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The Hobbit - Official Thread of Officially In Production

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Loxley

Member
I find that Fellowship definitely is the best for repeated viewings, it's probably my single-most watched film ever. The Two Towers, while certainly a very good film, when sandwiched between the epic, dramatic finale that Return of the King gave us and the near-perfection of Fellowship, it's flaws are more readily apparent. But it's certainly far from a bad film, let's not get crazy here. I think the only thing for me about The Two Towers that bugs me is that, of the three films, The Two Tower's CGI has aged the worst (those wargs...) that's about it though.

But yeah, that scene from the EE of The Two Towers with Boromir and Faramir in Osgiliath was great...it did a lot to show that Boromir wasn't just some asshole and how much of an effect the Ring really did have on him. It's a real shame they had to cut that, it ended up being one of my favorite scenes out of the trilogy :(
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
I find that Fellowship definitely is the best for repeated viewings, it's probably my single-most watched film ever. The Two Towers, while certainly a very good film, when sandwiched between the epic, dramatic finale that Return of the King gave us and the near-perfection of Fellowship, it's flaws are more readily apparent. But it's certainly far from a bad film, let's not get crazy here. I think the only thing for me about The Two Towers that bugs me is that, of the three films, The Two Tower's CGI has aged the worst (those wargs...) that's about it though.
The whole Warg battle and the 'Is Aragorn dead?' subplot could be purged from both versions of the film and it really wouldn't have a detrimental effect on the narrative.
 

ascii42

Member
Edmond Dantès;36809669 said:
The whole Warg battle and the 'Is Aragorn dead?' subplot could be purged from both versions of the film and it really wouldn't have a detrimental effect on the narrative.
Yeah, the only thing I suppose it added was it gave Aragorn the opportunity to see the Orc army before reaching Helm's Deep. Not sure that was necessary either.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Yeah, the only thing I suppose it added was it gave Aragorn the opportunity to see the Orc army before reaching Helm's Deep. Not sure that was necessary either.
Yes, it really was one of those occasions where Peter and co couldn't improve upon Tolkien's narrative.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
On the subject of the Fellowship. Does anyone else have an issue with Sauron's defeat in the prologue?

In the book he has a long protracted battle with Gil-galad and Elendil atop of the slopes of Mount Doom during the final stages of the Battle of Dagorlad, where he eventually slays them both. It's one of the few times where he actually triumphs over another being in combat. This small victory over a great king of men and lord of elves was at a great cost though as evidenced by this passage in the appendices "Sauron was overthrown by Elendil and Gil-galad". Isildur cut the Ring of an already weakened Sauron as he fell from the slopes of Mount Doom.

In the film Isildur just happens to cut the One Ring off of Sauron's hand by an utter fluke and it just makes Sauron seem like an utter fool. You corner an animal in that kind of condition and you expect a nasty sting in return and yet he still reaches for him in such a nonchalant manner. Also, the fact that Elendil was brushed off like a small child rather than the great warrior that he was and the omission of Gil-galad's death at the hands of Sauron (Gil-gilad spearing Sauron with Aiglos and Sauron retaliating by burning him to death) was also unfortunate.

I know which version I prefer.
 
I have massive issues with the way Sauron was handled in general.

The fact that they originally planned for a 1v1 Aragorn vs Sauron physical battle tells me that they needed him to be a physical threat. Having the correct sequence of events in place with regards to Sauron's loss of The One Ring would have got over that problem, I feel. I also think having Elendil be a bit more noble/composed would have stengthened Aragorn's bloodline in the eyes of the audience without him having to resort to the additional heroics seen in the film. The lead up to, and the actual demise of Sauron's physical film could have been a truly iconic piece of film. The Choreography alone would have been astonishing given the pedigree of the people involved.

Quite a lot of characters suffered changes though. Denethor and Faramir notably. I suppose a lot of 'men' got changed in a more negative manner to heighten Aragorn's greatness in the eyes of the audience.
 

bengraven

Member
Agree that Two Towers was the lesser film. We don't need to establish that Aragorn is the hero of the film. Just show a few more scenes of his rescuing a hobbit or something instead of the warg scene.
 

mrkgoo

Member
I just wish they revealed more about denethor and his palantir. I loved the idea that Sauron used it to drive him mad with the loss of hope.
 
Edmond Dantès;36820119 said:
On the subject of the Fellowship. Does anyone else have an issue with Sauron's defeat in the prologue?

In the book he has a long protracted battle with Gil-galad and Elendil atop of the slopes of Mount Doom during the final stages of the Battle of Dagorlad, where he eventually slays them both. It's one of the few times where he actually triumphs over another being in combat. This small victory over a great king of men and lord of elves was at a great cost though as evidenced by this passage in the appendices "Sauron was overthrown by Elendil and Gil-galad". Isildur cut the Ring of an already weakened Sauron as he fell from the slopes of Mount Doom.

In the film Isildur just happens to cut the One Ring off of Sauron's hand by an utter fluke and it just makes Sauron seem like an utter fool. You corner an animal in that kind of condition and you expect a nasty sting in return and yet he still reaches for him in such a nonchalant manner. Also, the fact that Elendil was brushed off like a small child rather than the great warrior that he was and the omission of Gil-galad's death at the hands of Sauron (Gil-gilad spearing Sauron with Aiglos and Sauron retaliating by burning him to death) was also unfortunate.

I know which version I prefer.

They had to make cuts and not confuse people with too many characters. You yourself are condensing things to focus on what you like. The Battle of Dagorlad was only the first part of the War of the Last Alliance and you failed to mention that the siege of Barad-dur took 7 years and Elendil's other son Anarion was killed in that time. That part in the appendices only says something like "the Last Alliance that was made against him overthrew Sauron and the One Ring was taken from him. So ended the Second Age". Elrond has a longer account in the Council chapter in FOTR: "Sauron himself was overthrown, and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand....and took it for his own" Are you saying Isildur cut the ring off of Sauron while he was literally falling off of a mountain? (lol). Not to mention that Sauron had defeated or fought to a draw elves that had been to Aman, so even Gil-galad or especially Elendil didn't really have a chance. The movie did as good a job as it could to focus on the real message which you seem to be missing, that they sacrificed themselves to end Sauron but the one ring survived, through a combination of greed and the ring's power.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
They had to make cuts and not confuse people with too many characters. You yourself are condensing things to focus on what you like. The Battle of Dagorlad was only the first part of the War of the Last Alliance and you failed to mention that the siege of Barad-dur took 7 years and Elendil's other son Anarion was killed in that time. That part in the appendices only says something like "the Last Alliance that was made against him overthrew Sauron and the One Ring was taken from him. So ended the Second Age". Elrond has a longer account in the Council chapter in FOTR: "Sauron himself was overthrown, and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand....and took it for his own" Are you saying Isildur cut the ring off of Sauron while he was literally falling off of a mountain? (lol). Not to mention that Sauron had defeated or fought to a draw elves that had been to Aman, so even Gil-galad or especially Elendil didn't really have a chance. The movie did as good a job as it could to focus on the real message which you seem to be missing, that they sacrificed themselves to end Sauron but the one ring survived, through a combination of greed and the ring's power.
No, Sauron had fallen from the slopes of Mount Doom and was in a vulnerable position which allowed Isildur to cut the Ring from his hand and put an end to another one of Sauron's physical embodiments.

And I certainly think Elendil and Gil-galad could hold their own considering this particular quote from Elrond:
"I was at the Battle of Dagorlad before the Black Gate of Mordor, we here we had the mastery: for the spear of Gil-galad and the Sword fo Elendil, Aiglos and Narsil, none could withstand. I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; but Sauron himself was overthrown, and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand with the hilt-shard of his father's sword, and took it for his own."
 
Edmond Dantès;36823718 said:
No, Sauron had fallen from the slopes of Mount Doom and was in a vulnerable position which allowed Isildur to cut the Ring from his hand and put an end to another one of Sauron's physical embodiments.

And I certainly think Elendil and Gil-galad could hold their own considering this particular quote from Elrond:


Thanks for using the quote I used in my post, reading comprehension FTL. Just to be sure, you are saying that "overthrown" means Sauron was flying off of a mountain and Isildur Fus Ro Dah'd Sauron while in mid-air and caught the ring?
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Thanks for using the quote I used in my post, reading comprehension FTL. Just to be sure, you are saying that "overthrown" means Sauron was flying off of a mountain and Isildur Fus Ro Dah'd Sauron while in mid-air and caught the ring?
Sauron was obviously on the ground in a vulnerable state when Isildur approached and cut the ring from him.

The Silmarillion also makes it clear that he fell on to lower ground before Isildur;
Sauron himself came forth; and he wrestled with Gil-galad and Elendil. and they both were slain, and the sword of Elendil broke under him as he fell. But Sauron also was thrown down, and with the hilt-shard of Narsil Isildur cut the Ruling Ring from the hand of Sauron and took it for his own.
The Unfinished Tales also states that Isildur did indeed cut the Ring off of Sauron's hand after he was greatly weakened.
 

JB1981

Member
I think the EE of RotK is definitely better.

As for FotR, I think the EE ruins the introduction to the shire (which is a lot of added nonsense), but that once they leave the Shire, every added scene adds a lot to the film. The background stuff for Boromir and his interactions with Aragorn in Galadriel's domain especially. Also stuff like Sam and Frodo seeing the Elves leaving Middle Earth are really, really nice scenes.

But yes, the EE of FotR butchers the opening of the film by adding something like fifteen minutes of nonsense.

For sure. Plus the gift giving scene is my favorite addition to FOTR EE. "Ah she is fairest. Let nothing else be fair unless it be her gift to me."

ROTK EE is MUCH better and so is TTT. Boromir @ Osgiliath!
 

pringles

Member
Extended Two Towers is my favorite movie of the trilogy. Theoden, Wormtongue, Faramir, Eowyn.. so many great characters and scenes. I even like the Ents, and their march at the end is EPIC. Yeah the Warg battle isn't the best moment of the trilogy but I have no problem with Aragorn's fall and presumed death. His return is bad-ass.

On the topic of the LOTR trilogy, I overheard a funny thing a while ago.
I was sitting in a cafe and some loud teens were in the table just behind me, maybe 16-17 years old. They were talking about movies and how they often make one movie and if that's succesful they'll make it into a trilogy. Then one guy matter of factly states "yeah that's why the first Lord Of The Rings movie looks so low-budget, they only got a bigger budget after it was succesful" or something to that affect.

So, Fellowship, a low-budget movie compared to TTT and RoTK? :lol
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Extended Two Towers is my favorite movie of the trilogy. Theoden, Wormtongue, Faramir, Eowyn.. so many great characters and scenes. I even like the Ents, and their march at the end is EPIC. Yeah the Warg battle isn't the best moment of the trilogy but I have no problem with Aragorn's fall and presumed death. His return is bad-ass.

On the topic of the LOTR trilogy, I overheard a funny thing a while ago.
I was sitting in a cafe and some loud teens were in the table just behind me, maybe 16-17 years old. They were talking about movies and how they often make one movie and if that's succesful they'll make it into a trilogy. Then one guy matter of factly states "yeah that's why the first Lord Of The Rings movie looks so low-budget, they only got a bigger budget after it was succesful" or something to that affect.

So, Fellowship, a low-budget movie compared to TTT and RoTK? :lol
The Two Towers certainly has the best opening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD73LFV0GbQ
 

JB1981

Member
I watched FOTR EE recently and I love the movie and think it's great but the sequels have really grown on me, particularly Return of the King. I love the setting of Minas Tirith, love the scenes between Faramir and Denethor. The battle of Pelennor Fields ia amazing. The special effects in the Oliphaunt sequences are AMAZING. Rohirrim riding between the legs of the Oliphaunts! Love the scene where Elrond gives Aragaon the blade of Anduril! Love the lighting of the beacons (wow). Absolutely love that they added back in the scene with Saruman at Isengard (can't BELIEVE they left this out of the theatrical cut). Love the addition of the Mouth of Sauron. Love the addition of Aragorn looking into theh Palantir.

Love the scene where Gandalf fends off the Nazgul in the open field (It's the white rider!). Yes, the movie is overlong and has too many endings but what is there is so good.
 

Dany

Banned
I was on the verge of falling asleep through TTT, gosh, it was late, maybe 9 when we saw it and damn...that middle act *snooooore*
 
I'm so disappointed I missed tickets to the special screening of FotR at the Sydney Opera House, and now I missed out on tickets to the TT (sold out in like an hour).

They play the Theatrical release of the movie on the big screen whilst a full orchestra and choir do the score...would have been amazing. :(
 
I'm so disappointed I missed tickets to the special screening of FotR at the Sydney Opera House, and now I missed out on tickets to the TT (sold out in like an hour).

They play the Theatrical release of the movie on the big screen whilst a full orchestra and choir do the score...would have been amazing. :(

WHAT THE FUCK? I didn't even know about it!
 

Amir0x

Banned
man can't wait for this movie anymore, taken to fondling my Lord of the Rings collection every night as some sort of sick geek ritual
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
man can't wait for this movie anymore, taken to fondling my Lord of the Rings collection every night as some sort of sick geek ritual
Same here, but I'm also savouring all the info that we're being given and knowing that the film is in production makes me feel all giddy inside because once shooting of the film ends and post-production is completed that's it. The films come out in back-to-back years and that may well be the last time our generation ventures into Middle-Earth and Arda. The Silmarillion seems unlikely in any form.

There is a possibility that The Lord of the Rings may be adapted for the big screen again decades from now and one can only imagine how that may turn out.

At least we'll have our collections and maybe an ultimate Blu-ray package with all five extended editions as well as complete recordings of all the scores and a whole boatload of extras.
 
Edmond Dantès;36878712 said:
At least we'll have our collections and maybe an ultimate Blu-ray package with all five extended editions as well as complete recordings of all the scores and a whole boatload of extras.


That sounds like the literal description of joy in physical form.

*faints because too much blood ran into head
 

Loxley

Member
Are you sure?

I think as long as Christopher Tolkien is the final yes-man for the rights to The Silmarillion, then yeah, it'll be a while. Given that he's 87, I wouldn't be surprised if he has very explicit wishes in his last will and testament with regards to the rights of The Silmarillion and the rest of his father's works. Tolkien practically gave away the film rights to The Lord of the Rings on a whim because he considered it to be "un-filmable", same goes for The Hobbit. But Chris Tolkien has pretty much been the steward for everything else, and (from what I understand) was never in love with the idea of other people adapting J.R.R.'s work into other forms of media.
 

Jokergrin

Member
I think as long as Christopher Tolkien is the final yes-man for the rights to The Silmarillion, then yeah, it'll be a while. Given that he's 87, I wouldn't be surprised if he has very explicit wishes in his last will and testament with regards to the rights of The Silmarillion and the rest of his father's works. Tolkien practically gave away the film rights to The Lord of the Rings on a whim because he considered it to be "un-filmable", same goes for The Hobbit. But Chris Tolkien has pretty been the steward for everything else, and (from what I understand) was never in love with the idea of other people adapting his J.R.R.'s work into other forms of media.

what an asshole
 

thefro

Member
I think as long as Christopher Tolkien is the final yes-man for the rights to The Silmarillion, then yeah, it'll be a while. Given that he's 87, I wouldn't be surprised if he has very explicit wishes in his last will and testament with regards to the rights of The Silmarillion and the rest of his father's works. Tolkien practically gave away the film rights to The Lord of the Rings on a whim because he considered it to be "un-filmable", same goes for The Hobbit. But Chris Tolkien has pretty been the steward for everything else, and (from what I understand) was never in love with the idea of other people adapting his J.R.R.'s work into other forms of media.

Unless they extend copyright protection again, a lot of Tolkien's work is going to fall into public domain within the next 20-30 years. So if they want the $$$ they'll have to make a deal.
 

Loxley

Member
what an asshole

I think it's understandable why he's so protective of it, since Tolkien used his kids as his primary critics while writing The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Chris Tolkien in particular has a very personal connection to The Lord of the Rings, as J.R.R. would send him copies of each chapter as they were being written while Chris was serving for the RAF in South Africa during WW2.

It's unfortunate that he's so steadfast in saying no to film adaptions of The Silmarillion, but considering his severe personal attachment to the source material, I can't say I completely blame him :/
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
I think it's understandable why he's so protective of it, since Tolkien used his kids as his primary critics while writing The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Chris Tolkien in particular has a very personal connection to The Lord of the Rings, as J.R.R. would send him copies of each chapter as they were being written while Chris was serving for the RAF in South Africa during WW2.

It's unfortunate that he's so steadfast in saying no to film adaptions of The Silmarillion, but considering his severe personal attachment to the source material, I can't say I completely blame him :/
Yes, I love the fact that Christopher was so involved in the evolution of The Lord of the Rings as well as a certain C.S Lewis who also read early drafts of the story and really encouraged the professor to carry on writing and to complete the story.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Harper Collins Publishers to Publish Official Tie-ins to The Hobbit films
Harper Collins Publishers has acquired exclusive worldwide publishing rights from Warner Bros. Consumer Products for tie-in books to the two highly anticipated films The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey and The Hobbit: There and Back Again, directed by Peter Jackson and productions of New Line Cinema and MGM.

Inspired by the two films based on The Hobbit, the HarperCollins companion books are a fantastic way for fans of the world of Middle-earth to immerse themselves in the film experience, said Karen McTier, Executive Vice President of Domestic Licensing and Worldwide Marketing for Warner Bros. Consumer Products. HarperCollins has a strong history with the works of J.R.R. Tolkien, and we know that the detailed tie-in books will bring The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey and The Hobbit: There and Back Again to life in an in-depth and imaginative way.

Victoria Barnsley, CEO and Publisher of HarperCollins UK and International, said, The books by J.R.R. Tolkien are exceptional in their quality and their popularity, as are the films that they have inspired, and The Hobbit is the story that started it all three-quarters of a century ago. I am a huge admirer of the legacy of these stories and my own arrival at HarperCollins coincided with the work on The Lord of the Rings tie-ins, so I am especially excited to be returning to this unique publishing phenomenon.

The Hobbit, first published by George Allen & Unwin in 1937, has been a perennial bestseller since starting life with a very modest 1,500-copy print run. Since then, it has gone on to sell many millions of copies in more than 50 languages, and in this 75th anniversary year of its publication, is set to captivate another generation of readers. HarperCollins acquired the publishing rights to The Hobbit and its sequel The Lord of the Rings when it bought Unwin Hyman publishers in 1990, revitalizing the books™ sales and steering their publishing and book licensing through the unprecedented heights of The Lord of the Rings film trilogy in 2001-2003.

Chris Smith, Editorial Director for Tolkien at HarperCollins, said, We are delighted to have been able to pull together many of the same experts to work on these books, as well as new talents to update the publishing mix.

Author, biographer and broadcaster Brian Sibley, who recently won the BBC Audio Drama Award for his dramatization of The History of Titus Groan, has returned to New Zealand to write the behind-the-scenes Official Movie Guides, while novelist and former Tolkien editor Jane Johnson is writing essential Visual Companions to introduce filmgoers to the remarkable world of the two films, The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey and The Hobbit: There and Back Again. Bestselling New Zealand author and photographer Ian Brodie is writing the Location Guide which highlights the spectacular locations in New Zealand that have provided the settings for the films. In addition, HarperCollins will be breaking new ground with a range of childrens books in the form of annuals, movie storybooks and feature titles, as well as a new series of lavish hardbacks written and designed by the award-winning team at Weta, who are working closely with the production team to guarantee that these books will be bursting with insider information and stunning visual imagery.

David Brawn, Publisher of Estates at HarperCollins, said, We are thrilled to be working again on film tie-in publishing for what we know will be a pair of remarkable films. The Lord of the Rings books sold 25 million copies worldwide during the films and I know we are in for similar levels of excitement with The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey and The Hobbit: There and Back Again. At the heart of all this is the novel by J.R.R. Tolkien, which will be available in a range of print and digital formats to suit fans of all ages. I have no doubt that these films will leave filmgoers wanting to read or re-read The Hobbit and be enchanted by the phenomenal storytelling of one of the world’s most popular and inventive authors.
Source

In summary:

Official Movie Guides - To be written by award-winning author, biographer, and broadcaster, Brian Sibley.

Visual Companions - To be written by novelist and former Tolkien editor, Jane Johnson.

Location Guides - Created by bestselling New Zealand author and photographer, Ian Brodie.

Children's Books - A range of annuals, movie storybooks and feature titles.

New Hardcovers - A new series of lavish hardbacks written and designed by the award-winning team at Weta.
 

raphier

Banned
I'm confused. Original storyline tie-ins or what exactly?


Edmond Dantès;36927996 said:
These kinds of tie-ins; official movie guides, visual companions, location guides, children's books and new hardcovers.

I presume the hardbacks of The Hobbit will have film related covers or artwork created for the two films.
oh, it reads in there so. I'm so tired. It's 3.33 here. I better bail.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
I'm confused. Original storyline tie-ins or what kind of tie-ins?

These kinds of tie-ins; official movie guides, visual companions, location guides, children's books and new hardcovers.

I presume the hardbacks of The Hobbit will have film related covers or artwork created for the two films.
 

Loxley

Member
Edmond Dantès;36927632 said:
Harper Collins Publishers to Publish Official Tie-ins to The Hobbit films

Source

In summary:

Official Movie Guides - To be written by award-winning author, biographer, and broadcaster, Brian Sibley.

Visual Companions - To be written by novelist and former Tolkien editor, Jane Johnson.

Location Guides - Created by bestselling New Zealand author and photographer, Ian Brodie.

Children's Books - A range of annuals, movie storybooks and feature titles.

New Hardcovers - A new series of lavish hardbacks written and designed by the award-winning team at Weta.

O.O

I will buy all of these.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
O.O

I will buy all of these.

The Hobbit Facsimile First Edition is also coming out soon featuring Tolkien's original vision of the 'Riddles in the Dark' chapter, just in time for the films.

Hobbit.jpg



And Amazon have this package up for pre-order

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007440839/
This sumptuous gift set contains a replica of the very rare first edition of The Hobbit, plus a book about the books’s publication history and a CD of previously unreleased archive recordings featuring J.R.R. Tolkien reading from his book.

The Hobbit was published on 21 September 1937 with a print run of 1,500 copies. With a beautiful cover design by the author and a coloured frontispiece painting, the book proved to be popular and was reprinted within three months, and history was already being made.

The scarcity of the first edition has resulted in copies commanding huge prices, way beyond the reach of most Tolkien fans. In addition, subsequent changes to the text - particularly those to chapter five when Tolkien decided to expand the text to marry it up to events in The Lord of the Rings - mean that the opportunity to read the book in its original form and format has become quite difficult.

To commemorate the 75th anniversary of publication, this special edition reprints the first edition, so that Tolkien’s book may be enjoyed in its original form. Included in the box is a CD deaturing recordings of Tolkien reading extracts from the book, including more than half an hour of archive recordings only recently discovered and never before released. In addition, a full colour booklet traces the origins of The Hobbit and its publication history, complete with a gallery of artwork and covers for this remarkable book.
 
I just watched Fellowship EE again. I think it shall soon go beyond being my favourite movie of that decade and simply become my favourite movie.

And the tower guard shall take up the call 'The lords of Gondor have returned.'
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Fellowship's prologue beginning is one of my top cinema moments.
 

Esiquio

Member
Fellowship's prologue beginning is one of my top cinema moments.

Agreed, it does an amazing job summarizing a lot of back-story. That, and the beginning of Fellowship with Gandalf coming into The Shire and "Concerning Hobbits" playing, man, that just chokes me up every time. Done just so perfectly.
 
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