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[GReeeeN]

Are you talking about the War Thunder dev? I got the impression he was just trying to say there wouldn't be any room-scale stuff in WT, and he just wasn't doing a very good job of it.

That, or he was confused and thought Vive wasn't suitable for small spaces, which a lot of folks mistakenly believed when it was first announced.

No, I'm just asking if the majority of the games being released for each headset are going to be exclusive for that one platform.

For example if I buy an oculus and valve release a really cool first party game, will it only be available for Vive?, or if a 3rd party developer releases a really cool looking game on vive, will oculus people be unable to play it?

If so, I'm definitely going to reconsider purchasing VR until we get some parity and accessibility across the headsets. Forking out $800 and being locked into a small ecosystem of exclusive games sounds horrible.

 

[GReeeeN]

Yeah, what constitutes "high end" is obviously not going to be nailed down, but given that PSVR has the highest refresh rate of the three, the only RGB screen of the three, and that it has all the bird's-eye view major-checkbox functionality of its competitors, I think it pretty safely has a place in here.

Anyway, I'm so fucking excited. I have a Rift preordered, and I see myself jumping on the Vive fairly quickly to get my hands on those motion controllers and try to get them going in my game.

PSVR is also a must-buy at some point for Rez and surely other eventual exclusives (assuming Japanese VR gaming will lean toward it, after all).

Your planing to purchase all 3 headsets?, really?, especially with the current state of the games?

 

[Cartman86]

So watching these vive videos makes me think maybe the Vive is the better option than the oculus. My question is, is htc selling in waves like oculus? If I preordered now when would I get it?

They are indeed selling in waves like Oculus. If you preorder the Vive now it will ship in May

 

[Dusktildawn48]

They are indeed selling in waves like Oculus. If you preorder the Vive now it will ship in May

Someone tell me what to do! I like the being able to move around thing. Especially crouching. Can you turn 360 degrees with oculus?

May wouldn't be so bad, gives me more time to save up.

 

[Fess]

Your planing to purchase all 3 headsets?, really?, especially with the current state of the games?

Same thing could be said to many of us at the start of every new console gen.
It's nice to know that you'll be able to play all games no matter where they're released.
I'll sit at the fence on first gen of VR though, I don't think the tech is mature enough yet.

 

[Haint]

StressLevelZero has 2 hours left in their Indigogo campaign. Their online multiplayer shooter Hover Junkers is a Vive and Oculus Touch launch title. They just hit the goal today, but if you planned on backing and pre-ordering a copy of the game along with having your name put on an in-game monument this is your last chance.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hover-junkers#/

$35 is steep for what they've shown of that, which seems limited to MP shootouts on small floating platforms.

Your planing to purchase all 3 headsets?, really?, especially with the current state of the games?

They all have (and will have) exclusives unfortunately, so you're kind of forced to.

 

[Raticus79]

Your planing to purchase all 3 headsets?, really?, especially with the current state of the games?

Oculus has the best headset, Vive has the room scale tracking (available at launch), and PSVR has its own exclusives. Can't pick one and have it all.

I went for the Vive because I'm interested in the Lighthouse controllers as a general input device.

 

[Ogni-XR21]

Great OP. I've been reading every VR topic lately so I'm happy to have one go to topic for VR. While I will only be able to get PSVR at first, I'm very interested in PCVR too.

 

[Tain]

Your planing to purchase all 3 headsets?, really?, especially with the current state of the games?

I'd probably stick with either the Rift+PSVR or Vive+PSVR if I didn't have my own project that I'd like to ensure works well on both the Rift and Vive.

Plus, when I say the PSVR is eventual, I'm talking a pretty wide timeframe. That might be after a price drop. But we'll see how much I can resist VR Rez, lol.

 

[Cartman86]

Someone tell me what to do! I like the being able to move around thing. Especially crouching. Can you turn 360 degrees with oculus?

May wouldn't be so bad, gives me more time to save up.

You can turn 360 degrees with Oculus (there are trackers on the back of the headset). Oculus will technically be able to support some form of room scale and hand interactivity when Touch comes out, but the question is if they will go for a corner setup for the cameras (like the Vive). If they do that the experience will probably be very similar to Vive (with some minor differences at least for the standard 15x15 room). If Oculus goes for the two front facing camera configuration (which is what they've shown so far) then anytime you turn around you will lose your hands in some positions as those controllers will no longer be visible to the cameras.

I've preordered both, but i'm most excited by the Vive by far. Assuming you have the space of course I would go with the Vive. There are going to be more exclusive games from well known developers on the Rift at launch though so maybe take a look at those and see if they appeal more than room scale.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

You can turn 360 degrees with Oculus (there are trackers on the back of the headset). Oculus will technically be able to support some form of room scale and hand interactivity when Touch comes out, but the question is if they will go for a corner setup for the cameras (like the Vive). If they do that the experience will probably be very similar to Vive (with some minor differences at least for the standard 15x15 room). If Oculus goes for the two front facing camera configuration (which is what they've shown so far) then anytime you turn around you will lose your hands in some positions as those controllers will no longer be visible to the cameras.

I've preordered both, but i'm most excited by the Vive by far. Assuming you have the space of course I would go with the Vive. There are going to be more exclusive games from well known developers on the Rift at launch though so maybe take a look at those and see if they appeal more than room scale.

Thanks man! Perfect answer! Last question, would I get charged now or later for a vive preorder?

 

[Cartman86]

Thanks man! Perfect answer! Last question, would I get charged now or later for a vive preorder?

They put a hold on your card, but don't take any of the money out if you go that route (There is massive anxiously on Vive discussion threads over this that I chose to ignore or I would go crazy in fear of not getting it at launch). If you pay through Paypal they charge right away. Either way I believe you want to have the money in your account.

This is the official word from HTC.

 

[GReeeeN]

Same thing could be said to many of us at the start of every new console gen.
It's nice to know that you'll be able to play all games no matter where they're released.
I'll sit at the fence on first gen of VR though, I don't think the tech is mature enough yet.

I would totally agree with you if VR was an already established platform. I also purchase new consoles on release/ within the first year of as I have a good idea what to expect and even specific titles coming out (uncharted's, halos, gears etc)

VR on the other hand, we haven't really seen any "real solid games" or even substantial support from any major
Publisher. Yes the tech demos look amazing and PSVR does seem to be the only platform at this stage to have slightly decent content, but again these games (at his stage) are just flushed out tech demos.

Forking out over 2 grand on all 3 systems in the first gen when 99.99% of what we've seen has been tech demos just seems insane. We haven't even seen any support from Ubisoft or EA or any other large 3rd party publisher on VR games. Who knows if they'll even support it in the future. VR could just turn into a platform for indies and tech demos.

I'm very hesitant buying 1 due to the lack of support and lack of content, but purchasing all 3 at this point just seems ridiculous.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

They put a hold on your card, but don't take any of the money out if you go that route (There is massive anxiously on Vive discussion threads over this that I chose to ignore or I would go crazy in fear of not getting it at launch). If you pay through Paypal they charge right away. Either way I believe you want to have the money in your account.

This is the official word from HTC.

I'm an idiot. What is a hold?

 

[Cartman86]

I would totally agree with you if VR was an already established platform. I also purchase new consoles on release/ within the first year of as I have a good idea what to expect and even specific titles coming out (uncharted's, halos, gears etc)

VR on the other hand, we haven't really seen any "real solid games" or even substantial support from any major
Publisher. Yes the tech demos look amazing and PSVR does seem to be the only platform at this stage to have slightly decent content, but again these games (at his stage) are just flushed out tech demos.

Forking out over 2 grand on all 3 systems in the first gen when 99.99% of what we've seen has been tech demos just seems insane. We haven't even seen any support from Ubisoft or EA or any other large 3rd party publisher on VR games. Who knows if they'll even support it in the future. VR could just turn into a platform for indies and tech demos.

I'm very hesitant buying 1 due to the lack of support and lack of content, but purchasing all 3 at this point just seems ridiculous.

That's because Ubisoft and EA have become risk averse. The cool ideas and innovation are coming from indie devs. VR doesn't need the old guard. I will welcome those games when they arrive, but the stuff i've played so far is new and novel as fuck without well warn game design tropes.

 

[Cartman86]

I'm an idiot. What is a hold?

I'm an idiot too and don't really know. I think it's a tiny amount charged to your account that will show up briefly so they can determine you have money. Some banks don't even display the hold to you. This may seem like that means they are only charging a little bit and won't charge the full amount until later, but the esu HTC puts it on that website makes it all confusing. All I can say for sure is that they haven't charged me yet, but it's possible they checked to make sure I had the money in my account at the time of the order.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"We haven't even seen any support from Ubisoft or EA or any other large 3rd party publisher on VR games. Who knows if they'll even support it in the future. VR could just turn into a platform for indies and tech demos."

Perfect.

 

[Raticus79]

I'm an idiot. What is a hold?

I'm an idiot too and don't really know. I think it's a tiny amount charged to your account that will show up briefly so they can determine you have money. Some banks don't even display the hold to you. This may seem like that means they are only charging a little bit and won't charge the full amount until later, but the HTC puts it makes it all confusing. All I can say for sure is that they haven't charged me yet, but it's possible they checked to make sure I had the money in my account at the time of the order.

Yeah, I had a $1 charge shown in pending transactions which eventually went away without going through. It's similar to what happens when you pre-authorize at a gas pump before filling up.

Man these gifs are great. It's one of the best ways I've seen of trying to show what VR feels like to play. It's not hyperbole or over selling, you are literally in the game, simple as that.

It solves a huge problem for marketing VR. It's similar to what MS did with the Hololens demo. Hopefully other games pick up this technique.
There would probably be a market for selling a little software kit to let people do this on their own - people would like videos of themselves (or their kids) doing cool stuff like this. It would be great for watching artists in Tilt Brush.
Edit:

Valve added it natively to Steam VR Unity plugin last week. Really hope this makes it dead simple for most games to implement it for outlets like Giantbomb to use in their coverage.

Yessss

This AudioShield video is another great example of that mixed reality technique for demonstrations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSsdsu4yIk

You think a platform can survive solely based off indie titles and self published games?

It's already surviving. It's just not surviving to AAA standards yet. If that's what you're focusing on, wait. They'll be happy to get on board once others develop the market for them.

 

[GReeeeN]

"We haven't even seen any support from Ubisoft or EA or any other large 3rd party publisher on VR games. Who knows if they'll even support it in the future. VR could just turn into a platform for indies and tech demos."

Perfect.

You think a platform can survive solely based off indie titles and self published games?

I really want VR to succeed, I definitely believe it's the next leep in gaming, but for that to happen, we need to bring it to the mass public and get major funding behind it. This will result in better games, more support, and more return on investment from developers. Yes purchasing VR early is exciting and will contribute to the success of the platform, but to purchase all 3 in the first gen without any real solid support at this stage seems very risky.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Very nice thread, OP. Good work. Whatever device you pick up, know we all are about to be eatin!

You think a platform can survive solely based off indie titles and self published games?

strictly speaking, that's a function of how many units of hardware are sold and how well the games attach rate is. If the attach rate is good and hardware is in homes, developers will come. I wouldn't lose sleep over whether EA or Ubi are making games for VR. It's really just a matter of time.

 

[Cartman86]

Yeah, I had a $1 charge shown in pending transactions which eventually went away without going through. It's similar to what happens when you pre-authorize at a gas pump before filling up.



It solves a huge problem for marketing VR. It's similar to what MS did with the Hololens demo. Hopefully other games pick up this technique. There would probably be a market for selling a little software kit to let people do this on their own - people would like videos of themselves (or their kids) doing cool stuff like this.



It's already surviving. It's just not surviving to AAA standards yet. If that's what you're focusing on, wait. They'll be happy to get on board once others develop the market for them.

Valve added it natively to the Steam VR Unity plugin last week. Really hope this makes it dead simple for most games to implement it for outlets like Giantbomb to use in their coverage.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Valve added it natively to Steam VR last week. Really hope this makes it dead simple most games to just implement it and outlets like Giantbomb can use it in their coverage.

oh this will be sensational.

 

[Lemonte]

Off the top of my head I can think of two VR games from Ubisoft. The Eagle Flight and Trackmania Turbo.

 

[Bizzquik]

Question on vorpX:
Anyone have any experience with this program, or programs like it?

I'm wondering how games that were not created with VR in mind play in virtual reality using third-party apps like this.

vorpX sounds interesting to me because of its two modes - "Full VR" and "Virtual Cinema 3D." I'm curious if first-person games in non-native VR can be an original way to experience a game through to completion, or if this program is just a novelty with little long-term practical use.

 

[Monger]

"We haven't even seen any support from Ubisoft or EA or any other large 3rd party publisher on VR games. Who knows if they'll even support it in the future. VR could just turn into a platform for indies and tech demos."

Perfect.

Ubisoft is working on VR.There is a full VR game Eagle Flight where you fly around an abandoned Paris. It has single player missions and 6 person multiplayer dog fighting. And then trackmania turbo will also have VR support.

Edit: A little late

 

[Raticus79]

Question on vorpX:
Anyone have any experience with this program, or programs like it?

I'm wondering how games that were not created with VR in mind play in virtual reality using third-party apps like this.

vorpX sounds interesting to me because of its two modes - "Full VR" and "Virtual Cinema 3D." I'm curious if first-person games in non-native VR can be an original way to experience a game through to completion, or if this program is just a novelty with little long-term practical use.

I tried it with virtual cinema in GTA5. If you've ever tried a 3D Vision setup, it's a similar experience - like playing on a large 3DTV. There's some depth, but it's not 1:1, so it feels off. Nothing like a real GTA VR would be. It also has similar rendering problems as other 3D Vision implementations where sometimes you get duplicate/wrong shadows, etc.
Other games may have better results - I didn't try it out much beyond that.

 

[ArtHands]

Cyber Danganronpa is just a tech demo too if i am not wrong.

 

[GReeeeN]

Very nice thread, OP. Good work. Whatever device you pick up, know we all are about to be eatin!



strictly speaking, that's a function of how many units of hardware are sold and how well the games attach rate is. If the attach rate is good and hardware is in homes, developers will come. I wouldn't lose sleep over whether EA or Ubi are making games for VR. It's really just a matter of time.

The vita has an attach rate of 10:1 which is insanely high, one of the highest in the industry. So when you do the calculation of 12 million Vita units shipped world wide, the software sales are very high. Cost of entry was also very low, whilst VR is through the roof. Look at the Vita now, it's dead. 3rd party support dropped very quickly after its release and 1st party releases substantially dropped. Without major support from 3rd parties and a handful of games from 1st parties, developers won't be interested in investing.

The vita was basically a portable indie machine with a very high attach rate, but people determine it as a massive failure.
Attatch rate does not equal success, major 3rd party support, mass appeal and return on investment does.

I'm not saying we should rely on Ubisoft or EA to make VR successful, I'm saying buying all 3 systems this early in its life cycle without any solid foundation of support and funding is very risky.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"You think a platform can survive solely based off indie titles and self published games?"

Yes. However, you're putting the cart before the horse. If this wave of VR succeeds, large 3rd party publisher support is an inevitability. They're not going to lead the charge.

Furthermore, I find only considering games made by the large 3rd party publishers "real" games a bit silly. 3rd party big budget games become more mechanically shallow with each passing year.


"I'm not saying we should rely on Ubisoft or EA to make VR successful, I'm saying buying all 3 systems this early in its life cycle without any solid foundation of support and funding is very risky."

Setting aside the fact that I don't think it's all that risky if someone is very excited for VR, you missed the rest of the post where Tain explains that part of the motivation for purchasing all 3 is development.

 

[Cartman86]

Cyber Danganronpa is just a tech demo too if i am not wrong.

God dammit you keep breaking my heart with these Japanese VR tech demos.

 

[GReeeeN]

"You think a platform can survive solely based off indie titles and self published games?"

Yes. However, you're putting the cart before the horse. If this wave of VR succeeds, large 3rd party publisher support is an inevitability. They're not going to lead the charge.

Furthermore, I find only considering games made by the large 3rd party publishers "real" games a bit silly. 3rd party big budget games become more mechanically shallow with each passing year.

I agree, this first wave will definitely indicate if 3rd party support will be a thing in the future, so why buy all 3 products now for tech demos and the beginning of a whole new industry?

I'm not saying 3rd party games are "real games". 3rd party games do provide the budget to provide full fledged experiences compared to 30-60 minute experiences which are essentially tech demos. I highly predict the first full "4-6 hour story based experience" we will see on VR will be released by a developer/ publisher with some real money behind them.

EDIT: I guess I'm only looking at it from a consumer/ value for money point of view

 

[Nightengale]

God dammit you keep breaking my heart with these Japanese VR tech demos.

The state of many VR's showcases as products are still unclear at this stage.

On top of what's been mentioned for Summer Lesson, Danganronpa & FFXIV, Driveclub as well, has not been officially announced as a shipping VR product.

Granted, there's an extremely high chance it'll be an official product, but it's not one yet as of this post.

Even Dreams has not been "officially" confirmed as a product that will have VR support. It's got a hundred wink wink nudge from Media Molecule employees, but nothing signed in blood. =P

 

[Faith]

I'm glad someone came up with this thread.

 

[harSon]

Very nice thread, OP. Good work. Whatever device you pick up, know we all are about to be eatin!



strictly speaking, that's a function of how many units of hardware are sold and how well the games attach rate is. If the attach rate is good and hardware is in homes, developers will come. I wouldn't lose sleep over whether EA or Ubi are making games for VR. It's really just a matter of time.

I've kind of touched on this in the past:

The price of entry is going to be substantial, and as a byproduct of that barrier, the install base is going to be relatively slim. 3rd party developers (indie is most certainly included within this demographic) always dictate the success, or lack thereof, of any piece of gaming hardware. In an industry that is anything but stable, publishers and developers have become less willing to take risks, and supporting VR in any meaningful way would be counter intuitive to that phenomenon. They're all about about the safe bet, and unfortunately for VR, the safe bet isn't developing games exclusively for an install base (owning a VR headset) of an install base (owning a Playstation 4, flagship phone or Computer powerful enough to utilize VR) of an install base (gamers in general).

This is the fate of all peripheral add-ons. 3rd party developers are already reluctant to develop exclusively for a platform, due to the fact that it needlessly restricts the sales potential of their software. What makes people think they're going to be willing to inject considerable resources into an even smaller pot? Yes, they'll cover their bases to ensure that they don't completely miss the boat in the off chance that it ultimately does succeed, but this typically comes in the form of a publisher utilizing one of their lesser teams, or worse, simply tacking on VR support on an existing game that wasn't built from the ground up to utilize the technology.

It's kind of a vicious cycle. Peripherals require a constant stream of quality games to entice consumers, but publishers are unwilling to provide them until the install base is worth investing in. The Kinect had an install base exceeding 24 million, and 3rd party developers still failed to support it due to the fact that it made more sense to develop for the combined install base of 160+ million between the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3.

I own an Oculus Rift DK2, Galaxy S7/GearVR and am expecting my consumer Oculus Rift in late March/Early April. I'm personally not worried about the technology at the forefront of its retail existence, because early adopters will literally purchase anything and everything to test out the new tech. But a few years from now? I'm not quite as hopeful. I actually think stuff like GearVR might have a better chance of cracking open the market, especially if Oculus is able to strike similar deals with other phone manufacturers similar to the one they have with Samsung.

Hope I'm wrong though!

 

[Cartman86]

I don't know how much of a game it will be, but considering how blurry that is with VR I figured I would mention this.

A trailer of one of the Star Wars VR things the ILMxLab has been working on briefly leaked onto Youtube today. The speculation is it will be released on the Vive soon. ILM has a talk scheduled for GDC as well. Wouldn't surprise me to see this in conjunction with the Vive launch and Force Awakens DVD release (both April 5th).

http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/11/star-wars-trials-on-tattooine-htc-vive/

 

[Bizzquik]

I tried it with virtual cinema in GTA5. If you've ever tried a 3D Vision setup, it's a similar experience - like playing on a large 3DTV. There's some depth, but it's not 1:1, so it feels off. Nothing like a real GTA VR would be. It also has similar rendering problems as other 3D Vision implementations where sometimes you get duplicate/wrong shadows, etc.
Other games may have better results - I didn't try it out much beyond that.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Kevin]

Has anyone tried Mirror's Edge with the DK2? How well does the experience work?

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Excellent OP! Is it definitely Mini DisplayPort on the Vive breakout box?

 

[Cartman86]

Excellent OP! Is it definitely Mini DisplayPort on the Vive breakout box?

It is

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Cheers, another cable it is then.

 

[NaughtyPrawn]

Great Thread. Still absolutely torn between getting the Vive or the Rift. (Will be getting PSVR regardless).

 

[tr00per]

I've kind of touched on this in the past:

Well said. My thoughts exactly but I didn't want to type that all out

A trailer of one of the Star Wars VR things

Nice find! Looks pretty sweet!

 

[orava]

Is the horizontal distance of the lenses adjustable in rift or vive? I have used gearvr and it's pretty much impossible to get the lenses and eyes aligned properly. I have a too big head i guess.

Those resolutions seem really low for a high end devices. Even with a 2560x1440 phone screen, the image quality is just horrible.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

The Vive Pre did (which is what some press and youtubers have got). Not actually sure if this was clarified for the final version. It might be what's refereed to as "Vive Accessories" in the box.

I've asked HTC about this, should get a reply tomorrow.

 

[Lemonte]

Is the horizontal distance of the lenses adjustable in rift or vive? I have used gearvr and it's pretty much impossible to get the lenses and eyes aligned properly. I have a too big head i guess.

Those resolutions seem really low for a high end devices. Even with a 2560x1440 phone screen, the image quality is just horrible.

yes at least on Vive

Vive-pre user guide

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

yes at least on Vive

Vive-pre user guide

From what I gather, you can also shift the lenses forwards and backwards too right?

 

[AwesomeMeat]

Has anyone tried Mirror's Edge with the DK2? How well does the experience work?

I've played it on my DK2 using VorpX. It works well enough and is fun but unfortunately there are actions that take the control of the camera away from the player. Things like climbing and sliding are pretty uncomfortable.

I don't ever get VR sickness but taking the camera control away from the player will certainly make some people sick.

 

[Lemonte]

From what I gather, you can also shift the lenses forwards and backwards too right?

Yes

 

[mrklaw]

Interesting comment about moving the VR around to different rooms. If likely only do that for the vive, and was expecting to lug the PC back and forth.

What kind of length can you get with an active USB 2 cable? I've done long runs with HDMI so I'm less concerned with that.

Does the breakout box also feed HDMI back out to a Tv so people can spectate?

 

[mrklaw]

Is the horizontal distance of the lenses adjustable in rift or vive? I have used gearvr and it's pretty much impossible to get the lenses and eyes aligned properly. I have a too big head i guess.

Yes on both headsets

(Edited for clarity)