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[Iced_Eagle]

Ok just got my Rift! (Finally!)

I have a quick question:

- What do I need to download to turn it into just a 3D monitor for games that dont have VR support? (Like say I want to play The Witcher 3 in 3D)

VorpX.

However, you very, very much need to temper your expectations with what software like that is capable in many cases. First, in general, expect to spend a lot of time tweaking the game to look right. Sometimes the profiles are fine, sometimes you need to spend a lot of time playing with all of the settings.

Second, keep in mind the games weren't made for this sort of support and sometimes things can break, look bad, have nauseating effects in VR, etc.

I used an early version around the DK2 time period, and while I'm certain its gotten better, my experience has shown its just better to play games like that in something like Steam Theater. I did check out Skyrim in VR, and while it was cool to look around and admire the architecture and creatures, it was not very enjoyable to play as a game.

 

[Tain]

Tabletop Simulator VR is killer app.

The pointer is a bit weird compared to having a hand, I think I'd rather have it work like a hand and just port around as needed. Or some way to toggle between both.

Your controller has two grabbing widgets: a pointer and a ball above the menu button. The ball is basically a hand, the pointer pushes stuff outwards.

 

[Teknopathetic]

I see, I was wondering what was up with the ball.

 

[Owlowiscious]

Is this the thread that had all that racheting talk?

Pool Nation VR uses ratcheting and I really like it a lot for small adjustments. Since I got my vive two months ago I don't know if it'd be unsettling for people without "VR legs" but for me and the person I was playing with, it was fine. teleporting and ratcheting for small adjustments was good, but then that'd take up a lot of the controls, so I can't see it being used everywhere, but it's nice.

 

[bj00rn_]

Is this the thread that had all that racheting talk?

Pool Nation VR uses ratcheting and I really like it a lot for small adjustments. Since I got my vive two months ago I don't know if it'd be unsettling for people without "VR legs" but for me and the person I was playing with, it was fine. teleporting and ratcheting for small adjustments was good, but then that'd take up a lot of the controls, so I can't see it being used everywhere, but it's nice.

Yeah, it's interesting that Pool Nation VR has both. And I found that ratcheting does not feel intuitive as a substitute for general locomotion. I much prefer teleportation, but ratcheting is perfect for Pool Nation when you need to do adjustments and f.ex. move the table away from your physical bounds.

 

[Zepp Twofist]

Is this the thread that had all that racheting talk?

Pool Nation VR uses ratcheting and I really like it a lot for small adjustments. Since I got my vive two months ago I don't know if it'd be unsettling for people without "VR legs" but for me and the person I was playing with, it was fine. teleporting and ratcheting for small adjustments was good, but then that'd take up a lot of the controls, so I can't see it being used everywhere, but it's nice.

Hot Dogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades has a game mode built around that movement style, and I found it really uncomfortable. Might be good for smaller adjustments like you say though. I haven't tried Pool Nation yet.

 

[Owlowiscious]

well the issue I found in pool nation is that it doesn't feel smooth.

maybe for long distances make it glide a bit? like as if you were on skis (I imagine) doing the cross country thing? where you push with your skis and glide a bit because you're on snow? like that. in pool nation it's to precise and jerky so it's jarring (perfect for pool nation's purpose of small adjustments, though)

 

[Clydebink]

VorpX.

However, you very, very much need to temper your expectations with what software like that is capable in many cases. First, in general, expect to spend a lot of time tweaking the game to look right. Sometimes the profiles are fine, sometimes you need to spend a lot of time playing with all of the settings.

Second, keep in mind the games weren't made for this sort of support and sometimes things can break, look bad, have nauseating effects in VR, etc.

I used an early version around the DK2 time period, and while I'm certain its gotten better, my experience has shown its just better to play games like that in something like Steam Theater. I did check out Skyrim in VR, and while it was cool to look around and admire the architecture and creatures, it was not very enjoyable to play as a game.

I think the original question was how to turn The Witcher 3 into a 3D game on a big screen rather than how to walk around it in virtual space. I don't know the answer though.

 

[elyetis]

Your controller has two grabbing widgets: a pointer and a ball above the menu button. The ball is basically a hand, the pointer pushes stuff outwards.

Oh right, it works pretty well.
They should probably allow you to hide or at least chose a transparency setting for the controller.
The ability to use one of your hand to easily hold many cards, while working as if they were in your 'territory' ( ie : other player can only see the back of the cards ) would be pretty sweet too.

I'm not complaining thought, it's already really good for a first release.

 

[RaySpencer]

VorpX.

However, you very, very much need to temper your expectations with what software like that is capable in many cases. First, in general, expect to spend a lot of time tweaking the game to look right. Sometimes the profiles are fine, sometimes you need to spend a lot of time playing with all of the settings.

Second, keep in mind the games weren't made for this sort of support and sometimes things can break, look bad, have nauseating effects in VR, etc.

I used an early version around the DK2 time period, and while I'm certain its gotten better, my experience has shown its just better to play games like that in something like Steam Theater. I did check out Skyrim in VR, and while it was cool to look around and admire the architecture and creatures, it was not very enjoyable to play as a game.

Ok cool. Thanks.

I think the original question was how to turn The Witcher 3 into a 3D game on a big screen rather than how to walk around it in virtual space. I don't know the answer though.

Yeah, I have an older Samsung monitor that does nvidia 3d vision stuff with active glasses and all that. It was always a little finicky to set up, but it worked and I loved it. But my setup now in my living room doesn't make it easy to use that monitor for anything more than just a little second screen beside my TV. I figured now that I got this Rift, I can set it up to do the same thing but better!

 

[Zalusithix]

Hot Dogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades has a game mode built around that movement style, and I found it really uncomfortable. Might be good for smaller adjustments like you say though. I haven't tried Pool Nation yet.

H3VR has sort of has it, but it's dependent on having actual hand holds in the virtual world to pull yourself along. It basically feels like you're going through a jungle gym / obstacle course. It's not an arbitrary movement solution there, and feels mostly natural. You reach to a hand hold, and pull yourself to it much like real life. It does break down when you pull yourself using a handhold that's on the top side of an object though. Your mind says "I need to climb up this thing to get my body on top of it." The game on the other hand only cares about your head, so your body just phases through the object and it feels wrong.

In PNVR you can use it as an arbitrary movement where the action is disconnected from the virtual world. It's fine for fine tuned movement where teleporting is overkill and walking is not viable. For large scale movement, however, it sucks. Isn't as convenient or as effective as teleporting, and doesn't feel natural either. That said, potential nausea issues aside, it does work decently for angular adjustment of the virtual world in relation to your play space.

Suffice to say, I'm less convinced than ever that ratcheting is a viable general movement technique.

 

[StudioTan]

Ok cool. Thanks.


Yeah, I have an older Samsung monitor that does nvidia 3d vision stuff with active glasses and all that. It was always a little finicky to set up, but it worked and I loved it. But my setup now in my living room doesn't make it easy to use that monitor for anything more than just a little second screen beside my TV. I figured now that I got this Rift, I can set it up to do the same thing but better!

You don't need Vorpx for that. You need Tridef 3D and Virtual Desktop. Tridef3D will output as SBS 3D and then VD will display that on a virtual screen in 3D.

Keep in mind the resolution won't be great.

 

[serversurfer]

well the issue I found in pool nation is that it doesn't feel smooth.

maybe for long distances make it glide a bit? like as if you were on skis (I imagine) doing the cross country thing? where you push with your skis and glide a bit because you're on snow? like that. in pool nation it's to precise and jerky so it's jarring (perfect for pool nation's purpose of small adjustments, though)

That's what I was suggesting for "long distance" movement, yes. Basically, the ratcheting works as it does now, but any (significant) linear velocity you have when you release the ratcheting button is retained until you bump in to something or grab again to spike yourself to a stop. So if you want to "strafe" along the side of the table, instead of performing two or three discreet ratchets, you'd just "push off" with a swipe of your hand, and then tap the button again to "catch" yourself at the far end of the table. You could even pretend to grab the rail, if that makes it feel more comfortable for you, but I don't think you'll need crutches like that for long.

It'd be like sliding yourself around on an office chair, basically. Or standing on a giant air hockey puck. Yeah, more like that.

 

[bj00rn_]

That's what I was suggesting for "long distance" movement, yes. Basically, the ratcheting works as it does now, but any (significant) linear velocity you have when you release the ratcheting button is retained until you bump in to something or grab again to spike yourself to a stop. So if you want to "strafe" along the side of the table, instead of performing two or three discreet ratchets, you'd just "push off" with a swipe of your hand, and then tap the button again to "catch" yourself at the far end of the table. You could even pretend to grab the rail, if that makes it feel more comfortable for you, but I don't think you'll need crutches like that for long.

It'd be like sliding yourself around on an office chair, basically. Or standing on a giant air hockey puck. Yeah, more like that.

Well, the lack of "sliding" is not what makes ratcheting like in Pool Nation VR feel unnatural. While teleportation is instantly accepted by my brain as fine, ratcheting feels a bit odd. It's ok for minor adjustments to the VR world in room scale like in Pool Nation VR, but not something I'd want to use for locomotion.

 

[KingSnake]

I don't know, I don't like ratcheting at all. If I'm too close to the chaperone bounds I rather walk back to the middle of it and teleport myself back to the virtual position than use ratcheting to adjust my position and walk back.

 

[BashNasty]

I love the ratcheting in Pool Nation and I use it all the time, even to move significant distances. I agree that it would be nice if you retained your momentum and could "catch" yourself at any point you wanted, that would make the technique feel even more fluid.

I really hope more VR games start to implement this as a movement method, as in a lot of ways I like it better than teleportation. I'm lucky enough to be seemingly completely immune to any VR/motion sickness though, so I could see people who suffer from that being less keen on the technique.

 

[RaySpencer]

You don't need Vorpx for that. You need Tridef 3D and Virtual Desktop. Tridef3D will output as SBS 3D and then VD will display that on a virtual screen in 3D.

Keep in mind the resolution won't be great.

Oh, ok!

Why wouldn't the resolution be great? I would assume it's like rendering the game twice, once per eye, but with some obvious overlap in what is rendering, so it wouldn't need to be litterally rendering twice.

 

[Krejlooc]

Someone might want to make a topic about this rumor:

http://vrworld.com/2016/06/03/cher-wang-vive-become-standalone-company/

it's been hinted at before, but here is another strong source claiming HTC will spin it's vive branch off into it's own company. The above also claims they will announce the next model of the Vive soon enough with updated screens.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Saw this blog/video of some tests around teleportation. Some interesting stuff. (Video)

 

[Paganmoon]

Someone might want to make a topic about this rumor:

http://vrworld.com/2016/06/03/cher-wang-vive-become-standalone-company/

it's been hinted at before, but here is another strong source claiming HTC will spin it's vive branch off into it's own company. The above also claims they will announce the next model of the Vive soon enough with updated screens.

The last paragraph is pretty much all speculation by the writer of the piece. So there really isn't much stock in it tbh.

 

[Otnopolit]

Have there been any rumblings of AAA studios working on Rift/Vive titles yet? I'm hoping some get announced at E3 to keep VR alive in the public image, you know? The platforms could use some good PR after all the shipping problems and lack of quality games at release.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Has anyone had luck getting DirectInput controllers to work with Lucky's Tale? x360ce and xoutput both don't work.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Have there been any rumblings of AAA studios working on Rift/Vive titles yet? I'm hoping some get announced at E3 to keep VR alive in the public image, you know? The platforms could use some good PR after all the shipping problems and lack of quality games at release.

Nothing huge, but Ubisoft has at least two in the works (Eagle's Flight & Werewolves Within) and EA just formed a small team (as in 30-40 people) to experiment with VR.

 

[Zalusithix]

Have there been any rumblings of AAA studios working on Rift/Vive titles yet? I'm hoping some get announced at E3 to keep VR alive in the public image, you know? The platforms could use some good PR after all the shipping problems and lack of quality games at release.

The "lack of quality games", IMO, is only a problem if you're comparing it against consoles significantly through their life cycle. I'm having no more difficulty finding something enjoyable to play in VR than I was at most console launches. Sure, there's no AAA level games, but being AAA doesn't make them good; just expensive with high production values.

I don't know why people expect the same, if not more, out of the launch of enthusiast level niche hardware that's just building up a user base as they do out of N'th generation consumer commodity level hardware backed by megacorps with millions of existing consumers frothing at the mouth for them.

 

[Tain]

Have there been any rumblings of AAA studios working on Rift/Vive titles yet? I'm hoping some get announced at E3 to keep VR alive in the public image, you know? The platforms could use some good PR after all the shipping problems and lack of quality games at release.

Depends on where you position Insomniac, I guess.

 

[Otnopolit]

The "lack of quality games", IMO, is only a problem if you're comparing it against consoles significantly through their life cycle. I'm having no more difficulty finding something enjoyable to play in VR than I was at most console launches. Sure, there's no AAA level games, but being AAA doesn't make them good; just expensive with high production values.

I don't know why people expect the same, if not more, out of the launch of enthusiast level niche hardware that's just building up a user base as they do out of N'th generation consumer commodity level hardware backed by megacorps with millions of existing consumers frothing at the mouth for them.

You make a salient point about the install base being so fresh, but at the same time, think about all those old console dinosaurs that were priced so high and they fell so fast. The price of making VR happen in your home is very high right now, and there's not much of anything to point to and say "This is why you need this".

As a person who is very interested in the potential of VR and wants to jump in some point in the (not so distant) future, I'm anxious about the thought of all of this falling apart before I even get to it.

 

[Zalusithix]

You make a salient point about the install base being so fresh, but at the same time, think about all those old console dinosaurs that were priced so high and they fell so fast. The price of making VR happen in your home is very high right now, and there's not much of anything to point to and say "This is why you need this".

As a person who is very interested in the potential of VR and wants to jump in some point in the (not so distant) future, I'm anxious about the thought of all of this falling apart before I even get to it.

Unfortunately, it's hard to point to anything in VR and say "This is why you need this". As an example, the game that I've played the most of (Audioshield), is actually one that I was skeptical of going in. Considering I was pro VR from the get go, I can only imagine what watching gameplay of it looks like to somebody who needs convincing of VR's merits. That's not to say every skeptic would like the game. Far from it. Just that it's virtually impossible to judge VR content without being in VR. It's an inherent marketing problem, and I don't see any great solution. The best is probably mixed reality with people's reactions, but that's still just a half measure compared to actually being there so to speak.

As for VR falling apart (at least in the gaming realm), that could happen with or without AAA level games. Having games with super high production values that can't be recouped by the small market could actually increase the chance of that happening. Not that I see VR failing. At least not on the broader scale. Too much potential in a number of sectors. It might stumble, but not fail outright.

 

[outunderthestars]

I got to play with a PlayStation VR helmet today.

It was really comfortable,but lightly out of focus. That said, the head tracking seemed great! The Screen door effect seemed a bit pronounced, but again it was only a 5 minute demo. FOV seemed ok, but I wish I had more time to compare.

The demo itself was really boring. It was the car chase shooting demo they have been showing for some time. The shooting felt lifeless and the overall "game" felt like a bad Wii tech demo with headtracking. Not really a big fan of the move controllers.

The whole experience left me mostly impressed, but waiting for second gen hardware.

 

[BarringGaffner]

I had a few hours with a Vive and a dozen or so games as my friend is a developer.

Overall it was a very cool experience. The feedback of the controllers was particularly impressive in combination with it connecting perfectly to my hand movement- In one magic/spell game (don't know the name) I played a xylophone and it truly felt like I was hitting it with the vibration. I really didn't expect that kind of immersion.

Though even after all that time in an optimal setup... I would never think about buying a headset, and I consider myself in the target market for this kind of thing. I just have no interest to dive back in again. I think the biggest barrier is closing myself off but also I just felt kinda nasty after having the headset on for an hour.

And in the last 10 minutes when the headset offset on my head slightly and I saw some echo in the image I didn't think much of it, but a few minutes later I was dizzy. That dizziness lasted a good hour or so after I had taken the headset off. Just mild dizziness but... about enough to turn me off of VR.

 

[Zalusithix]

I had a few hours with a Vive and a dozen or so games as my friend is a developer.

Overall it was a very cool experience. The feedback of the controllers was particularly impressive in combination with it connecting perfectly to my hand movement- In one magic/spell game (don't know the name) I played a xylophone and it truly felt like I was hitting it with the vibration. I really didn't expect that kind of immersion.

Though even after all that time in an optimal setup... I would never think about buying a headset, and I consider myself in the target market for this kind of thing. I just have no interest to dive back in again. I think the biggest barrier is closing myself off but also I just felt kinda nasty after having the headset on for an hour.

And in the last 10 minutes when the headset offset on my head slightly and I saw some echo in the image I didn't think much of it, but a few minutes later I was dizzy. That dizziness lasted a good hour or so after I had taken the headset off. Just mild dizziness but... about enough to turn me off of VR.

I find it interesting you got dizzy. Outside of Waltz of the Wizard, what did you play? Roomscale games, if properly maintaining 90fps, don't tend to lend themselves to the VR nausea. I'd question whether the PC was up to snuff, but I'd hope a dev would have sufficient hardware.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I find it interesting you got dizzy. Outside of Waltz of the Wizard, what did you play? Roomscale games, if properly maintaining 90fps, don't tend to lend themselves to the VR nausea. I'd question whether the PC was up to snuff, but I'd hope a dev would have sufficient hardware.

Sounds like it was just the stereoscopic image being off due to the headset being offset.

 

[DouglasteR]

Someone might want to make a topic about this rumor:

http://vrworld.com/2016/06/03/cher-wang-vive-become-standalone-company/

it's been hinted at before, but here is another strong source claiming HTC will spin it's vive branch off into it's own company. The above also claims they will announce the next model of the Vive soon enough with updated screens.

Hopefully, we can upgrade our screens !

 

[outunderthestars]

Figured I would post a pic of the ps4 breakout box.

 

[Zalusithix]

Sounds like it was just the stereoscopic image being off due to the headset being offset.

True, it's possible that the IPD or fit was off. I'd expect a dev to be cognizant of those aspects though and provide adequate instruction. It's also possible that the setup was suffering from extreme jitter issues. While all setups have some level of jitter, some people have recorded some rather extreme values. Long term exposure to an unstable world would probably wear on your mind. Finally, it could also just be that he's extremely sensitive to VR. Unlikely, but possible.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Figured I would post a pic of the ps4 breakout box.

I don't think we really need sneaky spy shots of it since we have high resolution pictures.

 

[Zalusithix]

I don't think we really need sneaky spy shots of it since we have high resolution pictures.

Old news, but I really dislike how they had to cram a fan in there. Wish they found a way to make it passively cooled. Granted you probably wont be able to hear it over the PS4 itself, but I just hate small, high RPM fans like that. With any luck it's a hybrid system where the fan remains off until the temperature exceeds a certain threshold, giving the possibility of being passive in an adequately cooled environment.

Then again, perhaps it'll be integrated into Neo, and I won't have to care.

 

[outunderthestars]

Old news, but I really dislike how they had to cram a fan in there. Wish they found a way to make it passively cooled. Granted you probably wont be able to hear it over the PS4 itself, but I just hate small, high RPM fans like that. With any luck it's a hybrid system where the fan remains off until the temperature exceeds a certain threshold, giving the possibility of being passive in an adequately cooled environment.

Then again, perhaps it'll be integrated into Neo, and I won't have to care.

This is what I am hoping for as well.

 

[Soi-Fong]

Got our Oculus Touch in the office! Gonna start integrating our stuff with this soon!

 

[Zalusithix]

Got our Oculus Touch in the office! Gonna start integrating our stuff with this soon!

I hope the second generation Vive apes the general style of the Touch controller. I don't want the sticks, and I'm indifferent about the face buttons, but move the sensor ring around the hand, and pitch the touchpad at more of an angle so it isn't totally in line with the handle. Steal the grip button concept too, as that seems better at first glance. Should be simultaneously more ergonomic and take up a smaller volume of space.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I hope the second generation Vive apes the general style of the Touch controller. I don't want the sticks, and I'm indifferent about the face buttons, but move the sensor ring around the hand, and pitch the touchpad at more of an angle so it isn't totally in line with the handle. Steal the grip button concept too, as that seems better at first glance. Should be simultaneously more ergonomic and take up a smaller volume of space.

I still don't really see what two touchpads offer over one or two sticks. The things the touchpads are great for on the Steam controller are as a replacement for a mouse, but since you've got two motion controllers for pointing plus the same from moving your head, there's no need to give you two other ways of doing that. By not having at least one stick you lose out on having an option for normal movement control or for doing something like piloting a ship in games like Elite.
What's the major benefit they have in VR over sticks?

 

[Zalusithix]

I still don't really see what two touchpads offer over one or two sticks. The things the touchpads are great for on the Steam controller are as a replacement for a mouse, but since you've got two motion controllers for pointing plus the same from moving your head, there's no need to give you two other ways of doing that. By not having at least one stick you lose out on having an option for normal movement control or for doing something like piloting a ship in games like Elite.
What's the major benefit they have in VR over sticks?

A touchpad doubles as a gesture recognition device and as an array of buttons as far as input goes. It's also the high frequency haptic feedback device. The only thing an analog stick does better is analog movement. Something that is less than ideal in VR. As for an analog on one and touchpad on the other controller, that ruins the ambidextrous nature of the controllers. With both functionally identical, lefties can play a game exactly the same as us right handed folks. Controls can easily be swapped between the two.

 

[Wrestlemania]

A touchpad doubles as a gesture recognition device and as an array of buttons as far as input goes. It's also the high frequency haptic feedback device. The only thing an analog stick does better is analog movement. Something that is less than ideal in VR. As for an analog on one and touchpad on the other controller, that ruins the ambidextrous nature of the controllers. With both functionally identical, lefties can play a game exactly the same as us right handed folks. Controls can easily be swapped between the two.

Gestures - I guess. I haven't done that with my Steam controller, not sure how much it could add given the amount of input options you already have from two motion tracked controller.
Using it for buttons - whenever I've tried this with the Steam controller it's been pretty terrible and not a good replacement for real buttons. I guess it's helpful if you don't have buttons available, but I'd rather just have a controller designed to have a few actual physical buttons.
Haptic feedback - doesn't need a trackpad to do that. On the Steam controller it's best use is the mimicking of a trackball spinning, which isn't as necessary for VR purposes. I'd rather have normal, stronger rumble feedback.

Not sure I understand what difference having one stick and one trackpad would make for lefties - assuming they kept the current identical design of the two parts, they can just swap them around!

I don't understand this thing about it only being good for analogue movement and therefore not a good fit for VR. Elite Dangerous, Lucky's Tale and Edge of Nowhere all use analogue controls and are great VR games. They don't use motion controls, but it's easy to imagine games similar to them that could use them - physically moving things around the world with your hands in a third person adventure game, interacting with the controls of a ship etc. That's not going to work nearly as well if you're having to use a trackpads as a emulated stick, which works pretty terribly.

 

[Zalusithix]

Gestures - I guess. I haven't done that with my Steam controller, not sure how much it could add given the amount of input options you already have from two motion tracked controller.
Using it for buttons - whenever I've tried this with the Steam controller it's been pretty terrible and not a good replacement for real buttons. I guess it's helpful if you don't have buttons available, but I'd rather just have a controller designed to have a few actual physical buttons.
Haptic feedback - doesn't need a trackpad to do that. On the Steam controller it's best use is the mimicking of a trackball spinning, which isn't as necessary for VR purposes. I'd rather have normal, stronger rumble feedback.

Not sure I understand what difference having one stick and one trackpad would make for lefties - assuming they kept the current identical design of the two parts, they can just swap them around!

I don't understand this thing about it only being good for analogue movement and therefore not a good fit for VR. Elite Dangerous, Lucky's Tale and Edge of Nowhere all use analogue controls and are great VR games. They don't use motion controls, but it's easy to imagine games similar to them that could use them - physically moving things around the world with your hands in a third person adventure game, interacting with the controls of a ship etc. That's not going to work nearly as well if you're having to use a trackpads as a emulated stick, which works pretty terribly.

Using the touchpad as buttons works fine. H3VR and PNVR both use it as such, and I've never hit the wrong part of the pad by accident. Well, except when I forget what part is supposed to do something, but that'd be akin to forgetting what a button does. The fact that it can be anything from one giant button to a couple of hemispheres, to four buttons with plenty of wiggle room, and change contextually on the fly gives it lots flexability. Gesture control is demonstrated by Hover Junker's whip around the pad revolver reloading. I expect more games to experiment with it as time goes by.

The haptic feedback is actually linked to the pad. The large speaker-like surface area is required to give it the feedback. And I wouldn't trade it for traditional rumble in a million years. Perhaps add regular rumble in addition to, but not instead of. You can't get feedback like the archery game in The Lab, or the perfectly timed pulses in Audioshield with normal rumble motors.

For flipping controllers between left and right handed - that's possible now, but not if they go with something more like the Touch controllers which are more ergonomically designed. If the controllers are ergonomically designed per hand, the functionality must be identical to support ambidextrous control schemes.

Finally for analog movement, none of those games require tracked controllers in the first place. Need an analog stick for more traditional games? Use a controller with one. I'm not a fan of requiring one controller to do everything. I'd rather they do one thing well than be a jack of all trades. For everything that isn't analog movement, the pad can work. You just need to stop thinking about emulating an analog stick in the first place. Just like you have to stop thinking about controlling tracked VR games like traditional games in general.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Using the touchpad as buttons works fine. H3VR and PNVR both use it as such, and I've never hit the wrong part of the pad by accident. Well, except when I forget what part is supposed to do something, but that'd be akin to forgetting what a button does. The fact that it can be anything from one giant button to a couple of hemispheres, to four buttons with plenty of wiggle room, and change contextually on the fly gives it lots flexability. Gesture control is demonstrated by Hover Junker's whip around the pad revolver reloading. I expect more games to experiment with it as time goes by.

The haptic feedback is actually linked to the pad. The large speaker-like surface area is required to give it the feedback. And I wouldn't trade it for traditional rumble in a million years. Perhaps add regular rumble in addition to, but not instead of. You can't get feedback like the archery game in The Lab, or the perfectly timed pulses in Audioshield with normal rumble motors.

For flipping controllers between left and right handed - that's possible now, but not if they go with something more like the Touch controllers which are more ergonomically designed. If the controllers are ergonomically designed per hand, the functionality must be identical to support ambidextrous control schemes.

Finally for analog movement, none of those games require tracked controllers in the first place. Need an analog stick for more traditional games? Use a controller with one. I'm not a fan of requiring one controller to do everything. I'd rather they do one thing well than be a jack of all trades. For everything that isn't analog movement, the pad can work. You just need to stop thinking about emulating an analog stick in the first place. Just like you have to stop thinking about controlling tracked VR games like traditional games in general.

I mean, this is all about what creates game design options, right? So to me, while a touchpad could conceivably enable some things that sticks can't, I can much more easily imagine games which can benefit from a combination of analogue movement, motion controls and an immersive VR view of the game.

I said that those games I listed don't require tracked controllers - the point was that they're examples of games which use analogue control for character/other movement and are perfectly good VR games. Too often when people talk about analogue control not being suitable, I think they're just thinking of dual stick first person games which of course don't suit VR, but third person and cockpit games are proven to work in VR, and since sticks are incredibly useful for those and it's odd how quickly people want to dismiss them.

And as I said, it is not difficult to imagine games similar to those which then could utilise motion controls - I've wanted a 3D platformer that allows you to movement platforms around since the Wii, but it's only with VR where your hands will actually be in the world that it'll really make sense. Only a matter of time before someone does that, and I'm going to want an analogue stick to move my character.

 

[BarringGaffner]

I find it interesting you got dizzy. Outside of Waltz of the Wizard, what did you play? Roomscale games, if properly maintaining 90fps, don't tend to lend themselves to the VR nausea. I'd question whether the PC was up to snuff, but I'd hope a dev would have sufficient hardware.

it was fine until the headset was sitting a bit too high at the end of the session (I started shifting it around because having it on for an hour was a bit uncomfortable), and that was causing a bit of blurriness in the image. It was my fault for not taking the time to readjust really but it still sucked once the dizziness set in.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

it was fine until the headset was sitting a bit too high at the end of the session (I started shifting it around because having it on for an hour was a bit uncomfortable), and that was causing a bit of blurriness in the image. It was my fault for not taking the time to readjust really but it still sucked once the dizziness set in.

You should try giving the other headsets a try when you get a chance, since they are all somewhat different in terms of weight, comfort, etc.

 

[Zalusithix]

And as I said, it is not difficult to imagine games similar to those which then could utilise motion controls - I've wanted a 3D platformer that allows you to movement platforms around since the Wii, but it's only with VR where your hands will actually be in the world that it'll really make sense. Only a matter of time before someone does that, and I'm going to want an analogue stick to move my character.

Perhaps implement a cheap nunchuck sort of additional controller where it's not a tracked controller, but gives you an analog and traditional face buttons that can be used in conjunction with a tracked controller? Honestly everything is a compromise. I just don't care for the compromises that an analog makes in general standing/roomscale VR.

it was fine until the headset was sitting a bit too high at the end of the session (I started shifting it around because having it on for an hour was a bit uncomfortable), and that was causing a bit of blurriness in the image. It was my fault for not taking the time to readjust really but it still sucked once the dizziness set in.

Yeah, VR nausea isn't fun. Subtle things that are "off" by even minor amounts can add up over time and affect you over the long run. Anything from dropped frames resulting in judder, to slightly off headset positioning and the accompanying blur, to the wrong IPD setting.

VR is great when everything is right, but it's very sensitive to when things go wrong. Which is why I'm not a huge fan of ATW being heavily leaned on in VR. Tools that help with any errant hitching are great. Using them to maintain general performance, not so much.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Perhaps implement a cheap nunchuck sort of additional controller where it's not a tracked controller, but gives you an analog and traditional face buttons that can be used in conjunction with a tracked controller? Honestly everything is a compromise. I just don't care for the compromises that an analog makes in general standing/roomscale VR.

How does having analogue sticks on a motion controller compromise it for standing/roomscale in a way that a trackpad doesn't?
I guess you could have a secondary controller with a stick and buttons, but then why not make it tracked? More utility that way.

 

[Zalusithix]

How does having analogue sticks on a motion controller compromise it for standing/roomscale in a way that a trackpad doesn't?
I guess you could have a secondary controller with a stick and buttons, but then why not make it tracked? More utility that way.

I already went into how I believe the touchpads are more flexible and at least as good as an analog stick for everything that isn't analog movement. As for why no tracking on the secondary controller? Just a cost measure. Less sensors, less logic, less need to build the controller like a tank as it wont be smashing into walls. Just an off the hip sort of idea at any rate.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I already went into how I believe the touchpads are more flexible and at least as good as an analog stick for everything that isn't analog movement

But none of your examples are specifically things that would mean an analogue stick is a compromised solution when used for roomscale/standing. In fact one, the gesture control, in reality is unlikely to give much extra utility than you'd get from the range of motion you can do with one or two analogue sticks. So what's left that makes them better for room scale?
Look, you like touchpads. Fine. But I'm not seeing any compelling argument that they open up any new game design possibilities that make up for the fact that they cannot replace a stick for games where analogue movement is required. You may not be interested in those sorts of games, but since the sticks are there on the Touch controller I bet we're going to see a lot of them and it's just a shame they're not going to port well to the Vive. On the other hand, I doubt we'll see many Vive games that won't port well to Touch because it doesn't have touchpads.