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[Krejlooc]

There are a million different ways to do artificial locomotion and when it causes discomfort, there's a huge range of how much or how little discomfort it can cause.

Lucky's Tale, Hover Junkers, Elite Dangerous, etc etc are proof enough that it has a place.

I've seen people get very sick with Hover Junkers, actually.

And Elite Dangerous is not the kind of artificial locomotion being discussed, don't be obtuse.

 

[Croatoan]

Of the several thousands of people I've demoed to over the last 3 years, I've seen hundreds get sick from artificial locomotion.

Teleportation is adequate, especially for games like Skyrim.

EDIT: And for some, when I say sick, I mean really sick. As in, white in the face, "I need to lay down for a few hours" sick.

I have never seen anybody get sick like that from teleportation.

Well that is why we are offering a comfort teleportation mode .

I guess our current sample size is too small. I need to find someone that can't do traditional to try out our directional teleportation.

I got ill with traditional the first few times myself, but now it doesn't bother me at all.

I think you and i will always disagree on teleportation being "adequate" though. Lol

Edit: would you say 30% get sick or lower?

 

[Zalusithix]

But he was quoted as saying there is no contract for a set period of time the game has to exclusively be on Oculus Home. Which sounds a lot like how Project CARS launched, and had Vive support added after a little over a month.

On a different note, has anyone had their VR Lens Kickstarter orders ship?

While there is a more information now with the interview, at the time I made that post, there was no additional information that I was aware of. So no, in this case there is no contractual agreement for timing. Just the same, it'll be 2-3 months by the dev's own admission to get the Vive version running after they launch the Touch version. This despite selling preorders for it with the Vive having been the dev platform.

They should have really decided what they were going to do before offering it to customers. Then made their plans crystal clear. They have nobody to blame but themselves for the shitstorm surrounding them.

That said, I'll retract one strike against Oculus here. (They're so far over 3 for me that it's more of a token gesture though.)

Edit: As for the whole locomotion and sickness thing, my mother got near puking level sick just from briefly having a ground floor removed from her. (Realities.IO) There's a massive variance in personal tolerance in VR. Erring on the side of caution is a sensible thing to do if you're attempting to reach the broadest audience.

 

[Krejlooc]

Well that is why we are offering a comfort teleportation mode .

Now this I agree on. I'm hoping these forms of locomotion become standardized and available as control options, much in the same way some people can play inverted, some play legacy, etc. I believe, with creativity, you can make teleportation and other forms of locomotion functionally equivalent for the most part.

Alternatively, it's neat to see multiple forms of locomotion in concert. I use Ratcheting in my goldeneye demo to climb ladders, but primarily use teleportation.

Edit: would you say 30% get sick or lower?

I wouldn't want to hazard a guess of the percentage of people who get sick, but rather to say that it's not so uncommon that I never think about it. And regardless of how common or uncommon it is, what is more important to me is how uncomfortable it is to the person. In some cases I've seen people essentially shut down for the day, and I can guarantee you they will never try VR again.

I prefer to play it safe, to gain as wide an audience as possible.

 

[Tain]

I've seen people get very sick with Hover Junkers, actually.

And Elite Dangerous is not the kind of artificial locomotion being discussed, don't be obtuse.

Sure, but a lot of people enjoy Hover Junkers, which is why "you shouldn't do artificial locomotion", on its own, is kinda horseshit.

The feeling I get while docking in Elite Dangerous isn't too far off from the feeling I get from moving the platform in Hover Junkers. Must not be the case with most people, judging by your reaction, but I figured Oculus gave Elite and EVE an "intense" for a reason.

 

[Krejlooc]

Sure, but a lot of people enjoy Hover Junkers

The sample size of players for all VR games right now is tiny, less than 100k. When extrapolated to a large audience, that number of people getting sick becomes non-trivial.

The feeling I get while docking in Elite Dangerous isn't too far off from the feeling I get from moving the platform in Hover Junkers. Must not be the case with most people, judging by your reaction, but I figured Oculus gave Elite and EVE an "intense" for a reason.

I figured they gave them an "intense" rating because they aimed to replicate an intense experience - flying a ship in space. Most normal people couldn't stand that on it's own. The discussion isn't about intentionally intense locomotion, it's about accidentally intense locomotion. People don't expect to get sick from using an analog stick to run across the room. It should be pretty obvious that some will get sick from piloting a space ship.

 

[Croatoan]

Now this I agree on. I'm hoping these forms of locomotion become standardized and available as control options, much in the same way some people can play inverted, some play legacy, etc. I believe, with creativity, you can make teleportation and other forms of locomotion functionally equivalent for the most part.



I wouldn't want to hazard a guess of the percentage of people who get sick, but rather to say that it's not so uncommon that I never think about it. And regardless of how common or uncommon it is, what is more important to me is how uncomfortable it is to the person. In some cases I've seen people essentially shut down for the day, and I can guarantee you they will never try VR again.

I prefer to play it safe, to gain as wide an audience as possible.

Directional teleportation is functionally identical to traditional movement and can be used as a direct replacement in our prototype. You can even change the distance of the teleport based on how far from the center your thumb is on the track pad.

Since the max distance is short, and a cooldown is used, movement actually ends up matching traditional in speed and doesn't really result in "cheating".

That said i don't think directional teleportation would work in a multiplayer game, but it could pull off a twitch shooter for single player.

 

[Krejlooc]

Directional teleportation is functionally identical to traditional movement and can be used as a direct replacement in our prototype. You can even change the distance of the teleport based on how far from the center your thumb is on the track pad.

Since the max distance is short, and has a cooldown, movement actually matches traditional in speed and doesn't really result in cheating.

Yup. I've even worked run stamina into my teleportation system, where the max distance you teleport shortens over time.

That said i don't think directional teleportation would work in a multiplayer game, but it could pull off a twitch shooter for single player.

We'll see very soon, since I believe Doom is using teleportation.

Regardless, I think you're being to specific when you are talking about "multiplayer game." Not all multiplayer games are arena shooters. Teleportation would work well in something like classic rainbow six.

 

[Tain]

The sample size of players for all VR games right now is tiny, less than 100k. When extrapolated to a large audience, that number of people getting sick becomes non-trivial.

It's already non-trivial, but that doesn't mean all developers should abandon all forms of artificial locomotion. Instead they should be very mindful of potential motion sickness, provide adequate and clear warning to potential players, and continue to make whatever game they want to make assuming they're fine targeting a smaller audience.

 

[Croatoan]

Yup. I've even worked run stamina into my teleportation system, where the max distance you teleport shortens over time.

Same for us though we are using sprinting stamina. Is yours directional or based on pointing?

There is a new game on steam that uses a rts like movement system which is interesting (as in it uses a move to command on a nav mesh)

We'll see very soon, since I believe Doom is using teleportation.

Regardless, I think you're being to specific when you are talking about "multiplayer game." Not all multiplayer games are arena shooters. Teleportation would work well in something like classic rainbow six.

Sorry i should have specified. I meant to say multiplayer shooters. I feel like warping around would make the gameplay choppy feeling. That said, i will have to play a game that tries it to know for sure. We don't have to vives to do multiplayer tests yet.

 

[Wallach]

While there is a more information now with the interview, at the time I made that post, there was no additional information that I was aware of. So no, in this case there is no contractual agreement for timing. Just the same, it'll be 2-3 months by the dev's own admission to get the Vive version running after they launch the Touch version. This despite selling preorders for it with the Vive having been the dev platform.

They should have really decided what they were going to do before offering it to customers. Then made their plans crystal clear. They have nobody to blame but themselves for the shitstorm surrounding them.

That said, I'll retract one strike against Oculus here. (They're so far over 3 for me that it's more of a token gesture though.)

Edit: As for the whole locomotion and sickness thing, my mother got near puking level sick just from briefly having a ground floor removed from her. (Realities.IO) There's a massive variance in personal tolerance in VR. Erring on the side of caution is a sensible thing to do if you're attempting to reach the broadest audience.

I don't imagine anyone disagrees with that. There's been a number of cases now where new developers have been playing too fast and loose with "VR Support" to get early access or kickstarter money and need to be held more accountable.

Locomotion is one of those things that I don't think we're going to sort for a long while. I don't expect there to be an abandonment on analog stick movement, but I would not be surprised to see more titles move from first to third person as it seems easier to mitigate when you can decouple character movement further from camera movement. I did find it interesting that Resident Evil VII seems like it will be using standard controller movement for a first person VR title, and I wonder if there won't be more of that on PSVR compared to PCVR with the increased focused on sitting experiences and increased expectations on "traditional" games in that arena.

 

[Krejlooc]

Same for us. Is yours directional or based on pointing?

There is a new game on steam that uses an rts like movement system which is interesting (as in it uses a move to command on a nav mesh)

Mostly pointing, although some directional. Although it's contextual. You press the touchpad on either hand to show an arc, and release the touchpad to throw a ball that governs where you teleport, much like budget cuts. If you hold the side buttons while you launch the ball, then the ball will land but you won't teleport, and instead you'll have a pop up window of your teleport location, again like budget cuts. Otherwise, you teleport to the collision spot immediately on contact.

The arc of the ball provides a natural cool down and can change depending on stats. There are also a number of cancel methods to stop yourself from teleporting if you change your mind.

Based on a conversation the other day about backing up while shooting, I also modified the scheme a bit. The click of the analog trigger is what actually fires your gun, if you have any of the throw of the analog stick pressed in and you press the touchpad, you'll directionally teleport backwards a step.

I change the color of the pointer arc to show your speed - red and flashing is faster than green and solid.

I also have a grappling mechanic that works like Windlands, and ratcheting (that I use in contextual situations). And, eventually, I'll work in standard analog controls.

 

[Onemic]

Same for us though we are using sprinting stamina. Is yours directional or based on pointing?

There is a new game on steam that uses a rts like movement system which is interesting (as in it uses a move to command on a nav mesh)



Sorry i should have specified. I meant to say multiplayer shooters. I feel like warping around would make the gameplay choppy feeling. That said, i will have to play a game that tries it to know for sure. We don't have to vives to do multiplayer tests yet.

I honestly cant see teleportation work for any multiplayer shooter. I cant even see it work for a traditional SP FPS.

Im interested how that PSVR FPS is handling artificial locomotion and how the user experience has been to it in terms of motion sickness.

 

[Croatoan]

Mostly pointing, although some directional. Although it's contextual. You press the touchpad on either hand to show an arc, and release the touchpad to throw a ball that governs where you teleport, much like budget cuts. If you hold the side buttons while you launch the ball, then the ball will land but you won't teleport, and instead you'll have a pop up window of your teleport location, again like budget cuts. Otherwise, you teleport to the collision spot immediately on contact.

Based on a conversation the other day about backing up while shooting, I also modified the scheme a bit. The click of the analog trigger is what actually fires your gun, if you have any of the throw of the analog stick pressed in and you press the touchpad, you'll directionally teleport backwards a step.

I change the color of the pointer arc to show your speed - red and flashing is faster than green and solid.

I also have a grappling mechanic that works like Windlands, and ratcheting (that I use in contextual situations). And, eventually, I'll work in standard analog controls.

We are using the left track pad as a joystick so you can strafe teleport and go backwards. Capsule traces handle the "collision" and decide were the final teleportation location is.

One cool thing we tried was physically walking up stairs. It actually doesn't feel weird if you have a ramp for collision (stair collision is too jerky). In our 15x15 space we can go up a large spiral staircase with ease by walking in a circle.

Are there any redirected walking demos out? I think i remember you saying it would work with 15x15 and i would love to try it.

I honestly cant see teleportation work for any multiplayer shooter. I cant even see it work for a traditional SP FPS.

Im interested how that PSVR FPS is handling artificial locomotion and how the user experience has been to it in terms of motion sickness.

Directional Teleportation will work for SP.

http://youtu.be/8jMWLrLuMZM

 

[Krejlooc]

We are using the left track pad as a joystick so you can strafe teleport and go backwards. Capsule traces handle the "collision" and decide were the final teleportation location is.

One cool thing we tried was physically walking up stairs. It actually doesn't feel weird if you have a ramp for collision (stair collision is too jerky). In our 15x15 space we can go up a large spiral staircase with ease by walking in a circle.

I use ramps for stair collision as well, and you're correct that I don't find it odd at all.

Are there any redirected walking demos out? I think i remember you saying it would work with 15x15 and i would love to try it.

I plan on working some redirected walking stuff into goldeneye as well.

I also want to get an OSVR headset and mess around with some two-player concepts.

 

[Croatoan]

I use ramps for stair collision as well, and you're correct that I don't find it odd at all.



I plan on working some redirected walking stuff into goldeneye as well.

I also want to get an OSVR headset and mess around with some two-player concepts.

Is there some ue4 research out there for redirected walking? I want to give it a shot but i feel like that could be a performance nightmare.

Unless i miss understand how its done and some curve post process effect can make it work.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Seems Oculus will pay for Giant Cops Marketing, thats why if comes to Oculus first:

For us, it really came down to the fact that we needed a partner. Having Oculus support us and make us a part of our marketing process significantly increases our chances of making Giant Cop a success for the community, and for the people dedicating their time to build it.”

It was into this decision-making process that Oculus stepped, offering Other Ocean capital, resources, and exposure for their fledgling title.

http://uploadvr.com/giant-cop-speaks-oculus-exclusivity/

The thing is, that it was announced for the Vive, in their AMA they say its also a Vive title and now it seems he is trying to take everything back....

Also Chet Faliszek two weeks ago on Twitter:

"You're excited for Giant Cop? After chatting tonight on what is coming - we're excited for Giant Cop."

 

[cyberheater]

I really wish people would stop saying you shouldn't do artificial locomotion. Of the 25 people i have demoed our prototype to not one of them has gotten motion sick from the traditional movement.

If yall ever want VR to take off for gaming you better hope teleportation dies off. Its never going to be compelling for the mainstream that want VR skyrim and other games wit natural movement.

Tradition movement is fine if you set movement speed slow (much slower than games like cod or uncharted) and make it really smooth (no jerkiness).

Just don't try to turn the player . Let them turn themselves.

In the future I believe we will all have our VR legs and the idea of teleportation will be a joke, like playing with a dial and single button.

Thank you. That is great news.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Seems Oculus will pay for Giant Cops Marketing, thats why if comes to Oculus first:



The thing is, that it was announced for the Vive, in their AMA they say its also a Vive title and now it seems he is trying to take everything back....

Also Chet Faliszek two weeks ago on Twitter:

"You're excited for Giant Cop? After chatting tonight on what is coming - we're excited for Giant Cop."

Sounds like a good deal all round. They get a level of exposure they otherwise wouldn't get, which is a big deal for a small developer with tight budgets where there's a big risk they won't make any money from it, and VR being in its infancy really needs these small devs. Oculus get a period of exclusivity in return so they make some money from their store and then later everyone else can play it from Steam.

 

[Fafalada]

Edit: would you say 30% get sick or lower?

I don't think there's a global % outside of context of each-specific implementation. I've seen naive implementations of controller locomotion go really bad (like 80+% getting sick) but I don't think(I hope not) that's what anyone is discussing as real options nowadays.

But I've also seen (and as of recently, shipped) artificial locomotion methods that are comfortable for over 90% of the test-sample population, so I'm confident it "can" be done, though it usually requires designing for it, rather than the other way around.

I think you and i will always disagree on teleportation being "adequate" though. Lol

I'm not a fan of teleportation because of its presence disrupting effects, but it's a usable fallback if all else fails.

 

[Croatoan]

I don't think there's a global % outside of context of each-specific implementation. I've seen naive implementations of controller locomotion go really bad (like 80+% getting sick) but I don't think(I hope not) that's what anyone is discussing as real options nowadays.

But I've also seen (and as of recently, shipped) artificial locomotion methods that are comfortable for over 90% of the test-sample population, so I'm confident it "can" be done, though it usually requires designing for it, rather than the other way around.


I'm not a fan of teleportation because of its presence disrupting effects, but it's a usable fallback if all else fails.

Teleportation still feels like a crutch to me. Doesn't mean we wont include it in our project. I guess I just want devs to add more options. A game designed for traditional movement can use reigned in teleportation as well (and vice versa). Its not hard to implement both unless your game is solely design around teleportation (budget cuts).

The teleport long distances approach wont work for most genres that people want to play. For example, the teleportation in Vanishing Realms feels like cheating and with no cool down you move like the flash around levels. Not ideal.

Has anyone experimented with putting a "helmet" on your camera to see if it reduces motion sickness like cockpits do?

 

[Zalusithix]

Sounds like a good deal all round. They get a level of exposure they otherwise wouldn't get, which is a big deal for a small developer with tight budgets where there's a big risk they won't make any money from it, and VR being in its infancy really needs these small devs. Oculus get a period of exclusivity in return so they make some money from their store and then later everyone else can play it from Steam.

Not a good deal for the people that, you know, already shelled out money for a preorder under the (extremely reasonable) assumption that it was a Vive game first and foremost. Now they have to either accept being a second hand citizen or go through a (supposedly non-automated) refund process. Oculus might be in the clear here, but the devs hardly are. Poorly handled. Poorly communicated. If anything this is a poster case for how not to do things.

 

[bloodydrake]

I really wish people would stop saying you shouldn't do artificial locomotion. Of the 25 people i have demoed our prototype to not one of them has gotten motion sick from the traditional movement.

If yall ever want VR to take off for gaming you better hope teleportation dies off. Its never going to be compelling for the mainstream that want VR skyrim and other games wit natural movement.

Tradition movement is fine if you set movement speed slow (much slower than games like cod or uncharted) and make it really smooth (no jerkiness).

Just don't try to turn the player . Let them turn themselves.

In the future I believe we will all have our VR legs and the idea of teleportation will be a joke, like playing with a dial and single button.

VR zGames point and walk seems like a really good compromise..I like porting as an alternative to sprint running in most games so far.but the point to walk is way better for just exploring and getting between setpieces that I'd use room scale to explore

 

[Croatoan]

VR zGames point and walk seems like a really good compromise..I like porting as an alternative to sprint running in most games so far.but the point to walk is way better for just exploring and getting between setpieces that I'd use room scale to explore

Yeah, i mentioned that before. Its the RTS style movement that uses move to and nav mesh. Seems kind of interesting but doesn't give you fine control of your movement. I also don't see how it would be different in the motion sickness department.

 

[Yoritomo]

I really wish people would stop saying you shouldn't do artificial locomotion. Of the 25 people i have demoed our prototype to not one of them has gotten motion sick from the traditional movement.

If yall ever want VR to take off for gaming you better hope teleportation dies off. Its never going to be compelling for the mainstream that want VR skyrim and other games wit natural movement.

Tradition movement is fine if you set movement speed slow (much slower than games like cod or uncharted) and make it really smooth (no jerkiness).

Just don't try to turn the player . Let them turn themselves.

In the future I believe we will all have our VR legs and the idea of teleportation will be a joke, like playing with a dial and single button.

When playing the solus project I actually prefer traditional movement for wandering around outside. As long as I keep my head and feet pointed in the same direction and blink when I stop I don't get any motion sickness. I find it more immersive than teleportation, but carries the risk of sickeness. I just hope someone tries movement based on controller direction instead of headset direction.

I do switch to teleportation in caves. I hope there's more research done into preserving presence during a teleport.

 

[mclem]

In amongst all the talk of VR, it's struck me that one thing I've missed is what the audio situation is; are headphones built into each headset, or are we wearing our own in conjunction with the set? And if headphones are built in, does that include a mic?

 

[Croatoan]

When playing the solus project I actually prefer traditional movement for wandering around outside. As long as I keep my head and feet pointed in the same direction and blink when I stop I don't get any motion sickness. I find it more immersive than teleportation, but carries the risk of sickeness. I just hope someone tries movement based on controller direction instead of headset direction.

I do switch to teleportation in caves. I hope there's more research done into preserving presence during a teleport.

Our prototype uses controller direction for "Forward" in traditional movement. In future headsets I hope for a way to track the hips to get that forward vector or the average of two ankle sensors.

 

[bloodydrake]

Yeah, i mentioned that before. Its the RTS style movement that uses move to and nav mesh. Seems kind of interesting but doesn't give you fine control of your movement. I also don't see how it would be different in the motion sickness department.

You can interrupt the movement by clicking again in a different direction..but since your motion is set in that one direction it doesn't seem to be as disorienting since you can rely on it continuing to the destination point till you click again.

I've only tried a couple games that let you dpad walk and those are really disorienting, partially due to speed but also they seem analog so slight shifts on pressure of the touch pad affect it..as well things like Ethan Carter and Polus steer were you look..that while standing messes you up. I only tried a few clicks in Vivecraft and went NOPE and toggled back to teleporting which in that game seems to work very well.

 

[Zalusithix]

In amongst all the talk of VR, it's struck me that one thing I've missed is what the audio situation is; are headphones built into each headset, or are we wearing our own in conjunction with the set? And if headphones are built in, does that include a mic?

Rift and Vive both have built in mics. Headphones are built into the Rift and are detachable, but requires running a full cable over from the source if you want to use another set. The Vive uses earbuds which plug into a jack attached to the headset. As such any headphones can be used without another cable run. Not as easy of an on-off situation though with full size headphones.

Pretty sure PSVR uses the camera mic. Also uses external headphones, but I can't remember where they plug into offhand.

 

[Tain]

I also don't see how it would be different in the motion sickness department.

Yeah, I don't get this, either. "RTS-style" movement shouldn't be any more comfortable than constant-speed non-rotating direct control.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Not a good deal for the people that, you know, already shelled out money for a preorder under the (extremely reasonable) assumption that it was a Vive game first and foremost. Now they have to either accept being a second hand citizen or go through a (supposedly non-automated) refund process. Oculus might be in the clear here, but the devs hardly are. Poorly handled. Poorly communicated. If anything this is a poster case for how not to do things.

Oh, I didn't know about the preorder thing. Yeah, not great for those people. Still, I think it's a net positive overall and something they will have had to weigh up in making the decision.

 

[mclem]

Rift and Vive both have built in mics. Headphones are built into the Rift and are detachable, but requires running a full cable over from the source if you want to use another set. The Vive uses earbuds which plug into a jack attached to the headset. As such any headphones can be used without another cable run. Not as easy of an on-off situation though with full size headphones.

Pretty sure PSVR uses the camera mic. Also uses external headphones, but I can't remember where they plug into offhand.

Thanks. I'll look a bit further for PSVR since that's the one I'll be buying into first; might buy some decent phones or buds to be dedicated for that.

 

[Onemic]

Directional Teleportation will work for SP.

http://youtu.be/8jMWLrLuMZM

I can see this working well for an FPS that is exploration based(FO4, Skyrim), but for any where movement is important it still looks like it would be cumbersome. Artificial locomotion is still the ideal movement scheme for all game types...to me at least.

No one seems to be reporting problems from that PSVR Farpoint game which uses artificial locomotion so that may be a good sign that a good implementation of the scheme is on its way.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Some interesting research from Columbia Engineering on combating motion sickness with artificial locomotion. Reminds me a bit of Ubisoft's Eagle Flight solution.

It has been noted that decreasing field of view (FOV) tends to decrease VR sickness, though at the expense of sense of presence. To address this tradeoff, we explore the effect of dynamically, yet subtly, changing a physically stationary person’s FOV in response to visually perceived motion as they virtually traverse a VE. We report the results of a two-session, multi-day study with 30 participants. Each participant was seated in a stationary chair, wearing a stereoscopic head-worn display, and used control and FOV modifying conditions in the same VE. Our data suggests that by strategically and automatically manipulating FOV during a VR session, we can reduce the degree of VR sickness perceived by participants and help them adapt to VR, without decreasing their subjective level of presence, and minimizing their awareness of the intervention.

Yeah, i mentioned that before. Its the RTS style movement that uses move to and nav mesh. Seems kind of interesting but doesn't give you fine control of your movement. I also don't see how it would be different in the motion sickness department.

I really don't understand why but it's definitely more comfortable. I've noticed I didn't have any issues with HordeZ either which does a similar thing, just without your input (you're basically on rails).

That said, my experience with motion sickness has been inconsistent. I had some trouble with Technolust, and Spell Fighter VR, but had no problem with Windlands.

 

[FlyinJ]

I really wish people would stop saying you shouldn't do artificial locomotion. Of the 25 people i have demoed our prototype to not one of them has gotten motion sick from the traditional movement.

If yall ever want VR to take off for gaming you better hope teleportation dies off. Its never going to be compelling for the mainstream that want VR skyrim and other games wit natural movement.

Tradition movement is fine if you set movement speed slow (much slower than games like cod or uncharted) and make it really smooth (no jerkiness).

Just don't try to turn the player . Let them turn themselves.

In the future I believe we will all have our VR legs and the idea of teleportation will be a joke, like playing with a dial and single button.

I would say more than half of the people I demoed traditional locomotion to over the past 3 years have gotten sick from it. About a quarter of them got so sick they never, ever wanted to use VR again.

I convinced a few of them to try it again once I got my vive, and they were totally fine using the teleportation paradigm.

The last thing you want to have happen in this state of the VR industry is make a quarter to half of your audience so sick they never want to use it again.

 

[Zalusithix]

Thanks. I'll look a bit further for PSVR since that's the one I'll be buying into first; might buy some decent phones or buds to be dedicated for that.

Revising my original comment. The mic is built into the headset like the others. Not using the camera's mic. Headphones (earbuds standard) plug into the remote that's integrated into the cord.

 

[Onemic]

I would say more than half of the people I demoed traditional locomotion to over the past 3 years have gotten sick from it. About a quarter of them got so sick they never, ever wanted to use VR again.

I convinced a few of them to try it again once I got my vive, and they were totally fine using the teleportation paradigm.

The last thing you want to have happen in this state of the VR industry is make a quarter to half of your audience so sick they never want to use it again.

I would think that the DK2/DK1 would make people more susceptible to motion sickness though, wouldnt it?

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Question for you experts there.

How does Guerilla Games Cambridge handle the sickness feeling in their game RIGS?

Seems like it would be a vomit comet but from what they've shown on the floor and through other demos it seems people are ok with it. Are they doing something unique and different?

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Question for you experts there.

How does Guerilla Games Cambridge handle the sickness feeling in their game RIGS?

Seems like it would be a vomit comet but from what they've shown on the floor and through other demos it seems people are ok with it. Are they doing something unique and different?

Having a fixed cockpit in your view helps combat motion sickness. It's the same reason people don't get as sick from playing driving or flight sim games.

 

[Zaptruder]

Our prototype uses controller direction for "Forward" in traditional movement. In future headsets I hope for a way to track the hips to get that forward vector or the average of two ankle sensors.

Although feet direction seems like the obvious end game for player directionality... it's only great for forward movement and much less so for side stepping or back tracking. Admittedly, these are things you do much less of when you can walk around with head look independent of movement vector... but there are definetly situations and occasions where this basic movement functionality is still desirable.

So... I think while we're stuck with the HMD/roomscale/motion controller paradigm of VR, controller direction will still be a desirable movement option.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Having a fixed cockpit in your view helps combat motion sickness. It's the same reason people don't get as sick from playing driving or flight sim games.

Ahhhh you're right! I forgot about that. That coupled with the fact you're "sitting down in a mech" in game probably helps a LOT.

 

[Zaptruder]

Ahhhh you're right! I forgot about that. That coupled with the fact you're "sitting down in a mech" in game probably helps a LOT.

It's worth noting that cockpit views aren't silver bullets for motion sickness.

It reduces the incidence of motion sickness because it provides users with a fixed reference point for their vestibular system to lock on to. But a lot of users can't fix their reference point to the cockpit.

Additionally, the horizon shifting that occurs in these experiences can seriously mess with people already on the edge in these experiences.

One of the solution vectors for reducing motion sickness is to lock the horizon and instead tilt the cockpit... so you get this weird mash up of using the cockpit to stabilize some of the visual motion, while not changing other bits of visual motion as much. But it works.

We're essentially figuring out how to hack the brain's motion sickness 'defenses'. It doesn't have to be pretty... it just has to work!

 

[Zalusithix]

We're essentially figuring out how to hack the brain's motion sickness 'defenses'. It doesn't have to be pretty... it just has to work!

The most recent approach seems to be clamping down on peripheral vision during movement. A number of experiments done with that now in addition to Ubisoft's Eagle Flight in development using the technique. It might just end up being one of the most versatile tools in a VR dev's shed to deal with motion sickness.

Which when you think about it, large opaque cockpits with a solid frame of reference actually do that as well. Mostly to the ground plane, but they are blocking a portion of the peripheral vision.

 

[Croatoan]

Although feet direction seems like the obvious end game for player directionality... it's only great for forward movement and much less so for side stepping or back tracking. Admittedly, these are things you do much less of when you can walk around with head look independent of movement vector... but there are definetly situations and occasions where this basic movement functionality is still desirable.

So... I think while we're stuck with the HMD/roomscale/motion controller paradigm of VR, controller direction will still be a desirable movement option.

I want ankle sensors for other stuff too. I can't tell you how many times people try and kick things in VR.

Kicking is something we should be able to do.

Also, a snowboarding (surfing) game would need ankle sensors to get more realistic controls for it.

 

[Zaptruder]

I want ankle sensors for other stuff too. I can't tell you how many times people try and kick things in VR.

Kicking is something we should be able to do.

Also, a snowboarding (surfing) game would need ankle sensors to get more realistic controls for it.

Oh yeah... fully body motion tracking (through camera) will always be the near term goal for the current VR paradigm. Getting as much of the player into VR as possible allows for more immersive presence enhancing opportunities for both players and for player to player interactions.

 

[Tain]

Even more VR pinball on the way with Zaccaria Pinball:

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Steam VR now supports Touch and multiple sensors.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4odxx2/steamvr_now_supports_oculus_touch_controllers/

 

[Tain]

Steam VR now supports Touch and multiple sensors.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4odxx2/steamvr_now_supports_oculus_touch_controllers/

Awesome. Would devs be able to check for and use the Touch-exclusive functionality via SteamVR?

 

[CuckFupertino]

So now that Razer is showing off the OSVR HDK 2 at E3, do we have any solid impressions of the HMD? I'm really curious as to whether this is a viable alternative to the Vive and Oculus.

I'm not really clear on which games it is compatible with. Will it work out of the box with Steam VR games?

 

[Crispy75]

Seeing as it doesn't have motion controllers, it won't run most games made for the Vive. Seated only, really.