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The Incredibles - The Bad Reviews
- Thread starter olimario
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Warm Machine
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The Incredibles is a total turn for Pixar. I can see Brad Bird's influence all over it. The movie doesn't use humor as it's main force. It uses drama and action. The humour comes in through some of the sitations and actions the characters take as opposed to outright dialouge.
The movie is far more violent than what I expected. I was surprised that much of it wasn't covered up or sanitized. As well, there is a surprising sexual component to the film.
The movie is far more violent than what I expected. I was surprised that much of it wasn't covered up or sanitized. As well, there is a surprising sexual component to the film.
the quote about "keen western animation" has nothing to do with redundancy.karasu said:
sigh, again if you would watch ANY of the features of the movies you would have a better idea of where responsibilities lay... like most of pixar he was apart of the creative process, but hardly contributed as much to the other movies as much as he did A Bug's Life.
wtf?? there is a difference between shooting the toys normal/the rest huge and shooting the environments normal and the ants small.. you know that, right? you understand that there is a dramatic difference. it would be like saying shooting a face to fill 3/4 of the frame but shooting once in telephoto and once in wide are the same thing. as for shooting in three dimensions, I am referring to taking advantage of the fact that they are in water. shooting it from 100' underneath, overhead, creatures coming up from below them (jelly fish), etc.
bwaahahaha!!! again you mis the real meaning. be "normal kind" he means using real camera shots as opposed to sticking with the tried and true animation standards (centered fully featured characters when moving, established location shot when changing locations, no extreme angles, etc)
the one or two who don't at least respect it's contributions and innovations to the genre.
same as above.
to not like pixar is fine. but to say or imply that they really don't do anything special goes to show you have no clue as to the state or history of animation.
when it make no sense what so ever, it is baseless.karasu said:
all movies suck because they are just resolving conflict. the same thing over and over and over again. :\ once you've seen one movie you've seen them all.
but I'm done responding to you. I really can accept that you don't like the movie. That is fine.. Even if one million people like something there is still the chance of one person not liking it. and you don't even need a good reason for it.
but again, if you want to argue technical merits, come to the table with more than you have. saying all pixar movies are the same is pretty much like saying all MGM musicals are the same or all Warner gangster flicks are the same, or all universal monster movies are the same.....
Fresh Prince
Banned
IAWTPborghe said:
Look, this is an Incredibles thread. Your first post is "Eh, seen one pixar movie seen em all". I'm just saying there is differences between movies, between directors, and it's getting even more varied with various movies being produced at once, all with different directors. Because you don't like one doesnt mean you won't like the rest. If you don't like the movies as seperate movies fine. But this is an Incredibles thread and you came in telling us you seen one, you seen em all, and you don't enjoy Pixar. But whatever, I could just look over that if the thread wasn't taken over. You really need to see The Incredibles if you want to comment or give it a bad review. If not then there's no use in defending yourself without giving a legitimate argument first.
Yes, and you keep saying this over and over and over again, yet you have not defined any of these supposed styles. You just keep saying they're the same without any evidence, which conveniently prevents anyone from disagreeing with you without that person putting a lot of effort in defining those things for EACH film. You want to have your cake and eat it to. You're the one criticizing these films, yet you actively refuse to clearly define what you're criticizing. You're just waiting for someone to extensively prove you wrong and then you can nitpick and stay on the attack while still not having to reinforce your own claims.Karasu said:
So no, you do not have a base. You have a bunch of unsupported claims about seven films.
The fact that you either cannot or refuse to defend and define your own case sure leads one to suspect that you're just a hater because everyone else loves the films, which somehow makes you better than them.
karasu
Member
olimario said:
Yeah uh huh. Not once did anyone deny that their movies generally rely on the same kind of humor (a style of comedy that I don't find particuarly amusing), or that their movies use similar types of characters. That isn't "uninformed' or 'imagined. I bet that even you in all of your self servicing histrionics can see that. SOME people dig that, which is fine. I said that from the beginning. But I don't, which should be equally fine. I have a hard time believing that it's so hard to understand why an adult just might not see Pixar as the gospel truth. Not that I dislike everything targeted at kids or anything, but come the fuck on. Your fucking fish didn't move me. I wouldn't deny that they make the best animated features stateside right now, but who the hell is their competition?
j2cool- come on. I'm not the only one who commented on Pixar as a whole.
Fresh Prince
Banned
Yes refute my valid opinions!
karasu
Member
Dan said:
That is ridiculous!! Why do I have to explain Pixar's style of humor? It should be apparent to anyone that watches their films! I'm not attacking a thing. I gave my opinion on a team of filmmakers, walked away, came back and was being asked to DEFEND my opinion. WTF do you want me to say about their style of humor? That it's the slapstick that I dislike? You've seen the movies, you know the jokes. should I list specific jokes? get real man. Like I reaaaaaaaally made my orignal two or three sentence post to get into a huge fuckin debate. Yeah...I'm a "hater". Anything that helps you to cast my opinion aside buddy.
btw, to follow up on what this thread was about and how big of retards some reviewer's are, Spirited Away gets a 98% and these 2 negative responses. One is possibly the most retarded thing I've ever heard out of a movie reviewer's mouth.
"Yes, Spirited Away is a triumph of imagination, but its also a failure of storytelling."
and the other I guess the guy "just didnt get it." No argument supplied. So yeah, I take some stuff these reviewers say for a grain of salt
"Yes, Spirited Away is a triumph of imagination, but its also a failure of storytelling."
and the other I guess the guy "just didnt get it." No argument supplied. So yeah, I take some stuff these reviewers say for a grain of salt
Smiles and Cries
Member
karasu 17 posts in this thread and counting...
damn dude what Pixar done to you?
damn dude what Pixar done to you?
So the first response in this thread is made by you and involves disregarding an entire studio's catalogue of work, and you didn't think someone might call you on it? And the thread's about their latest film that you haven't even seen!karasu said:
*shakes head*
I think it's telling that you refuse or are incapable of defining what these films have in common. I think that says a lot about your claims. If it were as easy to support your claims as you say it is, you would have already done it.
I couldn't care less whether or not like their films, but if you're going to debate this stuff, you have to come willing to actually defend your own points instead of just pretending that they require no defense.
karasu
Member
Dan said:
First off their catalogue aint that big. Furthermore look at what I said! I gave my reasons, you're asking for specific instances of those reasons, which I really can't give you because I haven't watched their films since Nemo. But do you deny that they use similar characters and jokes in their films, do you deny that they have a sensibilty as a creative team? If not, then you know what I mean, you understand my reason, and I shouldn't have to tell you which minute and second of the DVD to forward to. At the same time, if you're actually surprised at the turns their plots take or the ways in which their characters develop, and it entertains you, well more power to ya. I'm not gonna be a moron and argue that.
Fresh Prince
Banned
Never exactly the same- similar. All I said that they have a formula-J2 Cool said:
1) The final conclusion for every Pixar Film so far is *shock* *horror* - a rescue.
2) Most the backup cast are similar.
3) However the environment and protaginist is different.
Anyway I think a lot of Pixar Fanboy Love comes from Disney Hate. 3D animation is a mainstay that is for sure but the 'novelty' factor will die out.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
Fresh Prince said:
Actually, there are a lot of Disney movies I like as well. But Pixar's films have all done an excellent job of telling stories. The main characters are believable and well realized. The dialogue and voice acting have all been superb. And of course they're all absolutely gorgeous visually. Each Pixar movie is an excellent example of how to make a good film, in every sense. Pixar does it right, and they haven't even come CLOSE to failing.
THAT is why I'm a Pixar fan. They haven't let me down yet. I love ALL of their movies, because they're great movies. In the "great cinema" sense of the term.
Seven films, of which you have seen six, over the course of 9 years.karasu said:
More specific than just saying the movies all have the same humor? Or the rather unjustified claim that all of their humor is slapstick? Yeah, I think such a request is only fair. I love people who make extremely vague claims and then act like the only way to get more specific is to start quoting exact dialogue or time code. Uh huh. Willco's tried that one before you buddy, it doesn't work.
No, that's not an if/not if proposition. Of course they have a sensibility, but it's most assuredly not nearly as exaggerated, specific or narrow as you make it out to be. Your entire point comes down to the idea that if you've seen one Pixar film then the others have nothing new to contribute, which is just ridiculously absurd. Of course there are similarities, but there are similarities between all films, which is where your argument completely falls apart. You have made absolutely no case about how these similiarities, which there are some, however tenuous, are more prominent than in the rest of the industry. Wild exaggerations and stereotypes in replace of actual evidence? Being contrary from the very start with no provocation or even reason for entering the thread? You keep denying that you're a hater, but you have a whole lot of the characteristics. Or you're just obscenely inarticulate.
I definitely disagree about the characters though. Pixar's characters are quite well defined, no matter how large or small the role, and your claim that they're all reused is just another wild exaggeration. Woody is not Flick who is not Marlin who is not Sully, etc. I don't think that applies to the supporting casts either. I really don't see a substantial comparison between the fishtank cast in Finding Nemo to Woody's pals in Toy Story or to the circus actors in A Bug's Life. I'm not seeing it unless you're definition of "same" is reduced to sharing simple character traits like "funny" or "fat".
Which I think is your big point. Hey, if you reduce and simplify everything to a large degree, you're going to find similarities, but to say that this is somehow more true of Pixar's catalogue of films than to other groups of cinema without any real support, well, that's asinine.
Fresh Prince said:
*sigh* do I have to?
It's called conflict resolution. Because Toy Story they disband and come back together by the end doesnt mean it's a rescue. It's about a normal life being interupted and changed by others and dealing with change. By the end of the film Buzz and Woody have come to understand each other and become friends. As friends, they make it work before destroying each other's lives and losing Andy. It's a completely different ending than any other Pixar film
Bug's Life an unlikely hero sees life outside the colony's repetitive nature. His understanding of things and seeing his friends in misery, due to his own actions ironically, cause him to realize you can't live your life in fear and under someone else. Thus in the ending he helps create a revolution and overthrows fear with courage. *cough*
Toy Story 2 has a story about a changes you face growing up. Turning away from the people you love because you know they won't always be there. It's a dynamic story really unique to the perspective of a toy. In the end, Woody away from what is normal for him, and looking a life of fame and luxury at the price of everything precious to him, gives up that fame and glory. When he's influenced, or rather forced into no choice he puts his life on the line for what he considers important. Along with this the story weaves other characters dealing with loss and also not giving up as well as a bunch of other shit
Monster's Inc. I havent seen in a while but all I know is it's a bunch of creative fun. There's something to be said for that btw in Pixar films, you don't find it often in most films. Army men used for spying on a boy's birthday party in Toy Story is not the same as a blowfish with a problem controlling himself in Finding Nemo. It's just not. But to the point, yeah, Monster's Inc. has a rescue, one of the best action scenes in an animated film ever. So hate if you must though it's the first real rescue.
Finding Nemo. Hello, it's called Finding Nemo. It's about a father and son finding each other and experiencing the world, that they live in anyway, for what is basically the first time following a tradgedy. That's the substance. It's a story about living. Take it or leave it.
The Incredibles go see... period.
If you want to name cliche ridden things, name any love story. It's always someone falls in love, someone messes it up and each character hits a terrible low, they get back together in the end. But I dont use this argument because it's about substance, not generalization. Now stop generalizing
And about 3D, as a fan of traditional animation myself, Pixar is fantastic. Before you know it they may be the only saving grace for 2D animation as Disney bails for the mula. Pixar is and always has been about story. Hopefully they take Brad Bird, creator of one of the best traditionally animated movies of all time, Iron Giant, as well as The Incredibles, and open a 2D division.
Fresh Prince
Banned
Yes I agree with you on all those accounts. Technically they do a superb job. Storywise I feel they're good but not great (however Disney has 'adopted' most of it's best movies from books, legends etc)- so I give recognition there to Pixar in trying to be original.SteveMeister said:
However to me atleast when I walked out Finding Nemo (not reading any reviews beforehand) I felt I had seen Toy Story 3 but now underwater.
Anyway Cars from what you tell me is different- so we'll see.
Fresh Prince said:
I can't quite make that connection -- I don't see any similarities that you can draw between the two movies... if you conveniently place any character within another movie -- sure -- I can connect anything if you try hard enough... but how does Finding Nemo have any relevancy to Toy Story? I don't recall any toy losing their mother from a looming moray eel, an insecure father unwilling to let go of his son because he's too scared to lose him just as he lost his wife and other children. There's tons of other stuff you seem to have smoothed over, or that you'd have to smooth over in order to make that gigantic leap.
Phoenix said:
I think he just means, because the fact that it's 3D won't automatically justify a blockbuster some day, as it seems it does today. I agree with that but Pixar has earned everything they've got. Shark's Tale though.. no. And Disney's upcoming flicks... *shudder* To that extent I definetly hope people get wise to the shitty movies and the quality.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
Fresh Prince said:
It's not that the STORIES are great -- it's that Pixar TELLS them so masterfully. There's a big difference. Very, very few movie companies -- animated or not -- can tell a story as well as Pixar can.
karasu
Member
This thread, it's like the most obscene case of selective reading and misinterpretation that I've ever encountered. To think that I'm arguing using "Click-N-Type". @_@
NOWHERE did I say that all of their humor was slapstick. This is absurd! Essentially I'm telling you that I don't find their jokes funny, and you, Dear Dan, are telling me that I am wrong.
Jesus H Santos. I entered the thread because it was about a movie I kinda want to see, since I love Superheroes and all. And since I understand Pixar's reliance on chase & rescue, I know I'll be pleased on that front. I replied because once again I was shocked to see that a Pixar fan was shocked to see that someone said something other than positive about Pixar. Since I have to justify my reasons for posting now. How about
you? Did you enter the thread to inssult me or to talk about The Increedibles?
Now supposse I said to you that I was going to make a movie. A surreal buddy comedy of sorts about a mismatched couple, outcasts, against impossible odds. It takes place in a world like our own, but beneath it, or above it, or within it but smaller, maybe secret! It'll be light hearted and happy. Full of primary colors, chase scenes, wide eyed excitement and last minute rescues. To top it all off there will be an all star cast playing cans of alphabet soup. Then I'd ask you what you would call it, you know what you'd say? You'd say " A Pixar Movie".
riiiiiiight!
I could tell you that the subject matter just flat out didn't interest me and that still wouldn't be enough. You know why, because you're a Pixar fan!
Dan said:
NOWHERE did I say that all of their humor was slapstick. This is absurd! Essentially I'm telling you that I don't find their jokes funny, and you, Dear Dan, are telling me that I am wrong.
Jesus H Santos. I entered the thread because it was about a movie I kinda want to see, since I love Superheroes and all. And since I understand Pixar's reliance on chase & rescue, I know I'll be pleased on that front. I replied because once again I was shocked to see that a Pixar fan was shocked to see that someone said something other than positive about Pixar. Since I have to justify my reasons for posting now. How about
you? Did you enter the thread to inssult me or to talk about The Increedibles?
Now supposse I said to you that I was going to make a movie. A surreal buddy comedy of sorts about a mismatched couple, outcasts, against impossible odds. It takes place in a world like our own, but beneath it, or above it, or within it but smaller, maybe secret! It'll be light hearted and happy. Full of primary colors, chase scenes, wide eyed excitement and last minute rescues. To top it all off there will be an all star cast playing cans of alphabet soup. Then I'd ask you what you would call it, you know what you'd say? You'd say " A Pixar Movie".
riiiiiiight!
I could tell you that the subject matter just flat out didn't interest me and that still wouldn't be enough. You know why, because you're a Pixar fan!
Fresh Prince
Banned
Look I'm saying this always resorting to 'the resue' for conflict resolution lacks any imagination. Sure as J2 pointed out each the characters found out different things, but the point it all climaxed when they had to rescue someone.
3pheMeraLmiX, not the character's per se or background story but as soon as Nemo got caught the thought, 'Not another rescue' flashed in my mind. Also Ellen DeGeneris(sp?) voicework doesn't help either. Yes the title of the film is Finding Nemo, but I thought Nemo would run away or something.
3pheMeraLmiX, not the character's per se or background story but as soon as Nemo got caught the thought, 'Not another rescue' flashed in my mind. Also Ellen DeGeneris(sp?) voicework doesn't help either. Yes the title of the film is Finding Nemo, but I thought Nemo would run away or something.
Search this forum for any new release for a Disney film and I'm quite sure there is somebody there declaring their love for Pixar and how Disney is over the hill. For some reason the site's laggy and the searches are taking too long.
Umm, no. This is only the second time you've actually made a comment regarding the QUALITY of the humor. The first time you said you disliked the slapstick, which if that's your real complaint, I think is pretty weak given that there is a lot of humor in their films that is not based on "chases, collisions, and crude practical jokes". The entire rest of the thread has been you complaining about how the movies are all extremely similar, including humor, and that, again, . You never once said you just didn't like it to begin with. There's a big damned difference there. I can't comment on your tastes, but I sure as hell can contest stupid claims that every Pixar movie is essentially the same.karasu said:
Funny, your first post included absolutely no indication of an interest on your part in seeing The Incredibles. None whatsoever. In fact, it had nothing to do with The Incredibles. Sorry, but it's there for the record.
Except that's not what Olimario's post was about. His post was about unfounded or illogical statements made in negative reviews about The Incredibles. There are perfectly legitimate complaints about the movie, but the things Olimario highlighted are highly questionable, which was the purpose of the thread until you derailed it at post #2 by making the topic Pixar's filmography.
I entered this thread in order to debate the similarities between Pixar's films, because by the time I saw this thread that's what it was about. You entered this thread to state an interpretation of Pixar's film catalogue and simply repeat it over and over again without supporting the claim. Other people in this thread have provided plenty of opposing viewpoints with evidence. All you do is repeat your stance and say they're wrong.
Nope, sorry, you can keep pretending that I'm offended by your tastes all you want. What's offensive here is your refusal to defend your claims and provide a basis for them. You didn't enter this thread to say "Pixar movies aren't my bag." You entered and said they were all the same and that having seen one you don't need to see any others. That's a claim that can be debated and a claim that numerous people have contested. It has nothing do with taste. Taste is irrelevant to the similarities between films.
Eh, I'm actually a fan of some of pixar's previous work and I'm a huge Iron Giant (Brad Bird) fan. I was disappointed with The Incredibles on every level. I do not understand why so many people are going crazy over it. I couldn't find any charm in the characters, comedy wise I laughed maybe twice, action wise I guess it was alright. I dunno, the whole thing oozed mediocrity to me and I couldn't and still can't understand all the praise it's getting here.
This movie doesn't come 1/100th the way of doing anything for me on the level of something like Iron Giant.
This movie doesn't come 1/100th the way of doing anything for me on the level of something like Iron Giant.
I suppose.. one would think that the realness of the characters would be more than enough charm.. as for laughing twice....sefskillz said:
sydrome accidentally throws mr. incredible
"you caught me monologuing"
"your clients have an unexplicable knowledge of the inner workings of our company"
"everytime somebody runs, we do a shot"
the whole "woman where's my supersuit" conversation
elastigirl stretched out in the hallway
the kid on the big wheels
guy getting knocked off the balcony by a rock
the cape montage
the suit fashion display
and that is just off the top of my head and as fast as I can type.. I mean that stuff is pretty basic "get a laugh from everyone" comedy..
oh well, sorry to hear that.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
sefskillz said:
U R TEH EVAL!!!!1!!1
FortNinety
Member
karasu said:
This coming from a guy that admits to liking a cartoon about a grown man running around dressed as a bat.
way more
Member
karasu said:
I like this quote, it reminds me of the line in Fight Club about the dancing cat meeting the smiling turtle.
I haven't been able to keep up with this thread but one of the issues I have is that after 18 years I'm so damn tired of Disney movies. I saw a little of that new Peter Pan movie and it was just refreshing to see something not so white-washed as Disney.
borghe said:
*SPOILERS FOR ANYONE WHO HASNT SEEN THE IRON GIANT OR THE INCREDIBLES. RUN FROM THIS THREAD*
!!!!
I can't tell you why it had more really, being that I loved the Incredibles. But I can say why it had a ton of charm. Er.. actually one thing Iron Giant did that Incredibles didn't was that it did give me a couple chill scenes. Towards the end with the Giant being superman and the reassembly seen. I don't remember any chills like that from the Incredibles though I think its because they never set a scene like that up. I still cared a lot for the characters and would have been torn apart were something to happen to one. But to why the Iron Giant was great, Hogarth and the Giant's relationship was just brilliant. Also the junkyard artist as a father figure was touching being that he was just a nice guy and slowly grew attached to Hogarth to at the end he's ready to do anything to get him out of harm's way. It was just a real interesting cast of characters and they way they all came together. Not just family, which is always there. And the movie not being a superhero flick had so much humanity in it. Hogarth was just a kid looking for anything interesting. I can't say specifically why but I grew to love these characters
I love the Incrediles also though. Not sure which one more but I can't see why you wouldn't find any charm in the characters. I know Brad Bird makes films for himself and this one was about the Dad so maybe it was harder to relate. I thought the movie was damn funny though, touching, and just a great film.
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