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The Literary Works of J.R.R. Tolkien Megathread |OT| Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
An interactive analysis of Tolkien's works

http://lotrproject.com/statistics/books/


Posters - Visualizations of Middle-Earth

elvestimeline_medium.png
hobbit1_medium.png


http://lotrproject.com/statistics/books/posters
 

agrajag

Banned
Ted Nasmith... is not my favorite. He seems very mechanical to me, and I dislike his depictions of characters. I prefer Alan Lee and John Howe much more, and even with Howe I have a lot of problems, but stylistically I can't find much flaw with him. Just a different vision. I prefer the black and white art of that russian artist I posted a few pages back, it's more realistic to me (even though some of Howe's stuff is very realistic-looking, like the one of Nienor and Glaurung), and not as fantastical. I like how he depicted a Balrog more like a shadowy human figure than a bull-horned demon. But Howe has some spectacular stuff. My favorite is the Nazgul with a Barad Dur backdrop.

johnhowe_thedarktower.jpg
 

agrajag

Banned
yeah, that's the one I was talking about, i's fantastic! I love the Glaurung and Turin one too. Although I imagined the dragon a bit larger.
 
i hope you guys dont mind me post this here, but i thought maybe you'd appreciate these:





source

^^

Awww, I love them!! The last one with the hobbits is my favorite, wow. That sky!

Loxley, I agree, watercolor is sublime, but holy crap is it hard to use. It will never cease to be a favorite, though <3
 
Earlier this week I used a hand cream named Estolan at work, and I remembered its name because I remembered a place called Estolad on a map from a Tolkien book.

Never let it be said again that knowledge of Tolkien doesn't have any practical use!
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Pauline Baynes' artwork for Smith of Wooten Major is fantastic. The only artist Tolkien really trusted to illustrate his work, although he was critical at times, hence the infamous detailed Gollum description.

ibwUoq4GVf9nA9.jpg



Ted Nasmith's attempted Smith as well.

i9l7BBpj46Wx1.jpg


Doesn't really have the same charm though.


I'd also recommend this copy of Poems and Stories, which features;
  • The Adventures of Tom Bombadil
  • The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth Beorhthelm's Son
  • On Fairy Stories
  • Leaf by Niggle
  • Farmer Giles of Ham
  • Smith of Wootton Major
i6qgMo7z3TCAa.gif


i97pXeoDQUpj2.jpg


ibqISLZtZaVetR.jpg
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Dude, these are complete mismatches!
Yeah, Luthien would be more than a match for Aragorn, yet alone Arwen, but in terms of beauty, the most beautiful of the First age and the most beautiful of the Third age.

Eonwe and Gandalf were both of Manwe's order. One was the wisest of the Maiar, the other the mightiest in arms. But the pen is mightier than sword.

Durin and Mim were both forefathers to the latter Dwarves. Durin's people being of noble kind, Mim's folk been the main cause of the strife with the Elves after Thingol's slaughter. But who was more influential, rathen than the greater warrior.
 
So apparently in the original versions of the Hobbit there's references to things being "like a steam train" and other modern world references. It's always interesting to hear about things like that.
 
So Melkor was pissed that he couldn't create due to a lack of command over the flame and thus wanted to corrupt the song to introduce evil,into the world?

At what point did he weaken himself to ensure that his evil essence would forever haunt all the lands?

Had he won, would he rule or would he simply torture all creation to death? What was the end goal?
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
So Melkor was pissed that he couldn't create due to a lack of command over the flame and thus wanted to corrupt the song to introduce evil,into the world?

At what point did he weaken himself to ensure that his evil essence would forever haunt all the lands?

Had he won, would he rule or would he simply torture all creation to death? What was the end goal?
He had essentially become nihilistic. His original intentions were to rule Arda as Manwe did (or so he thought Manwe did), feeling himself on par with Eru himself even though he lacked the flame imperishable, but by the end all he wanted was complete destruction of Arda, if he had won he would have gone out of his way to wipe everything out, even his own hosts would be unsafe from him.
 
So apparently in the original versions of the Hobbit there's references to things being "like a steam train" and other modern world references. It's always interesting to hear about things like that.

It's funny, but it doesn't feel inherently out of place to have the narrator say that. The book, in my memory at least, has a storyteller-style narration that a historian- style one. It was very clearly a more modern person saying "waaay back in the day some cool stuff happened" rather than a situation where it's as if I just unearthed a rare historical volume and have a narrator that is saying "let me doth tell you of the events that have transpired." An old granddad relating folklore to his kids would totally use a modern-day comparison for metaphor purposes without batting an eyelash.

Of course, in light of the rest of the legendarium, it also makes sense that he edited things like that out of the book.



EDIT: In addition, I love the interpretation of minas tirith in that map above. I'd let the movie version, with concentric walls, dominate my imagination without ever considering alternatives like that.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
I've talked about this before in another thread, The Hobbit in draft stage was really quite a different beast.

Just some of the examples from the first few phrases of drafting;

Thorin was originally known as Gandalf the Dwarf, didn't change permanently until the third phase of development
Gandalf was Bladorthin, which is more in keeping with Tolkien's mythos rather than the Norse 'Gandalf'
Smaug was known as Pryftan the Dragon
Beorn was known as Medwed
The Goblin King mentioned early in the story been beheaded and hence the game of golf been invented was called Fingolfin, the golfin an obvious reference to golf. The name eventually went to the great Elven Lord most famous for challenging Melkor to single combat.

The Necromancer was called Thu the Necromancer and was mentioned in the Lay of Lethian.

His development goes as follows:

Tu/Fangli (bad/good wizards from the Lost Tales) > Tevildo The Lord of Cats (a subordinate of Melko (Melko been Melkor's original name)) > Thu the Necromancer > The Necromancer > Sauron the Great/The Lord of Werewolves/Annatar Lord of Gifts/Gorthaur the Cruel/Mairon of Aule.

Beren and Luthien were mentioned in The Hobbit during the drafting phase just as in The Lord of the Rings, before been dropped.

Bilbo was originally intended to kill Pryftan, rather than Bard who had not yet been conceived. Bard was hence created to fill a void very quickly, explaining his sudden appearance with little backstory

Thorin was also a candidate. He was originally intended to survive and become King under the Mountain, instead of dying in the Battle of the Five Armies with Kili and Fili (originally his great-nephews).

As for the battle, it wasn't originally intended to happen, rather a political end with Bladorthin negotiating peace.

A battle would occur though, but a much smaller one with elves and goblins and men , no wargs, dwarves, eagles or Medwed.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
A fascinating excerpt from the abandoned Legendarium:
Next of the Valar to arrive were Ulmo with Salmar and Aulë with Palúrien, and close behind them came many more of the Valar: Ossë, Ónen, Tulkas, Lórien, Mandos, Vána, Nienna, and Oromë. Arriving late were the brother and sister Makar and Meássë, and Rúmil suggested that they would have best never entered the world at all, as they delighted in Melko's chaos and were among the Ainur who followed his divergent theme in the Music. Last to arrive was the youngest Vala Omar, singing as came.

With the Valar now gathered in the world, Manwë asked how the world would be permitted to flourish according to Ilúvatar's designs if Melko continued to cause uproar. Tulkas and Mandos were sent to find him, being as Melko feared them more than any others among the Valar, and he was brought before Manwë to answer for his deeds. He made the excuse that he had simply been enjoying the new world and promised that he would do nothing against Manwë's lordship or the lordships of the other Valar. It was Melko's belief that each Vala should live alone where s/he was most pleased and should not interfere with the domains of the other Valar. Some of the Valar trusted Melko's words; others continued to doubt.

Now, Rúmil paused to explain the geography of the early world. Beginning in the east were the Great Lands, where the Men now dwell. Moving westward, one crossed the Great Sea, then reached the Magic Isles. There, one entered the Shadowy Seas, which were in fact a part of the Great Seas, before reaching the next set of islands, the Twilit Isles. The Shadowy Seas ended at Eruman (also called Arvalin), the southern portion of the western lands that contained Valinor. Continuing to move westward, at the extreme western edge of the world, one ends at the Outer Ocean (Vai) where Ulmo dwells.

Four extra Valar, two of which who take delight in Melko's acts. A far less haughty Melko and geographical nomenclature at variance with the established Legendarium.
 

dc89

Member
Maybe this isn't the thread to ask this question but hey ho:

What is actually in the phial that Galadriel gives to Frodo as a gift. She says it's the" Light of Earendil - our most beloved star."

On Wikipedia it says he was an elf, but what significance does he have and what is in that bottle, surely it's not just water!?
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Maybe this isn't the thread to ask this question but hey ho:

What is actually in the phial that Galadriel gives to Frodo as a gift. She says it's the" Light of Earendil - our most beloved star."

On Wikipedia it says he was an elf, but what significance does he have and what is in that bottle, surely it's not just water!?
Earendil was a human mariner who ended up in possession of the Silmaril that Beren and Luthien captured after Melkor stole them (three altogether) from Finwe, the father of Feanor. The phial contained the light of the Silmaril, while the Silmarils in general contained the last remnants of the light of the Two Trees of Valinor (Laurelin and Telperion) which Ungoliant the mother of all spiders destroyed.

That's why it's so effective at warding off evil. It's pure light originally created by the Valar.
 

dc89

Member
Edmond Dantès;48900372 said:
Earendil was a human mariner who ended up in possession of the Silmaril that Beren and Luthien captured after Melkor stole them (three altogether) from Finwe, the father of Feanor. The phial contained the light of the Silmaril, while the Silmarils in general contained the last remnants of the light of the Two Trees of Valinor (Laurelin and Telperion) which Ungoliant the mother of all spiders destroyed.

That's why it's so effective at warding off evil. It's pure light originally created by the Valar.

Incredible when you think about it.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
The Númenóreans were a fascinating bunch. Not only the greatest military might that Arda had even seen (and that includes Melkor's host) but the most advanced race in the three ages of Arda that Tolkien wrote about, only the Orcs came close in terms of machinery.

numenor-map.gif


Atalantë indeed.
 
Is there anywhere in LotR that they talked about the orcs'/Sauron's machinery/tech? I don't actually remember any examples of it beyond "saruman really fucking hates trees."

I mean, people talk about the book as tech vs nature but it never actually felt like anyone tried to argue that technology was inherently bad at any point in the book. Maybe the bit about the mill during the scouring of the shire? I seem to remember irrationally intense hate for it, and that they tore it down and emulated the old design, but just chalked it up to general anger at reminders of 'sharkey's' spiteful conquest.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Is there anywhere in LotR that they talked about the orcs'/Sauron's machinery/tech? I don't actually remember any examples of it beyond "saruman really fucking hates trees."

I mean, people talk about the book as tech vs nature but it never actually felt like anyone tried to argue that technology was inherently bad at any point in the book. Maybe the bit about the mill during the scouring of the shire? I seem to remember irrationally intense hate for it, and that they tore it down and emulated the old design, but just chalked it up to general anger at reminders of 'sharkey's' spiteful conquest.
The machinery is mentioned in The Hobbit. Creating machines; not "beautiful things" but "clever ones".
 
What are people's opinions on T.A. Shippey? I'd certainly recommend JRR Tolkien: Author of the Century, serves as a nice little "boo to you" towards those that think LotR isn't literary "canon". Just finishing my 4000 word study (1000 word critical review, 3000 word bibliographic essay) on Tolkien, and it's been a nice ride. I can only hope my enthusiasm towards the source material will get me a few extra marks.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
What are people's opinions on T.A. Shippey? I'd certainly recommend JRR Tolkien: Author of the Century, serves as a nice little "boo to you" towards those that think LotR isn't literary "canon". Just finishing my 4000 word study (1000 word critical review, 3000 word bibliographic essay) on Tolkien, and it's been a nice ride. I can only hope my enthusiasm towards the source material will get me a few extra marks.
One of the most respected Tolkien scholars out there.

I hope your word study impresses your tutor/professor.
 

Loxley

Member
What are people's opinions on T.A. Shippey? I'd certainly recommend JRR Tolkien: Author of the Century, serves as a nice little "boo to you" towards those that think LotR isn't literary "canon". Just finishing my 4000 word study (1000 word critical review, 3000 word bibliographic essay) on Tolkien, and it's been a nice ride. I can only hope my enthusiasm towards the source material will get me a few extra marks.

Your post made me realize that I never actually uploaded the fourth part of my OP, I shall remedy that :)
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Probably my favorite passage in all of Tolkien's books:

So good.

My personal favorite in the LotR is the description of Minas Tirith's gate falling before Grond, and Lord of the Nazgul entering, to be confronted by Gandalf, standing alone. But in a book so trenmendous it's hard to pick just one passage; the one you excerpted is high up there as well. It's long been one of my favorite moments, among all fiction I've read.
 
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