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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011

Garcia

Member
Just a personal note, this game got 1000X better when I learned to parry with the shield. I can't believe with all the hand-holding bullshit nobody tells you about this. I did it by accident once, and now it the only 100% reliable way to defeat any enemy. Satisfying as hell.

Oh but they tell you in the training academy as soon as you get a shield and go speak with that guy. That's what the hanging log is for, for practicing your parry moves.

I honestly parry 80% of the time. Sometimes when I'm feeling deary I kill the Deku Babas from a distance and shoot Skyward beams to them or just slash them face to face, but most of the time I just dizzy them and cut them from the ground.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
how is dowsing "useless"? Firstly I found it helpful in certain parts, and you aren't forced to use it. secondly, how is it ANY different from a game with an objective marker or something similar that points you TO YOUR OBJECTIVE?

I don't want to use it. I never do. But up to where I'm at(5th dungeon), Fi still keeps mentioning it, and I need to double tap C or else hear the annoying ringing of the fact I can dowse. It's a mechanic the game keeps trying to shove down my throat.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Oh but they tell you in the training academy as soon as you get a shield and go speak with that guy. That's what the hanging log is for, for practicing your parry moves.

I honestly parry 80% of the time. Sometimes when I'm feeling deary I kill the Deku Babas from a distance and shoot Skyward beams to them or just slash them face to face, but most of the time I just dizzy them and cut them from the ground.

By parry you mean thrust the nunchuck to block the attack, right?
 
I wonder what Nintendo could actually do with Zelda that would please more people. It seems that there are those who feel like Zelda isn't developing enough because of the graphics or the fact that the new game doesn't have the scale of something like Skyrim. Or that it's too kiddy or whatever.

And then you have people who scream that it's more of the same, just before going back to Modern Warfare 3 or Assassin's Creed: Revelations, which is just more of the same. Sure, Zelda has been around a lot longer, but there have been changes made along the way. 3D, motion controls, etc.

So let's say that Nintendo develops a sparkling new Zelda for WiiU, with vastly superior graphics, bigger scale, etc. The people complaining about the graphics may be pleased by this, but then the people who complain about it not being grittier or because it's still puzzle solving and dungeon romping-- that there hasn't been enough change for them, are still going to complain as well.

Would Nintendo have to completely redesign the series to the point where it's not even recognizably Zelda anymore in an attempt to appease "everyone else?" This post isn't about the motion control issues-- that's an entire different can of worms-- but I've been reading feedback/impressions on not just here but at other places, and comments made by those who don't even care about the series anymore, and I'm at a loss as to how they could make a Zelda that would stick the franchise back "up there" without making something totally different, that doesn't feel like Zelda.

This worries me to some degree because I feel like Nintendo is already trying to cater to the wider audience by showing off stuff like... say, Arkham City being a WiiU launch title and looking just as good as the current version does, and I think that despite some of the comments about Skyward still not being different enough, it is honestly very different to me. Just the way everything is laid out, the pre-dungeon stuff, how disconnected the environments are... it does feel very different from Twilight Princess. It still feels like Zelda enough to me, but I am finding it decidedly different all the same.

I'm loving the game so far but I feel for people let down by the motion control implementation and those who long for further change. I respect that 100%, but I'm left wondering what Nintendo could do to get people to look at Zelda again like they now look at the other blockbuster franchises out now that are releasing installments every single year with very little change.

And yes, the hand holding is a problem. I'm bearing with it, but it's my first time through the game and I imagine that it's going to be horrible on replays. I think what I'm trying to say is that despite how far out Nintendo is going to deliver a new experience is that at the same time they lack something that, as developers, they cannot lack: confidence. Look at all the hand holding in fear of people not following. Look at how many instructional videos we got prior to the game's release, like the thing with the Goddess Cubes. They released a video just to show that if you use a Skyward Strike on a Cube, that a treasure will open up elsewhere. Thanks, I mean there's no fucking way I could have discovered that on my own or anything.

Someone, I think Ami said that Nintendo thinks gamers are dumber than they really are and that's absolutely true. The appeal of the older Zelda's were that they were a lot more ambiguous and the thrill of playing them was the idea of getting stuck, having no idea where to go or what to do, and then the idea that you'll continue to be stuck OR in the next 2 minutes, figure out what the fuck to do. I was doing this... I mean I was born in 83 and the original came out in 86 I think, so. But now we have sidekicks in every game telling us how to play the game, and while there have been instances where I've been confused as to what to do exactly (which feels good man), at the same time there's been way too much "to walk, move your legs forward one after the other"

I know this post has rambled about so many topics, and I'm sorry for not preparing a more focused essay, but everything I'm saying here kind of runs together in the long run. I'm loving the game so far, every positive thing I've said about it so far still stands, but I am sincerely bummed out about these very real problems ruining the game for some people, just as I was when Uncharted 3 launched with borked aiming and such. Uncharted 3 was a game I really did like a lot, but the aiming problem was so real that the developers sought advice from teh GAF and even invited them over to help address the issue.

Basically, it sucks that the motion control implementation is hurting the game for some, it sucks that some people think Zelda should turn into something totally new in order to be "good" again despite other franchises dishing out annual products that don't change much and getting way more attention, it sucks that Nintendo lacks confidence to the point where they're nervous about releasing the game without letting players just play it and not being treated like a preschooler, and it sucks that even if the next Zelda has beautiful HD graphics and a bigger scale, people are still going to bitch because it will still be the same kind of Zelda gameplay with the focus still on puzzle solving and explorations.

Just... everything sucks, man. 8/10. This post brought to you by boredom, too much time to think, and legitimate concern for the future of the franchise, and enough balls to actually click submit reply.
 

Danielsan

Member
I don't want to use it. I never do. But up to where I'm at(5th dungeon), Fi still keeps mentioning it, and I need to double tap C or else hear the annoying ringing of the fact I can dowse. It's a mechanic the game keeps trying to shove down my throat.
This sums it up for me.
 
how is dowsing "useless"? Firstly I found it helpful in certain parts, and you aren't forced to use it. secondly, how is it ANY different from a game with an objective marker or something similar that points you TO YOUR OBJECTIVE?
If they're the same, WHY DIDN'T THEY USE THAT INSTEAD? It's far more efficient.

I would take a bunch of Xs on the map over being forced to use dousing to find crap.
 

Branduil

Member
I have so much trouble with an upward slash. I actually stand now when playing the game because it increased the M+ accuracy.

It is definitely true that standing helps. It's not impossible to play when sitting but when you're in an intense sword battle and you need to swing in certain ways, standing really helps.
 

Danielsan

Member
If they're the same, WHY DIDN'T THEY USE THAT INSTEAD? It's far more efficient.

I would take a bunch of Xs on the map over being forced to use dousing to find crap.
Which reminds me. "Hey you entered a new area. Let me bring up your map, zoom and zoom in 3 times to show you where the fuck you are on the map." Please tell me this only happens in the starting area...
 

braves01

Banned
There's really no reason for the sidekicks now that the boi-oing stones ( sorry I forgot the name) can just show you a video of what to do. Nintendo could use those to keep everyone happy, i.e. people who need help and those who don't.
 

Dascu

Member
If they're the same, WHY DIDN'T THEY USE THAT INSTEAD? It's far more efficient.

I would take a bunch of Xs on the map over being forced to use dousing to find crap.

Because,
- It's easier to use or ignore dowsing than going into a menu and switching objective markers on/off. You can easily pick when and where to use it, for which item.
- You combine it with first-person view, like in previous games.
- It's a better navigational tool than an X on your map which can be ambiguous (especially with layered environments).
- It's more versatile and less of an exploration spoiler, since depending on how much you use it, it can be anything from no hint to a general directional hint to a specific location (once you've found and reached it).
- Later in the game, it's used to find other things than quest objectives. Putting this all on the map or as objective markers would be cluttered.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I wonder what Nintendo could actually do with Zelda that would please more people. It seems that there are those who feel like Zelda isn't developing enough because of the graphics or the fact that the new game doesn't have the scale of something like Skyrim. Or that it's too kiddy or whatever.

And then you have people who scream that it's more of the same, just before going back to Modern Warfare 3 or Assassin's Creed: Revelations, which is just more of the same. Sure, Zelda has been around a lot longer, but there have been changes made along the way. 3D, motion controls, etc.

So let's say that Nintendo develops a sparkling new Zelda for WiiU, with vastly superior graphics, bigger scale, etc. The people complaining about the graphics may be pleased by this, but then the people who complain about it not being grittier or because it's still puzzle solving and dungeon romping-- that there hasn't been enough change for them, are still going to complain as well.

Would Nintendo have to completely redesign the series to the point where it's not even recognizably Zelda anymore in an attempt to appease "everyone else?" This post isn't about the motion control issues-- that's an entire different can of worms-- but I've been reading feedback/impressions on not just here but at other places, and comments made by those who don't even care about the series anymore, and I'm at a loss as to how they could make a Zelda that would stick the franchise back "up there" without making something totally different, that doesn't feel like Zelda.

This worries me to some degree because I feel like Nintendo is already trying to cater to the wider audience by showing off stuff like... say, Arkham City being a WiiU launch title and looking just as good as the current version does, and I think that despite some of the comments about Skyward still not being different enough, it is honestly very different to me. Just the way everything is laid out, the pre-dungeon stuff, how disconnected the environments are... it does feel very different from Twilight Princess. It still feels like Zelda enough to me, but I am finding it decidedly different all the same.

I'm loving the game so far but I feel for people let down by the motion control implementation and those who long for further change. I respect that 100%, but I'm left wondering what Nintendo could do to get people to look at Zelda again like they now look at the other blockbuster franchises out now that are releasing installments every single year with very little change.

And yes, the hand holding is a problem. I'm bearing with it, but it's my first time through the game and I imagine that it's going to be horrible on replays. I think what I'm trying to say is that despite how far out Nintendo is going to deliver a new experience is that at the same time they lack something that, as developers, they cannot lack: confidence. Look at all the hand holding in fear of people not following. Look at how many instructional videos we got prior to the game's release, like the thing with the Goddess Cubes. They released a video just to show that if you use a Skyward Strike on a Cube, that a treasure will open up elsewhere. Thanks, I mean there's no fucking way I could have discovered that on my own or anything.

Someone, I think Ami said that Nintendo thinks gamers are dumber than they really are and that's absolutely true. The appeal of the older Zelda's were that they were a lot more ambiguous and the thrill of playing them was the idea of getting stuck, having no idea where to go or what to do, and then the idea that you'll continue to be stuck OR in the next 2 minutes, figure out what the fuck to do. I was doing this... I mean I was born in 83 and the original came out in 86 I think, so. But now we have sidekicks in every game telling us how to play the game, and while there have been instances where I've been confused as to what to do exactly (which feels good man), at the same time there's been way too much "to walk, move your legs forward one after the other"

I know this post has rambled about so many topics, and I'm sorry for not preparing a more focused essay, but everything I'm saying here kind of runs together in the long run. I'm loving the game so far, every positive thing I've said about it so far still stands, but I am sincerely bummed out about these very real problems ruining the game for some people, just as I was when Uncharted 3 launched with borked aiming and such. Uncharted 3 was a game I really did like a lot, but the aiming problem was so real that the developers sought advice from teh GAF and even invited them over to help address the issue.

Basically, it sucks that the motion control implementation is hurting the game for some, it sucks that some people think Zelda should turn into something totally new in order to be "good" again despite other franchises dishing out annual products that don't change much and getting way more attention, it sucks that Nintendo lacks confidence to the point where they're nervous about releasing the game without letting players just play it and not being treated like a preschooler, and it sucks that even if the next Zelda has beautiful HD graphics and a bigger scale, people are still going to bitch because it will still be the same kind of Zelda gameplay with the focus still on puzzle solving and explorations.

Just... everything sucks, man. 8/10. This post brought to you by boredom, too much time to think, and legitimate concern for the future of the franchise, and enough balls to actually click submit reply.

i am really hoping Zelda changes all the time, but in a way the Zelda series was before - more like Zelda 1 or whatever. But I've generally loved most Zelda games even those with massive changes, so it never was an issue.

I only want things that simply don't work to change, not to make it "un-Zelda." We have our Skyrims, I want my Zelda.
 
Seriously, is it time for us Zelda fans to Occupy Nintendo until they kick Aonuma and make a real Zelda game. Its only been like 18 years since an actual Zelda game was made.

The NPCs at this point prevent you from actually playing the game. and when there is control over Link, all you get is puzzle after puzzle. The battles are puzzles, opening every door is a puzzle, the dungeons are giant puzzles. What is it first 30 minutes to an hour before you actually get to do anything other than read endless text barrage. You can't get your sword until you go through some "training" (i.e. Tutorial). "Press A" "Swing sword by making swiping motions".

Its quite depressing, really. I pray fortnightly for the last couple years for New Legend of Zelda (hopefully at least the same quality as Bionic Commando Rearmed). I don't even care if it is just a remake of I and II.

I am so tired of this PuzZelda crap. Since Ocarina, there has been no Zelda. that is right you heard me OK. There has not been anything within the vein of Zelda game since OoT (and I am giving way too much credit to OoT, really should say ALttP). The game you have all been playing for the last 18 or so years is PuzZelda: Tutorial Quest. PuzZelda takes characters and nostalgic elements of Zelda and places them on-top an Adventures of LoLo like game with endless rantings of NPCs and Tutorials in a world where everything is a puzzle. Game mechanics and action elements are completely curb-stomped in favor of boring, simplified, Aonuma can't kill Octoroks in LoZ I and never even beat the first dungeon of Zelda I, adventure point-and-click like game design.

"You just solved a puzzle" (interrupt game-play with cut-scene of door opening). "You have been locked inside this room." (interrupt game-play with cut-scene of door slamming shut). "You got five rupees." (interrupt game-play with cut-scene of Link holding a rupee above his head and text stating that the total rupee value is 5, but you can't keep it cause it overfills your wallet so put it back - every single time you pick up a rupee like you can't count on your own).

Would Nintendo have to completely redesign the series to the point where it's not even recognizably Zelda anymore in an attempt to appease "everyone else?"
What do you mean, it isn't recognizable as Zelda now. I played the first Zelda the month it came out and beat the damn thing when I was 6 or 7 - these games that bear the Zelda name-tag ARE NOT Zelda in any way, shape, or form. It is a sick joke by Nintendo. Aonuma has absolutely no business even being on the Zelda team if he found Zelda I too hard to even get past Octoroks. No wonder it is so easy and filled with puzzles rather than engaging enemies and exploration... Aonuma thinks video games are too hard. He put trains in Zelda because his son likes trains... freaking disgusting dirt ball.
 

Caelus

Member
I can sort of understand why Nintendo put the hand-holding.

Going on multiple forums, I see four to five threads and even more posts asking to how equip a shield.

Ugh.
 

Lingitiz

Member
I don't understand where all the motion plus issues are coming from. I don't even do full swings, I just sit and use easy wrist movements and it works great other than having to recalibrate the cursor every now and then, but that doesn't even change the sword controls.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
So, after all my whining and complaining, I'm going to keep at the game. I just can't accept that a Zelda game is this bad. The game must get better. It has to be amazing. So, I'm going to keep playing, hoping that perhaps I put the wrong game in, and SS is actually the stellar game I expect it to be.

Maybe the first four hours are a magnificent troll, and the motion controls magically work for me once I pass some invisible barrier. Maybe then the game will give me Zelda.
 

Caelus

Member
You can't get your sword until you go through some "training" (i.e. Tutorial). "Press A" "Swing sword by making swiping motions".

I wonder if you played SS... the sword tutorial is optional, completely.

Judging by the rest of your post, this seems to be the case.
 

Danielsan

Member
So, after all my whining and complaining, I'm going to keep at the game. I just can't accept that a Zelda game is this bad. The game must get better. It has to be amazing. So, I'm going to keep playing, hoping that perhaps I put the wrong game in, and SS is actually the stellar game I expect it to be.

Maybe the first four hours are a magnificent troll, and the motion controls magically work for me once I pass some invisible barrier. Maybe then the game will give me Zelda.
I'm going to force myself to at least finish the first or second dungeon, because honestly, I'm simply baffled how this game got perfect scores all over the place. Even if the gameplay was riveting from the start (which it isn't) the design issues alone should have taken it down a peg.
 

Amir0x

Banned
So, after all my whining and complaining, I'm going to keep at the game. I just can't accept that a Zelda game is this bad. The game must get better. It has to be amazing. So, I'm going to keep playing, hoping that perhaps I put the wrong game in, and SS is actually the stellar game I expect it to be.

Maybe the first four hours are a magnificent troll, and the motion controls magically work for me once I pass some invisible barrier. Maybe then the game will give me Zelda.

play until the fourth dungeon. trust me, fourth dungeon is worth the pain
 

StevieP

Banned
I'm going to force myself to at least finish the first or second dungeon, because honestly, I'm simply baffled how this game got perfect scores all over the place. Even if the gameplay was riveting from the start (which it isn't) the design issues alone should have taken it down a peg.

GTA IV got perfect scores.
 
Is that response for me or for those people?

If for me, I think Nintendo should have minimal hand-holding, but enough so people know what to do.

If for those people... yeah, kind of sad since they explain it to you in game.

Yeah it's for the people... geez. Don't they know how to read?
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
unnecessary perhaps, but the map zooming thing takes like 10 seconds. you guys must be damn impatient

I think SS is a great game marred by TONS of these niggling things. Yes, it's short, but unnecessary. It's not hard to double tap C to remove the dousing notification, but it's another unnecessary step I need to take. Every time I start the game back up and I get a plethora of drops from enemies, the game halts, brings up the menu, and adds 1 to the 53 amber relics I have. Etc.
 
I'm not too far but so far in loving it. Everything I didn't like about TP has been fixed. I'm getting a LTTP vibe, which is great since its my favorite Zelda games.
 
I think SS is a great game marred by TONS of these niggling things. Yes, it's short, but unnecessary. It's not hard to double tap C to remove the dousing notification, but it's another unnecessary step I need to take. Every time I start the game back up and I get a plethora of drops from enemies, the game halts, brings up the menu, and adds 1 to the 53 amber relics I have. Etc.

Yeah, the game does things like this all over the place, it's not just the one or two examples people are giving.
 

Caelus

Member
Every time I start the game back up and I get a plethora of drops from enemies, the game halts, brings up the menu, and adds 1 to the 53 amber relics I have. Etc.

I think when you pick up a drop, a message box should say "you got a ____" and that should be the end, because sometimes I want to know what I pick up, but I can check by myself how many I have.
 

Aeonin

Member

I think Nintendo and the Zelda franchise have nigh perfected amazing game-play. Its been that way for a very long time, and its still getting better.

What they lack now is entertainment value. It isn't entertaining to read monotonous amounts of text from Fi. But that is just one section where entertainment IS NOT their focus - its sprinkled all over their design philosophy. So there can't be a numbered amount of "hey Nintendo, change this".

Its their design strategy that needs to be updated for the new breed of discerning gamers who want a quality gaming/entertainment experience. MW3 MP/WarioWare focus on entertainment by providing slick fast experiences with little to no downtime. Zelda should not do that.

I think the entertainment experience from Zelda comes from how they present the world. All of their character designs are top notch, the world is so unique. But I think the sense of wonder and exploration has faded from the series for me. Instead now with SS, they go full force with their dungeon experience, it hampers the general exploration and sense of immersion.

How come I don't feel like I'm exploring a world that has never been seen or even confirmed to exist?
 

Red

Member
I'm really surprised at the amount of control complaining. They work so well for me that it is actually frustrating playing traditional 3D Zelda now.

It seems you guys playing on actual Wiis are having a measurably worse experience than I am on PC.
I didn't expect that.
 

disco

Member
I don't have a HUGE issue with the controls (Loftwing, Beetle, etc).

The only issue is that a LOT of my horizontal swings register as diagonal and it's frustrating the shit out of me.

I have the same problem too. Fucks me off majorly. I just keep slapping those Bokoblins.
 

batbeg

Member
I'm 130 hours in and just got the map to the second dungeon. Maybe its because I've always soaked in the Zelda experience as much as possible (TP took me 40-odd hours, not 100%) but the complaints of pacing, text speed, and Fi have had no bearing on me. The controls were a struggle for the first area, but I've quickly mastered them since, and I think this is an absolutely stellar experience thus far.

My one nitpick is the music isn't pure sexual magic.
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
The only thing that annoys me with the game is that you can't disable, or at least minimize Fi's advice and the help messages. I don't know why they didn't just let you set the intrusiveness yourself like they did with the HUD. Other than that I think it's fantastic, and I only just entered the Earth Temple after about 7 hours of play. I enjoy fighting even the most basic enemies with the MotionPlus controls, whereas in previous games they were frequently a chore. The shield bash feels glorious.

Yes it's structured quite strangely compared to recent entries but I think it works well. The hubs are good fun to explore and have just enough NPCs sprinkled in. I'll take these more condensed environments over the enormous empty fields of Twilight Princess any day of the week.
 

sphinx

the piano man
Wow, I just read last page and it's like GAF declared war on Zelda, Nintendo and everyone there. So much hate..

I just got my game delivered from the post and will play it next week but these impressions are reaaally taming, cooling down my hype...
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Some people can not pull out a yoga flame, not because street fighter controls are flawed, but because these people are just bad. The proof Zelda SS controls are ultra accurate has been demonstrated in a video earlier in this thread. It's factual. Does it require skills? Absolutely. Like most great games do.
 

protonion

Member
I'm 130 hours in and just got the map to the second dungeon. Maybe its because I've always soaked in the Zelda experience as much as possible (TP took me 40-odd hours, not 100%) but the complaints of pacing, text speed, and Fi have had no bearing on me. The controls were a struggle for the first area, but I've quickly mastered them since, and I think this is an absolutely stellar experience thus far.

My one nitpick is the music isn't pure sexual magic.


Please tell me you meant 13 hours.
 

jonno394

Member
Post Five / Pre Six spoiler

Just did the
robot escort
boy did it rub me up the wrong way. First time I've been angry at the game and even called
the robot
a fat C*** at one point in
the room with the two Lizalfos
 

Garcia

Member
Wow, I just read last page and it's like GAF declared war on Zelda, Nintendo and everyone there. So much hate..

I just got my game delivered from the post and will play it next week but these impressions are reaaally taming, cooling down my hype...

Don't mind our rants! Go play it and judge it for yourself.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
2-3 hours in. This game starts really, really slowly. It's like they didn't learn that the TP opening turned off a lot of people.

Second, Fi is a pretty good example of how annoying handholding can be in this gen's games. You don't need to pop out and explain everything that was JUST EXPLAINED TO ME during the events of the game. I understood what was implied by that NPC. You don't need to tell me again.

Having said that, the game looks and controls great. I have minor gripes about some of the system changes (I'm not sold on the stamina gauge), but the combat is really fun, and every enemy encounter is suddenly new. You definitely cannot just hide behind your shield or mash/waggle your way through everything the way you did with previous zeldas. The art style of this game is fantastic.

Gonna keep at it.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I'm not too far but so far in loving it. Everything I didn't like about TP has been fixed. I'm getting a LTTP vibe, which is great since its my favorite Zelda games.

I'm still early, but the game doesn't feel like Zelda at all, so far.
 
Finished the game, and I never once had that issue. Ever.
Same here. I actually finished it twice, the second one in
hero mode
with six hearts. Zero issues.

People must have some problem with the WM+, like Miyamoto at E3 two years ago. Otherwise I just can't understand all that complains.
 
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