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The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel |OT| Class Warfare

A

Abdiel

Member
Hcoregamer00 said:
Alisa is the female lead for all intents and purposes, whether she will be in a romance with the lead character is something we don't know. But for all the promo material for this game and the second one, she is the one standing with the main character, and I imagine that she gets a more central role in Cold Steel 2 and 3.

She gets the most screentime with Rean and she gets the most character development with him, and she is billed as the main female character.
Click to expand...

I *like* Alisa. I think she's a good character, with lots of room to grow and develop into her strengths. I even think romantically she and Rean are a good pairing.

I just like Laura and Rean as a pairing better now after having completed the game and seen more of their unique bonding moments, where you get to see more of Laura's other personal moments. How Laura perceives Rean is also different than Alisa too, which is part of why I like their pairing more as well.

Just me though. I don't think either pairing is in any way bad. I would support Emma as a pairing too if she were able to open up more, but she's still hiding too much to really let anyone in at this point.

And I think that Fie looks at Rean as a figure of trust and respect, they don't make it a romantic thing, which I thought was good.
When she describes how he reminded her of the Jaeger King, in terms of how she feels around him, I thought that was a good moment. Captures that whole idea of Fie finding a new family she can trust and fight for and with, to protect as allies and friends. They didn't try to shoehorn a romancey aspect into her moment there.

Towa is really cute too though. Her moments always just made me smile. She's just adorable.

And while this post kind of buys into the whole "Harem" criticism I saw earlier, I want to make it clear that I don't think this is really fair, since at no point are all these women throwing themselves at Rean. He's got women in his close circle, and several of them have the options to see more romantic inclinations, but it definitely isn't a Love Hina, or even for a more recent, SAO situation. The female cast members are not defined by their feelings for Rean, it's just a possible facet of development as part of pursuing those closer relationships with individuals. And certainly not everyone at once, with how the mechanics work out for the
Afterparty Dance
.

So, anyone looking at this and worrying about it being too overly haremy, or anything, I'd just brush that off. Each of the female characters has great qualities entirely on their own to add, that I really liked getting to see. I did enjoy the potential romantic aspects as it does bring out unique characterizations as well.

I still go Laura, though.
 
S

SatelliteOfLove

Member
Abdiel said:
And I think that Fie looks at Rean as a figure of trust and respect, they don't make it a romantic thing, which I thought was good.
When she describes how he reminded her of the Jaeger King, in terms of how she feels around him, I thought that was a good moment. Captures that whole idea of Fie finding a new family she can trust and fight for and with, to protect as allies and friends. They didn't try to shoehorn a romancey aspect into her moment there.
Click to expand...

This was good, too. They have a good vis-a-vis and Fie is no longer being
drolly brash as she was raised by a bunch of hard-drinking mercs and thats how she bonds with crew like earlier in ch 2-5ish.
 
N

Nyoro SF

Member
OK I'll post one last speculation post; don't want to clog the thread anymore but I enjoy thinking about some possibilities. It's kind of frustrating that I'm still on Field Study so I can't go back to campus to look some things up. Continuation from my last post, Chapter 4:

Originally I speculated that Sara was a vampire hunter. In the Trails universe though, a vampire hunter would be none other than a Grailsritter, correct? Now it is possible that Sara is a Grailsritter, but I haven't heard of any references to the church at all with her. Nor with Sharon. Still, it's possible that both are Grailsritter and would explain both of them having such mysterious abilities; perhaps artifact usage on top of any potential mythical powers they have. Sara and Sharon aren't on the best of terms but I remember Sara saying "When are you returning?" (Competition?).

Now that I began on the topic of Grailsritter I've noticed that the church has largely stayed in the background in Cold Steel. Sure, you can enter churches, and you can do tasks for them, but largely we haven't done anything with the churches. This is similar to FC/SC where the church didn't get any significant role until SC. However with the possibility of Grailsritters doing work it's not a bad idea to assume that there will be serious church involvement soon.

Wouldn't the church want to eliminate supernatural beings though? Largely speaking from experience of churches in fictional media. I'm sure this will get cleared up soon. Unlike the old schoolhouse, I have no idea wtf is going on there or what's locked away that requires Emma to bust out. Sara doesn't know anything about the old schoolhouse ("I thought the building was useful only for training") unless she's lying, which is very much possible, so what does Emma know that we don't?

Super-wild speculation: Emma is trying to save Crossbell from the WMDs in Erebonia using the old schoolhouse somehow?

When it comes to classmates and secrets, here's my speculation:
Rean: Already speculated about his vampire status; WHAT IS A SHOUNEN? *tosses cat*
Alisa: Some sort of divine being if her Angel quartz is a hint
Elliot: Most normal guy ever. Honestly, I have no clue why he was put into Class VII.
Machias: This guy wears his heart on his forehead so I'm going to doubt that he has any supernatural power, I think he was chosen merely for his political influence.
Julius: Likes horses a lot, so... a dullahan? Would be hilarious, though he is in all likelihood probably not supernatural, given that I have no hints
Emma: Very clearly a witch in-game, shown as early as Chapter 2
Laura: I suppose a "knight". XSEED stated that Laura speaks like a typical classic knight in Japanese, so perhaps merely a "reincarnated mythical warrior"?
Fie: Got nothing. I was going to make fairy jokes because of how small she is but I don't think I have any basis. Emma is obsessed with Fie, but I don't know why.
Gaius: So this guy won't shut up about the wind, and his S-Craft is mighty suspicious looking, and his heritage just screams some sort of folklore influence... but I got nothing. Maybe my lack of knowledge is to blame.
Crow: White hair, red eyes(?)... so Crow is a vampire too? Makes the most sense since he apparently is A-OK with Rean going into Dalles Mode. He fires funny looking bullets, I was going to make silver bullet jokes but I couldn't really tell.
Angelika: Succubus.... probably not. Maybe the spandex isn't just my lust for fanservice? Is she covering something up that would compromise her identity, or is it needed as part of her identity, or does she just want to look sexy? There's no way she's not supernatural since she knows Crow and was part of the original Class VII though.
George: ....Orbal-powered Frankenstein?
Towa: She's so cute she defies our logical universe. Insert fairy joke. No in all seriousness, she is something, but I don't know what.

I hope to finish Chapter 4 today.

Oh, in an unrelated note on Chapter 4...
That "battle" between Fie and Laura where they cycled through all of their crafts was SO BAD, I was laughing my ass off. Fitting that it ends with Fie's stiff grenade toss.

Also with everyone beginning to unlock more crafts this game is becoming even more broken than I thought possible. Almost everyone is unlocking Area (L) attacks, or Area (L) buffs that make you insane. The power creep, how high can it go? lol
 
P

psynergylover

Member
just finished ch.4; looks like the enemy is starting to bare its fangs

though I'd say it was on the most typical JRPG fashion: maybe I've become to realistic since playing so many JRPG's but:

Gideon summons that dragon; which I was stunned the Rean and co just let that happen. While they were fighing the dragon Gideon could easily grabbed the princess and Elise. Then once they beat the dragon and the rest of Gideon's crew shows up and their leader, the leader alone beats up Rean and Co. and monologues(slightly) which gives time for Sara and the RMP to show up then he blows up the dungeon and both parties escape.

Though it was nice to see Sara's backround finally revealed and why she's has a cold sholder to the Icy Maiden( terrible pun intended)

also glad Laura and Fie made up! Rean is freakin Dr. Phil though Elliot played a part



Edit and it's so obvious the
chancellor is shady as fuck! would not be surprised if he has some connection to the Liberation Front

EDIT 2: Also bought Trails in the Sky!!!
 
B

bomblord1

Banned
Nyoro SF said:
OK I'll post one last speculation post; don't want to clog the thread anymore but I enjoy thinking about some possibilities. It's kind of frustrating that I'm still on Field Study so I can't go back to campus to look some things up. Continuation from my last post, Chapter 4:

Originally I speculated that Sara was a vampire hunter. In the Trails universe though, a vampire hunter would be none other than a Grailsritter, correct? Now it is possible that Sara is a Grailsritter, but I haven't heard of any references to the church at all with her. Nor with Sharon. Still, it's possible that both are Grailsritter and would explain both of them having such mysterious abilities; perhaps artifact usage on top of any potential mythical powers they have. Sara and Sharon aren't on the best of terms but I remember Sara saying "When are you returning?" (Competition?).

Now that I began on the topic of Grailsritter I've noticed that the church has largely stayed in the background in Cold Steel. Sure, you can enter churches, and you can do tasks for them, but largely we haven't done anything with the churches. This is similar to FC/SC where the church didn't get any significant role until SC. However with the possibility of Grailsritters doing work it's not a bad idea to assume that there will be serious church involvement soon.

Wouldn't the church want to eliminate supernatural beings though? Largely speaking from experience of churches in fictional media. I'm sure this will get cleared up soon. Unlike the old schoolhouse, I have no idea wtf is going on there or what's locked away that requires Emma to bust out. Sara doesn't know anything about the old schoolhouse ("I thought the building was useful only for training") unless she's lying, which is very much possible, so what does Emma know that we don't?

Super-wild speculation: Emma is trying to save Crossbell from the WMDs in Erebonia using the old schoolhouse somehow?

When it comes to classmates and secrets, here's my speculation:
Rean: Already speculated about his vampire status; WHAT IS A SHOUNEN? *tosses cat*
Alisa: Some sort of divine being if her Angel quartz is a hint
Elliot: Most normal guy ever. Honestly, I have no clue why he was put into Class VII.
Machias: This guy wears his heart on his forehead so I'm going to doubt that he has any supernatural power, I think he was chosen merely for his political influence.
Julius: Likes horses a lot, so... a dullahan? Would be hilarious, though he is in all likelihood probably not supernatural, given that I have no hints
Emma: Very clearly a witch in-game, shown as early as Chapter 2
Laura: I suppose a "knight". XSEED stated that Laura speaks like a typical classic knight in Japanese, so perhaps merely a "reincarnated mythical warrior"?
Fie: Got nothing. I was going to make fairy jokes because of how small she is but I don't think I have any basis. Emma is obsessed with Fie, but I don't know why.
Gaius: So this guy won't shut up about the wind, and his S-Craft is mighty suspicious looking, and his heritage just screams some sort of folklore influence... but I got nothing. Maybe my lack of knowledge is to blame.
Crow: White hair, red eyes(?)... so Crow is a vampire too? Makes the most sense since he apparently is A-OK with Rean going into Dalles Mode. He fires funny looking bullets, I was going to make silver bullet jokes but I couldn't really tell.
Angelika: Succubus.... probably not. Maybe the spandex isn't just my lust for fanservice? Is she covering something up that would compromise her identity, or is it needed as part of her identity, or does she just want to look sexy? There's no way she's not supernatural since she knows Crow and was part of the original Class VII though.
George: ....Orbal-powered Frankenstein?
Towa: She's so cute she defies our logical universe. Insert fairy joke. No in all seriousness, she is something, but I don't know what.

I hope to finish Chapter 4 today.

Oh, in an unrelated note on Chapter 4...
That "battle" between Fie and Laura where they cycled through all of their crafts was SO BAD, I was laughing my ass off. Fitting that it ends with Fie's stiff grenade toss.

Also with everyone beginning to unlock more crafts this game is becoming even more broken than I thought possible. Almost everyone is unlocking Area (L) attacks, or Area (L) buffs that make you insane. The power creep, how high can it go? lol
Click to expand...

On your speculation let me just say you are reading a little TOO far into it lol.

As for "How broken can it get?" I'm in Chapter 6 and combining Rean's Gale craft with an orbment that doubles the damage of the first attack/craft I'm finishing most multi enemy fights in 1 turn.
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
ChaosZeroX said:
I've been thinking of getting this game.

I'm a big story guy, hows the story in this and whats the length of the game?
Click to expand...

Fantastic story with lots of mysteries, politics and great characters, although you need some tolerance for anime tropes. It's not that bad though.

Lenght is anywhere from 50-80 hours I guess
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
YianGaruga said:
Fantastic story with lots of mysteries, politics and great characters, although you need some tolerance for anime tropes. It's not that bad though.

Lenght is anywhere from 50-80 hours I guess
Click to expand...

Heh. I'm at 80 hours and just started the Chapter 6 field study. Although I tend to take my time with these games. SC took me 95 hours. Although I'm surprised that my Cold Steel playthrough will wind up around the same length given that this game has less than half the text that SC did. Just playing them I would have guessed closer to 2/3rds the size of the script.
 
P

psynergylover

Member
also why didn't you guys tell me about the toughest boss in the entire game!?!?!?!

CYx9_KPWkAAt_2E.jpg


RESPECT MR.TIDDLES!!!
 
B

Basileus777

Member
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Heh. I'm at 80 hours and just started the Chapter 6 field study. Although I tend to take my time with these games. SC took me 95 hours. Although I'm surprised that my Cold Steel playthrough will wind up around the same length given that this game has less than half the text that SC did. Just playing them I would have guessed closer to 2/3rds the size of the script.
Click to expand...

This game is going to take me like 20 hours longer than SC did. It feels like a much longer game than SC.
 
N

Nyoro SF

Member
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Heh. I'm at 80 hours and just started the Chapter 6 field study. Although I tend to take my time with these games. SC took me 95 hours. Although I'm surprised that my Cold Steel playthrough will wind up around the same length given that this game has less than half the text that SC did. Just playing them I would have guessed closer to 2/3rds the size of the script.
Click to expand...

This is surprising me as well. I'm on Chapter 4 but I have about 35 hours locked in. I think it's a number of factors, one being that despite the game having less text, it takes way longer to run places, plus the load times do add up; one thing in particular being that it takes around 20 seconds to both save and load a game. I think out of those 35 hours I spent like 15 in chapter 3 -_-

bomblord1 said:
On your speculation let me just say you are reading a little TOO far into it lol.

As for "How broken can it get?" I'm in Chapter 6 and combining Rean's Gale craft with an orbment that doubles the damage of the first attack/craft I'm finishing most multi enemy fights in 1 turn.
Click to expand...

I got too carried away!
I think I'm definitely wrong about Sara being a Grailsritter now that I think back though. Maybe she was just a contractor or something lol

Machias having a 50/50 chance of petrifying the whole field of enemies, Jusis's Noble Command, Rean's Gale, Elliot getting a craft which essentially makes you invincible. So far, I haven't had a single boss fight which was challenging minus the Chapter 2 end battle, where only one guy got KO'd. :(
 
B

Bladenic

Member
Can't you buy the Red Rose books if you miss them? I'm rushing through Nightmare and missed one oops.

Also I was thinking about my favorite characters.

Class 7: Emma, Jusis, Gaius, Laura. Luckily I like everyone though

Everyone else: Sara, Crow, Angelica, Neithardt, Elliot's dad LMAO; Laura's dad

Thors students: I really love Kenneth for some reason. Dude just doesn't give a fuck about anything but fishing. Also Vivi, Dorothy, Vincent, and Mint
 
R

Ramzastrife

Member
Bladenic said:
Can't you buy the Red Rose books if you miss them? I'm rushing through Nightmare and missed one oops.

Also I was thinking about my favorite characters.

Class 7: Emma, Jusis, Gaius, Laura. Luckily I like everyone though

Everyone else: Sara, Crow, Angelica, Neithardt, Elliot's dad LMAO; Laura's dad

Thors students: I really love Kenneth for some reason. Dude just doesn't give a fuck about anything but fishing. Also Vivi, Dorothy, Vincent, and Mint
Click to expand...

I bought the first one from the pawn shop, but I also missed the 3rd one and have not yet seen it, though I am guessing they are only available for a short time if you miss them originally. So I am guessing I missed it both times. If anyone could confirm that for me, I would greatly appreciate it. I am currently in the last chapter so I am pretty confident that I am SOL.
 
F

Famassu

Member
I ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Laura in combat. Fully loaded S-craft + 25% Strength buff + critical turn = almost 17 000 damage to a boss.

❤
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
Famassu said:
I ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Laura in combat. Fully loaded S-craft + 25% Strength buff + critical turn = almost 17 000 damage to a boss.

❤
Click to expand...

I have currently 3 Laura crafts ..i consider all 3 broken.

BUt i still love spamming them !!

"Shatter !"
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
Famassu said:
I ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Laura in combat. Fully loaded S-craft + 25% Strength buff + critical turn = almost 17 000 damage to a boss.

❤
Click to expand...

Near end game i was able to push it to over 50K

And I havent even tries some of the other master quartz combos and Max possible STR
 
E

Erheller

Member
ChaosZeroX said:
I've been thinking of getting this game.

I'm a big story guy, hows the story in this and whats the length of the game?
Click to expand...

The Trails games amazing stories. Great writing (although this one has a ton of anime tropes early on) and immaculate worldbuilding. Trails of Cold Steel is a little slow compared to other JRPG offerings, but it's much better paced than Trails in the Sky FC and SC. And the slow pace really helps you become invested into the world.

If you do get the game, talk to everyone on the school campus all the time. Pretty much all of the students at the academy have their own little stories that unfold over the course of the year, and it's great fun watching them.
 
L

LimeD3

Neo Member
Ramzastrife said:
I bought the first one from the pawn shop, but I also missed the 3rd one and have not yet seen it, though I am guessing they are only available for a short time if you miss them originally. So I am guessing I missed it both times. If anyone could confirm that for me, I would greatly appreciate it. I am currently in the last chapter so I am pretty confident that I am SOL.
Click to expand...

Go to Micht's Pawn Shop and check what he's selling. If he doesn't have one of your books in stock exit his shop and re-enter. Do this a few times and eventually it should pop up in stock, replacing one of the food items. I don't know if they ever expire, but I did manage to buy the third book in like chapter 5 when I found out about this
 
N

Novel Mike

Member
Famassu said:
I ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Laura in combat. Fully loaded S-craft + 25% Strength buff + critical turn = almost 17 000 damage to a boss.

❤
Click to expand...

I hit the damage cap 99999 with her on the final boss, on Nightmare. I was just like... damn girl you are so fucking OP.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
If Laura is that OP what must Victor be like? :O
 
P

Psxphile

Member
Finally completed Chapter 3. Having two days off gave me ample time to make progress, despite a myriad of other things I need to be doing. Plot is building up nicely.

I can't help but notice the story parallels between Cold Steel and FC.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
BassForever said:
Early chapter 6

Oh man oh man that image of Olivier pointing a gun at the screen, I REALLY need to play Ao/Zero Xseed plz!
Click to expand...

That scene will be part of Gu4n & omgfloofy's Translation Tuesday.

It's one of my favourite moments from
3rd

Spoiler for that game which I put behind the spoiler bar :
I find it funny how Liberl has let Olivier casually utilise their national budget to do random stuff like the posse shot with Osborne and in Cold Steel, fly back home to Heimdlarr
 
C

CrazyDude

Member
Nightengale said:
That scene will be part of Gu4n & omgfloofy's Translation Tuesday.

It's one of my favourite moments from
3rd

Spoiler for that game which I put behind the spoiler bar :
I find it funny how Liberl has let Olivier casually utilise their national budget to do random stuff like the posse shot with Osborne and in Cold Steel, fly back home to Heimdlarr
Click to expand...

I am also surprised they were willing to just hand over information relating to their best airship to a nation that invaded them just ten years ago.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
CrazyDude said:
I am also surprised they were willing to just hand over information relating to their best airship to a nation that invaded them just ten years ago.
Click to expand...
Olivert isn't really acting in the greater interests of current Erebonian politics, though. He's trying to fix things. I can see why Liberl would back him, especially with his assistance in the almost-invasion during the Orbal Shutdown.
 
U

UCBooties

Member
I'm still only on Chapter 2 but I am having a great time with this. Still now word on when CS2 is coming is worrying me. I got the Vita version of the Lionheart edition and I'm worried that by the time CS2 comes out they won't bother making physical Vita versions any more! D-:
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
UCBooties said:
I'm still only on Chapter 2 but I am having a great time with this. Still now word on when CS2 is coming is worrying me. I got the Vita version of the Lionheart edition and I'm worried that by the time CS2 comes out they won't bother making physical Vita versions any more! D-:
Click to expand...

It's coming out this year. I doubt physical Vita games are going away that soon.
 
C

CrimsonFist

Member
CrazyDude said:
I am also surprised they were willing to just hand over information relating to their best airship to a nation that invaded them just ten years ago.
Click to expand...

(SC and Cold Steel)
Well they did already hand over the engine as part of the peace treaty, so it's not that big of a leap from there.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Why are there no good pictures of Comrade C on the internet? I want to post him in the best enemies of 2015 thread, but none seem to exist.
 
O

OniBarubary

Banned
Amusing note: The quest "A Rose By Any Other Name" switched it's "Quest Started!" and "Quest Completed!" messages; they show up where the other one's supposed to be.
 
C

CrimsonFist

Member
SolVanderlyn said:
Why are there no good pictures of Comrade C on the internet? I want to post him in the best enemies of 2015 thread, but none seem to exist.
Click to expand...

It's weird, Falcom's site has art for the rest of the ELF too, but no clean ones of C

There's this: http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/piimam/imgs/3/5/3515eafe.jpg

or this (slightly more spoilery) https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uowPVvfNmzA/maxresdefault.jpg

Shame I can't seem to find a clean version of that
S-break art.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
It's going to be more curious to see how Erebonia explain to the broader world [end game CS spoiler]:
how the hell they created a Glorius class airship and the mechs.

Those are IMO,
quite clearly tech above current engineering feats except for the organisation called Ouroboros
 
P

Pellegri Testament

Member
Nightengale said:
It's going to be more curious to see how Erebonia explain to the broader world [end game CS spoiler]:
how the hell they created a Glorius class airship and the mechs.

Those are IMO,
quite clearly tech above current engineering feats except for the organisation called Ouroboros
Click to expand...

I honestly thought the answer would have been obvious as to why that is.
It's clear that they've been working together for years, likely since before Crow got his mech. They have their hands in just about everything in this series, no reason to assume that the ILF hasn't gotten help from them for tech.

Also I'm going to go ahead and assume that the mech Crow is using was known about for years and that they had been waiting for him to activate it. The game seems very Xenogears inspired in that regard, where you only have select people who can be the vessels/pilots for each mech.

Unless you were wanting to know how Ouroboros is capable of creating them?
 
C

CrimsonFist

Member
Pellegri Testament said:
I honestly thought the answer would have been obvious as to why that is.
It's clear that they've been working together for years, likely since before Crow got his mech. They have their hands in just about everything in this series, no reason to assume that the ILF hasn't gotten help from them for tech.

Also I'm going to go ahead and assume that the mech Crow is using was known about for years and that they had been waiting for him to activate it. The game seems very Xenogears inspired in that regard, where you only have select people who can be the vessels/pilots for each mech.
Click to expand...

Plus SC
Strongly implied that some high ups in Erebonia at least knew about Oroborus, considering they had non-orbal powered tanks ready to invade during the shutdown phenomenon.

The part that confuses me is that
I'm sure SC said that the Blood and Iron Chancellor was responsible for that incident, but Oroborus enforcers seemed to be working with the factions who were against him in CS
 
C

CrazyDude

Member
Pellegri Testament said:
I honestly thought the answer would have been obvious as to why that is.
It's clear that they've been working together for years, likely since before Crow got his mech. They have their hands in just about everything in this series, no reason to assume that the ILF hasn't gotten help from them for tech.

Also I'm going to go ahead and assume that the mech Crow is using was known about for years and that they had been waiting for him to activate it. The game seems very Xenogears inspired in that regard, where you only have select people who can be the vessels/pilots for each mech.

Unless you were wanting to know how Ouroboros is capable of creating them?
Click to expand...

At the end Crow said he has been using his mech for the past 3 years.

CrimsonFist said:
The part that confuses me is that
I'm sure SC said that the Blood and Iron Chancellor was responsible for that incident, but Oroborus enforcers seemed to be working with the factions who were against him in CS
Click to expand...
Speculation on my part, but it is possible that the chancellor is not actually dead and it's also possible that the noble faction and the liberation front are being used by ouroboros and not given all the details.
 
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