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[MidnightCowboy]

I'm still not understanding the Fi hate. The only annoying thing she does is alert me that my health is low.

 

[jarosh]

Because I don't think that is anything different from past Zelda games. Hyrule field in both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess (especially the latter) is a series of open areas connected by linear, tunnelled entry/exit points. Skyward Sword's areas are a little bit smaller, but still mostly just as 'open' and free to explore as the latter.

I'd argue that the only truly open overworld of any of the 3D Zelda games is Wind Waker, as you can literally go in any direction at any point in time and enter locations from multiple angles. No matter how open Hyrule Field seems you're still funnelled to the same points and the same bridges.

The often poor questing structure of Skyward Sword hurts the perception of the disconnected overworld, and being disconnected in general makes it seem smaller. And yeah, okay, some areas of the overworld are basically pointless to revisit unless you absolutely have to on a quest. But that being said, the main areas of each of the three overworld sections are, in my opinion, just as open yet more densely packed than any single section of Hyrule Field in Twilight Princess.

Linear to me implies being forced to go A to B with no divergence from a set path. This don't agree this happens as often as some people are making it out to be, and when it does happen it is a consequence of the bad questing and not the environments themselves.

there may only be one or two ways to progress in oot (for example) at any given time, but you have to figure out how to get there or where those locations are by yourself. that's the difference. and you have to talk to different characters or follow specific hints (that you also have to find first). in skyward sword there is fi and she makes sure you know exactly where to go or what to do at all times. this in conjunction with the splintered overworld makes for a very linear experience. the overworld on its own, without fi, might not be so bad, if you could find out on your own what to do, but that is taken away from you.

 

[RagnarokX]

Why does it matter that the world is disconnected? What would having connecting paths do? It's like complaining if Konami made a new metroidvania and you warped from area to area instead of walking down a loading hallway. I think the real issue is you just want more areas, but I think this game has some of the most satisfying non-dungeon areas in the series.

Central fields in 3D Zeldas always suck. OoT, MM, TP; all of them were boring. The interesting areas are the areas that the fields connected to; the stuff that's still in SS. I mean seriously:

The only difference is you're flying from place to place instead of running through a big empty field. The places you go to, the places that are actually interesting in every Zelda game, are bigger and more complex than they've ever been.

 

[Alexios]

put another couple hours into it. did some sidequests and then pre-3. i think that the reviews had it all wrong: the overworld is just the sky, and everything on land is the dungeon, with mini-dungeons within them. i can't remember anything like this in tww or tp.

Spoiler

i'm playing without acknowledging fi or using dowsing, which is making it feel like an actual zelda game instead of a beatles song. the fire signal thing threw me, because i went around the building looking for a switch to open the door... and i didn't even think to go up to it and just open it.

That's how I think of it too. Very Metroid-like game, with the sky area being there just to connect the parts (and some side quest and other extra content) instead of the spaceship in Metroid Prime 3 or whatever. The world under the clouds is all dungeon style gameplay, whether it's outdoor or indoor you have the same sort of environmental and other challenges as in a dungeon. I love the design of all the areas so far, making shortcuts as you go through them and seeing all the variety despite fears of "too much brown" I had. That said, I have no issues with dowsing. It doesn't negatively affect the game whether you use it or not. It just shows you something, the further away the more vague it is too, you still have to use the same skills and tools to actually reach what you need. Not sure why so many people seem to have expected this to be an open world game, contrary to most other Zelda games... Was it advertised as such or something? I missed it. It's a great game, but not an open world one.

 

[jarosh]

Dowsing sucks shit and the game is all the better if you choose to never do it!

Don't dowse! Seriously, it's great for exploration!

i never have. in fact, i was the first person in this thread to tell people not to dowse when they get the game and that was 1 1/2 weeks ago. even without dowsing it's always obvious where to go. i was never once lost or found myself in an interesting, unknown location because of that.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Sprinting has changed the need for much of that. You can scale the fascades of the large Bokoblins and attack them from behind, there are parries and new varieties of spin attack, skyward strikes... that is aside from the new attack options that proper motion controlled swordplay introduces. This game ADDS dynamism to Zelda combat, it doesn't take anything away from it.

And when do you even need to roll now? Its used to knock things off shelves and out of trees... and that's it. I'm glad too, rolling everywhere in previous 3D games for that little bit of extra speed was dumb.

Nonsense. All combat is just head-on slashy slashy, the only difference being when i clamber up over a biggen, clumsily refocus the camera with Z and then waggle slash away on its butt. With all the hopping and rolling of previous newer 3d outings, combat environments were a lot more fluid, also helping to engage lots of enemies at once. Thrusting also seems to the one sword command that just doesnt work most of the time. Have been gaming in the pitch black the last couple of nights and its improved, but when a different move comes out than what I'm intending its just infuriating, particularly whenever the stabbing of eyes/weakpoints is required.

If Dark Souls had more intricate dungeons and gadgets to be used for traversal, that to me would be the perfect progression of the action rpg overworld/Zelda formula, not speaking of its grimdark art design, but rather all of its interconnectedness.

 

[EatChildren]

there may only be one or two ways to progress in oot (for example) at any given time, but you have to figure out how to get there or where those locations are by yourself. that's the difference. and you have to talk to different characters or follow specific hints (that you also have to find first). in skyward sword there is fi and she makes sure you know exactly where to go or what to do at all times. this in conjunction with the splintered overworld makes for a very linear experience. the overworld on its own, without fi, might not be so bad, if you could find out on your own what to do, but that is taken away from you.

Right, and as I said I feel this is a problem with the questing design and not the levels themselves. Fi doesn't just spell shit out in the overworlds, she even does it in dungeons. She ruins everything constantly.

But I don't feel that linearity is always present in the actual overworld design, and I do feel in the right context most of the overworld allows for some freedom of exploration no less than other non-Wind Waker Zelda games. The barren sky world also probably contributes to this problem, which is a shame as I really love flying, free falling, and the atmosphere of Skyloft.

In fact, I'd love to see a Zelda game that sticks it to an underworld and instead takes the Wind Waker approach of a big, open world only set in the sky like Skyward Sword. Lots of floating islands to visit and mountains reaching above the clouds.

 

[Schlomo]

I'm sure there was discussion about this before somewhere in this megathread, but I can't find the answer: Why does automatic recalibration via sensor bar only work for the sword and not for the pointer? I can't think of a reason.

 

[Regulus Tera]

i never have. in fact, i was the first person in this thread to tell people not to dowse when they get the game and that was 1 1/2 weeks ago. even without dowsing it's always obvious where to go. i was never once lost or found myself in an interesting, unknown location because of that.

There is not much liberty for you to dick around in the world, I will agree on that.

Why does it matter that the world is disconnected? What would having connecting paths do? It's like complaining if Konami made a new metroidvania and you warped from area to area instead of walking down a loading hallway. I think the real issue is you just want more areas, but I think this game has some of the most satisfying non-dungeon areas in the series.

Central fields in 3D Zeldas always suck. OoT, MM, TP; all of them were boring. The interesting areas are the areas that the fields connected to; the stuff that's still in SS. I mean seriously:

http://i.imgur.com/KU8uJ.jpg

The only difference is you're flying from place to place instead of running through a big empty field. The places you go to, the places that are actually interesting in every Zelda game, are bigger and more complex than they've ever been.

The illusion of freedom is what people miss with this game, and that has always been a central part of Zelda. Even the 3D iterations were very efficient in sparking that feeling in the player.

 

[radioheadrule83]

So I got the game on monday and I have played a bit (don't have much time, I'm at the first temple). So far I must admit the controls aren't clicking with me, I don't know why but even a bokoblin gives me trouble and I end up wondering how I finally got him when I kill him. Skulltulas are worse.

Maybe it'll get better later, but I don't know what I'm doing wrong... (I'm not waggling by the way) This is the first time motion controls gave me trouble and I feel bad about it because I haven't been enjoying the combat much due to it :/

Do you have a shield and did you do the sword training? Or did you rush into the main meat of the game?

As with anything, its about practice, and if you can get into it, you'll really appreciate it I think. The trick to a lot of sword combat is to not strike until there's an opening, and you can create openings by 'telegraphing' what you are going to do or faking out the opponent. So, for example, if you see an enemy guarding his left, strike from the right... point your sword to the right until you see an enemy guard his right, then strike from the left. Not all enemies are that dumb later in the game and some come armed with other defences, but that much advice should certainly help with those guys...

as for the skulltula, strike them with a horizontal blow to send them spinning, and make sure you have a shield - if they spin towards you, you can defend yourself with it. They settle into a swing with their belly explosed, jab forwards to hit them a couple of times and they're done. When you've knocked them down from a web, or they're just already on the ground, do an upwards strike to flip them onto their backs and end with a final blow.

 

[EatChildren]

The illusion of freedom is what people miss with this game, and that has always been a central part of Zelda. Even the 3D iterations were very efficient in sparking that feeling in the player.

This is the phrase I was looking for. The illusion of freedom is hurt by the way the game presents itself, but by large I don't feel it is functionally less free than Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. As said, Wind Waker is the only 3D Zelda I feel has a truly open overworld. Everything else is a series of 'open' hubs connected by linear chokepoints.

 

[Alexios]

I'm sure there was discussion about this before somewhere in this megathread, but I can't find the answer: Why does automatic recalibration via sensor bar only work for the sword and not for the pointer? I can't think of a reason.

Not much good reason. Side effects are you could aim the bow/slingshot/whatever like you do in Wii Sports Resort, holding the remote mimicing the actual tool instead of pointing it, since the center point of the aiming function is the initial position you hold the remote rather than the actual center of the sensor bar, but yeah, I too would prefer sensor bar based pointing that would function the same every time rather than require me to first center my aim, then push the button, to get the feel close to my expectations, which is slower than being able to aim to any corner of the screen before even pressing the button and have it point there reliably in the same exact way every time as soon as you do press it. It's much speedier than the settings they've used in SS too normally.

Edit: guess I never got that illusion of freedom others experienced in the past, it was always pretty transparent to me, hence I have less issues with SS being all dungeons.

 

[RagnarokX]

There is not much liberty for you to dick around in the world, I will agree on that.

The illusion of freedom is what people miss with this game, and that has always been a central part of Zelda. Even the 3D iterations were very efficient in sparking that feeling in the player.

How does SS not have the illusion of freedom? You can fly! Hell, why do people love warps so much? Because the central fields suck and people want to be able to skip from interesting area to interesting area.

I much prefer SS' method of getting me from place to place than running slowly across a vast empty field or riding a cumbersome horse. Aiming for boost islands is really addictive.

 

[MidnightCowboy]

put another couple hours into it. did some sidequests and then pre-3. i think that the reviews had it all wrong: the overworld is just the sky, and everything on land is the dungeon, with mini-dungeons within them. i can't remember anything like this in tww or tp.

It's for this exact reason I think Skyward Sword will end up being my favorite Zelda. It's not just a matter of walking to a dungeon anymore.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I'm getting flashbacks to when people used to try and argue that Metroid Fusion wasn't really any more linear than Super Metroid. Of course, that assertion is categorically, quantifiably false. On that note, unless something changes dramatically after the 3rd dungeon OoT grants the player considerably more leeway in terms of what side quests, dungeons, and items are available to pursue at any given time than Skyward Sword. And that's not to say OoT is non-linear in the strictest sense of the term. There are still certain bottlenecks where you have to acquire a specific item to pass, but there are also a lot of instances where entire dungeons/mini dungeons can be tackled in different orders. By contrast, Skyward Sword is always funneling you along a single pre-determined path. It's all well and good if that gels with your taste as a gamer, but that doesn't magically make the game any less linear than it is.

 

[radioheadrule83]

OOT isn't non-linear, it's just possible to sequence break a little. You can get away with not having the hover boots and megaton hammer for certain sections of the game for example, or you could get the main item in a dungeon and go do another before completing it for example -- but you'd still have to go back there to get the sage medallion in order to get to Ganon's castle so why would you do that? There is still very much a delineated order in which you are meant to do things. As I said earlier, I haven't verified this, but

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure you can visit either dragon in any order after Faron, and those makeup pretty large sections of gameplay (a trial for each a dungeon for each)...

and as in other games, apart from the first sidequest, you can do pretty much any of the extra stuff in any order too.

I'm sure there was discussion about this before somewhere in this megathread, but I can't find the answer: Why does automatic recalibration via sensor bar only work for the sword and not for the pointer? I can't think of a reason.

My guess:

they know the sword will invariably pass the sensor bar in a lot of instances, and keeping it in sync as much as possible keeps the appearance of 1:1 tracking in tact -- when it comes to actual sword slashes, these are triggered by the vectors and velocities of your Wii remote gestures, so its not really important for that purpose. If it accidentally picks up a light source around or near your TV it doesn't matter so much as the vectors to trigger the sword movements are likely to be similar or the same.

In first person aiming, if they constantly and automatically tracked the sensor bar such extra light sources might cause a glitchy cursor, which *would* be a problem. Additionally, this method allows you to effectively define center yourself, if you define it while pointing the Wii remote downward, you have greater degrees of vertical movement available to you to work through when aiming upwards... and vice versa or equivalent for any other given direction. Its the kind of scheme that might not work well for an FPS, but in this context, it works quite well when you understand how it works imo.

 

[Sinthetic]

I don't think anyone could consider themselves a true fan of the game if they don't own a copy of this:

152 pages of high quality content by Wikipedia articles, all for the low, low price of £42!

You are joking right? I think most people would go for the Collector's Edition guide.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

So even though I'm not a fan of some parts, I really like it so far.

I'm wondering though, how do you take out stuff in your pouch to make room for new items? This has been bugging me.

 

[zoukka]

There is no illusion of freedom, because you don't really have a choice. You know that investigating island XYZ is useless, because you haven't unlocked the treasure there.

Yeah the treasure boxes are retarded.

 

[radioheadrule83]

So even though I'm not a fan of some parts, I really like it so far.

I'm wondering though, how do you take out stuff in your pouch to make room for new items? This has been bugging me.

Visit the bored looking item-check girl in the Bazaar. You can also sell stuff to her.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

So even though I'm not a fan of some parts, I really like it so far.

I'm wondering though, how do you take out stuff in your pouch to make room for new items? This has been bugging me.

There's a girl at the bazaar that stores items and lets you switch them out.

edit: beaten

 

[RagnarokX]

Illusion of freedom requires - to me - exploration and having to find your own way to something, which is mostly absent from SS. There's a few islands, most of them are barren, others have a few treasure chests and the game TELLS YOU when you can get those and the rest are mini-games.

Furthermore your progress in the game specifies which quests you can do and the game then often tells you specifically what you have to do. If you look e.g. at OoT, there were plenty of heart pieces where it wasn't always 100% clear when or how to get those and many were well-hidden. A lot of it is missing in this game.

There is no illusion of freedom, because you don't really have a choice. You know that investigating island XYZ is useless, because you haven't unlocked the treasure there.

I'm not sure how this is different from any other 3D Zelda. They just got rid of the big boring empty connecting field and made the interesting parts bigger and more interesting. There are lots of things laying around the world for you to wonder about how to get to. I even got a few goddess cubes and stuff in ways that weren't intended by the design:

Spoiler

skydived from the great tree to reach areas that normally would require clawshots.

 

[EatChildren]

I'm getting flashbacks to when people used to try and argue that Metroid Fusion wasn't really any more linear than Super Metroid. Of course, that assertion is categorically, quantifiably false. On that note, unless something changes dramatically after the 3rd dungeon OoT grants the player considerably more leeway in terms of what side quests, dungeons, and items are available to pursue at any given time than Skyward Sword. And that's not to say OoT is non-linear in the strictest sense of the term. There are still certain bottlenecks where you have to acquire a specific item to pass, but there are also a lot of instances where entire dungeons/mini dungeons can be tackled in different orders. By contrast, Skyward Sword is always funneling you along a single pre-determined path. It's all well and good if that gels with your taste as a gamer, but that doesn't magically make the game any less linear than it is.

If I recall correctly the first three dungeons of Ocarina of Time must be done in strict order, no different from Skyward Sword, so your comparison there probably isn't all that appropriate. Not that Skyward Sword doesn't have linear progression, but you won't be able to judge the linearity of the game until you've finished it. As the game progresses you're given the freedom to do sidequests in any order, and one late game trio of objectives can also (to my knowledge) be completed in any order.

 

[Metroid Killer]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZqsoZFWkL._SS500_.jpg[IMG]

152 pages of high quality content by Wikipedia articles, all for the low, low price of £42![/QUOTE]Such lazy work across the whole field. Boring cover with a picture of a Dual Shock controller... what? And wikipedia articles? what articles are there of SS on wikipedia other than the main entry? Can't beleive anyone would buy this.

 

[jarosh]

As I said earlier, I haven't verified this, but I'm pretty sure you can

Spoiler

visit either dragon in any order after Faron, and those makeup pretty large sections of gameplay (a trial for each a dungeon for each)

... and as in other games, apart from the first sidequest, you can do pretty much any of the extra stuff in any order too.

spoiler tags! christ, use them!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32914237&postcount=6901

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Thanks guys!

 

[Sinthetic]

Such lazy work across the whole field. Boring cover with a picture of a Dual Shock controller... what? And wikipedia articles? what articles are there of SS on wikipedia other than the main entry? Can't beleive anyone would buy this.

Total joke, £42 too.

I'm sure the post was tongue in cheek.

 

[Refreshment.01]

The game in its original version is stupidly easy, especially coming off ALttP which, while not Nintendo-hard, at least was challenging enough to keep you wary of enemy positioning. Also it started the trend of focusing less on combat and more on puzzle-solving, which may not necessarily be a fault depending on what you like about Zelda.

Ocarina of Time had an excuse to be easy. It was the first transiton to a full 3D world for the franchise and it came in a time where 3D action gameplay wasn't yet perfected.

It's for this exact reason I think Skyward Sword will end up being my favorite Zelda. It's not just a matter of walking to a dungeon anymore.

Not all Zelda games were a "matter of walking to a dungeon". What this game does is apply the type of progression and traversal executed in a dungeon to the more or less overworld areas. Past Zelda games have a certain "proceeding" before reaching a them, in those cases it just that the activity felt more ditached than the type you have in a dungeon area.

I.E. to reach "Snow Peak" the user had to navigate a blizzard and snowboard its way to the Mansion. That felt really different to the things you do in a dungeon. So some people might prefer the old way, what we have in Skyward has some pros but some cons also.

 

[EatChildren]

On the subject of difficulty, though I might not be finished I haven't died once. So yeah, the game is stupid easy.

 

[Jocchan]

[Post-dungeon 6 spoilers]

As I said earlier, I haven't verified this, but I'm pretty sure you can visit

Spoiler

either dragon in any order after Faron

, and those makeup pretty large sections of gameplay (a trial for each a dungeon for each)... and as in other games, apart from the first sidequest, you can do pretty much any of the extra stuff in any order too.

You can visit

Spoiler

each dragon in any order. I did Faron -> Eldin -> Lanayru, a friend of mine did Lanayru first.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

If I recall correctly the first three dungeons of Ocarina of Time must be done in strict order, no different from Skyward Sword, so your comparison there probably isn't all that appropriate. Not that Skyward Sword doesn't have linear progression, but you won't be able to judge the linearity of the game until you've finished it. As the game progresses you're given the freedom to do sidequests in any order, and one late game trio of objectives can also (to my knowledge) be completed in any order.

I purposely qualified my statement when I noted my current progression (at the third dungeon). I would be very happy if the game opened up considerably as it wore on, but I haven't gotten any real glimmer of that yet. My experience with the side quests so far has been a bit underwhelming as well, mostly because they make you simply go back and forth without any real gameplay variation (most seem to simply be talk to character A, then character B, then character A again), and the rewards haven't been particularly exciting or useful. Again, perhaps that all changes, but based on what I've played thus far I remain skeptical.

On the subject of difficulty, though I might not be finished I haven't died once. So yeah, the game is stupid easy.

Interestingly, I think the combat difficulty is one of the most improved aspects of the game over recent entries (in spite of staring off with 6 hearts). Not that it's terribly difficult, but even common enemies can be quick to react and generally it demands being more engaged at any given time than WW or TP. You're actually docked for not paying attention, something that WW and TP sorely lacked imo.

 

[Metroid Killer]

On the subject of difficulty, though I might not be finished I haven't died once. So yeah, the game is stupid easy.

Still 'modern Zelda easy' yes, but overall it seems like Nintendo at least took some baby steps in the right direction this time, by taking half a heart as minimum damage.

I don't know about if the Puzzle difficulty is more or less the same as it has been in the last few entries.

 

[Cosmic Schwung]

You are joking right? I think most people would go for the Collector's Edition guide.

It's not a guide. It's literally a collection of wikipedia articles on Skyward Sword and things loosely related to it edited into a book...for just £42!

It's basically a step above fraud. The publisher, Betascript, are infamous for this but for some reason Amazon are still willing to sell them.

 

[Refreshment.01]

If I recall correctly the first three dungeons of Ocarina of Time must be done in strict order, no different from Skyward Sword, so your comparison there probably isn't all that appropriate. Not that Skyward Sword doesn't have linear progression, but you won't be able to judge the linearity of the game until you've finished it. As the game progresses you're given the freedom to do sidequests in any order, and one late game trio of objectives can also (to my knowledge) be completed in any order.

Man, Grotesquebeauty has a point and it's easy to understand. Even if both games have very strict and linear elements, one game is definitly more linear than the other. It's that simple.

 

[Sinthetic]

It's not a guide. It's literally a collection of wikipedia articles on Skyward Sword and things loosely related to it edited into a book...for just £42!

It's basically a step above fraud. The publisher, Betascript, are infamous for this but for some reason Amazon are still willing to sell them.

Definitely! I knew you were being sarcastic.

 

[EatChildren]

Man, Grotesquebeauty has a point and it's easy to understand. Even if both games have very strict and linear elements, one game is definitly more linear than the other. It's that simple.

And I didn't disagree so I guess that makes us all hunky dory.

 

[jonno394]

I've been playing Zelda for 20 odd years and i've died about 5 times during my play through up until pre-6.

That being said, I play Zelda for the overall experience so ease/difficult is not that big a deal to me, and in that aspect I am extremely happy with the title.

 

[Ydahs]

Hmm, it appears that there are... scanlines? I dunno, but there seems to be horizontal lines running across the screen, only really apparent at some points. Looks wonderful otherwise.

 

[Chao]

I'm pretty sure I'm quite close to the end of the game, and ultimately Skyward Sword is going to be a mix of sublime, inventive gameplay and a wonderfully fresh take on Zelda, and some utterly awful inclusions that seriously drag down the overall quality for me.

If I had to give one example of the latter now, it would be Fi, and her inclusion as a forced guide/tutorial that clogs up an embarrassing portion of the game. So intrusive is she on the flow of gameplay that she single handedly lowers my perception of the entire game, and I don't doubt for a second the experience would have been notably better had she been excluded.

I know that feeling bro.
I've never cared about previous partners in 3d zelda games (save Midna who I actually loved as a character) but I definetly get mad every time Fi opens her mouth.
Why in the world did they think that stopping the game to let her give you completely useless advice was a good idea? I am about to open the door and then she stops the fucking game and she goes "master, there's a 80% chance you will find monsters behind this door, I suggest to procced with caution"
Really? Monsters like the ones I've been fighting in this very room? Oh ok. Thanks I guess.
Wait the Fi icon is still flashing and it makes a very fucking annoying sound, maybe she has something important to say, crucial to the development of the story "master your batteries are low, i suggest you replace them with new ones" I FUCKING KNOW, there's a big ass red icon in the bottom of the screen with an universal low battery picture, that's enough information for me and by the way, you've been telling me the batteries are dead for the last 4 hours, maybe you should wait a little longer to bother me with this.

Also, she is the worst character to have her

Spoiler

singing and dancing

since she is just a robot with the charm of a rock.

But SS has many other issues, it's not just Fi. I'm in the last dungeon and I feel I won't be replaying this game anytime soon, as much as I loved a big part of the game (specially the meat of it, the dungeons) there are a lot of little things that I don't want to deal with again.

For a game that has been in development for 5 years I expected something more, honestly.

 

[-Winnie-]

I asked before, but I don't think I got a response.

How strongly is this game tied to OoT story-wise? I never finished OoT back in the day and I'm not sure whether I should play this before finishing OoT. :/

 

[Metroid Killer]

It's not a guide. It's literally a collection of wikipedia articles on Skyward Sword and things loosely related to it edited into a book...for just £42!

It's basically a step above fraud. The publisher, Betascript, are infamous for this but for some reason Amazon are still willing to sell them.

Yeah it all seems rather shady. Every book they have available only uses stock photos, wiki articles and yeah basically whatever free content they can fit inside. But apparently it's all legal to do. Still weird that Amazon allows them on its site.

A site that goes into detail

 

[Regulus Tera]

How does SS not have the illusion of freedom? You can fly! Hell, why do people love warps so much? Because the central fields suck and people want to be able to skip from interesting area to interesting area.

I'm not sure how this is different from any other 3D Zelda. They just got rid of the big boring empty connecting field and made the interesting parts bigger and more interesting.

That boring empty connecting field is what implied the freedom we are talking about. It hints a an interconnected land where stages are not just Mega Man levels, but actual environments that each fill a certain niche in the game's world.

Ocarina of Time had an excuse to be easy. It was the first transiton to a full 3D world for the franchise and it came in a time where 3D action gameplay wasn't yet perfected.

Excusing a game's flaw is admitting that game's flaw.

 

[Reknoc]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure you can visit either dragon in any order after Faron, and those makeup pretty large sections of gameplay (a trial for each a dungeon for each)...

Spoiler

After Faron? You mean the song part? Because I'm about to do Faron last.

 

[Metroid Killer]

I asked before, but I don't think I got a response.

How strongly is this game tied to OoT story-wise? I never finished OoT back in the day and I'm not sure whether I should play this before finishing OoT. :/

Almost nothing at all.

 

[Electivirus]

Holy SHIT, the cutscene after the third dungeon. So GOOD. And then

Spoiler

Groose shows up?!

WHAAAAT?! Oh god, this is the funniest thing ever.

 

[cajunator]

I actually think from the three main areas I've seen so far in this game, that the environments are just as if not more exciting and interesting than anything in any Zelda overworld of any of the 3D games. No other overworld or map area in any other Zelda game contained so many puzzles and dungeon-like elements as I've seen in the Skyward Sword. Now I know that the areas themselves are not connected directly, but if you think about it, neither are overworlds in the other games. they were always separated by cutscenes, long corridors, and doorways. It wasn't truly connected and hasn't been since the 2D games. I am cool with this. I still have a sense that this Skyward Sword overworld is cohesive in a way, because of the beams of light and certain elements of the game that continually present the entire map region as a whole place, even though you cant see the surface below the clouds. You still sense that there IS a viable world down there and that it is part of the same world that exists above the clouds. At least that illusion works for me.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I must be really bad or something. This is the only 3D Zelda that I've needed to use potions in. Also, I feel like I'm always running low of hearts, especially one bosses and sub-bosses.

It's worth noting that I intentionally avoid using the heart medal.

 

[jonno394]

I actually think from the three main areas I've seen so far in this game, that the environments are just as if not more exciting and interesting than anything in any Zelda overworld of any of the 3D games. No other overworld or map area in any other Zelda game contained so many puzzles and dungeon-like elements as I've seen in the Skyward Sword. Now I know that the areas themselves are not connected directly, but if you think about it, neither are overworlds in the other games. they were always separated by cutscenes, long corridors, and doorways. It wasn't truly connected and hasn't been since the 2D games. I am cool with this. I still have a sense that this Skyward Sword overworld is cohesive in a way, because of the beams of light and certain elements of the game that continually present the entire map region as a whole place, even though you cant see the surface below the clouds. You still sense that there IS a viable world down there and that it is part of the same world that exists above the clouds. At least that illusion works for me.

I concur with your comments but I can also see where people are coming from saying it lacks cohesion. The fact is, in every previous game, you could walk all the way from one point to another (say from Gerudo Fortress to Kokiri forest in OOT or Lake Hylia to Kakariko in TP etc) in an interconnected map whereas in this you cant, if you want to go from The Sacred Tempe to Edlin Volcano you have to warp up to the sky, fly to another dropdown, then drop down.

I like it though, and SS is definitely in my top 3, how it progresses after dungeon 6 will see where it finishes though.

 

[cajunator]

I've found myself dangerously low on health many times in this game.
Even the higher level bokoblins and deku-babas can fuck me up on occasion. I like the added difficulty and having to be more careful in dungeons. Used to just breeze by and not lose hearts unless I did something incredibly stupid. Now you can play smart and still get schooled sometimes. This also adds to the excitement of certain collectathon moments where your life is very much at stake.

 

[ASIS]

I'm pretty sure I'm quite close to the end of the game, and ultimately Skyward Sword is going to be a mix of sublime, inventive gameplay and a wonderfully fresh take on Zelda, and some utterly awful inclusions that seriously drag down the overall quality for me.

If I had to give one example of the latter now, it would be Fi, and her inclusion as a forced guide/tutorial that clogs up an embarrassing portion of the game. So intrusive is she on the flow of gameplay that she single handedly lowers my perception of the entire game, and I don't doubt for a second the experience would have been notably better had she been excluded.

I will never understand how Fi can be so terrible that it manages to drag down anything TBH, to each his own I guess.