Feels directly in line with Zeldas 1-3 for me.
If there's one thing I can complain about here, it's that there have been few surprises. For the most part, the game is exactly what I expected it to be.
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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
If there's one thing I can complain about here, it's that there have been few surprises. For the most part, the game is exactly what I expected it to be.
I suppose super impatient people might be bored by the first 2 dungeons since they are standard Zelda fair, but they are still pretty interesting and the game ramps up the level design to amazing new levels with dungeon 3 and keeps going (at least up to where I am).
I have had no problems with the motion controls other than sometimes messing up the fatal blow, but that's probably due to me being out of sync moving both controllers in the desperate dash to beat the timer. If I deliberately swipe in a direction, I swipe in that direction. If I thrust, I thrust. To me, this is what Zelda needs to be from now on. The controls are so good that just based on watching videos of the first boss, I beat the first boss on my first attempt (first time ever using a motion plus) without taking a single hit and without using my shield.
Fi is annoying, but only minorly so. Not enough to drag down my enjoyment of the game. If she was telling me exactly what to do the whole time she would, but she really only butts in for general direction stuff and to point out things a cutscene already showed you and stays out of your way for puzzles; though sometimes the Fi button will glow to optionally spoil a solution. The funniest thing was when she informed me that the boss key chest the cutscene just showed me had an 85% chance of having a boss key in it. She actually made me laugh in the area I'm in;
I have had no problems with the motion controls other than sometimes messing up the fatal blow, but that's probably due to me being out of sync moving both controllers in the desperate dash to beat the timer. If I deliberately swipe in a direction, I swipe in that direction. If I thrust, I thrust. To me, this is what Zelda needs to be from now on. The controls are so good that just based on watching videos of the first boss, I beat the first boss on my first attempt (first time ever using a motion plus) without taking a single hit and without using my shield.
The coolest part was that the final hit that ended the boss battle was a projectile attack I reflected back at him.
Fi is annoying, but only minorly so. Not enough to drag down my enjoyment of the game. If she was telling me exactly what to do the whole time she would, but she really only butts in for general direction stuff and to point out things a cutscene already showed you and stays out of your way for puzzles; though sometimes the Fi button will glow to optionally spoil a solution. The funniest thing was when she informed me that the boss key chest the cutscene just showed me had an 85% chance of having a boss key in it. She actually made me laugh in the area I'm in;
I'm in the volcano and she tells me there is a 90% chance the flame is in this area and I should look for flames. If they were going to make her state the obvious all the time they should have made her funny like this.
That's nothing, I'm 1300 hours in and I still can't figure out where they hid that damn bird.
To be fair, the first dungeon is pretty mediocre. The puzzle are really straightforward and easy and there's only one impressive room, the rest feels pretty smallish and shallow. I think I liked TP's first dungeon a lot more...
I'm sure there will be much better dungeons though, so it's all good.
I'm sure there will be much better dungeons though, so it's all good.
Eteric Rice
Member
Basically this, so far.
I do hope the next LoZ game is classic style. I want an old school Zelda game.
Ooccoo
Member
Can't believe I'm saying this but I'm kind of stuck in this game. I'm in the second room in the desert symbol activating quest and I can't access the other side where there's a mecanism you need to press a switch in order to activate. I tried various things including moving the electric monsters there using the beetle but nothing works. I'm sure it's only a detail but I don't feel like spending too much time figuring it out. The blocks on the left are too high to get on, and it's frustrating since there's a chest up there.
Warrior_Keoni
Member
First mini-boss was fairly hard for me...maybe I should learn to read enemy moves before constantly wailing away and watch my health suffer...
Have you tried going back to the present while standing as close to the other side as you can get, then switching back to the past once you cross?
I'm playing on a Wii and everything is fantastic.
Also like you, I really like the new controls. I really hope they never go back to traditional controls. The game is so much more fun with the new control scheme that I find the combat in the other games in the series more boring and less immersive now.
Ridleyscott
Banned
Dude, it isn't nice to lie. This game has absolutely nothing in common with Zelda 1-3. All you are trying to do here with that statement is start an argument.
As per your posting history, what you're suggesting is that A Link to the Past *is* Zelda, and Ocarina of Time is *not* Zelda. Somehow, I'm not sure who's starting what in here.
I agree. In past games the combat was more like a chore; something to kill time between puzzles. But with these controls, enemy encounters are almost as good as puzzles. They are genuinely challenging and completely due to skill. If you are really having that much trouble, you can shield bash every enemy to victory.
Oops, apparently my phone autocorrects 13 to 130.
Electivirus
Member
I'm guessing we're in full backlash mode now, huh?
Ooccoo
Member
I thought so but maybe I wasn't close enough, I'll try again in a few hours (at work right now)
I honestly don't remember the exact solution. I didn't have trouble with that one, but I think that's what you have to do. Maybe you have to
ride a shell across. I seem to remember that happening, too.
Ridleyscott
Banned
Even worse, enemy encounters ARE puzzles. Welcome to PuzZelda! Forget actions, tactile gaming, reflexes, and difficulty... it has all been replaced with puzzles. Now even the most incapable gamer can finish the game, all you have to do is solve elementary-school puzzles.
I think we have been in backlash mode since WW and retroactively (after the original Zelda fans woke up) since OoT.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Finally the weekend! Time to get some Zelda in and hopefully finish it off! 
Edit: Oh my, just read the last page. What happened in here? ;//
Edit: Oh my, just read the last page. What happened in here? ;//
I thought I was the only one who did that, lol. It amuses me.
Hahaha, I did the same for a bit.
protonion
Member
Well I'm done with the game. 35 hours, all quests done. Missing a few heart pieces and a couple of chests but I won't bother.
This game was
10% 9/10
40% 8/10
40% 7/10
10% 5/10
-The pre-dungeon stuff. I thought I'd like the new direction. They were ok but I don't want to see another Zelda like this.
-Dungeons. Good but totally linear. They solved themselves. Even in the last one which seemed a bit tricky and more open at first glance, you were very restricted. I was expecting much more of the puzzles esp after Spirit Tracks.
-Story.Meh.
-Silent realm...Why?
-Bosses. Best in any 3D Zelda.
-World.I loved Skyloft. The rest was uninspired and a bit boring.The lack of other towns/villages and structure make the game feel less epic.
-Motion controls. They worked for me.
-Looks great. Music is forgettable
-Fi and treasure/bug picking etc are game breaking flaws. They should not be expected by any above average company.
-Items.Only the beetle is oftenly used. Also the last two games have ruined the hookshot. In OOT it was very fun to play with it in the world as you could use it on many surfaces. And this is the reason why OOT is still the king. It did the playground gameplay better.
Good game,disappointing Zelda.
This game was
10% 9/10
40% 8/10
40% 7/10
10% 5/10
-The pre-dungeon stuff. I thought I'd like the new direction. They were ok but I don't want to see another Zelda like this.
-Dungeons. Good but totally linear. They solved themselves. Even in the last one which seemed a bit tricky and more open at first glance, you were very restricted. I was expecting much more of the puzzles esp after Spirit Tracks.
-Story.Meh.
-Silent realm...Why?
-Bosses. Best in any 3D Zelda.
-World.I loved Skyloft. The rest was uninspired and a bit boring.The lack of other towns/villages and structure make the game feel less epic.
-Motion controls. They worked for me.
-Looks great. Music is forgettable
-Fi and treasure/bug picking etc are game breaking flaws. They should not be expected by any above average company.
-Items.Only the beetle is oftenly used. Also the last two games have ruined the hookshot. In OOT it was very fun to play with it in the world as you could use it on many surfaces. And this is the reason why OOT is still the king. It did the playground gameplay better.
Good game,disappointing Zelda.
Exterminieren
Banned
Zelda cycle continues apace.
So in your world timed button presses are more complex than timed directional sword swipes. Okay then.
Doing that reminds me of that Wind Waker manga.
People are aggravated because the level of hand-holding in this game is atrocious. The game insists on constantly stating the obvious, without any option in game to turn off these hints and assists. You have to hear the same explanation for the same things every time you turn your Wii back on. Fi must think you have ADD or the memory of an newborn baby.
This coupled with the motion controls has already set this back game into Obnoxious As Hell territory. There is nothing smooth about the controls. Fighting the
was aggravating because Link seems to completely miss the cue to do a front stab. Shaking of gel monsters invariably can lead to you doing a spinning slash, which can lead to you getting shocked if those blob monsters around you happen to be electric. Link insists on doing a full backflip after doing a killing blow, even if it means he falls right off a pillar to his "death". The bowling motion for throwing bombs can be incredibly frustrating because half the time, he ends up back to a neutral position rather than bowling it (no problems with the overhead toss). I could go on and on about these controls.
The loftwing and beetle controls aren't bad, however, and just take some time to get used to. I find trying to put keys into doors a bit more cumbersome but it's more of an annoyance than anything. I can deal with it.
Thank god the story is fun and the dungeons are great. The boss fights (motion issues aside) are also loads of fun.
I will say that at least this game is better than TwP.
This coupled with the motion controls has already set this back game into Obnoxious As Hell territory. There is nothing smooth about the controls. Fighting the
scorpion boss
The loftwing and beetle controls aren't bad, however, and just take some time to get used to. I find trying to put keys into doors a bit more cumbersome but it's more of an annoyance than anything. I can deal with it.
Thank god the story is fun and the dungeons are great. The boss fights (motion issues aside) are also loads of fun.
I will say that at least this game is better than TwP.
no one is looking back on tp as a prime example of zelda though
Hot Coldman
Banned
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Something predicted at the beginning of the Wii generation seems true: that an inevitable downside of motion controls is that what's good for one person will be bad for another.
Ironically, we got so few Wii games with proper motion controls - like Red Steel 2 - that this problem never really got highlighted. Most Wii games, even good ones, just use the gesture interface as either an IR pointer which is pretty hard for any player to fuck up using, or as a "shake" device. Just shake the Wiimote however you like to make something happen.
But take the plunge into serious, hardcore gameplay like with RS2 or this game, and you run into a mostly unexplored world of issues.
Example: I hardly ever, so far, had the stab motion go wrong on me. Someone else playing here was having a lot of trouble. He kept getting diagonal slashes when he tried to stab. So he watched me play a bit.
He tried mimicking me, and it worked a lot better for him. I watched him play, before that. To me, it looked as if whenever he tried to stab forward, without actually realizing what he was doing he was twisting his wrist to the side and actually swinging the wiimote in an arc. He triggered a diagonal slash.
And that's the issue. Ever seen someone who when they use a game pad, every time they mash a button with their thumb, they unconsciously twist their whole hand around or such? Motion controls highlight stuff like unrecognized body language and spasms, twitches, or habits that we don't ever think about. With video games, usually only the games that require the most rigorous and complex execution, like playing a fighting game on a joystick, highlight that yes, playing games is hard. It can be an actual discipline to use an input device precisely, at high speed, under pressure. Most games are, in fact, not really designed to push the player that far.
Ironically, we got so few Wii games with proper motion controls - like Red Steel 2 - that this problem never really got highlighted. Most Wii games, even good ones, just use the gesture interface as either an IR pointer which is pretty hard for any player to fuck up using, or as a "shake" device. Just shake the Wiimote however you like to make something happen.
But take the plunge into serious, hardcore gameplay like with RS2 or this game, and you run into a mostly unexplored world of issues.
Example: I hardly ever, so far, had the stab motion go wrong on me. Someone else playing here was having a lot of trouble. He kept getting diagonal slashes when he tried to stab. So he watched me play a bit.
He tried mimicking me, and it worked a lot better for him. I watched him play, before that. To me, it looked as if whenever he tried to stab forward, without actually realizing what he was doing he was twisting his wrist to the side and actually swinging the wiimote in an arc. He triggered a diagonal slash.
And that's the issue. Ever seen someone who when they use a game pad, every time they mash a button with their thumb, they unconsciously twist their whole hand around or such? Motion controls highlight stuff like unrecognized body language and spasms, twitches, or habits that we don't ever think about. With video games, usually only the games that require the most rigorous and complex execution, like playing a fighting game on a joystick, highlight that yes, playing games is hard. It can be an actual discipline to use an input device precisely, at high speed, under pressure. Most games are, in fact, not really designed to push the player that far.
Ridleyscott
Banned
ALttP followed the game mechanics (action-oriented and dominated) and exploration of the first two iterations while adding-in some of its own elements (secret switches and doors, etc. but not so much so as to abandon the foundation). OoT started to abandon those elements, first by starting off with a tutorial and endless talking to NPCs, hand-holding, and puzzle domination. It abandoned the tactile action dominated game-play in favor of puzzles. It probably did so because of the difficulty at first in presenting that type of game-play in 3D (I'm giving Nintendo the benefit of the doubt here). But, it was never corrected with further 3D iterations and has since decided to turn even what was left of the action or combat into puzzles and even more NPC/"Story" (i.e. endless cut-scenes and cinematics) rather than immersion and difficult game-play.
I think this sums it up pretty well. The only problem is I've been saying this since Wind Waker =(
Since then, 3D Zelda games just seem... rushed. I thought it was a one off with Wind Waker, but then Twilight Princess seemed rushed. And now Skyward Sword seems rushed. It has become a pattern. Fetch quests have no place in a Zelda game.
tis a shame. I really wish they just went the Majora's Mask route with a sequel. don't waste time with the art, and go right into new gameplay mechanics from the get go. Besides, Skyward Sword in 1080p may as well be a whole new art style, as Dolphin has proven.
Yeah, people just need to persist. I hated the controls up to the 2nd pre-dungeon area, especially combat controls. Now I am in love with the controls. We've never played an action-adventure game with motion controls, it's only natural that it takes to get used to the controls.
Everyone read this.
How do you feel about Uncharted? Call of Duty? Crysis 2?
It was difficult for me to go back to a dual-analog pad to play GTA IV after I played Godfather: Wii. It was a massive downgrade, to me, in terms of interacting with the character you were representing on screen - and a lot less fun.
Hey, I'm still loving the game..24 hours so far, 4th dungeon. Love the music in that dungeon too.
But I tend to like the stuff that many hate; so no biggie. Call it lowered expectations, blind loyalism, or fanboyism; I was just expecting Zelda and..well, got Zelda with new stuff: motion controls, the sky to explore, pretty visuals, orchestrated music..and I like Fi. Continue spamming her the moment I see a new enemy or character.
But I tend to like the stuff that many hate; so no biggie. Call it lowered expectations, blind loyalism, or fanboyism; I was just expecting Zelda and..well, got Zelda with new stuff: motion controls, the sky to explore, pretty visuals, orchestrated music..and I like Fi. Continue spamming her the moment I see a new enemy or character.
Ridleyscott
Banned
Motion controls aren't the problem, it is the entire 3D Zelda presentation we have been subjected to. The first three Zeldas required on-your-toes reflexes and timing. Now we are given two or three goofy enemies with leopard print panties and slow as hell mind-numbing sword swipes. It was just as bad with OoT->SS.
Uncharted I've only played a bit and feel it would be better with a fixed 2D path in a 3D world than what I call "free-roaming" 3rd person. CoD and Crysis... I find 1st person, in its current form, absolutely abhorrent from a game design perspective. 1st person is like being a refrigerator with a camera on top - completely unresponsive and inherently broken. It can be fixed but I don't see anyone trying. Though I liked what was attempted with mirror's edge - its just a shame it takes talent to actually progress things like controls and game mechanics. Today's developers love to advance graphics and cutscenes instead because it requires less thinking and work on their part than to develop a solid game-play skeleton. That is why Nintendo continues to opt for minor changes in Zelda when it comes to how you actually interact with your avatar and how it interacts with the world. It is much easier to throw-in gimmicks and silly items than to nail revolutionary game mechanics. Zelda I and II did that. LoZ nailed the over-the-top 2D sword mechanics and Zelda II nailed the side-scroller sword-play (arguably can't find better to this day for either). 3D Zeldas haven't nailed anything because the combat is just way too slow and boring. the best innovation was the z-targeting and it was still lacking compared to the precision of 2D.
Don't worry. 5 years from now everyone will be complaining about how SS was the greatest Zelda game ever made, how the new one sucks, and how they wish Nintendo would go back to their old ways like they were in 2011 when the used to be good (again).
No Zelda game is safe from the Zelda cycle. Ever. I've seen more positive comments about TP in these past three months alone than I did the whole first year after TP came out.
1. OOT didn't have mandatory tutorial. Endless talking to NPCs works when it's interesting... which was the case in OOT. And, like you said, it gets a pass for being the first 3D Zelda.
2. I don't recall any tutorials at all in MM. Poor MM, everyone forgets about you =(
But you're pretty spot on with Wind Waker forward...
Hm. That's a good way to think about it.
I had a lot of issues at first with the controls. I was getting diagonal slashes instead of horizontal ones, I had issues doing thrusts and finishing moves, and I had to recenter the aiming controls every single time I tried to aim at the screen.
Then something clicked, and I realized what I was doing wrong. My sword movements weren't broad and accurate enough, my thrusts weren't straight enough, I wasn't angling the finishing move motion enough, and I hadn't realized how the aiming controls are actually supposed to work (more like a mouse than like a pointer, as I have been repeating here countless times).
After I adjusted, the precision skyrocketed for me. Perhaps it didn't go up to 100%, but I'd say it got pretty damn close. During the whole second half of the game, I think I had to recenter the aiming about five times. No, I'm not kidding. I changed my stance to have the remote pointing towards the screen's general direction all the time, so whenever I happened to use something that required aiming I had no need to readjust.
Reading all these complaints makes me feel sad that so many people aren't having the same positive experience I had.
Then something clicked, and I realized what I was doing wrong. My sword movements weren't broad and accurate enough, my thrusts weren't straight enough, I wasn't angling the finishing move motion enough, and I hadn't realized how the aiming controls are actually supposed to work (more like a mouse than like a pointer, as I have been repeating here countless times).
After I adjusted, the precision skyrocketed for me. Perhaps it didn't go up to 100%, but I'd say it got pretty damn close. During the whole second half of the game, I think I had to recenter the aiming about five times. No, I'm not kidding. I changed my stance to have the remote pointing towards the screen's general direction all the time, so whenever I happened to use something that required aiming I had no need to readjust.
Reading all these complaints makes me feel sad that so many people aren't having the same positive experience I had.
As usual, Kaijima's posts are among the best and most reasonable you can find on GAF.
I thought, going into the wii, that Nintendo would as usual be the front of the pack showing these control styles with all of their series. They've actually been guilty of barely using it for better or for worse. It was slapped on TP, the galaxy games don't use the controls to much extent(and it's nothing that a button wouldn't have replaced). Same with NSMB. Mario Kart and Brawl both had gamepad support. Then SS comes out and they go nuts attaching motion onto everything they possibly could've. Never would have expected it all to turn out this way.
stop spoiling the game you god damn sega freak
EmCeeGramr
Member
Just beat the game (something like 35 hours, didn't check exactly, and I still needed to do a few things).
Really fantastic. Amazing art style, I loved the controls, and I liked how the game felt different with the changing regions. If I had to pick one thing to change, it'd be that I wanted more of it. Well, that and an option to turn off collection prompts and some of Fi's dialogue.
Even then, most of the stuff that was supposedly game-breaking was more like unnecessary diversions that were alright on their own, but didn't need to exist.
Really fantastic. Amazing art style, I loved the controls, and I liked how the game felt different with the changing regions. If I had to pick one thing to change, it'd be that I wanted more of it. Well, that and an option to turn off collection prompts and some of Fi's dialogue.
Even then, most of the stuff that was supposedly game-breaking was more like unnecessary diversions that were alright on their own, but didn't need to exist.
Electivirus
Member
heehee
Red Moblin butt.
Red Moblin butt.
Hobbestetrician
Member
The Malstrom-derp is strong with this one.
The first three Zeldas did not require what you say they did anymore than SS does. Go back to the NES and let the rest of us not be stuck in the past. Complain about puzzle-combat all you want but I will take that over running around trying to get behind an enemy and pressing a button wildly because my sword only moves in 4 directions.
this kinda shit should be bannable
EmCeeGramr
Member
Combat against 2D Zelda's equivalents of Bokoblins was walking up and pushing a button, or standing in a corner and spamming slices as they run into you.
Hot Coldman
Banned
not sure if serious