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[Pimpbaa]

I'm honestly surprised they have the joke of a core system. The system SHOULD have a wireless controller and the HDD standard (which could be removed later). Will the core system even be backwards compatible if you don't buy the HDD??

Why should they have a wireless controller and HDD standard (for 299)? So they can lose just as much money next gen again? It was a mistake for them to include it for the xbox 1, because it added so much to the cost of the system. How exactly is the core system any different from say the ps2 launch? PS2 had no wireless controller or harddrive, and you had to buy a mem card.

 

[Particle Physicist]

sure. 299 is a decent price for a new system.. but when i want to add a harddrive later on for the extra functionalities, the ability to play MMOs and my back catalogue of games.. im going to be raped by the price.. oh, but then im going to want to get the headset for live.. and the wifi usb nub thing (my router is on a different floor than my tv). and then extra controllers (at least one) for multiplayer games.. $50 for a damn controller??

im not happy at all.



edit


i forgot that im going to have to also continue to pay to play my games online.. $50 for live was fine this gen, but MS has really taken the micro-transactions ideology too far on the 360.

 

[Pimpbaa]

sure. 299 is a decent price for a new system.. but when i want to add a harddrive later on for the extra functionalities, the ability to play MMOs and my back catalogue of games.. im going to be raped by the price.. oh, but then im going to want to get the headset for live.. and the wifi usb nub thing (my router is on a different floor than my tv). and then extra controllers (at least one) for multiplayer games.. $50 for a damn controller??

im not happy at all.

Yeah because you didn't have to buy such accesories before.

 

[IJoel]

A lot of 'hate' if you want to call it that is probably coming from the fact that HDD is not included with every SKU, thus not required for game development. Pretty much the same reason people ragged on PS3 to no end. I think the games will end up supporting HDD for caching and such, though. Just use it if it's there and don't use it if it isn't. Kinda like Amiga games handled memory expansions, or N64 games with the memory pack.

Exactly. I actually find the price for the Premium package to be reasonable, as it will include a remote controller and wireless headset (both things can probably be bought for $50 or so,) so it's not that far fetched. The big issue I have is that with 512 MB of RAM to fill, and no incentive for developers to take advantage of the hard disk, the load times will be significantly higher than on Xbox (which with the HDD they weren't that great, but better than the PS2.) This is also not considering the big impact this would have on MMORPG userbase propagation on the console. It just adds another barrier for that potential userbase.

... and the prices for the peripherals are ridiculous. $99 for a wifi adapter? $99 for a 20GB HD? $50 for a wireless controller? WTFBBQ!?

 

[PhatSaqs]

But, some Xbox fans are really singing a different tune when for the past three weeks they've denied the possibility, even as it became obvious, and hid behind vague comments from Microsoft. They attacked anybody who called it a possibility, went on and on and on about how the HDD was absolutely critical and all of a sudden now, it's not such a big deal.

I agree but it goes both ways. There were Sony fans who said "no big deal" to Sony not going with a HDD standard but yet are saying "NO HDD StANDARD!!? I WONT BUY!!!" now to the X360.

Either way, devs like Webzen and Square cant be smiling about it.

 

[Scotch]

The price for the premium package is pretty decent I think. You can't expect consoles to launch at $299 forever. This isn't 1995 anymore.

The only thing that is dissappointing is the fact that the HDD is optional, but we already knew that before today, so I don't understand all the fuss on GAF.

 

[urk]

Choices

 

[Kabuki Waq]

OT: how many controller ports does the 360 have? I never really noticed but IGN say 3!! wtf? xbox1 had 4! ??

 

[sonycowboy]

... and the prices for the peripherals are ridiculous. $99 for a wifi adapter? $99 for a 20GB HD? $50 for a wireless controller? WTFBBQ!?

With those prices, it's almost like Microsoft is DARING the consumer to not buy the core system. "You can't be that stupid, can you". You're getting like $180 worth of accessories for a $100 premium. And given that hardcore buy the system at launch, the majority will want the HDD, the HD cables, the wireless controller, & the headset.

 

[Crowza]

I just hate the fact that they took a couple games from me at launch.

I also dont like it that the HDD is being seen as an option but I understand why they went that route.

What games got taken away? All I've seen is stuff about the price.

 

[Nerevar]

You realize he's right.. right?

Of course it's a better "value" under the current pricing set up. But it's only a better "value" because you're getting reamed on the optional accessory pricing. As someone pointed out in the other thread, it's like saying "wow, it's a great value to buy this box of corn flakes for $5.00 rather than paying $2.00 for every individual corn flake like Kellogg is selling them for!"

 

[sangreal]

If they wanted me to perceive the $399 package as a value, perhaps they shouldn't have promised the features as standard in the first place (and no, I'm not talking about the drive).

Todd Holmdahl: Out of the box (North America), we will support component video (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) and composite video (all worldwide variations). Aftermarket AV cables will add support for S-video, enhanced SCART RGB, and VGA.

TH: With the Xbox 360 you'll be able to connect to composite or component out of the box. There will be other things that we support like VGA.

Bach: Well, predominantly, because the base SKU we’re shipping here is going to be wireless, and if you want to have 4 players, people will be able to get splitters, just like you can on a PS2 and play 4 players. It is just one of those things where you have to decide what you’re going to optimize for, and for us, we think wireless… there will still be people who will want to use wired, which is why we’ll supply one, but we think wireless is going to be the direction of the future.

 

[AniHawk]

Yeah because you didn't have to buy such accesories before.

Well not with Microsoft, at least for that hard drive part.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Yeah because you didn't have to buy such accesories before.

no i didnt. the harddrive came with the xbox.. the controllers sure as hell didnt cost 50 bucks. the headset came with live.. the only accessory i would have needed before is the wifi adapter.. oh yeah. and these accessories were/are much cheaper this gen.

3rd party accessories are also likely to cost much more than this gen since MS is now asking for royalties

 

[PhatSaqs]

What games got taken away? All I've seen is stuff about the price.

I mean they took games away by going with the 399 price. That's possibly 2 more games I could have had @ launch

 

[sonycowboy]

If they wanted me to perceive the $399 package as a value, perhaps they shouldn't have promised the features as standard in the first place (and no, I'm not talking about the drive).

Yeah, many of those comments are absolutely definative. So the question must be asked:

The CPU & GPU were finished last year and they must have known approximate costs, they bumped up the RAM, but other than that, what's changed to have them do a complete 180 on their plans?

Go to multiple skus
Drop the HDD
Drop the wireless controllers
Drop the HD AV cables.

Did Sony's continuous singing of a high price (combined w/ inside knowledge that confirmed it??) have an effect? This certainly doesn't seem to have been their plan all along.

 

[cyberheater]

MS can't win can they.

The wanted to give folks a choice.

399 for the uber bundle is a great price.

299 for folks that don't want the rest of the kit is deemed a rip off.

 

[shuri]

How many of those new-found propective x360 owners that are pissed about the optional wireless adapter are xbox live subscribers right now? Or were planning to be?

 

[IJoel]

What's funny is that MS is including an ethernet cable with the PREMIUM pack.

WOO! No $100 wireless adapter, but WE'LL INCLUDE A VALUABLE CABLE FREE OF CHARGE! And they're not even including such cable in the core package. Of course, MS, making sense as always, didn't include said cable in the core package, but mention Xbox Live Silver as included.

 

[Particle Physicist]

MS can't win can they.

The wanted to give folks a choice.

399 for the uber bundle is a great price.

299 for folks that don't want the rest of the kit is deemed a rip off.

thats because MS is pricing the accessories at incredibly inflated prices.

How many of those new-found propective x360 owners that are pissed about the optional wireless adapter are xbox live subscribers right now? Or were planning to be?

the wireless adapter was always optional. im pissed about the price.

 

[JMPovoa]

I think that the prices are right. The games will run the same way (sans HD) so joy is assured.

 

[dorio]

Take out the headset and remote and charge $360 (one SKU). That would've been great.

Exactly.

 

[sonycowboy]

MS can't win can they.

The wanted to give folks a choice.

399 for the uber bundle is a great price.

299 for folks that don't want the rest of the kit is deemed a rip off.

I love how what people thought was essentially the standard config just days ago, is now an "UBER" bundle. Making the accessories ridiculously high priced doesn't change that fact.

But, they're going to sell out regardless and will most likely drop their price if it becomes any sort of barrier to consumer adoption and in the meantime have cleared $100's of millions of dollars extra at the higher price. ( $100*3M units = $300M )

 

[Nerevar]

MS can't win can they.

The wanted to give folks a choice.

399 for the uber bundle is a great price.

299 for folks that don't want the rest of the kit is deemed a rip off.

People are pissed because MS isn't delivering on what they promised on. Period, end of discussion, whatever.

 

[PhatSaqs]

the wireless adapter was always optional. im pissed about the price.

Why? That's the standard price of a console Wi-fi adapter.

 

[human5892]

But, they're going to sell out regardless and will most likely drop their price if it becomes any sort of barrier to consumer adoption and in the meantime have cleared $100's of millions of dollars extra at the higher price. ( $100*3M units = $300M )

That reminds me: have there been any kind of estimates as to how much the Xbox 360 will cost per unit to produce?

 

[VerTiGo]

Why? That's the standard price of a console Wi-fi adapter.

Kinda sucks since both the Revolution and PS3 have it built in though doesn't it?

 

[cyberheater]

Ok. I do agree that they should have kept the HD in for all SKU's.

But surely the cheaper the base unit is the bigger the install base will be which means more devs for Xbox360. Works for me.

 

[gofreak]

Why? That's the standard price of a console Wi-fi adapter.

The standard price for Wifi above and beyond the standard box for every other system (and handheld for that matter) next gen will be nil.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Kinda sucks since both the Revolution and PS3 have it built in though doesn't it?

Not really when you dont know the price of either console.

 

[trmas]

That's just it. Does CoD2 or Oblivion require the HD? They are the only games I saw in the launch lineup worth playing. I'm definately a fence-sitter, and now I'm going to wait until TGS to see what Sony counters with...

The only MUST-HAVE game I've seen for the 360 so far is GoW, and it won't be available until next year. As to why I'm pissed? Now not only do I not have FFXII, KH2, or Zelda this Fall, but I can't even rent 360 games to pass the time unless I'm willing to gamble $400 on a launch system.

With these pricepoints, I'm going to have to choose between a 360 and PS3, or a divorce. It's frustrating that the one feature I thought MS had an advantage (the HD) is gone, and the wireless controller isn't standard either. The PS3 is looking better and better to me.

So I continue to sit on the fence, and will have to make do with Grandia III and DW VIII for at least 6-7 long months until Zelda, KH, or FFXII make a release date.

 

[element]

thats because MS is pricing the accessories at incredibly inflated prices.

And Sony or Nintendo doesn't?
PlayStation 2 Network Adaptor - $39.99
Sony PlayStation 2 DUALSHOCK 2 Controller - $24.99
Sony PlayStation 2 Memory Card 8MB - $24.99
Sony USB Headset for PS2 - $29.99

I fail to see how MS has inflated prices?

 

[Particle Physicist]

Why? That's the standard price of a console Wi-fi adapter.

well then. console wifi adapters shouldnt be that price. and the 20 GB harddrive (which was supposedly standard up until a few days ago) shouldnt be $100 extra. and why isnt the wireless controller standard either? why is it $50? they should have cut the costs on the controller a bit. we really dont need to be able to turn the console on and off using the controller.. we really dont need those LED lights and whatnot.

 

[Calidor]

For only $299 you getting an amazing next gen system. That is amazing.

:lol

 

[gofreak]

And Sony or Nintendo doesn't?
PlayStation 2 Network Adaptor - $39.99
Sony PlayStation 2 DUALSHOCK 2 Controller - $24.99
Sony PlayStation 2 Memory Card 8MB - $24.99
Sony USB Headset for PS2 - $29.99

This is irrelevant next gen. Some of the points on your list are already moot. On the first point, Wifi is standard in PS3 and Rev, PS3 has a built in gigabit siwtch. $24.99 is half $50 for a controller. For $40 next gen you can get a 64MB X360 mem card or a 256MB (or more?) memory stick for your PS3.

True, we don't know the price of these other systems yet. One of them may be more expensive. But you seem to be getting a lot more too.

 

[element]

Please, link to these promises. Call it curiosity.

Yeah me too.

 

[Lord Error]

... and the prices for the peripherals are ridiculous. $99 for a wifi adapter? $99 for a 20GB HD? $50 for a wireless controller? WTFBBQ!?

Yeah, those prices are the actually the bad part, IMO. I think the actual console pricing is fine as I understand that new technology shoudn't come at low price. But the periperals are pretty expensive. For the price of one 64MB memory card, you can probably buy a 512MB Memory stick or SD card. Yes, it was like that this gen for PS2, but now even Sony offers standardized flash memory. I hope Sony doesn't follow this pricing logic as it would mean no less than $500 for a base console, in laymans thinking ($300 + 100 for BluRay + 100 for WiFi)

 

[Geek]

Please, link to these promises. Call it curiosity.

I think a lot of people took this as a "promise".

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/e32005/20050516-pressbriefing-news.htm

Still, I think the price is great.

It's so great.

It's fantastic.

 

[cyberheater]

If someone said for sure at E3 that you would be able to buy the 360 at 299 then you have thought they were smoking something. Now folks are bitching. I just don't understand it.

 

[radrelic]

For only $299 you getting an amazing next gen system. That is amazing.

VIRAL MARKETER ALERT!!


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Drexon]

I like it. $300 for a new console is the shit. It's as cheap as they come, and you get everything you need to play, even online (who doesn't have an ethernet cable, jeez).

Although maybe you need a mem card to play online... I dunno. I'm buying the $400 bundle though, so it's non of my business.

 

[TeTr1C]

I think some of the prices for the accessories is a bit bullshit, but the console is an okay price.



Oh well, no matter how much I bitch and complain or no matter how much I see people complaining, I'm still going to buy the $399 one and be happy. :lol

 

[Particle Physicist]

Yeah, those prices are the actually the bad part, IMO. I think the actual console pricing is fine as I understand that new technology shoudn't come at low price. But the periperals are pretty expensive. For the price of one 64MB memory card, you can probably buy a 512MB Memory stick or SD card. Yes, it was like that this gen for PS2, but now even Sony offers standardized flash memory. I hope Sony doesn't follow this pricing logic as it would mean no less than $500 for a base console, in laymans thinking ($300 + 100 for BluRay + 100 for WiFi)

thats my main issue. want to release two skus for the 360? fine. price the barebones harddrive-less one at 299 and the fully featured one at 399? fine. but dont try to rape me if i can only afford the cheaper one.. hoping to add the other functionalities at a later date.

 

[AniHawk]

I like it. $300 for a new console is the shit. It's as cheap as they come, and you get everything you need to play, even online (who doesn't have an ethernet cable, jeez).

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

 

[element]

PS3 has a built in gigabit siwtch.

that was removed.

For $40 next gen you can get a 64MB X360 mem card or a 256MB (or more?) memory stick for your PS3.

And what makes you think you can't do that with Xbox 360? It supports USB storage. For all we know you could plug in a 8 in 1 reader and use SD for Xbox 360 or even a USB Flash Stick.

 

[Pimpbaa]

no i didnt. the harddrive came with the xbox.. the controllers sure as hell didnt cost 50 bucks. the headset came with live.. the only accessory i would have needed before is the wifi adapter.. oh yeah. and these accessories were/are much cheaper this gen.

Yeah the harddrive came with it before, and MS is still paying for that (also, it was the ONLY console with a HD as standard). As for the controllers, they weren't wireless before. The headset came with live which you payed for!

 

[krypt0nian]

Now that I've calmed down, in the end I don't care about the $400 price for what you get with it.

...its the accessory ripoffs that still get my goat. Especially the $99 WiFi dongle. That kills me.

Luckily the ethernet out still lets me use my existing Linksys Gaming WAP.

 

[DrDogg]

The remote that comes with the $400 model isn't even the same as the remote you can buy. It's not universal and doesn't have as many features.

Also, the 360 uses standard component video cables, which means that a good number of people who would've bought the component cable for the 360 will already have an extra (or one they can swap to use with the 360) and wouldn't need to buy one anyway. Plus, the component cables that come with the 360 are probably low quality.

If the base model came with the HDD I'd be happy. As is, I'm not pleased.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

wi-fi gaming sucks at my house. I had to ditch that anyway. I am most pissed about Hard Drive optional gamers.

 

[DarienA]

I like the $299 Xbox 360. At that price I'm getting everything the original machine gave me plus increased graphical performance! This is definitely how I'd like all consoles to upgrade.. keeping all the features and value of the previous generation while giving me even more for the next generation of gaming goodness!