I believe it is handled like the DK2 is where it's just software based and shifts the images on the screens. Haven't had a chance to use PSVR but being able to adjust IPD is a massive must have for all three of these headsets, and the PC ones both have mechanical adjustments to the screens.
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The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)
- Thread starter Cartman86
- Start date
I believe it is handled like the DK2 is where it's just software based and shifts the images on the screens. Haven't had a chance to use PSVR but being able to adjust IPD is a massive must have for all three of these headsets, and the PC ones both have mechanical adjustments to the screens.
Not that I'm any sort of expert, but it's pretty adjustable overall. Though I don't believe the lenses can move toward /away from each other.
piratepwnsninja
Member
Interesting if this is Vive exclusive
http://www.roadtovr.com/star-wars-trials-in-tatooine-coming-to-htc-vive-leaked-trailer-indicates/
edit: Definitely seems like it is Vive exclusive.
http://www.roadtovr.com/star-wars-trials-in-tatooine-coming-to-htc-vive-leaked-trailer-indicates/
edit: Definitely seems like it is Vive exclusive.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I agree. I am being a smartass.
Oculus will just open that Facebook money and secure it's own exclusives.
Looking forward to seeing impressions on it and some robust testing. But we probably shouldn't think of it as a solution for motion sickness at this point.
Problem is current GVS tech that we're aware of, the fidelity of vestibular stimulation is fairly low, and more importantly only occurs on a couple of axes - rotating along the front to back axis, and yaw (rotating along the top and bottom axis). Tilt (rotating along the left to right axis) isn't very good so far... and translational movement just doesn't work very well if at all.
So... if they've cracked the problem, that'll be amazing. If they're just packaging what's out there up and turning it into a prototype, less so.
Basically it's great for the future of VR, but for now, developers should still continue solving the issue through design and awareness of the specifics.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
So if PSVR matches up so well all considering, why is it primmed to be so much cheaper? Is Sony selling it at a loss to profit from software/PS4 sales? Better retail partnerships as a hardware distributor thus allowing for more competitive pricing?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That, and they make a lot of their own stuff, sensors, etc..
They been doing hardware for over 50 years... I am sure that gives them better pricing opportunities with partners, etc..
Iced_Eagle
Member
Well the display is only a single 1080p panel compared to two vertical higher resolution displays in Rift and Vive.
Their tracking solution isn't as complex as Rift and Vive. The camera has already been made for a few years so they probably have been able to reduce its cost, and the same with Move controllers which have been out for a while.
Plus, they can easily subsidize since they get money off of every single game sold since it's a walled garden.
Tl;dr - lower end components, walled garden and smart reuse of existing products which already have been cost reduced.
Point is ps4 sucks in comparison to a gaming PC in terms of hardware power. I'm confident that is where the not high end is coming from. It has nothing to do with the psvr headset itself. I had no interest in VR and i'm just now starting to look into it and if I had the money to buy whatever headset I want I dunno if it would be psvr just because I want a high end experience and I equate that to nice looking and running games which the other headsets being used on pc can do.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Don't get it twisted.
The display is also a custom RGB OLED with 3 sub pixels per pixel, versus the pentile in Oculus, and people assume in Vive. So it effectively may not be 'cheaper' in general, but worth it for Sony to do with their cost equation and relationships.
Agree on the rest.
Dusktildawn48
Member
How come the release date for vive is April 5th but the order page says may? Is that just my estimated shipping? It specifically says it'll start shipping in may.
kungfuian
Member
I'd love to hear some anecdotal feedback from anyone who's tried all three. If the price gap is significant, which we expect it to be, then the Vive and Oculus should be significantly better than the PSVR.
If the difference is night and day then the money might be worth it. But if the difference is negligible then PSVR has my money.
If the difference is night and day then the money might be worth it. But if the difference is negligible then PSVR has my money.
Lemonte
Member
April batch is already sold out.
Lion Heart
Banned
Cool thread. If I do jump on board it will be with PSVR due to the cost of entry and me owning a PS4 already but I'm very much in the "interested but wait and see approach".
Its definitely exciting. I can only imagine how immersed I'd be in a proper open world RPG with this thing.
Its definitely exciting. I can only imagine how immersed I'd be in a proper open world RPG with this thing.
I'm curious as well as I haven't tried Oculus CV1, but I can't imagine visually they will be much different. It's going to be about the exclusive titles and the different types of games you are going to be playing with a controller versus room scale with wands. These are very different types of games. Both valid though one brings in really new possibilities.
piratepwnsninja
Member
I found this to be a pretty good comparison of two of the three (Vive and Rift). Great read if you haven't seen it yet. Hopefully we'll get goid PSVR info the week.
https://reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/49ku1u/detailed_experience_a_lot_of_hours_with_both/
A comparison of all VR headsets from a dev working on all with multiple releases:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EMcN..._Hardware_The_ConvenienceQuality_Spectrum.php
This is from September before Rift price were largely assumed to be $399 so a little bit outdated but still a pointer.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EMcN..._Hardware_The_ConvenienceQuality_Spectrum.php
This is from September before Rift price were largely assumed to be $399 so a little bit outdated but still a pointer.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
A comparison of all VR headsets from a dev working on all with multiple releases:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EMcN..._Hardware_The_ConvenienceQuality_Spectrum.php
This is from September before Rift price was largely assumed to be $399 so a little bit outdated but still a pointer.
Thats very outdated. HTC vive pre and the entire chapalone system havent been announced yet, and DK2 is 2 years old in a couple of months.
Its time we ditch that article imo.
serversurfer
Member
Hey, Cartman, Sangetsu-II made a really nice list of PSVR titles. I'm not sure if it's quite current, but there's a ton of stuff in there.
I have a fairly distinct memory of Marks bragging that when doing asymmetric social screen in PlayRoom VR, the PS4 was rendering a 1080p120 feed for the VR user, plus a separate 1080p30 for the four users playing against them on the TV. Fuck if I can find it though. ><
Yup. For example, the player wearing the headset can be Tony Stark, and their buddy who grabs a DS4 can operate the JARVIS interface that's displayed on the TV, feeding information to Iron Man via the Camera's mics, hacking computers, and otherwise assisting the Iron Man player.
PSVR has the highest frame rate and sub-pixel resolution of the three.
Out of curiosity, why do you consider Rift superior to Vive? I thought they were more or less the same, but Vive adds the visor-cam. What's Rift got?
I think it's been confirmed by everyone at MM except the guy actually making the engine. lol
Is it the same (pre-warp) side-by-side view being sent to the headset, or do they stretch and crop one eye to fill the monitor? PSVR does the latter, which is a little more normal-friendly you thought folks complained about letter-boxing though it does reduce their vertical FoV. They're just onlookers though. /shrug
I'm fairly certain that's just for the mirror mode. It starts with the left-eye image which is only half-res to begin with before flattening, and it needs to be cropped from 8:9 to 16:9, losing even more information. They may even end up with something a bit worse than 720p.
I have a fairly distinct memory of Marks bragging that when doing asymmetric social screen in PlayRoom VR, the PS4 was rendering a 1080p120 feed for the VR user, plus a separate 1080p30 for the four users playing against them on the TV. Fuck if I can find it though. ><
Correct
Pretty sure that was actually the main point of the breakout box, actually.
"Skimming." <3
PSVR has a 3.5mm headphone jack in the headset, just like the Vive. Been there since it was revealed, since it's vital to their positional audio. They considered using integrated headphones, but users' ear locations varied too much for that to be a good solution.
Sure, and you can easily use wands while seated. Physically walking around is really the important distinction here, because it puts PCVR in a class by itself, conveniently above typical concerns like frame rate and resolution.
I imagine you'd want to use something like that while safely nestled in a recliner with your DS4 anyway.
In addition to being full RGB as mentioned, PSVR is also 120 Hz versus 90 Hz on PCVR.
PSVR uses precisely the same tracking system as Rift, though the tracking on PSVR is a little more robust because of the color of the markers they use. However, PSVR is unlikely to ever support the use of additional cameras, though it certainly could. Though if you want to get technical, PSVR is already a stereo-camera setup, which helps z accuracy and improves field of view a bit, but doesn't do much to reduce occlusion because they have roughly the same spacing as your eyes. The PSVR wands are generally difficult to occlude for long though, and precise tracking is mostly important for the headset, which has LEDs all around. The primary occlusion concern with PSVR will be wandering out of the camera's field of view, but the system warns the player when they start straying out of range.
Sony have indicated they'll be pricing it like a console, so yes, at cost, just like the Rift. In theory they could sell it for below cost, but I don't think they really will, unless it's just to round down to a nicer MSRP. (i.e. $$323 -> $299, etc.)
The Oculus image they output now is usually a 16:9 image. Not sure exactly what they are doing. The Vive has a mirror mode toggle to output the two eyes at the same time, only the left, or only the right. Most games that i've played do their own output as well which is a 16:9 image. Fantastic Contraption is rendering the game again actually where you can see the level from different angles or from the players eyes.
PCVR?Sure, and you can easily use wands while seated. Physically walking around is really the important distinction here, because it puts PCVR in a class by itself, conveniently above typical concerns like frame rate and resolution.
lmimmfn
Member
How is the tracking in PSVR more robust than Oculus tracking? And what does the colour have to do with anything? Not being agro I'm just curious why youre saying that
supposedly more comfortable to wear and with clearer optics - less screen door and larger sweet spot. i've seen a couple of vive videos where the user has red marks on the forehead and under the eyes, which could suggest it puts pressure on the front of the face or is front heavy
i think if it was a headset only comparison, you'd have a lot fewer people on the fence and considering both. its the vive lighthouse and motion controllers that are the big difference
I've got couple of questions for those of you who tried VR prototypes already:
1. Sony boasted the ability to use glasses with PSVR. Am I right assuming that this is needed for far-sighted folk? I mean, physical screens should be close enough for most of the near-sighted people, right?
2. How much of the effect is ruined if user is one-eyed? If someone can just close his/her eye during VR experience and describe the loss (or not) of the effect, I would appreciate it very much.
Thanks!
1. Sony boasted the ability to use glasses with PSVR. Am I right assuming that this is needed for far-sighted folk? I mean, physical screens should be close enough for most of the near-sighted people, right?
2. How much of the effect is ruined if user is one-eyed? If someone can just close his/her eye during VR experience and describe the loss (or not) of the effect, I would appreciate it very much.
Thanks!
I don't remember where I read this but, IIRC, number of markers being equal, big colored ones are better than small LEDs. For the latter to provide tracking quality on par with the former, there needs to be more of them.
Guess this is why PSVR has less markers than the Rift.
cheezcake
Member
The reason PS uses big colored trackers is because PS camera is a normal camera, i.e. standard sensor with IR block filter, because they wanted those sorts of mixed reality games with PS camera. You cant use infrared LEDs because the camera can't pick them up well, so they have to use light in the visible spectrum which the camera is obviously sensitive to. The reason they are big is because tracking visible light is harder than tracking relatively moderate brightness IR LEDs because in most situations there will be a lot more issues with competing visible light in your room than infrared. Making it bigger let's them identify the markers easier. The Rift doesn't need to sense visible light so they use a sensor with a visible light filter but let's IR pass through. If anything I would say the Rift tracking systen a bit more robust, though both should be adequate. Vive has the best solution.
Well, galvanic vestibular stimulation is not a new concept, the real question is whether they'll be able to make it into a product any time soon.
Well, but there are more of them. A lot more. I don't really see any reason to suspect that PSVR tracking is any better than Oculus tracking. I'd especially not use the word "robust" given that visible-spectrum tracking is inherently affected by outside conditions.
while we are talking about tracking - why do they need to figure out orientation via the lighthouse/camera? isnt it only the accelerometers that drift, not the gyros? so they would only need to see where in space the headset was, yet they have these constellation arrangements to allow them to calculate orientation too.
Miracle Chosuke
Neo Member
I thought this would be the case too. I'm nearsighted, but when I tried the DK2 without glasses it was blurry. Thanks to the lenses you're not actually focusing a couple of inches in front of your face, you're "looking through" the screen, focusing at around 1,5 meters away.
Wow, I'm really curious about this. I don't like the exclusivity thing even when it's done by HTC, but maybe it's rather linked to the lack of Touch at Rift launch and will come with that on Rift too. Did nobody mirror that trailer?
RGB subpixel for every pixel is hardly "custom".
artsi
Member
Yeah, obviously it's not ready for consumer usage just like that, but it's still exciting that companies are doing this kind of extensive VR research.
Eventually there should be breakthroughs and sooner or later have them drip to the consumer level too.
Miracle Chosuke
Neo Member
What makes me think the PSVR screen isn't just a regular 1080p screen is the presentation from Unite 2015, where the guy was talking about the PSVR screen having smaller pixels in the middle and larger pixels towards the edges of the screen. That seems pretty custom and maybe more costly to produce?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RNbZpcfAhE
Around the 15:30 mark
Huh. I never really thought about that. I figured it was just convenient for aesthetic purposes and to change color for different lighting conditions like the move
PuppetMaster
Member
Pretty sure he is not talking physical pixels.
I took it as higher quality subpixels.
I don't think that's physical pixels but rendered pixels. Sony have a patented-method for variable resolution across the image. This is to adjust for the rendered image lense correction that is applied after the rendering takes place. By applyng variable resolution across the image you make sure the software rendered image resolution and the physical pixel resolution match close to 1:1.
A similar method is being introduced by Nvidia on the PC side and their Gameworks VR stack called Multi-Res-Shading.
It saves upwards of 50% of the rendering performance so it's a pretty big deal.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Just spoke to HTC and they confirmed the Vive ships with 2 mounting kits for the Lighthouses.
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
it might be exclusive initially due to using room scaling and touch controls
the ILMX video from last year looked that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T9Dv1aLMbw
Miracle Chosuke
Neo Member
But Job Simulator has two versions
1. Vive. With full 360º enviroments
2. Oculus - PSVR with limited 180º enviroments
So, it's really not the same game.
http://vrfocus.com/archives/28019/job-simulator-on-psvroculus-to-feature-180-degree-environments/
plagiarize
Banned
Great job reading.
It's an option in the game. Not two different versions of the game. The 180 versions will be an option if you're using the Vive and the 360 ones will almost certainly be an option on the Oculus.
Is an option for PSVR too? Is it confirmed for Rift?
plagiarize
Banned
It is confirmed that the Vive version offers the 180 degree environments for people with less space. It's the same game.
I don't think so.
The limited version of the game is included for Vive.
The full 360 version only works on the Vive.
You can spin it again.
it's a FUNCTIONAL exclusive to Vive having 360 degree version.
That will change when Oculus supports room scale, as everybody is pretty well certain it will
plagiarize
Banned
Do I need to quote the developers calling it a toggleable option they will almost definitely offer for the Oculus again?
Or perhaps the developer referring to them as two different modes?
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/com...r_dev_says_that_their_plans_for_touch/cz2ucy5
Don't get so hung up on the specifics of one single game.
I know it. He said all three can bring the same gaming experience but tech differences are what bring gameplay differences.
Previewers agree the most fun games are those with real 360 degrees gameplay like Budget Cuts or Hover Junkers. Both share gameplay that is not possible in PSVR (or Rift before Touch lauch).