Explain to me the difference between spinning a sword around in a circle really fast and spinning a sword around in a circle really slow, both actions are spinning the point of the blade around in a circle.
Game logic dictates both are the same, as you just pointed out. It's a silly mechanic you do to get through a puzzle.
In the real world, however, your eyes move in radically different ways when tracking a Y axis circle as opposed to a X/Z axis circle.
Tracking a "vertical" circle results in the eye making a full rotation.
Tracking a "horizontal" spin movement results in the eye panning back and forth between right and left... horizontal movement only, never a circle.
There are two ways to move the game sword in a circle, but the goal ISN'T to move the sword in a circle -- it's to get the eyeballs to move in circles.
Explain to me the difference between spinning a sword around in a circle really fast and spinning a sword around in a circle really slow, both actions are spinning the point of the blade around in a circle.
It also isn't the repetitive motion as much as it is the angle I have to twist my wrist to get the action to work correctly. There were a couple of times the motion dropped mid circle for me requiring the process to be repeated.
I guess its possible I have some rogue lightbulb or LED screwing with my Wiimote. Maybe I should try playing in the dark -.-
One motion (the actual motion to solve the puzzle) requires the eyes to go in a circle to follow what you are doing. The motion you thought should work, even though it also sends your sword in a circle, sends your sword in a circle that the eyes only have to go back and forth quickly because it really only sees a horizontal movement which doesn't necessarily make them dizzy. Doing a circle slowly displaces the eyes from center longer, causing a greater reaction to the displacement. Try it yourself.
This is my personal opinion and my personal opinion alone.
Though I admit that OoT is a good game, for the life of me I just cannot agree to the opinion of so many people that put it at the highest pedestal on which every Zelda game should aspire to reach and surpass.
I don't know, I just disagree with it. In my opinion alone Skyward Sword already manages to surpass Ocarina of Time. Hell, I even think Twilight Princess is a better game than OoT.
I think the consensus is that OOT doesn't really have any really low points. Can you think of anything bad about OOT? I can't.
Wind Waker has the shitty triforce quest and the sloooooooooooow stealth segment right off the bat. Twilight Princess has the shitty intro, Wolf Link and tear collecting. Skyward Sword has some shitty stuff too (controls don't agree with everyone, hand holding, padding). OOT really doesn't.
That being said, I think OOT has been surpassed in certain aspects. TP and SS have much better dungeons and puzzles. MM has better sidequests. I'd argue Wind Waker has a better finale, and a better art style.
But by not having a "fuck this, I'm out" moment like WW, TP, and from the sound of many posters so far, SS, OOT continues to stand the test of time very well.
Tracking a "vertical" circle results in the eye making a full rotation.
Tracking a "horizontal" spin movement results in the eye panning back and forth between right and left... horizontal movement only, never a circle.
There are two ways to move the game sword in a circle, but the goal ISN'T to move the sword in a circle -- it's to get the eyeballs to move in circles.
While the minecart thing was fun, if I tilted too much in one direction link immediatly shot to the wrong side for some reason, made me fall a few times.
Pretty annoying.
4th dungeon + boss were GREAT. I have to sit in an uncomfortable position which makes my back start to hurt after 10 or so minutes to make swimming work properly, which is not so great.
Just entered the third dungeon. Such a fantastic game, I'm eating up as many side quests as I can, I adore all the Skyloft characters. But my main concern is that so far all the lively characters with personality are segregated to the skies above, and the world below is basically made of big extended dungeons populated with scattered goofy characters who are just there to move things along but have no real soul or purpose on the same level as the human characters.
Doing this right was MM's main strength in my opinion. Not just the clock town, but in each of the four areas there were many real characters who you grew attached to and really wanted to help. In SS all the complications involved in getting to the dungeons are purely mechanical, there's no nice little local stories that involve you on an emotional level. I suppose the game makes it up by having some of the most fun Zelda gameplay ever, but that doesn't mean they should've focused on gameplay 100% once you're on the surface.
. Wow. Great design once again. I see I have finally reached the great dungeon designs everyone is talking about. I was not disappointed. Fighting
Koloktos
was so fun! When I was
using his sword to beat the shit out of him
, I felt LIKE A FUCKING BOSS. Also, I didn't mind all the backtracking, because there were new enemies and locations to discover, as well as being able to use all my toys I didn't have last time. They even made the collectathons and fetch quests FUN in this game. What the fuck are you guys so upset about?
. I really had fun stealthing around and then running like mad fuck when they spotted me. Surely I can't be the only one who actually enjoyed that part. So much better than in Twilight Princess.
. I really had fun stealthing around and then running like mad fuck when they spotted me. Surely I can't be the only one who actually enjoyed that part. So much better than in Twilight Princess.
I liked it but dreaded the next session. Then I liked that too. And since, I think, there's just one more, yeah, not an issue at all for me, just another neat challenge. I don't think of it as padding just because it uses an area you've been to since it's so differently used and having a brand new area could make it annoying since you'd have to discover the layout from scratch for the challenge, rather than use what you know and adjust to the new conditions.
. I really had fun stealthing around and then running like mad fuck when they spotted me. Surely I can't be the only one who actually enjoyed that part. So much better than in Twilight Princess.
again. The tools I had at the time made extremely short work of that and the
three stalfos
fight at the end was a great challenge. So far, there is very very little in the way of frustrating or bad moments in this game. It is definitely in contention for my favorite Zelda ever. I really think it has already surpassed Wind Waker and I still have a few more dungeons to complete.
Bloody hell, some serious over analysis going on here. I shouldn't be suprised after all, it is the GAF! Whilst the motion controls do take a bit of getting used to they clicked for me after the first dungeon. Again the graphics look jarring at first, but the second dungeon was phenomenal. Suberb graphic design and it gets better from there.
I'm not one to sit down and compare against other games, I just enjoy each game in it's own right. Much simpler that way don't seem to get disappointed like some of you.
So I only play Wii games on an SD tv and can't help but wonder why the game is in letterbox mode. I tried it on my HD tv and they were still there. Can I shut this off somehow?
the pirate ship, definitely the least interesting puzzles and stage design so far. The boss was an odd one as well. I think the second half of the desert stuff starting with the sand sea have been the least fun parts of the game for me so far.
Glad that's over now so I can proceed onto whatever is next.
So I only play Wii games on an SD tv and can't help but wonder why the game is in letterbox mode. I tried it on my HD tv and they were still there. Can I shut this off somehow?
I think he's referring to the fact the game is widescreen only, there's no 4:3 mode. Which is, sadly for people with small SD sets, true.
And yes, since that's how it is, it's best to set your Wii and TV to widescreen, leaving the black bars to the TV so that the Wii doesn't waste any of its output into them. It slightly improves image quality in this and other games like Xenoblade (most prominent in the stat comparison screens of the latter which are barely legible in 4:3 settings).
I think he's referring to the fact the game is widescreen only, there's no 4:3 mode. Which is, sadly for people with small SD sets, true.
And yes, since that's how it is, it's best to set your Wii and TV to widescreen, leaving the black bars to the TV so that the Wii doesn't waste any of its output into them. It slightly improves image quality in this and other games like Xenoblade (most prominent in the stat comparison screens of the latter which are barely legible in 4:3 settings).
I'm pretty sure I'm quite close to the end of the game, and ultimately Skyward Sword is going to be a mix of sublime, inventive gameplay and a wonderfully fresh take on Zelda, and some utterly awful inclusions that seriously drag down the overall quality for me.
If I had to give one example of the latter now, it would be Fi, and her inclusion as a forced guide/tutorial that clogs up an embarrassing portion of the game. So intrusive is she on the flow of gameplay that she single handedly lowers my perception of the entire game, and I don't doubt for a second the experience would have been notably better had she been excluded.
the pirate ship, definitely the least interesting puzzles and stage design so far. The boss was an odd one as well. I think the second half of the desert stuff starting with the sand sea have been the least fun parts of the game for me so far.
Glad that's over now so I can proceed onto whatever is next.
One of the jars (the left side) next to the stairs to the great gate inside the Sealed Temple contains a fairy. Not really sure if it's always that way but every time I busted them a fairy appears from one of them.
I'm pretty sure I'm quite close to the end of the game, and ultimately Skyward Sword is going to be a mix of sublime, inventive gameplay and a wonderfully fresh take on Zelda, and some utterly awful inclusions that seriously drag down the overall quality for me.
If I had to give one example of the latter now, it would be Fi, and her inclusion as a forced guide/tutorial that clogs up an embarrassing portion of the game. So intrusive is she on the flow of gameplay that she single handedly lowers my perception of the entire game, and I don't doubt for a second the experience would have been notably better had she been excluded.
yeah, that's the experience of a lot of people on this board, including me. fi is the single most distracting and disrupting factor in this game, closely followed (for me) by the lackluster motion combat, the disconnected overworld with too many fetch quests and the boring beginning.
The combat has never been more fun and the overworld (which I consider to include Eldin, Lanayru and Faron) has never been more fun in 3D either imo. I definitely feel the games no longer need companions though, and although enjoying some of the 'fetch' quests as you called them -
the silent realm tests specifically
- I do take a dim view of them, because I don't think they will lend well to the games' replayability.
I agree with what Feep said in the other thread... it would have been okay for this game to be shorter. Shorter != worse, sometimes it can just make the package more streamlined and replayable. There was nothing in the 2D games that I look back at with dread when replaying them, but I have a feeling that I will dread things like the
tadtones
collection on future replays. Unless of course I just find it easy, because I know where they all are...
The combat has never been more fun and the overworld (which I consider to include Eldin, Lanayru and Faron) has never been more fun in 3D either imo. I definitely feel the games no longer need companions though, and although enjoying some of the 'fetch' quests as you called them -
the silent realm tests specifically
- I do take a dim view of them, because I don't think they will lend well to the games' replayability.
I agree with what Feep said in the other thread... it would have been okay for this game to be shorter. Shorter != worse, sometimes it can just make the package more streamlined and replayable. There was nothing in the 2D games that I look back at with dread when replaying them, but I have a feeling that I will dread things like the
tadtones
collection on future replays. Unless of course I just find it easy, because I know where they all are...
fetch quests or padding. they didn't bother me and i thought they were a welcome change of pace. and despite being lukewarm on the motion combat, i never ONCE had a problem with the flying controls (they worked perfectly for me and i enjoyed flying) or any other motion controlled item (well, except for the bombs from time to time).
yeah, that's the experience of a lot of people on this board, including me. fi is the single most distracting and disrupting factor in this game, closely followed (for me) by the lackluster motion combat, the disconnected overworld with too many fetch quests and the boring beginning.
I've got mixed feelings towards most of that, though by large still love it. I don't really have any problem with the disconnected overworld (and strongly disagree with people who try to argue it is linear), and enjoy a majority of the motion combat (I'll touch on that later). The fetch quests are another killer though and feel like a really cheap way of extending the game with no real substance.
But yeah, the boring beginning (and so much afterwards) would be far less boring if Fi was just scrapped. She is by far the worst hand holding mechanism of any Zelda game that has ever been released, and I'd argue the worst of any major Nintendo game in recent memory. It's baffling how Mario, Metroid and even past Zelda games have done a great job of teaching through gameplay, visual clues and subtle hints, yet Skyward Sword has Fi literally spell it out. And worst of all, she ends up spelling out tons of blatantly obvious shit multiple times.
From memory I'm pretty sure in the fifth dungeon she again made note of the boss door and the likelihood of something important behind it. She was definitely doing it in the fourth.
On the better side of things, I thought the
silent realm
sections were fantastic. Lots and lots of fun, and Zelda finally getting stealth 'right', mostly because unlike
Twilight Princess they don't serve as a means of teaching you the environment through fetch quests, but challenge your knowledge of an environment you're already familiar with.
Just played over an hour and a half and I'm finding it fun. I really like the characters and the art. Awesome stuff!
However, I'm still new to Zelda so I'm not really used to Z-targeting nor the camera. I hope I'll soon learn to manage them properly with more game time.
The game in its original version is stupidly easy, especially coming off ALttP which, while not Nintendo-hard, at least was challenging enough to keep you wary of enemy positioning. Also it started the trend of focusing less on combat and more on puzzle-solving, which may not necessarily be a fault depending on what you like about Zelda.
I'm pretty sure I'm quite close to the end of the game, and ultimately Skyward Sword is going to be a mix of sublime, inventive gameplay and a wonderfully fresh take on Zelda, and some utterly awful inclusions that seriously drag down the overall quality for me.
At least Navi was option, and I too never hated Navi. Fi is a combination of Navi's parenting and the Owl's unskippable, long winded dialogue. Yes Fi, I know this is a boss door. I know this from the several Zelda games I have beaten, and the four or so I have opened in this game alone. Please shut up about them.
DO YOU WANT TO LEARN ABOUT DOWSING AGAIN EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR THE LAST THREE HOURS? NO? ARE YOU SURE?
I've got mixed feelings towards most of that, though by large still love it. I don't really have any problem with the disconnected overworld (and strongly disagree with people who try to argue it is linear), and enjoy a majority of the motion combat (I'll touch on that later). The fetch quests are another killer though and feel like a really cheap way of extending the game with no real substance.
But yeah, the boring beginning (and so much afterwards) would be far less boring if Fi was just scrapped. She is by far the worst hand holding mechanism of any Zelda game that has ever been released, and I'd argue the worst of any major Nintendo game in recent memory. It's baffling how Mario, Metroid and even past Zelda games have done a great job of teaching through gameplay, visual clues and subtle hints, yet Skyward Sword has Fi literally spell it out. And worst of all, she ends up spelling out tons of blatantly obvious shit multiple times.
From memory I'm pretty sure in the fifth dungeon she again made note of the boss door and the likelihood of something important behind it. She was definitely doing it in the fourth.
On the better side of things, I thought the
silent realm
sections were fantastic. Lots and lots of fun, and Zelda finally getting stealth 'right', mostly because unlike
Twilight Princess they don't serve as a means of teaching you the environment through fetch quests, but challenge your knowledge of an environment you're already familiar with.
i don't know how you could possibly argue that this game and the progression through its world is anything but painfully linear. the maps offer minimal possibility for exploration, which is usually immediately taken away from you, usually by fi spelling out exactly where to go or how to proceed. there is always ever ONE specific thing you have to do, one place you need to go to and the game makes sure without fail you KNOW what that is. it's always point A to B.
I miss the strafing dodge-roll of lightning speed. Just coming at all enemies head-on over and over and slashing them in the designated kill point has taken even more dynamism away from Zelda combat.
I also hate all waggle stuff assigned to the nunchuck, most notably rolling.
I also agree that flying is just boring. For a game with a sky setting, its really quite amazing how completely bare and lacking of any gameplay interest that layer of the game is.
Despite it being 5 years or whatever, this very much feels like a rushed Zelda with padded content thrown in to disguise the fact.
She speaks too slow, she's useless and I never bother reading what she says. I don't get the hate either, for some it seems to ruin their enjoyment. Tiny annoyance AFAIC.
i don't know how you could possibly argue that this game and the progression through its world is anything but painfully linear. the maps offer minimal possibility for exploration, which is usually immediately taken away from you, usually by fi spelling out exactly where to go or how to proceed. there is always ever ONE specific thing you have to do, one place you need to go to and the game makes sure without fail you KNOW what that is. it's always point A to B.
Aren't the main quests always a bit like that? There's not a lot of sequence breaking in Zelda games. After meeting with Faron, I think you can meet the other dragons in any order, and after the first one or two sidequests, you can do those in pretty much any order or take multiple requests on too... it's definitely not the worst 3D Zelda in terms of linearity.
i don't know how you could possibly argue that this game and the progression through its world is anything but painfully linear. the maps offer minimal possibility for exploration, which is usually immediately taken away from you, usually by fi spelling out exactly where to go or how to proceed. there is always ever ONE specific thing you have to do, one place you need to go to and the game makes sure without fail you KNOW what that is. it's always point A to B.
Because I don't think that is anything different from past Zelda games. Hyrule field in both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess (especially the latter) is a series of open areas connected by linear, tunnelled entry/exit points. Skyward Sword's areas are a little bit smaller, but still mostly just as 'open' and free to explore as the latter.
I'd argue that the only truly open overworld of any of the 3D Zelda games is Wind Waker, as you can literally go in any direction at any point in time and enter locations from multiple angles. No matter how open Hyrule Field seems you're still funnelled to the same points and the same bridges.
The often poor questing structure of Skyward Sword hurts the perception of the disconnected overworld, and being disconnected in general makes it seem smaller. And yeah, okay, some areas of the overworld are basically pointless to revisit unless you absolutely have to on a quest. But that being said, the main areas of each of the three overworld sections are, in my opinion, just as open yet more densely packed than any single section of Hyrule Field in Twilight Princess.
Linear to me implies being forced to go A to B with no divergence from a set path. This don't agree this happens as often as some people are making it out to be, and when it does happen it is a consequence of the bad questing and not the environments themselves.
put another couple hours into it. did some sidequests and then pre-3. i think that the reviews had it all wrong: the overworld is just the sky, and everything on land is the dungeon, with mini-dungeons within them. i can't remember anything like this in tww or tp.
i'm playing without acknowledging fi or using dowsing, which is making it feel like an actual zelda game instead of a beatles song. the fire signal thing threw me, because i went around the building looking for a switch to open the door... and i didn't even think to go up to it and just open it.
I miss the strafing dodge-roll of lightning speed. Just coming at all enemies head-on over and over and slashing them in the designated kill point has taken even more dynamism away from Zelda combat.
I also hate all waggle stuff assigned to the nunchuck, most notably rolling.
Sprinting has changed the need for much of that. You can scale the fascades of the large Bokoblins and attack them from behind, there are parries and new varieties of spin attack, skyward strikes... that is aside from the new attack options that proper motion controlled swordplay introduces. This game ADDS dynamism to Zelda combat, it doesn't take anything away from it.
And when do you even need to roll now? Its used to knock things off shelves and out of trees... and that's it. I'm glad too, rolling everywhere in previous 3D games for that little bit of extra speed was dumb.
At least Navi was option, and I too never hated Navi. Fi is a combination of Navi's parenting and the Owl's unskippable, long winded dialogue. Yes Fi, I know this is a boss door. I know this from the several Zelda games I have beaten, and the four or so I have opened in this game alone. Please shut up about them.
DO YOU WANT TO LEARN ABOUT DOWSING AGAIN EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR THE LAST THREE HOURS? NO? ARE YOU SURE?
i don't know how you could possibly argue that this game and the progression through its world is anything but painfully linear. the maps offer minimal possibility for exploration, which is usually immediately taken away from you, usually by fi spelling out exactly where to go or how to proceed. there is always ever ONE specific thing you have to do, one place you need to go to and the game makes sure without fail you KNOW what that is. it's always point A to B.
So I got the game on monday and I have played a bit (don't have much time, I'm at the first temple). So far I must admit the controls aren't clicking with me, I don't know why but even a bokoblin gives me trouble and I end up wondering how I finally got him when I kill him. Skulltulas are worse.
Maybe it'll get better later, but I don't know what I'm doing wrong... (I'm not waggling by the way) This is the first time motion controls gave me trouble and I feel bad about it because I haven't been enjoying the combat much due to it :/
