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[ConfusingJazz]

Public schools are a place for COMMON public instruction, not an extension of your local church.

Do you mind if I steal that one? Living in Texas, I need all the ammo I can get.

I am still wondering if we can consider Doc being owned yet, seeing that he has yet to come back into the thread and not given specific evidence to support how the liberals have ruined the country.

 

[Docwiz]

1) Define the terms "religious rights" and "family values." Justify the implied statement that liberals are not religious and do not have family values. While you're at it, you'd better explain what you mean by "liberals," and which people are included in that group.

I hit the wrong mouse button and it went back a page and killing my post.
Anyway, liberals in my definition (which probably won't be in the dictionary) is
anyone who has ideals that fits in towards the left. Jessie Jackson and Reverend Al Sharpton are like this and they aren't very religious either. Supporting extra gay rights != family values. Trying to legalise drugs and prostitution != family values.

2) Provide evidence for how liberals have "run the country since the 1950s" when we have had several LONG stretches of conservative and/or Republican control in that time span.

Before the 1960's kids in school were pretty tame, you had higher education and things were better. After the 1960's you see kids advocating free sex, drugs and everything else. The Bible was dropped out of schools. Kids no longer listened to their parents and in sometimes killed their own parents. Today liberals are in charge so they get upset if you spank a child and call it child abuse. Pretty simple to see for me and you would have to have rose colored glasses to not see such a thing.

3) Provide evidence that the public school systems have declined. Provide evidence for the claim that liberals are responsible for the decline in the public school system. Explain how "taking the Bible out of schools" caused that decline.

Wow, provide evidence? Need evidence that the sun will come up tomorrow?
Nice captain obvious.

Doing things like taking the draft out and exposing kids to the truth has kind of ruined a lot. I know others here will mock this but they are exactly the examples that I am talking about.

4) Provide evidence that "women's rights issues" and "race relations" are better today.

Why do you need proof? Are African Americans being beaten and told that they can't own their own property? No

Are women allowed to go to higher education without being looked down upon? No

Come on dude, you can't expect me to believe that things are not better for women and minorities in the 21st century. Sure things are not perfect and there still is disgrimination going on, but it's clearly not like it used to be, denying that is denying the truth.

 

[Triumph]

Is that you, Opa?

 

[Docwiz]

Except conservatives have basically run this country since 1968 starting with Richard Nixon. The Democrats got a BRIEF respite under Carter, and they got a whopping two years of control under Clinton. Otherwise, it has been ALL CONSERVATIVES.

Your theory fails already.

It doesn't matter who run's the executive branch of the government as much as it does who runs the schools.

They arn't the same thing so just because a republican was in the white house, liberals have been going through the schools, which explains a lot of liberalism in this thread.
You have been brainwashed by liberals coming through the schools as they can get to the future that way.

So my theory doesn't fail you just can't understand it. That is a big difference

 

[Docwiz]

Is that you, Opa?

No, it's common sense talking
and those fighting to believe that common sense actually works.

 

[Triumph]

Well, thank you for your intelligent and topical replies. With this new evidence in hand, I am going to go murder some liberal politicians.

 

[iapetus]

Docwiz is failing the evidence test, resorting to "it's obvious that" and rewording his original statements without actually providing anything to back them up. Hands up all those who are surprised?

[Edit: Almost missed the high comedy of the "it's not that my argument is worthless, it's that you're too brainwashed to understand it" line.]

 

[Ill Saint]

...liberals have been going through the schools, which explains a lot of liberalism in this thread.
You have been brainwashed by liberals coming through the schools as they can get to the future that way.

:lol

This is so nuts. America is becoming more frightening every day. Can the place become any more divided?

 

[Manabanana]

Wow, provide evidence? Need evidence that the sun will come up tomorrow?
Nice captain obvious.

Doing things like taking the draft out and exposing kids to the truth has kind of ruined a lot. I know others here will mock this but they are exactly the examples that I am talking about.

*blink*

 

[Mercury Fred]

You have been brainwashed by liberals coming through the schools as they can get to the future that way.

So my theory doesn't fail you just can't understand it. That is a big difference

 

[Manabanana]

Ok, ok, ok, ok, ok, wait. I went to a school in which the majority of the people were conservative, I have yet to attend college, and my family is conservative. Am I still brainwashed?

 

[geogaddi]

:lol

This is so nuts. America is becoming more frightening every day. Can the place become any more divided?

Especially with a GAF post...right?

 

[Flynn]

It doesn't matter who run's the executive branch of the government as much as it does who runs the schools.

They arn't the same thing so just because a republican was in the white house, liberals have been going through the schools, which explains a lot of liberalism in this thread.
You have been brainwashed by liberals coming through the schools as they can get to the future that way.

So my theory doesn't fail you just can't understand it. That is a big difference

Docwiz is accidentally making a point.

I believe that education does breed liberalism, but not because of a left-wing educational conspiracy.

Education can expand and open minds, enlighten and foster empathy -- all liberal traits.

Thus the trending of more educated peoples toward liberal ideals. The educated have more information about other cultures and ways of thought and attempt to understand them. They use reason and scientific method to come to a conclusion rather than sticking to tradition.

 

[Ill Saint]

Especially with a GAF post...right?

No, based on what I read in the news, hear from friends in the States etc. etc.

 

[explodet]

Do you know what they were teaching in schools in the 1950's?

THIS!

 

[Socreges]

In doing research for an essay on China/US relations, I stumbled across an interesting article.

Promoting the National Interest by Condoleeza Rice. It was written in early 2000, before she became a part of the Bush administration. It's no wonder to me why they chose her after having read the article. It essentially serves as a proscription for a Republican presidency and the last four years have largely followed it. It would seem that she's the 21st century Machiavelli, only she succeeded.

At any rate, it helped me:

a) Better understand the mindset of hawkish foreign policy, however flawed.
b) Realize that approx 90% of the people that DO support the Bush administration, including many of you on this board, probably don't even share their vision of the world. Which would be the only practical reason, imo, to vote for them. Instead, they've won you over with simple politics and appealing to the conventions already firmly placed in your mind.

 

[Hitokage]

I hit the wrong mouse button and it went back a page and killing my post.
Anyway, liberals in my definition (which probably won't be in the dictionary) is
anyone who has ideals that fits in towards the left. Jessie Jackson and Reverend Al Sharpton are like this and they aren't very religious either. Supporting extra gay rights != family values. Trying to legalise drugs and prostitution != family values.

All you did with your definition of "liberal" was shift the discussion to the term "left". After that, you merely give two examples of what you think family values isn't.

Before the 1960's kids in school were pretty tame, you had higher education and things were better. After the 1960's you see kids advocating free sex, drugs and everything else. The Bible was dropped out of schools. Kids no longer listened to their parents and in sometimes killed their own parents. Today liberals are in charge so they get upset if you spank a child and call it child abuse. Pretty simple to see for me and you would have to have rose colored glasses to not see such a thing.

So sex, drugs, and parricide were invented in the 1960s? So state-run public schools must teach the christian bible to muslims, buddhists, and jews... who are no less citizens of this country that gives freedom to ALL religions?

Wow, provide evidence? Need evidence that the sun will come up tomorrow?
Nice captain obvious.

Considering geocentrism... your example is lacking.


BTW, unless you are 50 years of age, then you cannot claim to have firsthand knowledge of ANY of your claims. You are relying on other sources of information and those sources may not be accurate or complete. This subject is no more obvious to any of us than the reason Ho Chi Minh went to the Soviets for help. Stop making yourself look like a fool by saying otherwise.

 

[Minotauro]

Man, this thead is hilarious. I'm still not 100% convinced that this isn't a huge troll but it's enjoyable nonetheless. I think my favorite part is this:

I hit the wrong mouse button and it went back a page and killing my post.

 

[Mumbles]

Um, did that guy just say that reverend Al Sharpton isn't very religious?

 

[xsarien]

Um, did that guy just say that reverend Al Sharpton isn't very religious?

Yes, but I don't think many are taking ol' Docwiz here too seriously anyway.

 

[pestul]

It saddens me deeply that individuals like this are given 85k a year. Where is all the money for the decent people in the world?

 

[Doth Togo]

You realize he/she could be lying?

 

[etiolate]

Why can't people complain about our obsession with greed, pride, vanity and gluttony?

 

[FnordChan]

This subject is no more obvious to any of us than the reason Ho Chi Minh went to the Soviets for help.

As I recall, that was actually fairly straightforward. That isn't to say that Docwiz doesn't look like a fool, however.

FnordChan

 

[videogamer]

You realize he/she could be lying?

He could be trolling, but this is the kind of material I expect from people likie him. :/

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

Wow, provide evidence? Need evidence that the sun will come up tomorrow?
Nice captain obvious.

Doing things like taking the draft out and exposing kids to the truth has kind of ruined a lot. I know others here will mock this but they are exactly the examples that I am talking about.

*blink*

I was thinking the same thing. wth is that supposed to mean?

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

How the social and political atmosphere of the 1950s was in any way, shape, or form superior to that of today.

Distribution of income was much more equitable in the 50s and 60s. Labor unions were much stronger as well.

 

[Dilbert]

I don't have any time to add something more substantial, but for now:

:lol:lol:lol

 

[Drinky Crow]

DOC WIZ AM CRYING, HIS NOT GROWNDED IN TEH LOGIC

 

[maharg]

Labor unions were much stronger as well.

Was that because of, or in spite of the massive corruption and mafia connections they had at that time?

 

[xsarien]

Distribution of income was much more equitable in the 50s and 60s. Labor unions were much stronger as well.

And blacks were treated like chattle, women were treated as pets...

 

[iapetus]

And blacks were treated like chattle, women were treated as pets...

To be fair to DocWiz (and it's increasingly tough) he did say things were better then except for those specific cases.

 

[xsarien]

To be fair to DocWiz (and it's increasingly tough) he did say things were better then except for those specific cases.

They kind of undermine any claim that morals were superior to those of today.

 

[Docwiz]

1) Most parents do not care about their children or take time to be with their children and teach them things. They don't spank the children.

2) Most teachers can't do anything about these kids so they have to let them do whatever they want as they are restricted, they can no longer spank the children.

3) Young adults no longer to into the military which will teach them about disipline and self worth among other things as there is no draft anymore.

4) Separation between church and state was invented so that things like in England in which the Catholic Church had a hold on the government
does not take over the entire American government, but since this is no where near happening after school Bible Studies should be okay as well as any other religous gathering (ie Muslims, etc..)

Liberals control the schools and what is taught in school and what isn't. Liberals have also taken anything religious out of schools even if it does not involve church and state.

Also Reverend Al Sharpton isn't very religious, I don't care if he is a Reverend or not. It's more politically motivated than anything else. If you listen what he says you will see what I am saying.

 

[lachesis]

Wouldn't it be much easier to prove how "conservatives" have been ruining the earth, environment and this country from... er... the beginning?
(runs away)

lachesis

 

[Docwiz]

They kind of undermine any claim that morals were superior to those of today.

I said those things were better today, but the other things are a lot worse and things are worse off for everyone as far as morality goes. It hits every family, black white, men, women, poor, rich. It's the entire country with the lack of morals.

Civil rights are much better today and I honestly think I don't need proof for this as its kind of simple to see.

 

[Trakball]

Civil rights are much better today and I honestly think I don't need proof for this as its kind of simple to see.

I know a few gay people that would like to borrow your glasses for a moment.

 

[Docwiz]

Wouldn't it be much easier to prove how "conservatives" have been ruining the earth, environment and this country from... er... the beginning?
(runs away)

lachesis

Well besides our current misfit for a president, I think everyone is for the environment and not just liberals. I am for the environment instead of oil and we should be looking to ween ourselves off of oil and look into other alternatives and I am not a liberal.

After all our envionment affects all of us everday. If you live in Los Angeles like I do you will know how much the smog makes it hard to breath at times outside.

 

[DarthWoo]

Well besides our current misfit for a president, I think everyone is for the environment and not just liberals. I am for the environment instead of oil and we should be looking to ween ourselves off of oil and look into other alternatives and I am not a liberal.

After all our envionment affects all of us everday. If you live in Los Angeles like I do you will know how much the smog makes it hard to breath at times outside.

Erm...what about all the people that bought off the president to implement these adverse environmental policies? I don't think that even Bush wants to wreck the planet for the sake of fun; there are all the various companies that benefit from it. Not quite everyone is for the environment.

 

[Docwiz]

I know a few gay people that would like to borrow your glasses for a moment.

Well not long ago gay people will killed in the USA and even that is much better now.
It is getting better. I don't advocate any violence to anyone, gay or not. That's just wrong.

However, if they want extra rights for being gay, then where is my rights for wanting to
go outside of my marriage and have other women to marry?

You get my drift?

Both of them are sins. Adultry is just as much as a sin as Homosexuality so should I have the right to get married and just say forget all the rules of life and the Holy Bible.

Why not just do anything you want to do and kill whomever you want. Where do you draw the line? Do you draw this line personally? Do you fall back to something such as the Bible as a standard.

Killing a gay person is just as much of a Sin as doing homosexual acts. Both are sins.

Being African American or being a woman is not a sin. It's the same as being white and a man, that isn't a sin either. Being a Jew isn't a sin either or being a Christian isn't a sin.
Being a muslim isn't a sin.

You can't group Homosexuality or Adultry with the above races, sexes or religions.

oh and I used to live in West Hollywood so I know all about gays. It is the biggest group of people around the entire LA area. So as many people say that I am a hick well I have lived in NYC and I now live in LA.

 

[Docwiz]

Erm...what about all the people that bought off the president to implement these adverse environmental policies? I don't think that even Bush wants to wreck the planet for the sake of fun; there are all the various companies that benefit from it. Not quite everyone is for the environment.

Bush is oil-boy and that is all he cares about is helping his rich oil buddies.
He is about as for the environment as REVEREND Al Sharpton is truely a God fearing Christian. Both of them are not bright.

 

[xsarien]

I said those things were better today, but the other things are a lot worse and things are worse off for everyone as far as morality goes. It hits every family, black white, men, women, poor, rich. It's the entire country with the lack of morals.

"Erosion of morals" is one of those things that's, you know, entirely subjective.

 

[maharg]

The line is simple. Where it harms others. I don't see why the line needs to be placed at where your religion wants it to be, when I have never and will never have any part in your faith. I'm not a born again atheist, I always was one. When you try to force your faith on government, you try to force your faith on me. That harms me by denying me rights my faith (atheism or more accurately agnosticism) grants me.

To the contrary, gay people getting married does not deny you any rights, it does not harm you in any way (you will not go to hell for other people's sins).

And by extension, killing someone undeniably harms them. It removes their right to live.

I don't care what you think is a sin. I shouldn't have to.

 

[levious]

Well not long ago gay people will killed in the USA and even that is much better now.
It is getting better. I don't advocate any violence to anyone, gay or not. That's just wrong.

However, if they want extra rights for being gay, then where is my rights for wanting to
go outside of my marriage and have other women to marry?

You get my drift?

Both of them are sins. Adultry is just as much as a sin as Homosexuality so should I have the right to get married and just say forget all the rules of life and the Holy Bible.

Why not just do anything you want to do and kill whomever you want. Where do you draw the line? Do you draw this line personally? Do you fall back to something such as the Bible as a standard.

Killing a gay person is just as much of a Sin as doing homosexual acts. Both are sins.

Being African American or being a woman is not a sin. It's the same as being white and a man, that isn't a sin either. Being a Jew isn't a sin either or being a Christian isn't a sin.
Being a muslim isn't a sin.

You can't group Homosexuality or Adultry with the above races, sexes or religions.

oh and I used to live in West Hollywood so I know all about gays. It is the biggest group of people around the entire LA area. So as many people say that I am a hick well I have lived in NYC and I now live in LA.

Oh good, for the past 24 hours I've been killing myself not knowing for sure if you were a homophobic bigot as well, now I can have a good holiday with my mind at ease.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

1) Most parents do not care about their children or take time to be with their children and teach them things. They don't spank the children.

Based on what research? Do you have any percentages of parents not caring for their kids, or are you just assuming things?

3) Young adults no longer to into the military which will teach them about disipline and self worth among other things as there is no draft anymore.

For some reason, I think the last time we tried to force people in the military, things that you have been railing against (sex, drugs, and liberalism) became very mainstream.

4) Separation between church and state was invented so that things like in England in which the Catholic Church had a hold on the government
does not take over the entire American government, but since this is no where near happening after school Bible Studies should be okay as well as any other religous gathering (ie Muslims, etc..)

Whats preventing the Bible Studies from taking place at the Church?

Liberals control the schools and what is taught in school and what isn't. Liberals have also taken anything religious out of schools even if it does not involve church and state.

I live in Texas, and I can say with certainty, liberals DON'T control the schools down here, and besides a couple good schools in the wealthier areas, the system is pretty shitty.

Also Reverend Al Sharpton isn't very religious, I don't care if he is a Reverend or not. It's more politically motivated than anything else. If you listen what he says you will see what I am saying.

I have listened, and no, I don't see what you are saying. Please, provide examples where he says he doesn't believe in Jesus.

 

[lachesis]

Well besides our current misfit for a president, I think everyone is for the environment and not just liberals. I am for the environment instead of oil and we should be looking to ween ourselves off of oil and look into other alternatives and I am not a liberal.

I have to disagree. Perhaps everyone is "for" environment, but liberals are "more pro environmental issues" and conservatives are not as pro environmental issues. They put other things more important, such as, putting mandatory, corrupt and revised version of "bible" into our public school, in this case.

It's matter of "priority", I guess, and I do not agree and do not believe in Christian priority of God-Angel-Man-Woman-Child-Nature heirachy, and to be honest, I believe it's an utter bullshit. If schools teach the idea of re-incarnation through nature, perhaps men could find more balanced existence with nature itself.

Anyhow, way off topic, I guess.

lachesis

 

[etiolate]

With that spanking fetish, I'm starting to think Docwiz is Dr Phil.

 

[soundwave05]

This is just the evolution of society. Fact is it's much harder to take the Bible at a literal/face value sensibility when everything that modern science is uncovering (just wait till those Mars rovers do eventually find evidence of life on Mars, lmao).

Society can't be like it was in the 1960s, it just can't. Too much has changed and more will change in the next 20-30 years.

It's the nature of youth to be rebellious, it's simply a matter of the later generations pushing the boundaries further than their parents.

America is really leading the "liberal" charge globally. It's American corporations that want Starbucks and McDonalds on every street corner and girls accessorizing themselves like Britney Spears.

Liberals/conservatives can do what they want, but at the end of the day, American society is a corporate/consumer driven society which inevitably will push boundaries. It's inevitable. It has really nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism in a political sense. It's simply a natural progression.

 

[mrmyth]

Difference being, corporations pander to society. If we stop buying their shit eventually they'll listen. So discounting liberals/conservatives doesn't work. Big business doesn't own us yet, and still needs us to consume.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Well not long ago gay people will killed in the USA and even that is much better now.
It is getting better. I don't advocate any violence to anyone, gay or not. That's just wrong.

Matthew Shephard (Sp) was not that long ago.