on the other hand... well i will buy all three in the end

er..

- The wiimote also needed the sensor bar, so no different from needing a camera (which is about the size of the sensor bar)

- PS cam never tried to be kinect. Current PS4 camera is stereo for better tracking of distance.

- the light on the DS4 seemed odd at the time, but was clearly put in there for tracking movement with the camera (either for general camera games or for the PSVR)

 

[Qassim]

i think oculus is the best one, psvr the most inferior one.

why?
well have a look: we had sony with their ps move,which was inferior to the wii mote (recalibrating everytime you start the game, neccessity of the camera)
we had ps cam which also is not as good as kinect, never was used as such and well, was sort of shown as such.
and last but not least the last addition such as the light in the ds4 shows that sony somehow lost it when it comes to additional hardware.

so i have high hopes for oculus, but ps-vr seems not as good...

on the other hand... well i will buy all three in the end

The way I think the is the way to look at PSVR is in a similar way to look at GearVR. It makes compromises to aim for more mainstream adoption early on, to be accessible enough so that more people will be willing to try it.

PSVR may have an inferior tracking system, it may visually look not as good, the power gap between mid to high end gaming PCs and the PS4 may look wider with VR, but that's fine. All the PSVR has to do is offer an experience that is comparable in as many ways as possible to that high end VR, and I think it will be able to do that and it should be more accessible.

I'm not really interested in PSVR.. at all.. because I'm not all that interested in playing games on my consoles. But PSVR is important, I think, so I hope Sony have carefully calculated the balance they've chosen and I hope they don't go too expensive - I think it could be a major driver in the adoption of VR and that, to me, is the most important thing.

 

[mrklaw]

it doesn't have an inferior tracking system vs the rift though - basically the same thing.

I'd say they sit roughly like this, based on what we've heard up to now

comfort: PSVR=OR>Vive. Everyone has commented how comfortable both PSVR and OR are, which are comments you don't get with Vive so much - you hear that it is a little front heavy for instance.

HMD quality: OR>Vive>PSVR. OR seems to have better optical quality, both PC solutions have the same resolution. PSVR seems to have great optics and low screen door, but a lower resolution panel and single screen meaning software-only IPD adjustment can't be ignored

controls: Vive>PSVR>OR. Vive has room tracking and can obviously also support standard PC controllers. PSVR supports motion controllers with move, and even the standard controller (DS4) supports motion and positional tracking. OR bringing up the rear here - ships with an Xbox one controller which is fine but no motion tracking yet. This will likely change once they release Oculus Touch

 

[ashecitism]

VR Mythbusting: Lighthouse Tracking at Lower Heights

Still, for occlusion reasons the higher the better.

 

[mrklaw]

VR Mythbusting: Lighthouse Tracking at Lower Heights

Still, for occlusion reasons the higher the better.

the floor one was the only surprising one. The lighthouses have a 120 degree fov so on the floor you'd only be getting 60 degrees. I suppose if they're far enough away that isn't too much of an issue, but he was testing games that looked to be standing only - walking towards the bounds of the 'wall' set up probably would have caused him to be outside of the tracking area covered by the lighthouses.

Also aren't most of the sensors on the hand controls on the top of it? So lighthouses looking up at it will naturally be more prone to occlusion

 

[mrklaw]

PSVR confirmed for october at $399. Will also let you play normal PS4 games in VR in 'cinematic' mode at 3 different screen sizes.

 

[Mindlog]

PSVR confirmed for october at $399. Will also let you play normal PS4 games in VR in 'cinematic' mode at 3 different screen sizes.

That's a solid price. I can recall others guessing it would be much cheaper with the accessories included.
I desperately want to hear that they're making a new Colony Wars.

 

[mrklaw]

I'm formulating my potential journey through this year for VR.

Get both Vive and OR at launch, enjoy room scale/motion controls with the few games initially out. Sell/return vive and keep the OR as it sounds the most comfortable with better optics. Then get PSVR and oculus touch in Q4 and I can still play the likes of Job Simulator etc.

Of course, if vive totally knocks my socks off when it arrives, then all bets are off

 

[Durante]

Is that PSVR price really without camera/move?

Because I never expected them to sell it that way and that would suck a lot.

 

[Wallach]

Is that PSVR price really without camera/move?

Because I never expected them to sell it that way and that would suck a lot.

Appears to not include either, yeah. I sort of expected the base unit to not come with Move, but not including the camera seems strictly a play at getting the sticker price under $400. It doesn't even function without the camera, does it?

 

[Paganmoon]

Is that PSVR price really without camera/move?

Because I never expected them to sell it that way and that would suck a lot.

From the picture they showed of "everything in the package", the camera was missing.

 

[Cartman86]

From Road to VR - "We're partnering with EA and Lucasfilm to make a Star Wars Battlefront PSVR exclusive experience/title"

Is it a game? By game I don't mean traditional video game. I mean are they making a product that is more than a 10 minute demo?

 

[Durante]

I really expected it to ship with Move controllers.

It would suck for the Vive to be the only VR platform which actually ships with VR controllers out of the box. That just makes it more likely for developers to not be able to design completely around the assumption of having tracked VR controls available.

My ideal scenario was that PSVR would include move controllers and that the Rift would be the only system left without default VR controllers, and that Oculus would rectify that shortly after the Touch release.

:/

 

[mrklaw]

Appears to not include either, yeah. I sort of expected the base unit to not come with Move, but not including the camera seems strictly a play at getting the sticker price under $400. It doesn't even function without the camera, does it?

"we worked really hard to bring PSVR to market at a competitive price"

insert gif of annoyed cat swiping moves and camera onto the floor.



I don't mind so much. I'm sure they'll put a clear notice on the box and train retail. And they'll ensure stocks of cameras (and maybe even moves) are available.

This keeps the headline price down, and plenty of people already have a camera. Maybe they did some research that showed the demographic for those that bought the camera overlaps significantly with those that are likely to buy into PSVR initially?

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Any chance we get some sports games? (Hockey, baseball, football, etc)?

VR Sports Challenge has Hockey, American Football, Baseball and Basketball.

I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen bowling and Table Tennis yet. A bunch of mini-golf though, which seems like a good fit.

 

[Arulan]

That's the price I predicted albeit I thought they would include the camera and move controllers as well. At least it puts to rest those silly predictions stating it's nothing but cheap sensors and a panel, and expecting $200-250.

Price-aside, it's disappointing that the move controllers aren't included. The DS4 can be tracked, but it's entirely unintuitive for VR, and potentially limiting game design. You want to be able to use your hands independently, grab, and interact with objects. For the record I think Oculus is making the same mistake not shipping with Touch.

Edit: Durante beat me to it.

 

[mrklaw]

I really expected it to ship with Move controllers.

It would suck for the Vive to be the only VR platform which actually ships with VR controllers out of the box. That just makes it more likely for developers to not be able to design completely around the assumption of having tracked VR controls available.

My ideal scenario was that PSVR would include move controllers and that the Rift would be the only system left without default VR controllers, and that Oculus would rectify that shortly after the Touch release.

:/

OR - you can only guarantee users have an xbox one controller but they have the option to buy touch later on.

Vive - you can only guarantee users have wands, but they have the option to buy an xbox controller, and these are common enough that you can safely develop for Vive and require a controller for input I think

PSVR - you can only guarantee users have DS4 but at least these are trackable. They also have the option to buy moves (and hopefully sony will put them on sale in nice shiny PSVR boxes). I think there are enough moves out there and they are affordable enough that devs will port motion required games to PSVR - Job Simulator already announced and others will come too.

I think you're worrying too much. I know you love motion controls and room scale and want more people to have access to it, but inside 12 months all three platforms will have access to motion controls, and if motion controls are genuinely so compelling, consumers will upgrade to that.

I think the early audience will absolutely be early adopters so I hope you'll get a much higher percentage uptake of motion controls than you might think. Enough that devs won't be scared to produce games that require motion control for all three platforms.

 

[Paganmoon]

I really expected it to ship with Move controllers.

It would suck for the Vive to be the only VR platform which actually ships with VR controllers out of the box. That just makes it more likely for developers to not be able to design completely around the assumption of having tracked VR controls available.

My ideal scenario was that PSVR would include move controllers and that the Rift would be the only system left without default VR controllers, and that Oculus would rectify that shortly after the Touch release.

:/

One can hope they update the packagin until October. Then again, some (many) already have move controllers, and don't need more, so they might feel the need to have a headset only bundle.

 

[Stampy]

I really expected it to ship with Move controllers.

It would suck for the Vive to be the only VR platform which actually ships with VR controllers out of the box. That just makes it more likely for developers to not be able to design completely around the assumption of having tracked VR controls available.

My ideal scenario was that PSVR would include move controllers and that the Rift would be the only system left without default VR controllers, and that Oculus would rectify that shortly after the Touch release.

:/

For it to work they will most likely have bundles with camera or with move controllers, and with move and cammera. I mean it was only logical to announce the lowest price.

Are some people here really sugesting they shouldn't have released a headseat without cammera? And pimping that price is pure marketing nothing else...

 

[GeoGonzo]

Well, Sony was in a bit of a damned if they do, damned if they don't: It was probably a choice between a lower price point (fragmenting the user base) or bundling motion controllers (higher price, and a bit or a dick move towards current move users). I'm slightly disappointed but who knows, motion controllers may become ubiquitous anyway. I was also hoping it would be a bit sooner than october, but... oh well.

 

[Cartman86]

I have a camera and a ton of Move controllers so it won't affect me, but it's never good to hide hidden costs from consumers. Hopefully it will be obvious to people.

 

[Dartastic]

Asked this in another thread, but what's the comparison with PS VR and Oculus in terms of tech specs? The resolution shown for PSVR is confusing to me, as I don't know what 960 x RGB x 1080 means.

 

[Zalusithix]

Vive - you can only guarantee users have wands, but they have the option to buy an xbox controller, and these are common enough that you can safely develop for Vive and require a controller for input I think

With the Vive you can assume they'll at least have a mouse and keyboard. A controller isn't really needed, though they likely will have that as well.

 

[mrklaw]

Asked this in another thread, but what's the comparison with PS VR and Oculus in terms of tech specs?

PSVR is single screen 1080p OLED 120Hz/90Hz
OR is twin screen 1200x1080 per screen, OLED 90Hz

the RGB is Sony trying to complicate things. Just means that each pixel in the PSVR has three sub-pixels (red/green/blue). You'd think that would be normal, but the OR is suggested to have a pentile display which means you get shared subpixels so theoretically you get a lower effective resolution. But I think you'd be hard pushed to notice it.

Both very similar tracking via camera and external LEDs on the HMD. OR ships with an xbox one controller, PSVR obviously uses the DS4 or supports move for motion controls. OR gets motion controls later in the year

 

[Vyse The Legend]

PSVR is single screen 1080p OLED 120Hz/90Hz
OR is twin screen 1200x1080 per screen, OLED 90Hz

Both very similar tracking via camera and external LEDs on the HMD. OR ships with an xbox one controller, PSVR obviously uses the DS4 or supports move for motion controls. OR gets motion controls later in the year

Also, PSVR has a smaller field of view (100 vs. OR's 110)

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Asked this in another thread, but what's the comparison with PS VR and Oculus in terms of tech specs?

All of the specs are in the op

Oculus Rift - Two OLED 90 Hz displays, 2160x1200 resolution (1080x1200 per eye), 110 degree FOV
Includes a build-in mic and headphones, accelerometer, gyroscope, magnetometer, and 360-degree positional tracking.
Adjustable IPD and ships with "Multiple Facial Interfaces" for glasses users
Constellation Camera (100x70 FOV)
Xbox One Controller and Touch Motion support (at a later date)

PSVR – One 5.7 inch OLED 60-120 Hz display, 1920x1080 resolution (960x1080 per eye), 100 degree FOV
Includes a built-in mic, accelerometer, gyroscope, and 360-degree positional tracking
PlayStation 4 Camera (72x45 FOV)
Dual Shock 4 and PlayStation Move controller support (not included)

 

[Dartastic]

PSVR is single screen 1080p OLED 120Hz/90Hz
OR is twin screen 1200x1080 per screen, OLED 90Hz

the RGB is Sony trying to complicate things. Just means that each pixel in the PSVR has three sub-pixels (red/green/blue). You'd think that would be normal, but the OR is suggested to have a pentile display which means you get shared subpixels so theoretically you get a lower effective resolution. But I think you'd be hard pushed to notice it.

Both very similar tracking via camera and external LEDs on the HMD. OR ships with an xbox one controller, PSVR obviously uses the DS4 or supports move for motion controls. OR gets motion controls later in the year

Thanks, that was very helpful. The thing I'm most concerned about is the screen door effect; it SHOULD be noticeably better on the Rift than on the PSVR, right? I used the PSVR last year at PAX and it was probably the largest issue for me, in addition to being able to see out the bottom of the unit.

 

[taoofjord]

I do find it strange how many people seem disinterested in room scale and touch/move. To me, VR without those are far less interesting. What's the deal? Are the people not interested in roomscale just those without the required space? Is it a worry that the core games we already love will become less common? Or are they the skeptics that haven't tried it yet?

 

[Durante]

OR - you can only guarantee users have an xbox one controller but they have the option to buy touch later on.

Vive - you can only guarantee users have wands, but they have the option to buy an xbox controller, and these are common enough that you can safely develop for Vive and require a controller for input I think

PSVR - you can only guarantee users have DS4 but at least these are trackable. They also have the option to buy moves (and hopefully sony will put them on sale in nice shiny PSVR boxes). I think there are enough moves out there and they are affordable enough that devs will port motion required games to PSVR - Job Simulator already announced and others will come too.

I think you're worrying too much. I know you love motion controls and room scale and want more people to have access to it, but inside 12 months all three platforms will have access to motion controls, and if motion controls are genuinely so compelling, consumers will upgrade to that.

I think the early audience will absolutely be early adopters so I hope you'll get a much higher percentage uptake of motion controls than you might think. Enough that devs won't be scared to produce games that require motion control for all three platforms.

I hope you are right. I'm still a bit disappointed, I really expected Sony to provide a complete package given how much they used Move in their previous VR showings. But I guess sticker price is really important.

Thanks, that was very helpful. The thing I'm most concerned about is the screen door effect; it SHOULD be noticeably better on the Rift than on the PSVR, right? I used the PSVR last year at PAX and it was probably the largest issue for me, in addition to being able to see out the bottom of the unit.

It's probably not too much better, since although there are more pixels they are also spread across a larger FoV (that should fix your "seeing out at the bottom" issue though).

From impressions it does seem like the consumer Rift has the least SDE, probably also due to smart optical design. But all first-gen consumer HMDs will have some SDE.

 

[Wrestlemania]

It's a shame they didn't take the opportunity to design some new VR controllers. The Move controllers have no sticks, so they don't have parity with the Touch/Vive controllers which have sticks/touchpads.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

I do find it strange how many people seem disinterested in room scale and touch/move. To me, VR without those are far less interesting. What's the deal? Are the people not interested in roomscale just those without the required space? Is it a worry that the core games we already love will become less common? Or are they the skeptics that haven't tried it yet?

Some people see VR as an accessory like a racing wheel or a HOTAS to enhance their cockpit games. Others, like me, just don't have the space. I'm not disinterested or skeptical though; I'm well aware that it's likely a fantastic experience and I want to try it. I'll probably move my PC to a bigger room every so often to give it a go, but for the most part I'll be playing in my office which gives me enough space to maybe take one step in any direction.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I do find it strange how many people seem disinterested in room scale and touch/move. To me, VR without those are far less interesting. What's the deal? Are the people not interested in roomscale just those without the required space? Is it a worry that the core games we already love will become less common? Or are they the skeptics that haven't tried it yet?

Two things:

1. People don't have the space -- or rather don't want to make the space.
2. They haven't tried room-scale yet, so they don't realize how big of a difference it is.

Beyond that, I agree with you. I've had a DK2 for a year+, and the presence is definitely HOLY SHIT good but the first thing I always want to do is get up and actually BE in the space. Every time I realize that I'm tethered to the seat holding a controller, the illusion breaks.

 

[Dartastic]

It's probably not too much better, since although there are more pixels they are also spread across a larger FoV (that should fix your "seeing out at the bottom" issue though).

From impressions it does seem like the consumer Rift has the least SDE, probably also due to smart optical design. But all first-gen consumer HMDs will have some SDE.

Yeah, I figured that it might not be TOO much better, but it definitely is the largest issue for me. As for my "seeing out the bottom" issue, I meant literally I could see the outside world when I looked down while wearing a PS VR headset. I used to think that it was because of my glasses, but now I'm not sure as there was some recent article stating that they designed the headset that way to prevent sickness or something like that... can't remember the specifics, wish I could. :/

 

[inner-G]

All of the specs are in the op

Oculus Rift - 1080x1200 per eye

PSVR – 960x1080 per eye

I can't believe how close they are in this regard. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I do find it strange how many people seem disinterested in room scale and touch/move. To me, VR without those are far less interesting. What's the deal? Are the people not interested in roomscale just those without the required space? Is it a worry that the core games we already love will become less common? Or are they the skeptics that haven't tried it yet?

Room scale is exciting, but out of reach for most.
Motion controllers are really what makes VR exciting, far more than the room scale stuff, and something that the majority should easily be able to experience at home, so I don't think people should be disinterested in it.

 

[Blanquito]

I hope you are right. I'm still a bit disappointed, I really expected Sony to provide a complete package given how much they used Move in their previous VR showings. But I guess sticker price is really important.

Yeah, I was also disappointed by that as well. I thought for sure the camera at least would be included, since we've seen sales for it for as low as $30 before.

 

[Qassim]

The price of the PSVR actually really hammers home the idea that the Rift is actually pretty well priced when you consider the camera isn't included with the PSVR and what is included in the Rift and the more expensive construction of the Rift HMD.

Assuming the camera stays the same price it currently is (which it could increase now that there is a demand for it and stores aren't just trying to get rid of stock), the PSVR will only be about £100 - £110 cheaper than the Rift and I think that price difference is not unreasonable on the side of Rift, especially when you consider Sony can make more riskier moves in terms of subsidising hardware due to the absolutely closed nature of their platform (game sales will *always* result in a profit for Sony).

 

[iceatcs]

3D body tracking will come back if VR success. The wand controllers will be a short life again.

 

[Zalusithix]

I can't believe how close they are in this regard. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Even with the exact same display, the PC solution should have the illusion of higher resolution in a like for like situation. Comes down to having enough spare power to employ supersampling and such.

3D body tracking will come back if VR success. The wand controllers will be a short life again.

Tracking an entire body with no occlusion and the accuracy needed to fool the brain will require wearing a full suit of sensors. I really don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Chumpion]

Yeah, the wand controllers are about as elegant as attaching a hook to your arm.

 

[Paganmoon]

Even with the exact same display, the PC solution should have the illusion of higher resolution in a like for like situation. Comes down to having enough spare power to employ supersampling and such.



Tracking an entire body with no occlusion and the accuracy needed to fool the brain will require wearing a full suit of sensors. I really don't see that happening any time soon.

The PC solution -could- have higher resolution and supersampling, but the machines that will be able to manage that are few and far inbetween, I don't think there are 40 million TitanX/980ti/FuryX out there.

You should compare the specs of the headsets as is, and not with whats attached/running it, as on the PC side it could be anything from a 970 to Titan X in SLI.

 

[marjo]

It looks to me like all 3 VR systems (PSVR, Rift, Vive) are fairly priced for what you get.

 

[Monger]

3D body tracking will come back if VR success. The wand controllers will be a short life again.

Maybe, but the act of shooting, opening a door, swinging a sword or any other action with an object in your hand would seem really weird if it's just your body and there's no resistance or feedback. We're going to have to have toyboxes with various objects we pull out as analogs. "I didn't know you have kids." I don't, it's for my video games.

 

[Dreamwriter]

The PC solution -could- have higher resolution and supersampling, but the machines that will be able to manage that are few and far inbetween, I don't think there are 40 million TitanX/980ti/FuryX out there.

You should compare the specs of the headsets as is, and not with whats attached/running it, as on the PC side it could be anything from a 970 to Titan X in SLI.

Yes, but a PC that meets Oculus' minimum specs (like a 970) is quite a bit more powerful than a PS4, so the PC solution will have a solid 90fps in all games at a higher resolution. The PS4 will be no slouch, I'm assuming (and most demos so far back this up) most VR games will look like PS3 games which is just fine, but PC will have (as usual) the higher quality graphics on average.

 

[Dreamwriter]

From impressions it does seem like the consumer Rift has the least SDE, probably also due to smart optical design. But all first-gen consumer HMDs will have some SDE.

Really? I thought I had read that PSVR has no noticeable SDE.

 

[mrklaw]

Yes, but a PC that meets Oculus' minimum specs (like a 970) is quite a bit more powerful than a PS4, so the PC solution will have a solid 90fps in all games at a higher resolution. The PS4 will be no slouch, I'm assuming (and most demos so far back this up) most VR games will look like PS3 games which is just fine, but PC will have (as usual) the higher quality graphics on average.

Weren't there some comments from epic(?) that a 970 equipped PC wouldn't be a big jump ahead of PSVR because of things like the higher resolution screen on the rift/vive, and the need to drive it at 90Hz, when PSVR can go down to 60 (although sony are recommending aiming higher)

Edit: 2160x1200x90 is about 233m pixels per second for vive/OR. 1920x1089x60 is about 124m pixels per second for PSVR

 

[Arulan]

The PC solution -could- have higher resolution and supersampling, but the machines that will be able to manage that are few and far inbetween, I don't think there are 40 million TitanX/980ti/FuryX out there.

You should compare the specs of the headsets as is, and not with whats attached/running it, as on the PC side it could be anything from a 970 to Titan X in SLI.

It's not could, SteamVR already recommends you use a ~1.4 scaler. That is a frame buffer of 1512x1680 for each eye. I believe Oculus is doing something similar. I thought PSVR was also doing some minor scaling but I don't know for sure.

 

[Paganmoon]

Really? I thought I had read that PSVR has no noticeable SDE.

PSVR uses Full RGB display, so it should have little to none. On the demo I got to test back in September (BattleZoneVR), I noticed none.

It's not could, SteamVR already recommends you use a ~1.4 scaler. That is a frame buffer of 1512x1680 for each eye. I believe Oculus is doing something similar. I thought PSVR was also doing some minor scaling but I don't know for sure.

I don't see the 970 being able to dish out 1512x1680 at 90hz times two, and beat PSVR in graphics, as Dreamwriter suggests. Best is, if you want to compare the devices, is to compare the HMD devices, and not what's running them, as they can be so vastly different on the PC side.

Edit: Not to mention, the Vive and Occulus having different requirements, and recommendations.

 

[mrklaw]

It's not could, SteamVR already recommends you use a ~1.4 scaler. That is a frame buffer of 1512x1680 for each eye. I believe Oculus is doing something similar. I thought PSVR was also doing some minor scaling but I don't know for sure.

I think Sony recommended something similar




Anyway, PC always has the option to pay more for more power. PSVR seems to be a solid system and should provide a compelling experience for those that buy it

 

[taoofjord]

Holy crap, just watched this video by Anton Hand where he demos a shotgun and a pistol being physically loaded with the motion controllers. Super impressive stuff even though it's just a tech demo sort of thing. I can't wait to see this sort of stuff implemented in a game.

Checkout how he closes the shotgun using the table at 5:40 instead of using his other hand like he does the rest of the time, or how he catches the ejected shells, or how you can slide the magazine into the gun. I love this sort of attention to detail being simulated.