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The Literary Works of J.R.R. Tolkien Megathread |OT| Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
- Thread starter Loxley
- Start date
fredrancour
Member
In one of the history of middle earth volumes they have a couple chapters of a book set years after LotR with new characters, but Tolkein never developed it. I don't think there are any fourth age stories.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Tolkien's main 5 books have really been a huge part of my life, but this thread (and the, like, 4 others Dantes was running unofficially) have given me a ton of new stuff to read. It's appreciated, guys.
I did end up getting those Folio versions of the LOTR/The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. They are as awesome in real life as they appeared in the photos. So awesome that the live on my mantle over my fireplace in my new house. My first decoration!
I did end up getting those Folio versions of the LOTR/The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. They are as awesome in real life as they appeared in the photos. So awesome that the live on my mantle over my fireplace in my new house. My first decoration!
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Your talent shines through with those.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
One of the most rousing speeches in the Legendarium is Fëanor's oath.
“Be he foe or friend, be he foul or clean
Brood of Morgoth or bright Vala,
Elda or Maia or Aftercomer,
Man yet unborn upon Middle-earth,
Neither law, nor love, nor league of swords,
Dread nor danger, not Doom itself
Shall defend him from Fëanáro, and Fëanáro’s kin,
Whoso hideth or hoardeth, or in hand taketh,
Finding keepeth or afar casteth
A Silmaril. This swear we all…
Death we will deal him ere Day’s ending,
Woe unto world’s end! Our word hear thou,
Eru Allfather! To the everlasting
Darkness doom us if our deed faileth…
On the holy mountain hear in witness
and our vow remember,
Manwë and Varda!"
This harks back to the Norse lore that Tolkien was so fond of, where Oaths were very important to the peoples involved.
For example, from the Landnámabók.
A ring, weighing two aurar or more, was to lie in every head temple on the altar and every godi was to wear it on his arm at all Law-things which he should hold himself and to redden it in the blood of the cattle which he himself sacrificed there. Every man who had to perform legal duties there had first to take an oath on this ring and name two or more witnesses and say, "I call to witness that I take oath on the ring, a lawful oath, so help me Frey and Njord and the Almightly As (Odin) , to defend or prosecute this case or give the evidence, verdict or judgement which I know to be most true and right and lawful and to perform everything as prescribed by law which I, may have to perform while I am at this Thing."
“Be he foe or friend, be he foul or clean
Brood of Morgoth or bright Vala,
Elda or Maia or Aftercomer,
Man yet unborn upon Middle-earth,
Neither law, nor love, nor league of swords,
Dread nor danger, not Doom itself
Shall defend him from Fëanáro, and Fëanáro’s kin,
Whoso hideth or hoardeth, or in hand taketh,
Finding keepeth or afar casteth
A Silmaril. This swear we all…
Death we will deal him ere Day’s ending,
Woe unto world’s end! Our word hear thou,
Eru Allfather! To the everlasting
Darkness doom us if our deed faileth…
On the holy mountain hear in witness
and our vow remember,
Manwë and Varda!"
This harks back to the Norse lore that Tolkien was so fond of, where Oaths were very important to the peoples involved.
For example, from the Landnámabók.
A ring, weighing two aurar or more, was to lie in every head temple on the altar and every godi was to wear it on his arm at all Law-things which he should hold himself and to redden it in the blood of the cattle which he himself sacrificed there. Every man who had to perform legal duties there had first to take an oath on this ring and name two or more witnesses and say, "I call to witness that I take oath on the ring, a lawful oath, so help me Frey and Njord and the Almightly As (Odin) , to defend or prosecute this case or give the evidence, verdict or judgement which I know to be most true and right and lawful and to perform everything as prescribed by law which I, may have to perform while I am at this Thing."
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Norse mythology is clearly the best mythology. Perhaps this is why Tolkien resonates so strongly with me. My favorite was
"Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spears shall be shaken, Shields shall be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! Death! Death! Death! Forth Eorlingas"
And yeah, the movies change it, but honestly, Hill does such a fantastic job delivering the lines, I can't even be mad at the difference.
"Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spears shall be shaken, Shields shall be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor! Death! Death! Death! Forth Eorlingas"
And yeah, the movies change it, but honestly, Hill does such a fantastic job delivering the lines, I can't even be mad at the difference.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Subscribing to this thread. I need to read more of his stuff.
I definitely agree, for whatever reason I've always found it to be the most interesting (maybe it's because I have a little Danish in me). One of my favorite non-Tolkien books is The Long Ships by Frans G. Bengtsson, reading that really sparked my interest in Norse/viking mythology.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Norse influence is certainly the most evident in the Legendarium, more so than even English Fairy tales
The Dvergatal from the Völuspá being the most obvious example especially in relation to The Hobbit.
10. Þar var Móðsognir mæztr of orðinn
dverga allra, en Durinn annarr;
þeir mannlíkun mörg of gerðu
dvergar í jörðu, sem Durinn sagði.
11. Nýi, Niði, Norðri, Suðri,
Austri, Vestri, Alþjófr, Dvalinn,
Nár ok Náinn Nípingr, Dáinn
Bívurr, Bávurr, Bömburr, Nóri,
Ánn ok Ánarr, Óinn, Mjöðvitnir.
12. Veggr ok Gandalfr, Vindalfr, Þorinn,
Þrár ok Þráinn, Þekkr, Litr ok Vitr,
Nýr ok Nýráðr, nú hefi ek dverga,
Reginn ok Ráðsviðr, rétt of talða.
13. Fíli, Kíli, Fundinn, Náli,
Hefti, Víli, Hannar, Svíurr,
Billingr, Brúni, Bíldr ok Buri,
Frár, Hornbori, Frægr ok Lóni,
Aurvangr, Jari, Eikinskjaldi.
14. Mál er dverga í Dvalins liði
ljóna kindum til Lofars telja,
þeir er sóttu frá salar steini
Aurvanga sjöt til Jöruvalla.
15. Þar var Draupnir ok Dolgþrasir,
Hár, Haugspori, Hlévangr, Glóinn,
Dóri, Óri Dúfr, Andvari
Skirfir, Virfir, Skáfiðr, Ái.
16. Alfr ok Yngvi, Eikinskjaldi,
Fjalarr ok Frosti, Finnr ok Ginnarr;
þat mun æ uppi meðan öld lifir,
langniðja tal Lofars hafat.
Translation
10. There was Motsognir | the mightiest made
Of all the dwarfs, | and Durin next;
Many a likeness | of men they made,
The dwarfs in the earth, | as Durin said.
11. Nyi and Nithi, | Northri and Suthri,
Austri and Vestri, | Althjof, Dvalin,
Nar and Nain, | Niping, Dain,
Bifur, Bofur, | Bombur, Nori,
An and Onar, | Ai, Mjothvitnir.
12. Vigg and Gandalf | Vindalf, Thrain,
Thekk and Thorin, | Thror, Vit and Lit,
Nyr and Nyrath,-- | now have I told--
Regin and Rathsvith-- | the list aright.
13. Fili, Kili, | Fundin, Nali,
Hepti, Vili, | Hannar, Sviur,
(Billing, Bruni, | Bildr and Buri,)
Frar, Hornbori, | Fræg and Loni,
Aurvang, Jari, | Eikinskjaldi.
14. The race of the dwarfs | in Dvalin's throng
Down to Lofar | the list must I tell;
The rocks they left, | and through wet lands
They sought a home | in the fields of sand.
15. There were Draupnir | and Dolgthrasir,
Hor, Haugspori, | Hlevang, Gloin,
Dori, Ori, | Duf, Andvari,
Skirfir, Virfir, | Skafith, Ai.
16. Alf and Yngvi, | Eikinskjaldi,
Fjalar and Frosti, | Finn and Ginnar;
So for all time | shall the tale be known,
The list of all | the forbears of Lofar.
Spot The Hobbit characters.
The Dvergatal from the Völuspá being the most obvious example especially in relation to The Hobbit.
10. Þar var Móðsognir mæztr of orðinn
dverga allra, en Durinn annarr;
þeir mannlíkun mörg of gerðu
dvergar í jörðu, sem Durinn sagði.
11. Nýi, Niði, Norðri, Suðri,
Austri, Vestri, Alþjófr, Dvalinn,
Nár ok Náinn Nípingr, Dáinn
Bívurr, Bávurr, Bömburr, Nóri,
Ánn ok Ánarr, Óinn, Mjöðvitnir.
12. Veggr ok Gandalfr, Vindalfr, Þorinn,
Þrár ok Þráinn, Þekkr, Litr ok Vitr,
Nýr ok Nýráðr, nú hefi ek dverga,
Reginn ok Ráðsviðr, rétt of talða.
13. Fíli, Kíli, Fundinn, Náli,
Hefti, Víli, Hannar, Svíurr,
Billingr, Brúni, Bíldr ok Buri,
Frár, Hornbori, Frægr ok Lóni,
Aurvangr, Jari, Eikinskjaldi.
14. Mál er dverga í Dvalins liði
ljóna kindum til Lofars telja,
þeir er sóttu frá salar steini
Aurvanga sjöt til Jöruvalla.
15. Þar var Draupnir ok Dolgþrasir,
Hár, Haugspori, Hlévangr, Glóinn,
Dóri, Óri Dúfr, Andvari
Skirfir, Virfir, Skáfiðr, Ái.
16. Alfr ok Yngvi, Eikinskjaldi,
Fjalarr ok Frosti, Finnr ok Ginnarr;
þat mun æ uppi meðan öld lifir,
langniðja tal Lofars hafat.
Translation
10. There was Motsognir | the mightiest made
Of all the dwarfs, | and Durin next;
Many a likeness | of men they made,
The dwarfs in the earth, | as Durin said.
11. Nyi and Nithi, | Northri and Suthri,
Austri and Vestri, | Althjof, Dvalin,
Nar and Nain, | Niping, Dain,
Bifur, Bofur, | Bombur, Nori,
An and Onar, | Ai, Mjothvitnir.
12. Vigg and Gandalf | Vindalf, Thrain,
Thekk and Thorin, | Thror, Vit and Lit,
Nyr and Nyrath,-- | now have I told--
Regin and Rathsvith-- | the list aright.
13. Fili, Kili, | Fundin, Nali,
Hepti, Vili, | Hannar, Sviur,
(Billing, Bruni, | Bildr and Buri,)
Frar, Hornbori, | Fræg and Loni,
Aurvang, Jari, | Eikinskjaldi.
14. The race of the dwarfs | in Dvalin's throng
Down to Lofar | the list must I tell;
The rocks they left, | and through wet lands
They sought a home | in the fields of sand.
15. There were Draupnir | and Dolgthrasir,
Hor, Haugspori, | Hlevang, Gloin,
Dori, Ori, | Duf, Andvari,
Skirfir, Virfir, | Skafith, Ai.
16. Alf and Yngvi, | Eikinskjaldi,
Fjalar and Frosti, | Finn and Ginnar;
So for all time | shall the tale be known,
The list of all | the forbears of Lofar.
Spot The Hobbit characters.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
I've decided to read The Silmarilion again, the last - and only - time I did was about five years ago. Over the last few months (and while creating this thread) it occurred to me that I simply don't remember a whole lot from it. I can recall vague bits, but always have to look up to make sure what I remember is correct.
This time however, I've decided to actually take notes while reading it. Taking note of major characters, their traits and characteristics, in addition to major events and such. This is partially because I am terrible at keeping track of the characters and events of any book since I tend to be a slow reader and I forget very easily. So far it has actually been pretty fun, partially since I tend to annotate the notes with my own personal opinions on the people and places. In addition, I'm going to be listening to Corey Olsen's Silmarillion Seminars as I progress.
It's like a book report for school, but without limitations and a due date
This time however, I've decided to actually take notes while reading it. Taking note of major characters, their traits and characteristics, in addition to major events and such. This is partially because I am terrible at keeping track of the characters and events of any book since I tend to be a slow reader and I forget very easily. So far it has actually been pretty fun, partially since I tend to annotate the notes with my own personal opinions on the people and places. In addition, I'm going to be listening to Corey Olsen's Silmarillion Seminars as I progress.
It's like a book report for school, but without limitations and a due date
StreetsAhead
Member
Goodness, I haven't seen a photograph of Christopher in about 10 years. He looks reasonably good for an 88 year old man, but for some reason he was still about sixty in my head. I wonder, is there a grandchild (or great grandchild) willing to continue the legacy of J. R. R. in the same manner once Christoper passes away?
As in continue with fleshing out Tolkien's unpublished documents/manuscripts? It's hard to say. J.R.R. Tolkien's grandson Michael is a poet and sits on the board of the Tolkien Estate, but to my knowledge Christopher Tolkien hasn't been grooming any heir of his to take his place as master and commander of the Tolkien ship once he passes (however given the private and secluded nature of the Tolkien family, I could be wrong). Christopher Tolkien's oldest son Simon is a writer himself, but from what I know has never expressed interest in taking over for his father.
I think it goes without saying that we all certainly hope there is someone to carry on the literary legacy as passionately and lovingly as Christopher has, but it remains to be seen.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
His sister Priscilla is next in line to take the role of executor of the Estate. She is certainly the most sympathetic towards her father's legacy apart from Christopher and does share similar views towards the commercialization of Middle-earth and the LOTR/Hobbit properties.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
On the topic of the Legendarium, I put forward this question. Who was the greatest of the Race of Men?
Bëor, Beren, Hurin, Huor, Morwen, Andreth, Turin, Tuor, Eärendil, Elendil, Aragorn.
Or someone else.
Bëor, Beren, Hurin, Huor, Morwen, Andreth, Turin, Tuor, Eärendil, Elendil, Aragorn.
Or someone else.
I'm fascinated by this as well, did everything just die out?
So sad if true.
I thought the world was saved with Sauron being taken care of.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
The world carried on fine in Tolkien's mind According to him we are currently in the Seventh Age.
The New Shadow, the sequel to The Lord of the Rings would have been a thriller of sorts involving cults indulging in the dark arts and the Blue Wizards may have been involved in the narrative.
The destruction of the One Ring meant that all the rings of power also became useless. The elves pretty much all left for Valinor. The dwarves retreated into their caves and disappeared. The fourth age was the dominion of men. As far as I know Aragorn's line pretty much continued uncontested for a long time.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Edmond Dantès;47336791 said:
Back when I was a kid, I honestly thought that would be what was going to happen. I didn't even know who Bard was, so I was disappointed to say the least. That's probably why I stopped reading after Smaug's death, for a younger me, that was "it" for the plot.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
That's the thing about The Hobbit, Smaug is billed as the great adversary that needs to be conquered, but he's only a mere hurdle on the way in the narrative. The true plot of The Hobbit is Bilbo's adventure and growth as a character with his Tookish side coming to the fore before it lays dormant once again, ready in waiting for its final occurrences in The Lord of the Rings. The Dwarves and Erebor, secondary, everything else, tertiary.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
An Unexpected Art Show
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/02/09/68954-an-unexpected-art-show-featured-artist/
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/02/09/68954-an-unexpected-art-show-featured-artist/
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Glad to see the official JRRT thread is up. I should really be more active here, but I've got a ton of stuff on my mind nowadays as I'm applying for jobs due to planning to move to the other side of the country.
I'm in the middle of a job search myself, so I'm not quite as active in this thread as I'd like to be just yet.
Ive been listening to the BBC radio adaptation of LOTR recently and I really enjoy it. Are there any other good adaptations out there?
Also why is "the time of the elves coming to an end"? The fourth age is the end of elves and the age of men but does that mean that all elves leave Middle Earth and if so, why?
Also why is "the time of the elves coming to an end"? The fourth age is the end of elves and the age of men but does that mean that all elves leave Middle Earth and if so, why?
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
The BBC adaptation is the best you'll come across. There aren't any others except the films.
The Elves were diminishing in strength and spirit especially after the fall of Sauron and his Ring. Without the Rings of Power (Narya, Nenya and Vilya) the Elves could no longer stem the tide of progress. They were essentially luddites and represented Tolkien's views on industrialization, but their leaving of Middle-earth essentially mirrored his coming to terms with the inevitability of industrial progress.
Also, the Race of Men were preordained by Eru to become the dominant species on Arda.
An Elf remaining in Middle-earth would have eventually diminished so much that their physical body would be gone leaving only the spirit (hröa) which would be invisible to the Race of Men.
Barnaby_Jones
Member
I too own the collection of cassette tapes by the BBC and have been thinking about listening to them however I've never really taken to audiobooks as much as I have physical books.
I think what I'll do instead is keep them forever and ever and ever and just buy the books. Over the past few months I've been going on a bit of a bender with ME lore and so I think it's about time I dove in and started reading from the original sources rather than just from wikis and such.
It is this one we're referencing right?
I think what I'll do instead is keep them forever and ever and ever and just buy the books. Over the past few months I've been going on a bit of a bender with ME lore and so I think it's about time I dove in and started reading from the original sources rather than just from wikis and such.
It is this one we're referencing right?
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Yes, that's the one. Ian Holm plays Frodo in this adaptation.I too own the collection of cassette tapes by the BBC and have been thinking about listening to them however I've never really taken to audiobooks as much as I have physical books.
I think what I'll do instead is keep them forever and ever and ever and just buy the books. Over the past few months I've been going on a bit of a bender with ME lore and so I think it's about time I dove in and started reading from the original sources rather than just from wikis and such.
It is this one we're referencing right?
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
They're up on Youtube.
Candeldandel
Member
Edmond Dantès;47586149 said:
I will also have to listen to them, because... I find the books very hard to read
Which I don't like to admit. I can only hope that hearing them aloud will change that.O god, don't hate me!
Edit: That cassette ... set ... is retro-tastically awesome, though. I should scour some flea markets and see if I can find me my own!
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Ian Holm as Frodo is a very great thing.I will also have to listen to them, because... I find the books very hard to read
O god, don't hate me!
Barnaby_Jones
Member
As it turns out, I have no way to play cassettes any more until I buy something dirt cheap at the end of the month... so books it is for now!
I will also have to listen to them, because... I find the books very hard to read
O god, don't hate me!
Edit: That cassette ... set ... is retro-tastically awesome, though. I should scour some flea markets and see if I can find me my own!
That's a fairly common complaint about Tolkien's style, nothing to be embarrassed about. The first time I tried to read the Lord of the Rings around 2003 leading up to Return of the King's release, I made it about 10 pages into Fellowship before giving up. I was excited to actually read from the material whence my new favorite movies came, but I just kept thinking to myself "Is this even English? Who talks like this?". I don't think I'd go so far as to call Tolkien an acquired taste, but the way he writes - dialogue in particular - takes a bit of getting used to. It's a very English style of writing, even then pretty specific to Tolkien based off of what I've seen.
That's what caught me off guard at first, I think. Most of the books I'd read up to that point where the 'American Classics' seemingly required by the US government to be forced on all Public School students, like Catcher in the Rye, Huck Finn, Of Mice and Men, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc. I had never read anything like The Lord of the Rings before (mirroring my experience with never having seen anything like the films before).
Even when I finally got over the initial hump a couple years later and began to really enjoy the books, I still couldn't get over Tolkien's odd habit of what I considered to be "Inappropriate and copious use of exclamation marks".
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Haha, yeah, reading and rereading (then reading again) Tolkein works in my formative years did irrepairable damage to my ability to withstand the temptation of flowery prose, (which leaks out now and again on here about things I'm impassioned about).
They look like kids, especially in the face. Not sure I like that, really.
And wasn't it the other of Gandalf's plans (to awaken the Hobbit people to fight The Enemy)?
Love the thread; finally had an opportunity to grok thru it with the care it deserves.
They look like kids, especially in the face. Not sure I like that, really.
Edmond Dantès;47471995 said:
And wasn't it the other of Gandalf's plans (to awaken the Hobbit people to fight The Enemy)?
Love the thread; finally had an opportunity to grok thru it with the care it deserves.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Certainly something he would have had on his mind to do during his time in Middle-earth; to prepare the Hobbits for the harshness of the world and the evils in it beyond the borders of The Shire.Haha, yeah, reading and rereading (then reading again) Tolkein works in my formative years did irrepairable damage to my ability to withstand the temptation of flowery prose, (which leaks out now and again on here about things I'm impassioned about).
They look like kids, especially in the face. Not sure I like that, really.
And wasn't it the other of Gandalf's plans (to awaken the Hobbit people to fight The Enemy)?
Love the thread; finally had an opportunity to grok thru it with the care it deserves.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Love this part of the Valaquenta.
So very reminiscent of John Milton's stirring depiction of Lucifer in Paradise Lost.
He above the rest
In shape and gesture proudly eminent
Stood like a tower. His form had yet not lost
All her original brightness, nor appeared
Less than archangel ruined, and th' excess
Of glory obscured: as when the sun new-risen
Looks through the horizontal misty air
Shorn of his beams, or from behind the moon
In dim eclipse disastrous twilight sheds
On half the nations, and with fear of change
Perplexes monarchs. Darkened so, yet shone
Above them all th' archangel; but his face
Deep scars of thunder had intrenched, and care
Sat on his faded cheek, but under brows
Of dauntless courage, and considerate pride
Waiting revenge. Cruel his eye, but cast
Signs of remorse and passion to behold
The fellows of his crime , the followers rather
(Far other once beheld in bliss), condemned
Forever now to have their lot in pain.
Forthwith upright he rears from off the pool
His mighty stature; on each hand the flames
Driv'n backward slope their pointing spires and, roll'd
In billows, leave i' th' midst a horrid vale.
Then with expanded wings he steers his flight
Aloft, incumbent on the dusky air,
That felt unusual weight, till on dry land
He lights—if it were land that ever burn'd
With solid, as the lake with liquid fire,
And such appear'd in hue as when the force
Of subterranean wind transports a hill
Torn from Pelorus, or the shatter'd side
Of thund'ring Ætna, whose combustible
And fuell'd entrails, thence conceiving fire,
Sublim'd with mineral fury, aid the winds,
And leave a singed bottom all involv'd
With stench and smoke: such resting found the sole
Of unblest feet. Him follow'd his next mate,
Both glorying to have scap'd the Stygian flood
As Gods, and by their own recover'd strength,
Not by the sufferance of Supernal Power.
"Is this the region, this the soil, the clime,"
Said then the lost Archangel, "this the seat
That we must change for Heav'n?—this mournful gloom
For that celestial light? Be it so, since he
Who now is sovran can dispose and bid
What shall be right: farthest from him is best
Whom reason hath equall'd, force hath made supreme
Above his equals. Farewell, happy fields
Where joy for ever dwells! hail horrors, hail
Infernal world! and thou, profoundest Hell,
Receive thy new possessor: one who brings
A mind not to be chang'd by place or time.
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.
What matter where, if I be still the same
And what I should be, all but less than he
Whom thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heav'n.
But wherefore let we then our faithful friends,
Th' associates and co-partners of our loss,
Lie thus astonish'd on th' oblivious pool,
And call them not to share with us their part
In this unhappy mansion, or once more
With rallied arms to try what may be yet
Regain'd in Heav'n, or what more lost in Hell?"
So very reminiscent of John Milton's stirring depiction of Lucifer in Paradise Lost.
He above the rest
In shape and gesture proudly eminent
Stood like a tower. His form had yet not lost
All her original brightness, nor appeared
Less than archangel ruined, and th' excess
Of glory obscured: as when the sun new-risen
Looks through the horizontal misty air
Shorn of his beams, or from behind the moon
In dim eclipse disastrous twilight sheds
On half the nations, and with fear of change
Perplexes monarchs. Darkened so, yet shone
Above them all th' archangel; but his face
Deep scars of thunder had intrenched, and care
Sat on his faded cheek, but under brows
Of dauntless courage, and considerate pride
Waiting revenge. Cruel his eye, but cast
Signs of remorse and passion to behold
The fellows of his crime , the followers rather
(Far other once beheld in bliss), condemned
Forever now to have their lot in pain.
Forthwith upright he rears from off the pool
His mighty stature; on each hand the flames
Driv'n backward slope their pointing spires and, roll'd
In billows, leave i' th' midst a horrid vale.
Then with expanded wings he steers his flight
Aloft, incumbent on the dusky air,
That felt unusual weight, till on dry land
He lights—if it were land that ever burn'd
With solid, as the lake with liquid fire,
And such appear'd in hue as when the force
Of subterranean wind transports a hill
Torn from Pelorus, or the shatter'd side
Of thund'ring Ætna, whose combustible
And fuell'd entrails, thence conceiving fire,
Sublim'd with mineral fury, aid the winds,
And leave a singed bottom all involv'd
With stench and smoke: such resting found the sole
Of unblest feet. Him follow'd his next mate,
Both glorying to have scap'd the Stygian flood
As Gods, and by their own recover'd strength,
Not by the sufferance of Supernal Power.
"Is this the region, this the soil, the clime,"
Said then the lost Archangel, "this the seat
That we must change for Heav'n?—this mournful gloom
For that celestial light? Be it so, since he
Who now is sovran can dispose and bid
What shall be right: farthest from him is best
Whom reason hath equall'd, force hath made supreme
Above his equals. Farewell, happy fields
Where joy for ever dwells! hail horrors, hail
Infernal world! and thou, profoundest Hell,
Receive thy new possessor: one who brings
A mind not to be chang'd by place or time.
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.
What matter where, if I be still the same
And what I should be, all but less than he
Whom thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heav'n.
But wherefore let we then our faithful friends,
Th' associates and co-partners of our loss,
Lie thus astonish'd on th' oblivious pool,
And call them not to share with us their part
In this unhappy mansion, or once more
With rallied arms to try what may be yet
Regain'd in Heav'n, or what more lost in Hell?"
Jake Tower
Banned
Just ordered The Annotated Hobbit (and Hyrule Historia) from amazon, so I'll have some things to discuss soon.
I just re-read The Silmarillion and I'm presently rereading The Children of Húrin.
I just re-read The Silmarillion and I'm presently rereading The Children of Húrin.
OP Update - Part 4 will be added tomorrow.
Also, I decided to make my restrictions on discussions of adaptions of Tolkien's works much more loose. I felt the thread was maybe just a tad too restrictive with the original guidelines. It's pretty much inevitable that we're going to talk about them in accordance with the books.
So, as of right now, the only adaptions that are off-limits for discussion in this thread are Jackson's films. They have their own OT's so any debates about them should be relegated to those threads. I won't be adding a section to the OP dedicated to adaptions or anything, but they're open for discussion, just remember they're not the primary focus of this thread
The Annotated Hobbit is an excellent choice, my favorite version of the book outside of the Illustrated Edition.
Also, I decided to make my restrictions on discussions of adaptions of Tolkien's works much more loose. I felt the thread was maybe just a tad too restrictive with the original guidelines. It's pretty much inevitable that we're going to talk about them in accordance with the books.
So, as of right now, the only adaptions that are off-limits for discussion in this thread are Jackson's films. They have their own OT's so any debates about them should be relegated to those threads. I won't be adding a section to the OP dedicated to adaptions or anything, but they're open for discussion, just remember they're not the primary focus of this thread
The Annotated Hobbit is an excellent choice, my favorite version of the book outside of the Illustrated Edition.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
1st editions of the Lord of the Rings trilogy sell for £24,000 at an auction in South Cerney.
http://www.wiltsglosstandard.co.uk/news/10216947.Hobbit_fever_catches_at_South_Cerney_auction_house/
http://www.wiltsglosstandard.co.uk/news/10216947.Hobbit_fever_catches_at_South_Cerney_auction_house/
Have a very random question here - I've been wanting to do a Lord of the Rings re-read, which would also be my first in English (not a native speaker, only read a translated version before). But I've also never read the Silmarillion, and I was wondering - does the additional insight gained from reading it improve the LoTR reading experience?
Or, in short - should I read Silmarillion first before doing a LoTR re-read?
Or, in short - should I read Silmarillion first before doing a LoTR re-read?
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
In short yes.Have a very random question here - I've been wanting to do a Lord of the Rings re-read, which would also be my first in English (not a native speaker, only read a translated version before). But I've also never read the Silmarillion, and I was wondering - does the additional insight gained from reading it improve the LoTR reading experience?
Or, in short - should I read Silmarillion first before doing a LoTR re-read?
Tolkien intended for The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings to be published at the same time, they would have served as companion pieces to each other. The Silmarillion fills in various bits of The Lord of the Rings that references previous history, but also, mainly it explains the history of Arda and what has led up to the events in The Lord of the Rings.
Before the Lord of the Rings of Power there was a greater evil in the world than him... his Master.
I first read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit about nine years ago, a little after the last movie came out. I don't really think I was ready to read it (or perhaps "not approaching it correctly" is better), and so I didn't really enjoy it as much as I might have. I found a lot of the world-building tedious and I skimmed over the poems and songs and essentially had a "Are we there yet?" perspective.
But all these great topics about the Legendarium and especially Mr. Dantés' wonderful posts have gotten me interested again. I also rewatched the extended editions at the beginning of the year, which also interested me in finding out what I was missing. I also saw The Hobbit in theaters, so I decided to reread that. I read The Annotated Hobbit, and over the last three days I've read The Fellowship of the Ring and half of The Two Towers. I'm going to read The Silmarillion after I finish The Return of the King.
Maybe it's just being primed by reading the topics but I'm finding all the songs and world-building and myths much more interesting this go round. The first half of Fellowship had some stuff that was a bit of a slog (the forest + Tom Bombadil dragged), but overall it was enjoyable. And The Two Towers is actually very fast-paced. I knew I wasn't crazy for thinking that the Ents plot was far more obnoxiously slow in the movies. And poor Tom Bombadil getting his lines stolen by a tree.
But all these great topics about the Legendarium and especially Mr. Dantés' wonderful posts have gotten me interested again. I also rewatched the extended editions at the beginning of the year, which also interested me in finding out what I was missing. I also saw The Hobbit in theaters, so I decided to reread that. I read The Annotated Hobbit, and over the last three days I've read The Fellowship of the Ring and half of The Two Towers. I'm going to read The Silmarillion after I finish The Return of the King.
Maybe it's just being primed by reading the topics but I'm finding all the songs and world-building and myths much more interesting this go round. The first half of Fellowship had some stuff that was a bit of a slog (the forest + Tom Bombadil dragged), but overall it was enjoyable. And The Two Towers is actually very fast-paced. I knew I wasn't crazy for thinking that the Ents plot was far more obnoxiously slow in the movies. And poor Tom Bombadil getting his lines stolen by a tree.
Edmond Dantès;47627882 said:In short yes.
Tolkien intended for The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings to be published at the same time, they would have served as companion pieces to each other. The Silmarillion fills in various bits of The Lord of the Rings that references previous history, but also, mainly it explains the history of Arda and what has led up to the events in The Lord of the Rings.
Before the Lord of the Rings of Power there was a greater evil in the world than him... his Master.
I don't think this a good suggestion. It's too encyclopedic. Not to mention that it's written in a completely different style. Sil is meant for those already into Tolkien. LOTR first would be my suggestion.
He's already read LOTR (but not in English) so reading The Silmarillion before or alongside it now makes sense to me. I found The Silmarillion hard to get into initially, but once you're past the early sections it gets a lot easier.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Got two job interviews in Oslo next week (an IT maintenance job on Monday and a customer support job on Tuesday), so I'll be flying down on Sunday. Wish me luck
Yeah, it blew my mind too the first time I read LotR. I had read some fantasy prior to LotR, but nothing on the scale of Tolkien's legendarium. And seeing the movie adaptions.. Man, it was like a dream come to life. Just amazing.
Candeldandel
Member
Sigh. I know I shouldn't be embarassed
I've read up to Bree at least 5 times before becoming exhausted with the flowery descriptions and roundabout dialogue. Dialogue is my favorite part of writing (both reading & writing it!); it lends to reflecting the environment of the author (with exceptions, of course) and I think that might be one of the main hurdles I have to overcome with these books. I know next to nothing about the world that Tolkien lived in, so maybe the fact that it leaks in to his writing throws me off a wee bit Also, having something read to you is much different than reading it yourself, which is a) why I'm excited about the audio on the Tubes, and b) probably why I loved the Hobbit so much when I was younger.And yeah, I can very much see it as an acquired taste. What makes it even harder is that, though sometimes I feel like taking a break from a book can help, with LOTR it just makes it harder to remember what happened! It is very similar to reading something in a different language... it just happens to be my own :\
Sigh. I know I shouldn't be embarassed
And yeah, I can very much see it as an acquired taste. What makes it even harder is that, though sometimes I feel like taking a break from a book can help, with LOTR it just makes it harder to remember what happened! It is very similar to reading something in a different language... it just happens to be my own :\
I'm trying to remedy that problem while I re-read the Silmarillion, since I have the short-term memory of a chicken. My solution is to simply take notes while I reading, which I haven't done for a book since high school. Feels weird to be doing it for recreation, but I'm enjoying it.
And yes, I am very much aware of the irony of being an artist with terrible handwriting
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Studying Tolkien for fun is quite the pleasure.I'm trying to remedy that problem while I re-read the Silmarillion, since I have the short-term memory of a chicken. My solution is to simply take notes while I reading, which I haven't done for a book since high school. Feels weird to be doing it for recreation, but I'm enjoying it.
And yes, I am very much aware of the irony of being an artist with terrible handwriting