There's a good interview on Empire Online (those of "Citizen Kane" infamy) with Bruce Straley and Neil Druckmann. Well worth a read for some background.
Finally getting time to sit down and play this and having an absolute blast.
I'm just past the part where
Joel gives Ellie a rifle to watch his back and then finally gives her a pistol after the encounter.
I thought the game really started off slow and meh overall compared relative to my expectations but then it picked up eventually.
I absolutely adore the bow. There's nothing more satisfying than stealthing it up and silently taking guys down with strangleholds and nailing them with arrows from a hundred yards away.
And the limited amount of ammo in the game forcing you to make every shot count... sogud
I played through TLoU twice when it came out and I said its my favorite game of the generation and probably my favorite game of all time back then.
I thought that my opinion might change over time when the experience isn't as fresh anymore.
Now, a few months later, I gotta say that my perception hasn't changed one bit.
I just bought a Ps4 a few weeks ago. I'm hooked on BF4, I haven't even finished Killzone yet and I have barely started AssassinsCreed4. I also just bought Tearaway, which is amazing, and Rayman Legends on Vita. So I have A LOT to play right now, but since there were some threads and discussions about TLoU recently I felt the strong urge to put my Ps4 and Vita aside and go back to TheLastOfUs.
After finishing it for a third time I still think its the best video game ever made. Not one of the best, but the best.
I played through TLoU twice when it came out and I said its my favorite game of the generation and probably my favorite game of all time back then.
I thought that my opinion might change over time when the experience isn't as fresh anymore.
Now, a few months later, I gotta say that my perception hasn't changed one bit.
I just bought a Ps4 a few weeks ago. I'm hooked on BF4, I haven't even finished Killzone yet and I have barely started AssassinsCreed4. I also just bought Tearaway, which is amazing, and Rayman Legends on Vita. So I have A LOT to play right now, but since there were some threads and discussions about TLoU recently I felt the strong urge to put my Ps4 and Vita aside and go back to TheLastOfUs.
After finishing it for a third time I still think its the best video game ever made. Not one of the best, but the best.
I hold a similar sentiment. Game is really good. I enjoyed the Splinter Cell series for making me think but they lacked story. This game is similar with stealth but also has story and an impeccable atmosphere.
I have a PS4 and barely have a drive to play it after beating this game.
But I seem to have hit a problem with the save/story progression aspect of the game.
It happened once when I missed a chance to harvest ammo at
the dam on the river
when the game cut to a scene and then autosaved. Then the same thing happened again when
I was playing as Ellie after killing the deer
and I never got a chance to harvest some further crucial ammo and I used a first aid when I'd rather have not done so.
This has left me in a fairly precarious spot for a tough encounter, which I proceeded to fail enough times that I decided to take a break.
However, now, when I rebooted my game today, there's a crucial ammo missing from the table just before
the triple infected attack that ends with the bloater, and with only two hunting rifle rounds I don't have enough to fight the runners and clickers who drop from the roof. It's weird, the alcohol and bomb materials are there, but no ammo anymore
. I tried it ten different ways working around this scenario using different techniques, but I always die because I'm playing catch up trying to reload harvested ammo.
I have been fine with the game's toughness so far, more or less, but this is different. The autosave and cutscene mechanics seem have left me in a spot where the only alternative is to drop the difficulty down. The main shame is that it's really pulled me out of the immersion of the game. You shouldn't lose because you accidentally triggered a cutscene followed by an autosave.
Further, to have ammo that is present and needed disappear when you reload the game is not cool.
There's less ammo on hard. Even less on survivor. That's the difference in the difficulties. The stuff there on easy/normal isn't there the harder you go.
I kept dying at one difficult spot. So I saved and went to bed. The next day when I loaded my save, some ammo that had been there, was gone, and the rounds weren't in my gun.
I know that there's less ammo on hard difficulty, but I had so little ammo in this closed off area that I had to set the difficulty down a notch just to make it through the encounter.
All in all, not the greatest tragedy in the world. But it kind of stunk for me since I'd made through 80% of the game on hard difficulty and dealt with plenty of crazy situations.
Just finished the game, played 95% of it on Hard, and can't wait to play something more uplifting.
Strengths:
-Powerfully drawn characters
-Exceptionally well-crafted environments
-Overwhelming and desperate "feel" of trying to survive while managing scarcity
-Plausibly-realized post-apocalyptic USA, w/ uncanny attention to detail
-Offhand wistful moments that work
-Utterly visceral, desperate, at times claustrophobic, combat
-It's often possible to do things (stealth, make do, improvise) that at first seem totally impossible
Weaknesses:
-
Human enemies have a tendancy to devolve into repetetive, generic "kill the macho mercenary" fights. By the final chapter, the human grunts felt like the same gruff, macho, taunting opponents we'd seen again and again.
-The game revels a bit much in primal revenge fantasy, with Joel and Ellie increasingly echoing their pursuers in gusto for the kill. This culminates in a grisly major plot point, that, to me, emotionally derailed the game.
-The game graphically depicts seriously depraved acts like cannibalism, sexual predation, and human on human hunting and banditry. Basically, the uninfected humans are way more depraved than the "zombies" and the game depicts this graphically.This stuff is worth a mention and could have been flagged in a few more reviews, imo.
-Later in the game, you will survive on skill, instinct and pluck only to have a cut scene you have no control over leave you powerless headed into the next chapter, and then this happens all over again, in increasingly implausible ways. I found this exasperating and way worse than any ladder or raft. After stealthing everywhere...Joel...don't open that door!!
-The save system is a bit wonky
-The game is just so bleak. Time after time, Joel and Ellie visit someplace out of hope only to find it abandoned, desecrated, under attack and falling to pieces. SLC fits this to a T, and even the hydro dam fits this, too. Maybe there's hope for Ish?
-At a certain point the cheap death scenes for Ellie and Joel were too much and I just wanted the game to be over. After making it through the Underpass, the Dorm Basement and the Elevator shaft...cheap grunt deaths just felt so stupid and were maybe not the best note to close the game.
Finally, not a weakness of the game per se, but:
-
Scientific experiments on humans are a violation of human rights and are war crimes under the Geneva Conventions and Rule 92 of the IHL. I know, kind of pointless to mention in this context...but it kind of bothers me that it doesn't seem to come up often enough when discussing Joel vs. Marlene. And, yes, it goes without saying that Joel and Ellie kill hundreds upon hundreds of people. But does every game like this have to be an abbatoir where we seem to completely forget that there's actually such a thing as a war crime? Why do so many big games have to be a visceral killing field?
-The game revels a bit much in primal revenge fantasy, with Joel and Ellie increasingly echoing their pursuers in gusto for the kill. This culminates in a grisly major plot point, that, to me, emotionally derailed the game.
Ellie killing David? I would think that her actions made perfect sense in that context, given what she had gone through up to that point. What was your problem with it?
-The game graphically depicts seriously depraved acts like cannibalism, sexual predation, and human on human hunting and banditry. Basically, the uninfected humans are way more depraved than the "zombies" and the game depicts this graphically.This stuff is worth a mention and could have been flagged in a few more reviews, imo.
-The game is just so bleak. Time after time, Joel and Ellie visit someplace out of hope only to find it abandoned, desecrated, under attack and falling to pieces. SLC fits this to a T, and even the hydro dam fits this, too. Maybe there's hope for Ish?
20 years post-apocalypse (if you want to call it that). That's a substantial amount of time for the infected and hunters to spread.
-Scientific experiments on humans are a violation of human rights and are war crimes under the Geneva Conventions and Rule 92 of the IHL. I know, kind of pointless to mention in this context...but it kind of bothers me that it doesn't seem to come up often enough when discussing Joel vs. Marlene. And, yes, it goes without saying that Joel and Ellie kill hundreds upon hundreds of people. But does every game like this have to be an abbatoir where we seem to completely forget that there's actually such a thing as a war crime? Why do so many big games have to be a visceral killing field?
This seems to be more of a problem with fan analysis and reception than the game itself.
20 years after the fall of man, and taking into account just what we have seen humanity become, it isn't beyond reasonable doubt that everything regarding the Geneva Convention is gone out the window. Lawlessness abides.
Trying to picture Joel using the Geneva Convention as a defense...nope, that would just be really weird.
Sure not every game has to be like that, but this one kinda does.
Ok, lol, allow me to put in a good-natured, somewhat off topic plug for the Hippocratic Oath and the Geneva Conventions.
As for
David
, yes, I felt that sequence emotionally derailed the story for me.
He is a cannibalistic, sexual predator grooming Ellie to be his next victim. As part of that, Ellie is kept in a cage and forced to watch humans being butchered for meat (In a region with plentiful game and wildlife?) after which David offers her the macabre choice of sexual slavery or being eaten herself. I get that she kills David to survive (however implausible it is, even by the game's own mechanics) but we're supposed to ignore the implications of what Ellie went through during her imprisonment and just return to the main narrative? That's asking alot.
Ok, lol, allow me to put in a good-natured, somewhat off topic plug for the Hippocratic Oath and the Geneva Conventions.
As for
David
, yes, I felt that sequence emotionally derailed the story for me.
He is a cannibalistic, sexual predator grooming Ellie to be his next victim. As part of that, Ellie is kept in a cage and forced to watch humans being butchered for meat (In a region with plentiful game and wildlife?) after which David offers her the macabre choice of sexual slavery or being eaten herself. I get that she kills David to survive (however implausible it is, even by the game's own mechanics) but we're supposed to ignore the implications of what Ellie went through during her imprisonment and just return to the main narrative? That's asking alot.
Well, I certainly didn't ignore it, nor did the majority of people who played the game, Naughty Dog, and the characters in the narrative itself. Neither did you, judging by your post. I just fail to see exactly what you're criticizing.
subplot works for you (and many others), I'm saying that it dragged me out of the game and was inexplicably macabre. I can only state what I experienced, which I tried my best to do in a balanced way above. I guess my bottom line is that it just seems needlessly grim and manipulative.
Given the genre, it's totally fair to ask "what did I expect?"
Finally finished this. It was ok. I didn't enjoy fighting the zombies at all. Human combat was better but there was way too much of it at the end of the game. I will say the story and presentation are second to none, but man that ending really pissed me off.
I was with Joel as a character up until he went complete psychopath and murdered everyone. Ok he indentifies Ellie as his daughter at that point, but to save one life he's gonna kill 50 people and forsake all of humanity. And then Ellie just goes along with what he says just like that? Eh.
Finally finished this. It was ok. I didn't enjoy fighting the zombies at all. Human combat was better but there was way too much of it at the end of the game. I will say the story and presentation are second to none, but man that ending really pissed me off.
I was with Joel as a character up until he went complete psychopath and murdered everyone. Ok he indentifies Ellie as his daughter at that point, but to save one life he's gonna kill 50 people and forsake all of humanity. And then Ellie just goes along with what he says just like that? Eh.
I'm pretty sure, or at least I'm hoping, she isn't alright with it. The "ok" totally sounded like she knew he was lying. I hope she takes revenge on him in the sequel lol
Finally finished this. It was ok. I didn't enjoy fighting the zombies at all. Human combat was better but there was way too much of it at the end of the game. I will say the story and presentation are second to none, but man that ending really pissed me off.
I was with Joel as a character up until he went complete psychopath and murdered everyone. Ok he indentifies Ellie as his daughter at that point, but to save one life he's gonna kill 50 people and forsake all of humanity. And then Ellie just goes along with what he says just like that? Eh.
He didn't sacrifice anything. That "cure" was an idealized false hope, and Joel saw right through it. Humankind was long lost already. The fireflies would have killed Ellie if she volunteered or not. She had no choice in the matter. Marlene said as much. That's monstrous.
If there was any hope for humanity, it would be in protecting the innocent, loving and looking after those you care about... and places like Tommy's encampment.
Not murdering little children to conduct science experiments that have no guarantee of working.
Joel did what a real father would do... he chose to carry all the weight and emotional baggage, so Ellie could live her life and have whatever childhood could be had in such a world. And I suspect Ellie will understand that in time. She could also make her choice later, when she is older, and decide then whether or not the people of the world are worth sacrificing herself for.
There was no guarantee of working, but it was a possibility. Joel knew that, more importantly, Ellie knew that and that she'd die on the table, there was no hesitation on Ellies part, just Joels. He was selfish. Wasn't even his choice to make.
Yay, the credits are rolling. This game lived up to the praise. After everything I heard about the ending
I'm surprised that both Joel and Ellie survived. I was expecting them to both die in some awful way. But obviously it was not exactly a happy ending, lol
. Anyways, mobile makes it impossible to post all my thoughts right now, but I thought this was fantastic from in both gameplay and narrative. I love Uncharted but TLoU is the best Naughty Dog game on PS3 fosho.
He didn't sacrifice anything. That "cure" was an idealized false hope, and Joel saw right through it. Humankind was long lost already. The fireflies would have killed Ellie if she volunteered or not. She had no choice in the matter. Marlene said as much. That's monstrous.
If there was any hope for humanity, it would be in protecting the innocent, loving and looking after those you care about... and places like Tommy's encampment.
Not murdering little children to conduct science experiments that have no guarantee of working.
Joel did what a real father would do... he chose to carry all the weight and emotional baggage, so Ellie could live her life and have whatever childhood could be had in such a world. And I suspect Ellie will understand that in time. She could also make her choice later, when she is older, and decide then whether or not the people of the world are worth sacrificing herself for.
Those calling Joel selfish obviously haven't asked themselves the obvious question: what if it were your daughter? Can you honestly, sincerely say you'd sacrifice her for a slim chance of a cure, to save the humans who have been trying to murder you? If so, I dare say you're the sociopath. Not that anyone could really say "yes I'd totally do this for sure" because there's no way to know how you'd react, obviously.
There was no guarantee of working, but it was a possibility. Joel knew that, more importantly, Ellie knew that and that she'd die on the table, there was no hesitation on Ellies part, just Joels. He was selfish. Wasn't even his choice to make.
In all honesty... Would you sacrifice your child for a "possibility"? And it wasn't his choice to make, true... but it wasn't Marlene's either! The Fireflies denied that choice from Ellie. Joel just postponed it.
My bad, I saw spoiler tags and naturally assumed I was in the other thread so I tagged without checking the thread title... >_> I'll remove my own tags.
^ even with the warning I don't wanna accidentally spoil some poor sap lookin for an OT.
The great thing about the ending is the nuance of it: It's hard to agree or disagree with Joel's actions. It's not black or white, good or bad. I was definitely satisfied with it.
I'd recommend leaving melee prompts and tag popups on. I admire you for the absolute minimilistic UI approach but those two options shouldn't really break the immersion all that much. Thinking back I feel like having those off could have made some aspects of the game annoyingly difficult.
I'd leave melee prompts on for the first run, other than that I think you're good.
Tag popups are just messages that show up when you complete certain challenges in the game (basically in-game trophies) so you can leave that one turned off.
I literally have 5 friends that have stopped playing this game 1-4 hours into it and have not gone any further (for about a month or two now). It's insane! I only have 2 friends that have completed the game and they absolutely love it (say it is the best game this generation). I don't know how to convince them to play it! Every time I suggest they get further it's like I'm trying to convert them to become a satanist or something.
So I just got off the plane from NY. While I was on the plane however, I was watching The Prisoners. And oh my god... Is it just me or does Hugh Jackman look exactly like Joel in that film?! It was crazy. Similar outfit, similar voice, and heck they both had the scruff going on. :|
perfecting casting for a movie if you ask me. Hahaha!
So I just got off the plane from NY. While I was on the plane however, I was watching The Prisoners. And oh my god... Is it just me or does Hugh Jackman look exactly like Joel in that film?! It was crazy. Similar outfit, similar voice, and heck they both had the scruff going on. :|
perfecting casting for a movie if you ask me. Hahaha!
I was playing the game through chapter select to collect some collectibles I've missed and after playing through The University I can't pick chapter select anymore... now it just says "Continue The x" wtf? I previously played other chapters to collect things and whenever I finished finding what I found I could just, save, exit to menu and that was that... I could choose chapter select again or Start New Game +
I was playing the game through chapter select to collect some collectibles I've missed and after playing through The University I can't pick chapter select anymore... now it just says "Continue The x" wtf? I previously played other chapters to collect things and whenever I finished finding what I found I could just, save, exit to menu and that was that... I could choose chapter select again or Start New Game +
Funny thing about the game... upon repeated playthroughs, feels like there isn't enough combat. I'm one of those folks who like a good balance of exploration/combat and I thought TLoU was balanced very well, especially my first couple times playing. But going back to it now, kinda want to scrap a bit more through the game since I've long since explored every nook and cranny. And because the combat is really awesome.
... With The Last of Us, we went past our comfort zone by including fewer combat encounters than we had in our previous games. And with our DLC, were trying to go even further past our comfort zone. There are a couple of long stretches in the DLC where theres no combat, and were trying to keep you engaged in other mechanics. Its going to be an interesting test for us to see how people will react to it.
Funny thing about the game... upon repeated playthroughs, feels like there isn't enough combat. I'm one of those folks who like a good balance of exploration/combat and I thought TLoU was balanced very well, especially my first couple times playing. But going back to it now, kinda want to scrap a bit more through the game since I've long since explored every nook and cranny. And because the combat is really awesome.
... With The Last of Us, we went past our comfort zone by including fewer combat encounters than we had in our previous games. And with our DLC, were trying to go even further past our comfort zone. There are a couple of long stretches in the DLC where theres no combat, and were trying to keep you engaged in other mechanics. Its going to be an interesting test for us to see how people will react to it.
Honestly I felt that like there was too much combat in the game. For a barren wasteland of a world there sure are a lot of people out there who want to kill you. I would have wanted less combat and more exploration, which is exactly what this DLC seems to offer.
Honestly I felt that like there was too much combat in the game. For a barren wasteland of a world there sure are a lot of people out there who want to kill you. I would have wanted less combat and more exploration, which is exactly what this DLC seems to offer.
Ok, lol, allow me to put in a good-natured, somewhat off topic plug for the Hippocratic Oath and the Geneva Conventions.
As for
David
, yes, I felt that sequence emotionally derailed the story for me.
He is a cannibalistic, sexual predator grooming Ellie to be his next victim. As part of that, Ellie is kept in a cage and forced to watch humans being butchered for meat (In a region with plentiful game and wildlife?) after which David offers her the macabre choice of sexual slavery or being eaten herself. I get that she kills David to survive (however implausible it is, even by the game's own mechanics) but we're supposed to ignore the implications of what Ellie went through during her imprisonment and just return to the main narrative? That's asking alot.
Maybe she's good at hiding her feelings? Maybe it will be explored in some form of DLC or book? We can't get into her head and there's a time lapse before the next chapter.
Finished my second playthrough yesterday and aimed to find all collectibles (glitched out on me, but no matter). This time I managed to get the final comic, which basically ended the tale with a "how long will they be able to keep their actions a secret?" line. Wondering whether this forshadowing of the sequel.
Wouldn't be surprised if the story started out with rumors about joel's actions in the first game and Ellie's immunity surfacing and people turning against the two.
When I saw the Walking Dead (S3) episode featuring a now damaged "Governor", I thought how insanely perfect that would have worked if ND did happen to do a Last of Us 2. Where it starts just the same as the episode but with a much older, battle damaged Joel (replacing the Governors role) wandering the streets devoid of life (ready to die) and the player starts to realize that Ellie has either died or left Joel. Those episodes even fit a "game tone" where he went on missions to retrieve some insulin for the older guy...
Then as you continue making it through Joels story, you eventually realize you are taking the role as the main antagonist. That is when it switches over to a much older Ellie, which has now sheltered with a new group (Joels bro?) and you spend the game playing as Ellie and defending from the now unrecognizable Joel (similar to the Walking Dead).
Finally went back to playing this after putting it down for months (a crime, I know). I'm not really sure why I ever put it down... I just got to the truck ambush scene we saw in one of the game's trailers. How far into the game am I?
Finally went back to playing this after putting it down for months (a crime, I know). I'm not really sure why I ever put it down... I just got to the truck ambush scene we saw in one of the game's trailers. How far into the game am I?
Currently on Survivor+ and on this run I am attempting the big one:
All Collectables (Comics, Manuals, Artifacts, Pendants)
All Conversations
All Jokes
All Shiv Doors
I have fought at the
power station with Tommy and am about to chase down Ellie who's legged it on a horse! I totally forgot about this sequence.
Anyway, I am currently on 11 Doors, 33 Conversions and 112 Collectables. I have got the Trophy for the Jokes now. Annoyingly, I 'wasted' a Shiv on a door I had unlocked on the my original run through the game, hopefully I will remember the last two I have missed.
Is it possible to chapter select the game to get a missing door? Does it tell you which chapters you have and haven't unlocked doors on? And, what if that Chapter has no shiv-craftable stuff, I guess I would have to go back further to find the components.
Another run through the game on NG++ wouldn't exactly piss me off if I had to do it, I am on my 3rd playthrough anyway!
By the time I am done, it will be DLC time, and then I'll concentrate on the online side of the game. Not tried it at all yet.
