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[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I just hope they use this to put regular MP in TLOU Part 3. Fuck GaaS

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

To my understanding, the Bungie negative review they received was suppossedly not about the quality of the game itself, but the imposibility to monetize it in to oblivion long-term.

The leak said Bungie gave the player engagement/retention a thumbs down. Naughty Dog said they needed to pump out a lot of content to keep players engaged.

Live Service multiplayer is like an aeroplane. You need thrust (content), but you also need aerodynamics and lift, which is a high quality vanilla base game. Naughty Dog knew they needed to thrust the **** out of a boulder.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

And you can still play it, why was there a need for another one

Because it’s like a decade old and was made to run on PS3 and has pretty scummy MTX.

You can still play Last of Us 1, why did they need to make Last of Us 2?

 

[OuterLimits]

Figures. This was the only game in the whole Sony GaaS focus that I was looking forward to. Factions was pretty damn awesome and it is a shame the remake ditched it completely. Especially now considering this was cancelled.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I will adress your "tip of the iceberg" comment eventually.

Here are some numbers for PlayStation. A company that most would agree is probably more single player centric than either XBox or PC...



The above data is from September but it always looks like this. Every month the majority of top games are multiplayer Live Service.

Above are numbers from PlayStation that show "add on content" and "network services" are significantly larger than full priced games.

Lastly, here's PlayStation showing us (again) that Live Service is a larger market than traditional single player, but they expect it to grow at an exponentially faster rate as well. PlayStation is essentially saying "The single player market is saturated", though some people here won't believe it with their own two eyes.

Your "tip of the iceberg" comment showed a degree of logic. For that, I thank you. It's possible that the 11th to the 500th most played PlayStation games are overwhelmingly single player.

However, don't you think PlayStation leadership would be looking at that if that's the case?

Intern: "Mr. Ryan, I printed out this stack of papers you wanted. This shows, in descending order, the 1,000 most played games on our platform this year."

Jim Ryan: "I'll just look at the first page. No need to look at pages 2 - 30."

That scenario doesn't seem likely. The people in charge of these companies aren't gamers, they're strategists. They don't care one iota about game types. They just care about effectiveness.

PlayStation doesn't work from surveys and polls. It works from what its players are actually playing + spending money on. "Watch what they do, not what they say."

So, basically we all think big first party games are what's important but the reality for the main userbase is...which is the mainstream console to play fortnite and cod etc?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So, basically we all think big first party games are what's important but the reality for the main userbase is...which is the mainstream console to play fortnite and cod etc?

The main user base prefers multiplayer.

 

[elcapitano]

I just hope they use this to put regular MP in TLOU Part 3. Fuck GaaS

The only way to salvage this shit show and do right by the fans is to have a Factions mode in Part 3. They should be able to use a lot of scrapped content to make it fairly easily.

If Part 3 release without any MP mode then there will be an uproar and rightly so

 

[Eiknarf]

One month until the Remaster of The Last of Us Part II drops!!!

“But Eiknarf, today is the 18th and it doesn’t come out until the 19th of January”

Nah, I pre-ordered it from a mom-n-pop shop, and they get and sell new releases a day or two before street date.

 

[The artful mincer]

I will adress your "tip of the iceberg" comment eventually.

Here are some numbers for PlayStation. A company that most would agree is probably more single player centric than either XBox or PC...



The above data is from September but it always looks like this. Every month the majority of top games are multiplayer Live Service.

Above are numbers from PlayStation that show "add on content" and "network services" are significantly larger than full priced games.

Lastly, here's PlayStation showing us (again) that Live Service is a larger market than traditional single player, but they expect it to grow at an exponentially faster rate as well. PlayStation is essentially saying "The single player market is saturated", though some people here won't believe it with their own two eyes.

Your "tip of the iceberg" comment showed a degree of logic. For that, I thank you. It's possible that the 11th to the 500th most played PlayStation games are overwhelmingly single player.

However, don't you think PlayStation leadership would be looking at that if that's the case?

Intern: "Mr. Ryan, I printed out this stack of papers you wanted. This shows, in descending order, the 1,000 most played games on our platform this year."

Jim Ryan: "I'll just look at the first page. No need to look at pages 2 - 30."

That scenario doesn't seem likely. The people in charge of these companies aren't gamers, they're strategists. They don't care one iota about game types. They just care about effectiveness.

PlayStation doesn't work from surveys and polls. It works from what its players are actually playing + spending money on. "Watch what they do, not what they say."

Good post this is what I'm about! I actually wrote a much bigger post to reply but it was all over the place so I killed it lol.

To sum up though it may be true that the multiplayer audience is slightly smaller but more engaged and much more lucrative than the single player base that is bigger but spends less but plays more games. (Bigger or smaller in player numbers obviously)

NPD Top 20 is 10 each this year

Sales-Age - Circana (NPD) November 2023: #1 COD MWIII #2 Spider-Man 2 #3 Hogwarts Legacy; PS5 #1 Units + Revenue, XBS #2 Units + Revenue

State of the market U.S. consumer spending on video game content, hardware and accessories fell 7% when compared to a year ago, to $5.9 billion. The decline was driven by a 24% drop in hardware spending and a 3% dip in content. November video game content spending dropped 3% when compared to a...

www.neogaf.com

So in conclusion Sony chasing GAAS is potentially more lucrative but more risky and they have yet to prove they know what they're doing. Chasing single player is less lucrative but less risky and they have already proven to be successful.

I have nothing else to add.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Last of us did online multiplayer 10 years ago I’ll link the video



Uncharted 2 was praised for its multiplayer, ranking system, modes, maps etc. it was very nice, very fond memories with the beta and community so it shows Naughty Dog can do multiplayer.

Imagine if uncharted 6, or last of us 3 has multiplayer.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

To sum up though it may be true that the multiplayer audience is slightly smaller but more engaged and much more lucrative than the single player base that is bigger but spends less but plays more games. (Bigger or smaller in player numbers obviously)

This is a good point, and is something I don't consider. That being said, we don't know the numbers on either side so it's a pure 50/50 toss up. That being said, perhaps it's not even important. Money is all that matters and if the money is in multiplayer, that's where the business needs to go.

NPD Top 20 is 10 each this year

Sales-Age - Circana (NPD) November 2023: #1 COD MWIII #2 Spider-Man 2 #3 Hogwarts Legacy; PS5 #1 Units + Revenue, XBS #2 Units + Revenue

State of the market U.S. consumer spending on video game content, hardware and accessories fell 7% when compared to a year ago, to $5.9 billion. The decline was driven by a 24% drop in hardware spending and a 3% dip in content. November video game content spending dropped 3% when compared to a...

www.neogaf.com

These titles are purely full priced games.

So in conclusion Sony chasing GAAS is potentially more lucrative but more risky and they have yet to prove they know what they're doing. Chasing single player is less lucrative but less risky and they have already proven to be successful.

There is risk in pursuing a saturated market segment like single player. Costs continue rising and fewer and fewer SP games reach profitability. So building your production on a railway to death is actually a great risk. PlayStation is on a train headed towards a brick wall and a convertable full of hot babes (Live Service) is yelling at them to jump in. Sure, the jump is a risk...but at a certain point, staying on the track poses a greater risk.

 

[Sw0pDiller]

i feel it's a good thing ND saw in advance that a online MP game would ask too much resources for them to stay focussed on what they do best: make incredible SP games.

 

[elcapitano]

i feel it's a good thing ND saw in advance that a online MP game would ask too much resources for them to stay focussed on what they do best: make incredible SP games.

That's somewhat fair enough if they eventually use some of what they made in a multiplayer mode for Part 3 or better yet add it to the Part 2 remaster though I doubt the second one will happen.

No point wasting all that hard work when they can give the fans a package they would want and enjoy and it won't have the pitfalls of taking up their resources.

 

[The artful mincer]

This is a good point, and is something I don't consider. That being said, we don't know the numbers on either side so it's a pure 50/50 toss up. That being said, perhaps it's not even important. Money is all that matters and if the money is in multiplayer, that's where the business needs to go.

Well money is important but you need skill to be able to make it Sony has yet to prove it. The traditional game market is still big and maybe growing? Both the Switch and PS4 had record software sales last gen in units

These titles are purely full priced games.

Now Men in Boxes don't wind me up. Yes they're Full Price games but some of those games are hefty GAAS games as well. Diablo 4 and Call of duty are making bank well after they have been sold.

There is risk in pursuing a saturated market segment like single player. Costs continue rising and fewer and fewer SP games reach profitability. So building your production on a railway to death is actually a great risk. PlayStation is on a train headed towards a brick wall and a convertable full of hot babes (Live Service) is yelling at them to jump in. Sure, the jump is a risk...but at a certain point, staying on the track poses a greater risk.

Well I don't think it's as clear cut as that but I will let you have this one you rascal!

 

[Topher]

The main user base prefers multiplayer.

They prefer both. Top games sold is well-represented with single player games.

 

[geary]

Did I say they weren’t popular or this group of people on gaf don’t prefer them even though they for some twisted reason support the decision. Sony is known for great single player games, their studios are built around that. Name me one studio that was built for single player games that then became a successful GaaS studio?

Read my post boss and stop drinking the koolaid.

Respawn - Apex Legends

 

[semiconscious]

as saints row (2022) finally finds its audience...

 

[Kappa]

Glad they are focusing on sp. They can't be trusted to make a mp game as they made both uncharted and factions p2w garbage

 

[John Wick]

So why don't these clowns at ND grow the studio and get a team ready to support the Factions online game post release? They have wasted years just now to throw it all in the bin? This is sheer lunacy and total mismanagement of staff and resources. Sony need to step in and get this sorted. It beggers belief that they didn't realise an online gaas game needs post support.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

They will reduce it and add it to Part 3 as basic multiplayer.

 

[Fishels]

I just hope they use this to put regular MP in TLOU Part 3. Fuck GaaS

Pretty much. Although if Sony had any sense they’d let another studio work on this game while Naughty dog does singleplayer. One of those newly acquired ones that haven’t really put out games would be perfect

 

[Fishels]

So why don't these clowns at ND grow the studio and get a team ready to support the Factions online game post release? They have wasted years just now to throw it all in the bin? This is sheer lunacy and total mismanagement of staff and resources. Sony need to step in and get this sorted. It beggers belief that they didn't realise an online gaas game needs post support.

Is it possible Sony stepped in and made that choice? I really want ND to hand it off to another studio. Too much potential for a fantastic game and we are left with blue balls now.

TLOU Battle Royale would be so much damn fun

 

[John Bilbo]

Damn. They could have monetized the game with old school Crash Bandicoot skins dancing the macarena while stabbing people in the neck with a shiv.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So why don't these clowns at ND grow the studio and get a team ready to support the Factions online game post release? They have wasted years just now to throw it all in the bin? This is sheer lunacy and total mismanagement of staff and resources. Sony need to step in and get this sorted. It beggers belief that they didn't realise an online gaas game needs post support.

Because the real reason is that Factions 2 wasnt coming along great. It could be quality, it could be monetization issues, it could be other reasons.

If the game was coming along great and ready to rake in giant GAAS money, they'd find the resources to keep it going. Why would any company shoot a golden goose coming soon for gamers? In reality, it was a rotten goose, but they tried to spin it like nothing was wrong but the game only got squeezed out due to limited manpower and resources where somehow Sony has a limit in studio employees out of nowhere.

No different than the execs finding the money to fund buying up or partnering up studios to make games. It doesn't matter if it's a new GAAS game from a studio or buying Bluepoint or Nixxes for remakes and PC ports. If the value is there, the corporate coffers will open up. If it's not, the content will be cancelled or the studio shut down.

 

[DForce]

Because the real reason is that Factions 2 wasnt coming along great. It could be quality, it could be monetization issues, it could be other reasons.

If the game was coming along great and ready to rake in giant GAAS money, they'd find the resources to keep it going. Why would any company shoot a golden goose coming soon for gamers? In reality, it was a rotten goose, but they tried to spin it like it nothing was wrong but the game got squeezed out due to limited manpower and resources where somehow Sony has a limit in studio employees out of nowhere.

No different than the execs finding the money to fund buying up or partnering up studios to make games. It doesn't matter if it's a new GAAS game from a studio or buying Bluepoint or Nixxes for remakes and PC ports. If the value is there, the corporate coffers will open up. If it's not, the content will be cancelled or the studio shut down.

The only thing that was questioned was the longevity of the game and that means post release content.

It's not as easy as handing the game off to another studio because they would have to commit to the project for years. Naughty Dog probably wasn't aware of what it would take to make a GaaS title with long-term support

 

[elcapitano]

Looks like the Spiderman online game was cancelled as well based on the new leaks.

Looking more like mismanagement as a whole from Sony rather than perhaps the individual devs.

So that's 2 of the 6 dropped games from their initial 12 announcement. Sony fucked this up badly it seems.

 

[Negotiator101]

Looks like the Spiderman online game was cancelled as well based on the new leaks.

Looking more like mismanagement as a whole from Sony rather than perhaps the individual devs.

So that's 2 of the 6 dropped games from their initial 12 announcement. Sony fucked this up badly it seems.

Well we all know about the sackings and of course Jim's retirement which was possibly pushed forward given the dire state of PS Studios currently.

 

[Rockman33]

Respawn - Apex Legends

Their first game titanfall. A full priced multiplayer only game…

If anything they are one of the few examples that went from multiplayer to single player and multiplayer.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Looks like the Spiderman online game was cancelled as well based on the new leaks.

Looking more like mismanagement as a whole from Sony rather than perhaps the individual devs.

So that's 2 of the 6 dropped games from their initial 12 announcement. Sony fucked this up badly it seems.

Plenty of games are canceled in pre-production. That's not a sign of mismanagement. That's a company that knows what's about to work or not and keeps evaluating their priorities.
Mismanagement would be making multiple GaaS titles with studios that clearly weren't doing a good job or weren't ready for that, releasing said games and then not being able to keep up with those projects.