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[Kevin]

For those with any of the VR sets, how playable are games like Adr1ft, Vanishing of Ethan Carter and other games where you move around with a joystick?

Does it work well enough? Better then using a monitor or is it a broken experience that feels off?

I was hoping that I would enjoy games like those when I get my Vive. Was more interested in stuff like that then any other kind of VR game.

 

[FlyinJ]

For those with any of the VR sets, how playable are games like Adr1ft, Vanishing of Ethan Carter and other games where you move around with a joystick?

Does it work well enough? Better then using a monitor or is it a broken experience that feels off?

I was hoping that I would enjoy games like those when I get my Vive. Was more interested in stuff like that then any other kind of VR game.

I haven't tried Adrift, but Vanishing makes me pretty sick after a few minutes.

Any FPS game using a traditional controller movement paradigm makes a ton of people motion sick.

Adrift may be better, as you are floating and not "walking" on a ground plane. I've done a few first person floating demos using a controller to move around and they didn't make me sick.

 

[Kevin]

I haven't tried Adrift, but Vanishing makes me pretty sick after a few minutes.

Any FPS game using a traditional controller movement paradigm makes a ton of people motion sick.

Adrift may be better, as you are floating and not "walking" on a ground plane. I've done a few first person floating demos using a controller to move around and they didn't make me sick.

Yeah that sounds pretty damn awful. I mean was it cool before you felt sick or did it feel, "off" from the very beginning?

 

[cleveridea]

Ouch. That tested comparison really makes me want to cancel my Vive preorder and just wait on an Oculus.

By far my biggest concern with Vive is that looking at videos at available content its almost entirely demo type applications. Thats great, but on my Gear VR I loved the stuff that showed off VR the most but quickly became bored, and my favorite app by far was a real Action RPG game - because I actually enjoyed it as a game, not just a tech demo.

I dont see anything on Vive that looks remotely as good as Chronos for example. That looks like an amazing game that I would love to play through entirely (eg I would buy it as a regular non VR game if that was the only way to buy it). Eve Valkyrie also looks superb. For Vive, the only game that really interested me is Elite Dangerous which is on both platforms I believe. (I dont like puzzle games). I really dont understand this, its like Valve had this as a side project versus something really central to their business - why isnt there a portal sequel for example, that should be cheap to make versus a full Half Life 3 for example.

My issue here is that every review I have seen has made the PSVR the most comfortable, oculus second and vive last. My experience with Gear VR tells me that comfort is an extremely important consideration, and its quite disheartening when that tested review mentions just 10 minutes into a game its an issue.

From tested it sounded like you CAN extend the cable for oculus so it will have room scale and motion tracking when the tech becomes available.

 

[Kevin]

Ouch. That tested comparison really makes me want to cancel my Vive preorder and just wait on an Oculus.

By far my biggest concern with Vive is that looking at videos at available content its almost entirely demo type applications. Thats great, but on my Gear VR I loved the stuff that showed off VR the most but quickly became bored, and my favorite app by far was a real Action RPG game - because I actually enjoyed it as a game, not just a tech demo.

I dont see anything on Vive that looks remotely as good as Chronos for example. That looks like an amazing game that I would love to play through entirely (eg I would buy it as a regular non VR game if that was the only way to buy it). Eve Valkyrie also looks superb. For Vive, the only game that really interested me is Elite Dangerous which is on both platforms I believe. (I dont like puzzle games). I really dont understand this, its like Valve had this as a side project versus something really central to their business - why isnt there a portal sequel for example, that should be cheap to make versus a full Half Life 3 for example.

My issue here is that every review I have seen has made the PSVR the most comfortable, oculus second and vive last. My experience with Gear VR tells me that comfort is an extremely important consideration, and its quite disheartening when that tested review mentions just 10 minutes into a game its an issue.

From tested it sounded like you CAN extend the cable for oculus so it will have room scale and motion tracking when the tech becomes available.

Which Tested video are you referring to? Have a link handy?

 

[Ionic]

Which Tested video are you referring to? Have a link handy?

Presumably the Oculus vs. Vive video they recently did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBieKwa2ID0

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Ouch. That tested comparison really makes me want to cancel my Vive preorder and just wait on an Oculus.

By far my biggest concern with Vive is that looking at videos at available content its almost entirely demo type applications. Thats great, but on my Gear VR I loved the stuff that showed off VR the most but quickly became bored, and my favorite app by far was a real Action RPG game - because I actually enjoyed it as a game, not just a tech demo.

I dont see anything on Vive that looks remotely as good as Chronos for example. That looks like an amazing game that I would love to play through entirely (eg I would buy it as a regular non VR game if that was the only way to buy it). Eve Valkyrie also looks superb. For Vive, the only game that really interested me is Elite Dangerous which is on both platforms I believe. (I dont like puzzle games). I really dont understand this, its like Valve had this as a side project versus something really central to their business - why isnt there a portal sequel for example, that should be cheap to make versus a full Half Life 3 for example.

My issue here is that every review I have seen has made the PSVR the most comfortable, oculus second and vive last. My experience with Gear VR tells me that comfort is an extremely important consideration, and its quite disheartening when that tested review mentions just 10 minutes into a game its an issue.

From tested it sounded like you CAN extend the cable for oculus so it will have room scale and motion tracking when the tech becomes available.

I'm sorry but what? Cheap? I don't think you understand the costs associated with developing a new, full length game with the scope of Portal. Sure, something of the scale of the first one wouldn't be so bad, but frankly after something with the high level of polish and size the sequel got I don't think anyone is interested in going back to something simpler, and neither would Valve for that matter. Listen, I'd love for them to do a new game and go full hog on VR integration but they aren't just going to slap it on something with regular gamepad controls, they know full well that doesn't work well for VR.

I can see them doing a hybrid, something that's split between different styles of input to reach a broader audience so they're not pouring everything into a VR only game with limited ability to recoup dev costs, but that would likely be a nightmare to plan for in pre-production. Again don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them tackle a full on game cause it's just bananas the level of graphical detail and polish you see on everything in The Lab compared to the other launch games on offer for the Vive, but I definitely understand why they don't have that kind of game ready to go at the beginning.

To be fair Chronos has been in development for longer than likely any of the Vive launch games, and has fixed camera angles and is a gamepad title. Kinda apples to oranges there. This is the beginning of consumer room scale VR, it's to be expected out of the gate that there will be a lot of prototype-ish, arcadey, and minigame oriented fare available over anything big budget. Give it time and the library will grow. But yes, if you absolutely have to buy in now and more traditional style games are up your alley Oculus is probably the way to go.

 

[serversurfer]

Sounds like you'd benefit from another category - redirected walking, large room.

Sure, but I'd probably break things down even more simply to using walking around in meatspace to effect movement in cyberspace, or not. Seems like if that's your solution, then the design of your experience will be limited both by the amount of physical space actually available and the physical abilities of the users themselves.

It's easy to come up with fun uses for room scale - standing around a tabletop game with friends (shown as models of Civ leaders thanks to inverse kinematics), virtual pool table. I wouldn't agree that they lack lasting appeal.

Yes, I had the same fantasy within a couple of minutes of hearing about room scale tracking, but think it through a little more. As you shuffle your way around the table, leaning in to get a better view, can you really argue that you're having any more fun than I am as I ratchet my way around the table, leaning in to get a better look, all from the comfort and safety of my massage chair, which has a cup holder? If not, then what have you really gained by clearing out your room?

You're saying people are thinking too small, but it's just dealing with the realities of players lacking warehouses and battery powered backpack PCs. Lots of room for high end attractions like that to happen, but I'd expect those to be run by dedicated companies.

Agreed, and we'll equate such businesses with arcade owners of yore. While it was certainly possible to put an arcade cabinet in your own home, only a tiny handful of people actually bothered to do so, and sticking a cabinet in the corner of your rec room is more practical than emptying it to facilitate room scale. So who will even write software for such an audience, and how much will they need to earn per copy?

For your stair climbing example, how would you approach it in your warehouse? As a player, I'd probably just put up with the flat surface while climbing the virtual incline as a constraint of not having a free-moving robotic treadmill to provide satisfactory resistance in all directions. Another option (for an attraction, not a home) would be having players climb over real structures matching those dimensions and just have the visualization in VR. That carries some additional safety requirements of course.

In a commercial installation, you erect temporary obstacles that serve as a physical backing for the artificial reality they've created, evoking a sense of presence you can't even imagine. Remember the spider walls from the chaperone mode? The real, physical walls of my haunted house are covered in spiders. Sure, but they're not covered with real, physical spiders, right? No, but they are covered with real, physical curtains of compressed air, so when you finally do accidentally lean against one, you can physically feel the virtual spiders as they swarm up your arm and leap on to your face.

Book your tour now, before the coroner shuts us down again.

 

[Raticus79]

Ok, so what about the pool table?

As you shuffle your way around the table, leaning in to get a better view, can you really argue that you're having any more fun than I am as I ratchet my way around the table, leaning in to get a better look, all from the comfort and safety of my massage chair, which has a cup holder? If not, then what have you really gained by clearing out your room?

How do you plan to move your chair around the virtual table without a clear room? Just talking about moving your avatar using a controller/keys and leaning around in your stationary chair? If so, I'd say that loses something in the integrity (continuity?) of the experience.

So who will even write software for such an audience, and how much will they need to earn per copy?

Similar to the current theme parks implementing VR on real coasters, I'd expect - private contracts for custom implementations, not put on a marketplace.

In a commercial installation, you erect temporary obstacles that serve as a physical backing for the artificial reality they've created, evoking a sense of presence you can't even imagine.

To be fair, I did just suggest a form of physical backing, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch for me to imagine. Good idea with the compressed air spiders. There's a lot of opportunity to reuse similar techniques from Disney attractions.

 

[Defect]

So why didn't they at least include an analog stick for movement? I feel like that's the one thing they are missing. I've seen that some of the games rely on teleporting to get to places since you can't physically walk there.

Is this going to be a problem? I don't have the Vive yet.

 

[Fret]

So why didn't they at least include an analog stick for movement? I feel like that's the one thing they are missing. I've seen that some of the games rely on teleporting to get to places since you can't physically walk there.

Is this going to be a problem? I don't have the Vive yet.

Have you used a steam controller? The touch pads on the Vive controllers can be used as analog sticks.

 

[Defect]

Have you used a steam controller? The touch pads on the Vive controllers can be used as analog sticks.

Ah, had no idea.

 

[Crispy75]

So why didn't they at least include an analog stick for movement? I feel like that's the one thing they are missing.

Because that sort of movement, decoupled from your inner ear's sense of motion, is a short cut to instant motion sickness. The teleporting system is (so far) the only way to move around a large space without triggering this response.

 

[Durante]

Here is a Venn diagram on the whole topic of game design for VR:

Basically, the major limitations compared to screen design are introduced in any form of VR. Successively more capable interaction systems then allow for more entirely new experiences.

So why didn't they at least include an analog stick for movement?

You can emulate an analog stick with the pads, but I don't think it will be a common use case. Because traditional movement (which is the only thing an analog stick is arguably better for than the touchpads) will make a great many people sick.

 

[Raticus79]

I think there could still be some value in thumb sticks for analog input in cockpit-based games. It's nice to have that spring feedback.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I would definitely rather have at least one analogue stick. I really like the pad on the steam controller for mimicking a mouse, but that's not something you really need in VR. I also think they feel pretty terrible as an analogue stick replacement.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Because that sort of movement, decoupled from your inner ear's sense of motion, is a short cut to instant motion sickness. The teleporting system is (so far) the only way to move around a large space without triggering this response.

So far I've had no motion sickness at all from using a stick to move around. Analogue stick turning feels more weird than movement, but still didn't make me feel sick.

 

[mrklaw]

For the types of games that might benefit from a stick, just use a 360 controller

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Seems New Retro Arcade will be released soon for Oculus 1.3:

We've already got 1.3 in the works but probably won't be able to add Vive support until we can get one of the Vive headsets. I don't know if Vive support on a basic level will just 'work' because we're on UE4 4.11, but proper room support, better movement and motion controllers will need a bit more work I believe.

Hey! Dec from Digital Cybercherries here, we currently have a working 1.3 build of NewRetroArcade we just have a bunch of little fixes to make what with UE4 4.11 and the new methods for moving around in VR.
It may take us a bit longer to find time while trying to work on HYPERCHARGE but I'd like to implement some form of teleport movement feature and remove 'walk' movement altogether.
In the future i'd also like to get ahold of a Vive to add support for proper motion controllers. Managed to snag a Leap Motion so might look to adding support for that. Not sure how far we'll implement the support for these things, as physically pressing the arcade buttons and moving the actual joysticks using a motion controller might not work too well. (If anyone has a spare Vive or CV1 lying around that'd help greatly. Haha)
But yeah, not long now people!

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4ekda3/newretroarcade_do_we_know_if_there_will_be_a_13/

 

[EVIL]

So why didn't they at least include an analog stick for movement? I feel like that's the one thing they are missing. I've seen that some of the games rely on teleporting to get to places since you can't physically walk there.

Is this going to be a problem? I don't have the Vive yet.

stick movement is something that will make you sick in VR. for now, until we have a better way to remove motion sickness, teleportation or cockpit games it will be. motionsickness is still a huge hurdle and using room scale and teleportation is one way to remove motionsickness almost completely. So since motionsickness make people feel seriously sick for up to 2/3 hours, its a much better idea to play it safe.

 

[Tain]

Seems New Retro Arcade will be released soon for Oculus 1.3:





https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4ekda3/newretroarcade_do_we_know_if_there_will_be_a_13/

Nice, one of my favorite DK2 demos. Would be nice to try with proper game speeds.

 

[Wrestlemania]

stick movement is something that will make you sick in VR. for now, until we have a better way to remove motion sickness, teleportation or cockpit games it will be. motionsickness is still a huge hurdle and using room scale and teleportation is one way to remove motionsickness almost completely. So since motionsickness make people feel seriously sick for up to 2/3 hours, its a much better idea to play it safe.

May make you sick. As I said, I've been playing Ethan Carter with no feeling of sickness from the free movement.

 

[gmoran]

Here is a Venn diagram on the whole topic of game design for VR:


Basically, the major limitations compared to screen design are introduced in any form of VR. Successively more capable interaction systems then allow for more entirely new experiences.

You can emulate an analog stick with the pads, but I don't think it will be a common use case. Because traditional movement (which is the only thing an analog stick is arguably better for than the touchpads) will make a great many people sick.

And I think the "answer" that serversurfer is trying to get to is where is that sweetspot for gameplay gain balanced against roomscale cost.

Which of course we don't know yet, and I think will take quite some time to become apparent.

Mr Klaw talked about 360 standing, and that may well end up being the sweetspot.

Now if you were a "betting man" where would you place your money for 5 years time?

Finally, we are lucky Valve came to the conclusion that roomscale was necessary, as now we get to play with that solution for some period, it stretches the rest of the industry, and shows what's possible.

 

[Zalusithix]

And I think the "answer" that serversurfer is trying to get to is where is that sweetspot for gameplay gain balanced against roomscale cost.

Which of course we don't know yet, and I think will take quite some time to become apparent.

Mr Klaw talked about 360 standing, and that may well end up being the sweetspot.

Now if you were a "betting man" where would you place your money for 5 years time?

Finally, we are lucky Valve came to the conclusion that roomscale was necessary, as now we get to play with that solution for some period, it stretches the rest of the industry, and shows what's possible.

Given roomscale is a functional superset of standing 360, any game designed for standing 360 can rather easily be expanded to roomscale and benefit from it. It's just the addition of natural locomotion to artificial. As a technology, there's very few reasons to not support room scale where possible.

 

[serversurfer]

I think we should pause to agree on terminology, because room scale seems to mean different things to different people. Some seem to feel room scale and motion controls are strictly monogamous partners. Some feel like it's all about physical locomotion, while others feel it's simply a description of tracking capabilities.

I feel they're all mostly separate things. I'd say room scale tracking would be anything which allows reasonably free movement within a given volume; highly occlusion-resistant tracking and the ability to take more than a step or two in any given direction. Motion control should be treated as granular feature, because it's available-yet-optional whether you're seated, standing, or wandering around. Physical locomotion is also fairly distinct functionality, though it obviously requires both room scale tracking and a volume sufficient to contain the experience in question.

Howzzat sound?

Ok, so what about the pool table?

Well, I actually have a Move-enabled pool game for PS3, but I never got around to playing it, because after buying it, I decided it probably sucked. lol First and foremost, there's no physical table, leaving you nothing to lean on to line up your shots. I suspect that presence will cause people to promptly forget there's really no table — especially after a few beers — causing them to fall flat on their face. Plus, there's the fact that you're actually using a pair of wands rather than a cue, so you don't have the weight of an actual cue in your hands, and I'm not really sure how you'd keep the wands properly aligned with one another. I suspect such a task is effectively impossible, meaning the game is basically cheating for (or against) you. Finally, in the same vein as a lack of physical cue is the lack of physical balls, so again, the haptic feedback that is vital proper play is instead completely absent. Granted, you could get regulation props and rig up a system to track the balls as they bounce around the table, but then how do you match the results on your online partner's table?

So, I pretty much just stuck to disc golf and bocci because they were both pretty awesome. I take it you're telling me I should fire up the PS3 and give ghost pool a fair shake? lol

How do you plan to move your chair around the virtual table without a clear room? Just talking about moving your avatar using a controller/keys and leaning around in your stationary chair? If so, I'd say that loses something in the integrity (continuity?) of the experience.

Yes, I'm sitting in a physical chair in meatspace. From your perspective playing with me online, everything would appear fairly normal apart from the fact that I relocate my body unnaturally quickly compared to those of you trudging around in meatspace, as effortlessly as I'd relocate my Diet Coke, and in much the same fashion. You'll get used to seeing it though.

If we're using full avatars rather than floating heads and hands, you'd either see me standing next to you, or floating next to you in my hover-chair — head-aligned, of course — depending on my actual meatspace pose.

Similar to the current theme parks implementing VR on real coasters, I'd expect - private contracts for custom implementations, not put on a marketplace.

Sorry, I was actually asking who would be willing to make software for home users, given the assumption that the total number of users looking for a watered down version of the "arcade" experience in their own home would be pretty low.

To be fair, I did just suggest a form of physical backing, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch for me to imagine.

You most certainly did, yes. I'm sorry about that. I think I got distracted and completely forgot to read the rest of that paragraph. orz

So perhaps we're starting to agree? We agree there will be a good number of people who crave physical experiences. We agree it will be the commercial installations that have the resources to really bring the heat. My belief is these experiences will indeed be so amazing as to literally shame anything you could conceivably accomplish in your own home, and cause the biggest enthusiasts to decide they're better off dropping $20 a week at the arcade than they are spending gobs of money trying to produce a pale imitation in their basement. What say you?

Good idea with the compressed air spiders. There's a lot of opportunity to reuse similar techniques from Disney attractions.

Yeah, Disney has done a lot of interesting work on increasing the sense of presence in their attractions. I expect they'll have a big head start when it comes to making VR attractions.

Because that sort of movement, decoupled from your inner ear's sense of motion, is a short cut to instant motion sickness. The teleporting system is (so far) the only way to move around a large space without triggering this response.

Ratcheting doesn't induce sickness, because the movement of your body is mapped directly to the movement of your hand. Imagine an astronaut pulling themselves through the space station in zero gravity. Now take away inertia and replace the need to grab existing handholds with the ability to grab any convenient bit of empty space and get a firm enough grasp on it to be able to push your body around.

So that's ratcheting. It's non-nauseating, and it allows for movement in arbitrary directions, for arbitrary distances.

Here is a Venn diagram on the whole topic of game design for VR:

What's the source of this diagram?

So far I've had no motion sickness at all from using a stick to move around. Analogue stick turning feels more weird than movement, but still didn't make me feel sick.

Unsurprisingly, it seems to depend on the user in question. You can also build up your tolerance to erratic movement, just as you do in real life.

And I think the "answer" that serversurfer is trying to get to is where is that sweetspot for gameplay gain balanced against roomscale cost.

Basically. Not just dollar cost, but also effort and convenience will all factor in to its success, and that applies to developers just as much as users. And to be clear, using my suggested terminology, I'm talking about physical locomotion here. Motion controls are sweet, and obviously, not needing to be careful to stay in view of the camera is a win. But I'm not sold on the idea that physical locomotion is "the" answer to movement in VR as some are. It's certainly an answer, but it clearly has limitations that proponents seem quite eager to gloss over.

Given roomscale is a functional superset of standing 360, any game designed for standing 360 can rather easily be expanded to roomscale and benefit from it. It's just the addition of natural locomotion to artificial. As a technology, there's very few reasons to not support room scale where possible.

How easy is it? Let's say you've designed a 10x30m room in your game, and you've given the SRO players the ability to ratchet about. But this particular player informs you that they actually have a fairly large, 2x3m area they can walk about in freely. What are the steps involved in modifying your game to support physical locomotion? How do you make it so they can walk the length of the great hall and descend the steps hidden behind the king's throne?

Or are you not even talking about physical locomotion? lol

 

[irrotational]

I think a warehouse with re-directed walking could lead to another circle on the venn diagram and something different from Vive's room-scale.

At a certain point it becomes "world-scale" because the game can be designed to shepherd you around an entire "world".

I'm using hypens because there is still a big scale difference between being able to walk around an entire level in a game world, as opposed to replicating Hyde park (London) and being able to walk anywhere, in any direction, for an unlimited amount of time.

A good example of "world" would be using road blocks strategically to recreate most of the New York in the Division and be able to walk around it for hours....whilst actually being inside a 50m by 50m room.

 

[Zalusithix]

How easy is it? Let's say you've designed a 10x30m room in your game, and you've given the SRO players the ability to ratchet about. But this particular player informs you that they actually have a fairly large, 2x3m area they can walk about in freely. What are the steps involved in modifying your game to support physical locomotion? How do you make it so they can walk the length of the great hall and descend the steps hidden behind the king's throne?

Or are you not even talking about physical locomotion? lol

One doesn't come with the exclusion of the other. The roomscale person can move around freely in as large of a space as they have available. When they run out of room, they use the same mechanism of movement as the standing person. Adding in code to move a virtual avatar in 1:1 scale with the actual movement is trivial. Heck, you're doing it already since you're moving the head and hands in 1:1 to being with. Assuming there's no need to see the body ever, there's really no additional work. If the body can be seen (multiplayer), then it'd be an IK thing.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Crosspost from the Vive thread:

https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive

Play Lucky's Tale and Oculus Dreamdeck on the Vive

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4ems6t/play_luckys_tale_and_oculus_dreamdeck_on_the_vive/

 

[Zaptruder]

Crosspost from the Vive thread:

https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive

Play Lucky's Tale and Oculus Dreamdeck on the Vive

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4ems6t/play_luckys_tale_and_oculus_dreamdeck_on_the_vive/

Niceee.

VR unifying can't be stopped by corporate politics!

 

[cakefoo]

Basically. Not just dollar cost, but also effort and convenience will all factor in to its success, and that applies to developers just as much as users. And to be clear, using my suggested terminology, I'm talking about physical locomotion here. Motion controls are sweet, and obviously, not needing to be careful to stay in view of the camera is a win. But I'm not sold on the idea that physical locomotion is "the" answer to movement in VR as some are. It's certainly an answer, but it clearly has limitations that proponents seem quite eager to gloss over.

Roomscale isn't "the" answer to movement across an infinite amount of space and an infinite array of terrain. But it would be an inarguably better dose of presence (which is what VR is all about) to have the option to periodically cease artificial locomotion in favor of utilizing a 2-5 meter tracking volume with which to move naturally, than to always sit in a chair "ratcheting" around with hand gestures or pushing a stick to move, and in time developers and gamers will discover a multitude of formulas that mix artificial and natural locomotion together in increasingly intuitive, practical and immersive ways.

How easy is it? Let's say you've designed a 10x30m room in your game, and you've given the SRO players the ability to ratchet about. But this particular player informs you that they actually have a fairly large, 2x3m area they can walk about in freely. What are the steps involved in modifying your game to support physical locomotion? How do you make it so they can walk the length of the great hall and descend the steps hidden behind the king's throne?

Or are you not even talking about physical locomotion? lol

Roomscale is literally just positional tracking. Anything developed for Rift DK2's positional headtracking is theoretically equipped to allow roomscale tracking. I've seen where in racing games designed for seated VR, you can actually stand up and get out of the car, even though the developers probably didn't intentionally code that "feature" into the game.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Finally set everything up and played some Elite last night. It didn't take me long to remember that I had already gotten super bored with that game on the DK2. Guess I'll install DCS! Which is better for DCS at this point, Rift or the Vive?

 

[KingSnake]

Crosspost from the Vive thread:

https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive

Play Lucky's Tale and Oculus Dreamdeck on the Vive

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4ems6t/play_luckys_tale_and_oculus_dreamdeck_on_the_vive/

Oh, that's faster than I was expecting it. Great. Can't wait to try it later.

 

[Cimarron]

Finally set everything up and played some Elite last night. It didn't take me long to remember that I had already gotten super bored with that game on the DK2. Guess I'll install DCS! Which is better for DCS at this point, Rift or the Vive?

DCS?

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

DCS?

Digital Combat Simulator. I fly the A-10.

 

[lmimmfn]

Seems New Retro Arcade will be released soon for Oculus 1.3:





https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4ekda3/newretroarcade_do_we_know_if_there_will_be_a_13/

Sweet, one of my VR favs, hope they don't get rid of walking, I have my vr legs and love walking around the arcade, wouldn't be the same teleporting around it

*EDIT* cool, they updated it, won't remove walk, will be optional

 

[alt account]

Seems New Retro Arcade will be released soon for Oculus 1.3:





https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4ekda3/newretroarcade_do_we_know_if_there_will_be_a_13/

This is one of thing that sold me in VR

I would like room scale for this

 

[Cimarron]

Digital Combat Simulator. I fly the A-10.

*squeal* I have waited for this moment all my life

 

[serversurfer]

One doesn't come with the exclusion of the other. The roomscale person can move around freely in as large of a space as they have available. When they run out of room, they use the same mechanism of movement as the standing person. Adding in code to move a virtual avatar in 1:1 scale with the actual movement is trivial. Heck, you're doing it already since you're moving the head and hands in 1:1 to being with. Assuming there's no need to see the body ever, there's really no additional work. If the body can be seen (multiplayer), then it'd be an IK thing.

So in a nutshell, we allow full freedom of movement within the trackable volume — whatever that may be — and provide ratcheting to meet any movement requirements which take us beyond those bounds? Sure, that sounds perfectly reasonable. It's probably the default behavior, more or less. Then can you talk me through some mixed mode navigation? How does the user “pick up the mouse” and recenter themselves within the Chaperone Boundaries? The user is meant to be generally unaware of the fact that CB is even a thing, right? Presence is the name of the game, so if everything is going as it should, the user shouldn’t have the slightest idea where they are in relation to the physical walls, yes?

So after a heated battle with nary a peep from the chaperone thanks to your lush, four meter square tracking volume, the smoke clears to reveal the great hall is strewn with lootable bodies. The nearest is just a couple of meters away, so you excitedly scurry over to claim your prize. Unbeknownst to you — since the tech is working as advertised — you’re actually headed towards the nearest wall, so you only make it a little over a meter before the chaperone steps in front of you to say, “Easy, turbo; this ain’t real.” Well, all tracking has limits and besides, now you’re close enough to the body that you can just extend the length of your arm through the chaperone and gra… err, bump your wand against the wall a few centimeters shy of where the corpse becomes clickable. Bugger.

Okay, so we’ve definitely reached the limits of our trackable volume, verified by not one but two presence breaking events. So now what? How do we get back to the center of the bedroom and “reset” our freedom of movement? The most obvious answer would be to simply turn your back on the corpse, walk back towards the center of the bedroom, and turn back to face the corpse again. Having done this, you can easily ratchet yourself forward until the corpse sits within the CB, allowing you march right up and loot it. Just like real life.

A more sophisticated solution would be some sort of Ignore Me mode, allowing you to move freely through meatspace without affecting your location in cyberspace. This would allow you to skip ratcheting entirely, since you wouldn’t be getting any further from the corpse as you walked away from it. You may actually want to fade the VE out and the CB in during this process, because I imagine that being present in two environments simultaneously yet having your movement only reflected in one of them would be somewhat disorienting.. So in effect, you’d be stepping out of one reality in to another to take a few steps backwards, which allows you to then return to the original reality at the precise point from which you left, thereby continuing your stroll completely without interruption.

Call me a hater, but that all sounds kinda tedious and whatever the opposite of immersive is. Seems like it would be far simpler and more intuitive to simply reach out and pull myself a little bit closer, just as I would normally take an additional step towards something I couldn’t quite reach. One simple and intuitive action later I’ve reached my goal. May as well do the same to reach the guy 2m past this one, and yeah, prolly the one 4m past him too…

So now you’ve reached the end of the hall and collected all of the loot. The 16 square meters you’ve cleared in your house have allowed you to walk the first 1.5m of the hall, just like a real person would, and ratchet the remaining 28.5m, just like the SRO players would, after having started your journey with another visit from the chaperone. And you still can’t step in to the next virtual room, because you’re still standing in front of a physical wall. I guess now would be a good time to go ahead and stop to get yourself re-centered again. Maybe you’ll get lucky and the next room won’t be any bigger than your own room. Hmm, but if it is the same size as your room, then you should probably just go ahead and “center” yourself with your back to a wall, right? So, should it be the short wall or the long wall? Gotta be the short wall, right? I mean, doors that open into a left-right hallway aren’t a thing, are they?

And make no mistake, the chaperone does break presence. That’s actually it’s job. The only reason it exists is to stop you doing what you’re trying to do and say, “Yeah, you’d think, but not hap’nin.” So can you explain why we’re training users to actively move towards the tracking boundaries knowing full well it will be impossible for us to maintain presence when they arrive at said boundary a half-second later? Wouldn’t it be better for them and for us if we trained them to just stay put and stop messing with variables they can’t even observe? “Sorry, Chaperone, my bad. I didn’t know.” Yes, we knew you didn’t know, and decided to encourage you wander off the edge anyway. Ergo, the chaperone, here to pull you back to reality. Seems to me this all runs counter to the entire goal of establishing and maintaining presence. Just establish some consistent, predictable rules, and that’s all people really need, even if it means altering or even restricting their behavior. It’s things you can’t predict — like dropped frames and stumbling blindly off the edge — which break presence.

A lot of people seem to think that ratcheting breaks presence with every “step” you take, but it really doesn’t work like that, because its predictable. Our brains are actually quite adaptable, and it doesn’t take long before it feels completely normal to you. I compared ratcheting to brachiating your way around the space station. Scott Kelly didn’t spend the entire year thinking, “pfft This is so fake.” He also didn’t spend the entire year thinking, “This is so amazing/unbelievable/convenient.” Those thoughts lasted about a week, and after that his thoughts about locomotion were precisely the same as ours down here on Earth; “I need that pen.” After you get out of an extended VR session, your thoughts will mirror his own after returning to Earth; “I can’t believe I gotta use my stupid legs for this.”

But it would be an inarguably better dose of presence (which is what VR is all about) to have the option to periodically cease artificial locomotion in favor of utilizing a 2-5 meter tracking volume with which to move naturally, than to always sit in a chair "ratcheting" around with hand gestures or pushing a stick to move, and in time developers and gamers will discover a multitude of formulas that mix artificial and natural locomotion together in increasingly intuitive, practical and immersive ways.

See above?

 

[CyberPunked]

Received my rift a day ago, amazing. The first demos it put you into were simply jaw dropping. I hadn't used a VR headset since the DK1 3 years ago, and this is orders of magnitude superior. I mean, I had relativiley high expectations (you'd need to to spend £500), and I was still blown away.

 

[Zaptruder]

So in a nutshell, we allow full freedom of movement within the trackable volume — whatever that may be — and provide ratcheting to meet any movement requirements which take us beyond those bounds? Sure, that sounds perfectly reasonable. It's probably the default behavior, more or less. Then can you talk me through some mixed mode navigation? How does the user “pick up the mouse” and recenter themselves within the Chaperone Boundaries? The user is meant to be generally unaware of the fact that CB is even a thing, right? Presence is the name of the game, so if everything is going as it should, the user shouldn’t have the slightest idea where they are in relation to the physical walls, yes?

So after a heated battle with nary a peep from the chaperone thanks to your lush, four meter square tracking volume, the smoke clears to reveal the great hall is strewn with lootable bodies. The nearest is just a couple of meters away, so you excitedly scurry over to claim your prize. Unbeknownst to you — since the tech is working as advertised — you’re actually headed towards the nearest wall, so you only make it a little over a meter before the chaperone steps in front of you to say, “Easy, turbo; this ain’t real.” Well, all tracking has limits and besides, now you’re close enough to the body that you can just extend the length of your arm through the chaperone and gra… err, bump your wand against the wall a few centimeters shy of where the corpse becomes clickable. Bugger.

Okay, so we’ve definitely reached the limits of our trackable volume, verified by not one but two presence breaking events. So now what? How do we get back to the center of the bedroom and “reset” our freedom of movement? The most obvious answer would be to simply turn your back on the corpse, walk back towards the center of the bedroom, and turn back to face the corpse again. Having done this, you can easily ratchet yourself forward until the corpse sits within the CB, allowing you march right up and loot it. Just like real life.

A more sophisticated solution would be some sort of Ignore Me mode, allowing you to move freely through meatspace without affecting your location in cyberspace. This would allow you to skip ratcheting entirely, since you wouldn’t be getting any further from the corpse as you walked away from it. You may actually want to fade the VE out and the CB in during this process, because I imagine that being present in two environments simultaneously yet having your movement only reflected in one of them would be somewhat disorienting.. So in effect, you’d be stepping out of one reality in to another to take a few steps backwards, which allows you to then return to the original reality at the precise point from which you left, thereby continuing your stroll completely without interruption.

Call me a hater, but that all sounds kinda tedious and whatever the opposite of immersive is. Seems like it would be far simpler and more intuitive to simply reach out and pull myself a little bit closer, just as I would normally take an additional step towards something I couldn’t quite reach. One simple and intuitive action later I’ve reached my goal. May as well do the same to reach the guy 2m past this one, and yeah, prolly the one 4m past him too…

So now you’ve reached the end of the hall and collected all of the loot. The 16 square meters you’ve cleared in your house have allowed you to walk the first 1.5m of the hall, just like a real person would, and ratchet the remaining 28.5m, just like the SRO players would, after having started your journey with another visit from the chaperone. And you still can’t step in to the next virtual room, because you’re still standing in front of a physical wall. I guess now would be a good time to go ahead and stop to get yourself re-centered again. Maybe you’ll get lucky and the next room won’t be any bigger than your own room. Hmm, but if it is the same size as your room, then you should probably just go ahead and “center” yourself with your back to a wall, right? So, should it be the short wall or the long wall? Gotta be the short wall, right? I mean, doors that open into a left-right hallway aren’t a thing, are they?

And make no mistake, the chaperone does break presence. That’s actually it’s job. The only reason it exists is to stop you doing what you’re trying to do and say, “Yeah, you’d think, but not hap’nin.” So can you explain why we’re training users to actively move towards the tracking boundaries knowing full well it will be impossible for us to maintain presence when they arrive at said boundary a half-second later? Wouldn’t it be better for them and for us if we trained them to just stay put and stop messing with variables they can’t even observe? “Sorry, Chaperone, my bad. I didn’t know.” Yes, we knew you didn’t know, and decided to encourage you wander off the edge anyway. Ergo, the chaperone, here to pull you back to reality. Seems to me this all runs counter to the entire goal of establishing and maintaining presence. Just establish some consistent, predictable rules, and that’s all people really need, even if it means altering or even restricting their behavior. It’s things you can’t predict — like dropped frames and stumbling blindly off the edge — which break presence.

A lot of people seem to think that ratcheting breaks presence with every “step” you take, but it really doesn’t work like that, because its predictable. Our brains are actually quite adaptable, and it doesn’t take long before it feels completely normal to you. I compared ratcheting to brachiating your way around the space station. Scott Kelly didn’t spend the entire year thinking, “pfft This is so fake.” He also didn’t spend the entire year thinking, “This is so amazing/unbelievable/convenient.” Those thoughts lasted about a week, and after that his thoughts about locomotion were precisely the same as ours down here on Earth; “I need that pen.” After you get out of an extended VR session, your thoughts will mirror his own after returning to Earth; “I can’t believe I gotta use my stupid legs for this.”



See above?

... not that your insights aren't insightful or entertaining... but if we can adapt as you say (and I concur), wouldn't it be better to use an already established locomotion method in teleportation?

In fact, you can get teleportation to act a bit like the ratcheting mechanism you describe - if you try the Vive Home demo and turn on dash teleport, then it's... it's a bit like shooting a hook into the world and pulling it towards you.

Such a movement scheme is compatible with small and large roomscale experiences.

 

[Paganmoon]

So just got back from testing HTC Vive, got to demo theBlu, Job simulator, Space Pirate Trainer and Tiltbrush.

Impressions on the headset, much less comfortable than the PSVR. Got pretty warm around the face, were the headset sat snuggly. Screen was good, but I did notice some strange coloring on the setup screen, where I was instructed to look at one of the lighthouses and calibrate the lenses, while moving my head slightly, the colors below and above the lighthouse would shift from redish to greenish, about 1 pixel wide swath around it. Only noticed this in the setup screen, and I'm guessing mostly due to the contrast of the white "room" and the black lighthouse, and in turn I guess that's due to the RGBG setup of the subpixels.
Second problem, the damned cable. For room scale to work, you shouldn't have to worry about the cable, and right now it seems to be a rather large issue, and specially in a demo environment, they should have it on some device attached to the ceiling.

The controllers had fewer buttons than I expected, and most of the use was very intuitive, on Space Pirate trainer, as it started, I asked "hey, how do you switch firing modes, and before I could get an answer, I had already switched. The tracking works great, without any delay whatsoever. Though there was one moment in Job Simulator where it lost tracking on my left hand when I was trying to pick something up from the floor.

theBlu demo was really cool, hearing something behind you and turning around and seeing this giant whale, the sense of scale was fantastic. (This is where I think the comparisons some make to 3D absolutely fails, 3D TV/Movies have no sense of scale, everything is a miniature, so the experiences aren't even remotely comparable). This demo was also one where I definitely realized the need for higher resolution displays, and the need for a lot of good AA. There were a lot of shimmering, and very noticeable pixilation on more distant objects (mostly noticeable on the devil rays swimming at a distance)

Job Simulator was pretty meh, then again I totally ignored the instructions and spent most of my time copying paper airplanes and throwing them everywhere.

Space Pirate Trainer was great, and if you have lots of space at home, it's going to be awesome to play. The ease of aiming and shooting, switching weapon to shield, and the intuitiveness of dodging incoming projectiles made the Vive shine.

Tilt Brush was pretty meh as well, considering I don't have a single artistic bone in my body, but I can see people with talent creating great pieces in this, and I think I'd enjoy just spending time looking at them.

So far I've tried PSVR and HTC Vive, PSVR was back in late September so I can't compare directly, but one thing is for sure, PSVR is better designed, after 15 minutes on the Vive, I was sweating around the face plate, and I can't imagine how it'd be after hour long sessions. Room scale though is a completely different experience, and there HTC really has the upper hand. Never got to try the PSVR with the move controllers, so can't compare there.

 

[gypsygib]

I have a VR-ready PC but it seems like PSVR is the only one that thought about making actual games, not just shovelware and demos but legit game experiences.

With all the time invested developing Vive and Rift, you'd think they would have funded at least one killer app designed from the ground up for VR. They are trying to sell the hardware to gamers.

 

[Justin]

Can anyone recommend a decent not too expensive head set for this? I don't really want to use the ear buds.

 

[Foggy]

I have a VR-ready PC but it seems like PSVR is the only one that thought about making actual games, not just shovelware and demos but legit game experiences.

With all the time invested developing Vive and Rift, you'd think they would have funded at least one killer app designed from the ground up for VR. They are trying to sell the hardware to gamers.

In terms of game design, it's practically a new medium and everyone is learning as they make. It stands to reason, especially in the PC realm that there will be more experiments than full-blown, fully resourced games. Dismissing it as shovelware is missing the context. We'll know for sure later, but I suspect these "actual games" you refer to will come with a measure of disappointment or half-baked potential. Which is fine, honestly. This is the ground level.

 

[Zalusithix]

So in a nutshell, we allow full freedom of movement within the trackable volume — whatever that may be — and provide ratcheting to meet any movement requirements which take us beyond those bounds? Sure, that sounds perfectly reasonable. It's probably the default behavior, more or less. Then can you talk me through some mixed mode navigation? How does the user “pick up the mouse” and recenter themselves within the Chaperone Boundaries? The user is meant to be generally unaware of the fact that CB is even a thing, right? Presence is the name of the game, so if everything is going as it should, the user shouldn’t have the slightest idea where they are in relation to the physical walls, yes?

So after a heated battle with nary a peep from the chaperone thanks to your lush, four meter square tracking volume, the smoke clears to reveal the great hall is strewn with lootable bodies. The nearest is just a couple of meters away, so you excitedly scurry over to claim your prize. Unbeknownst to you — since the tech is working as advertised — you’re actually headed towards the nearest wall, so you only make it a little over a meter before the chaperone steps in front of you to say, “Easy, turbo; this ain’t real.” Well, all tracking has limits and besides, now you’re close enough to the body that you can just extend the length of your arm through the chaperone and gra… err, bump your wand against the wall a few centimeters shy of where the corpse becomes clickable. Bugger.

Okay, so we’ve definitely reached the limits of our trackable volume, verified by not one but two presence breaking events. So now what? How do we get back to the center of the bedroom and “reset” our freedom of movement? The most obvious answer would be to simply turn your back on the corpse, walk back towards the center of the bedroom, and turn back to face the corpse again. Having done this, you can easily ratchet yourself forward until the corpse sits within the CB, allowing you march right up and loot it. Just like real life.

A more sophisticated solution would be some sort of Ignore Me mode, allowing you to move freely through meatspace without affecting your location in cyberspace. This would allow you to skip ratcheting entirely, since you wouldn’t be getting any further from the corpse as you walked away from it. You may actually want to fade the VE out and the CB in during this process, because I imagine that being present in two environments simultaneously yet having your movement only reflected in one of them would be somewhat disorienting.. So in effect, you’d be stepping out of one reality in to another to take a few steps backwards, which allows you to then return to the original reality at the precise point from which you left, thereby continuing your stroll completely without interruption.

Call me a hater, but that all sounds kinda tedious and whatever the opposite of immersive is. Seems like it would be far simpler and more intuitive to simply reach out and pull myself a little bit closer, just as I would normally take an additional step towards something I couldn’t quite reach. One simple and intuitive action later I’ve reached my goal. May as well do the same to reach the guy 2m past this one, and yeah, prolly the one 4m past him too…

So now you’ve reached the end of the hall and collected all of the loot. The 16 square meters you’ve cleared in your house have allowed you to walk the first 1.5m of the hall, just like a real person would, and ratchet the remaining 28.5m, just like the SRO players would, after having started your journey with another visit from the chaperone. And you still can’t step in to the next virtual room, because you’re still standing in front of a physical wall. I guess now would be a good time to go ahead and stop to get yourself re-centered again. Maybe you’ll get lucky and the next room won’t be any bigger than your own room. Hmm, but if it is the same size as your room, then you should probably just go ahead and “center” yourself with your back to a wall, right? So, should it be the short wall or the long wall? Gotta be the short wall, right? I mean, doors that open into a left-right hallway aren’t a thing, are they?

And make no mistake, the chaperone does break presence. That’s actually it’s job. The only reason it exists is to stop you doing what you’re trying to do and say, “Yeah, you’d think, but not hap’nin.” So can you explain why we’re training users to actively move towards the tracking boundaries knowing full well it will be impossible for us to maintain presence when they arrive at said boundary a half-second later? Wouldn’t it be better for them and for us if we trained them to just stay put and stop messing with variables they can’t even observe? “Sorry, Chaperone, my bad. I didn’t know.” Yes, we knew you didn’t know, and decided to encourage you wander off the edge anyway. Ergo, the chaperone, here to pull you back to reality. Seems to me this all runs counter to the entire goal of establishing and maintaining presence. Just establish some consistent, predictable rules, and that’s all people really need, even if it means altering or even restricting their behavior. It’s things you can’t predict — like dropped frames and stumbling blindly off the edge — which break presence.

A lot of people seem to think that ratcheting breaks presence with every “step” you take, but it really doesn’t work like that, because its predictable. Our brains are actually quite adaptable, and it doesn’t take long before it feels completely normal to you. I compared ratcheting to brachiating your way around the space station. Scott Kelly didn’t spend the entire year thinking, “pfft This is so fake.” He also didn’t spend the entire year thinking, “This is so amazing/unbelievable/convenient.” Those thoughts lasted about a week, and after that his thoughts about locomotion were precisely the same as ours down here on Earth; “I need that pen.” After you get out of an extended VR session, your thoughts will mirror his own after returning to Earth; “I can’t believe I gotta use my stupid legs for this.”



See above?

Your entire argument boils down to "since room scale has limitations, lets avoid them by using a system with even more limitations".

So what if reaching chaperone bounds temporarily breaks the sense of presence requiring you to physically reset yourself? This is not inherently any worse than instinctively taking a step to the side to dodge an attack only to realize that you're rooted in place. If you're a human in game, it's logical (fundamentally hardwired into our brains even) that you'll want to perform human actions within the virtual space. Sure we can adapt and not use human actions. This is how we've managed to use tools and evolve as a species. This requires a mode shift in thinking though.

Besides, you can weave the chaperone bounds themselves into the game fiction as a tool if you wanted to make it no more immersion breaking than artificial locomotion. Make the chaperone bounds represent a kekkai / force field that creates a "safe zone" within an otherwise inhospitable world. You can teleport/ratchet/artificial-locomotion yourself around, but your position within the field is always maintained. Now the chaperone bounds have presence in the virtual world that matches your true reality, and can be treated like any other tool. Heck, you could make them visible 24/7 with some translucent shimmery effect even. Will it make logical sense in all applications? No. But neither does any form of artificial locomotion. Your brain will adapt (or get pulled out by the absurdity).

Also, for your example of walking back to chaperone center in order to ratchet the enemy within the bounds and then walking back to it... You could just as easily have ratcheted yourself up an extra step while at the edge of the bounds and picked at the enemy. Alternatively, move further than the corpse and grab it on your way back to the chaperone center. Not everything has to be so complicated. =P

 

[cakefoo]

Presence is the name of the game, so if everything is going as it should, the user shouldn’t have the slightest idea where they are in relation to the physical walls, yes?

Seeing the Chaperone grid is a more tolerable side-effect than smacking my face into a desk corner.

Well, all tracking has limits and besides, now you’re close enough to the body that you can just extend the length of your arm through the chaperone and gra… err, bump your wand against the wall a few centimeters shy of where the corpse becomes clickable. Bugger.

Okay, so we’ve definitely reached the limits of our trackable volume, verified by not one but two presence breaking events. So now what? How do we get back to the center of the bedroom and “reset” our freedom of movement? The most obvious answer would be to simply turn your back on the corpse, walk back towards the center of the bedroom, and turn back to face the corpse again. Having done this, you can easily ratchet yourself forward until the corpse sits within the CB, allowing you march right up and loot it. Just like real life.

A more sophisticated solution would be some sort of Ignore Me mode, allowing you to move freely through meatspace without affecting your location in cyberspace. This would allow you to skip ratcheting entirely, since you wouldn’t be getting any further from the corpse as you walked away from it. You may actually want to fade the VE out and the CB in during this process, because I imagine that being present in two environments simultaneously yet having your movement only reflected in one of them would be somewhat disorienting.. So in effect, you’d be stepping out of one reality in to another to take a few steps backwards, which allows you to then return to the original reality at the precise point from which you left, thereby continuing your stroll completely without interruption.

What you're describing is bested by the Walkabout solution.

Call me a hater, but that all sounds kinda tedious and whatever the opposite of immersive is. Seems like it would be far simpler and more intuitive to simply reach out and pull myself a little bit closer, just as I would normally take an additional step towards something I couldn’t quite reach. One simple and intuitive action later I’ve reached my goal. May as well do the same to reach the guy 2m past this one, and yeah, prolly the one 4m past him too…

After watching the Walkabout video, get back to us. It's not as much of an immersion killer since you still feel connected physically to the Chaperone and floaties.

A lot of people seem to think that ratcheting breaks presence with every “step” you take, but it really doesn’t work like that, because its predictable. Our brains are actually quite adaptable, and it doesn’t take long before it feels completely normal to you. I compared ratcheting to brachiating your way around the space station. Scott Kelly didn’t spend the entire year thinking, “pfft This is so fake.” He also didn’t spend the entire year thinking, “This is so amazing/unbelievable/convenient.” Those thoughts lasted about a week, and after that his thoughts about locomotion were precisely the same as ours down here on Earth; “I need that pen.” After you get out of an extended VR session, your thoughts will mirror his own after returning to Earth; “I can’t believe I gotta use my stupid legs for this.”

Pulling yourself around in space doesn't feel weightless. You STILL have inertia from your body. You have to use muscle to accelerate or decelerate. So no. Ratcheting with your arms will not feel like you're an astronaut.

Your entire argument boils down to "since room scale has limitations, lets avoid them by using a system with even more limitations".

Since PSVR can't do it, Vive must not either!

 

[mugurumakensei]

I have a VR-ready PC but it seems like PSVR is the only one that thought about making actual games, not just shovelware and demos but legit game experiences.

With all the time invested developing Vive and Rift, you'd think they would have funded at least one killer app designed from the ground up for VR. They are trying to sell the hardware to gamers.

I think that's very very slightly fair statement about the Vive (for now).That's a completely unfair statement about the Rift though. Right now, it already has more than a few fully fleshed out titles.

Also, they aren't trying to sell to just gamers. They want to sell to businesses as well. Businesses typically have larger credit lines and liquid assets than any individual.

The Rift and Vive are easier for businesses to integrate into custom solutions for all sorts of other markets. Not to mention, it's much easier to get started with developing since you can technically prototype with a Virtual(fake in this case) VR screen and you only need a PC to start developing.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

I think saying a released platform has fewer games than an unreleased one is folly to start with.

 

[KingSnake]

I think that's very very slightly fair statement about the Vive (for now).That's a completely unfair statement about the Rift though. Right now, it already has more than a few fully fleshed out titles.

This is like a comment from the past. The past before the Giant Bomb stream.

The other post doesn't even worth being answered. You can't answer to marketing in any rational way.

 

[mugurumakensei]

I think saying a released platform has fewer games than an unreleased one is folly to start with.

That's true. PSVR has zero released full experience games. Oculus Rift has Chronos, Lucky's Tale, Eve Valkyrie, and Project Cars already out.